Dickensians! discussion
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Oliver Twist or, The Parish Boys Progress
Oliver Twist - Group Read 5
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Oliver Twist: Intro comments and Chapters 1 - 8
Jean- Thank you for all the wonderful information once again. I thought the mute thing was strange because I hadn't heard of professional mourners being called that. It's interesting because in Biblical times, professional mourners were the opposite. They were "wailing women" complete with instruments. They were anything but mute.I agree with Dickens about the expenses of a funeral, but I can kind of see the benefit to professional mourners for those who are too proud to let their grief out in front of people, or for those who didn't have enough family and friends to attend services.
Bionic Jean wrote: "That's great, JP - good to have you along. You'll find the chapters in Oliver Twist much shorter than those in Dombey and Son, so hopefully won't have any problem with the overlap"Thanks so much, Jean. The short chapters and pace of the group are easy to keep up with, and your chapter summaries and commentary are so insightful!
I'm glad to have been reading Dombey. I'm more caught up in the story and characters than I have been in any other novel in a long time. It must have been torture having to wait for the next chapter when it was serialized.
I love Dickens' wit and slight biting sarcasm in this line in Chapter 1 in describing young Oliver and his chances: "Now, if, during this brief period, Oliver had been surrounded by careful grandmothers, anxious aunts, experienced nurses, and doctors of profound wisdom, he most inevitably and indubitably would have been killed in no time. There being nobody by, however, but a pauper old woman, who was rendered rather misty by an unwonted allowance of beer, and a parish surgeon who did such matters by contract, Oliver and Nature fought out the point between them." Classic Dickens there.
Janelle wrote: "Bury/berry sound the same here in Australia too. (How else is it pronounced? I’ll have to google)"In the States bury has two ways ˈbe-rē, also ˈbər- but when I see a surname I use that second one because in Canada there is Sudbury in Ontario and I have heard that said with the second pronunciation a lot. Since I don't remember hearing about it when I lived in BC I am not sure if we'd have said it Sudberry there, but by now the accent isn't exactly the same due to lots and lots of people moving in and out, including people bringing Eastern Canadian accents in. There is a lot more moving around in BC than in some of the other areas I've lived.
I knew about the custom of mutes at funerals, but am not sure if I first learned about it from Oliver Twist or elsewhere at this point. So many children died back then which must be one of the reasons why they did this, and it helped them make money.Making money from death is not new--it existed then and it still goes on today.
In the States most mortuaries are owned by large companies and they are also out to make money selling bereaved people things they don't need. There are 10 companies, most of them publicly traded, that run most of them and it's a $15 billion dollar industry. They also own cemetaries, etc, and one of these owns things in Canada and other countries as well.
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I'm so pleased Shirley!
"I can't help comparing how he used the characters in Bleak House to point out the injustices of the Chancery Court, rather than the narrator's voice as he did in Oliver Twist."
As Sue said, this is an excellent point. He learned to hone his craft and tone down that author's angry polemic, didn't he?
"I do hope he finds an angel soon" Yay, we're all rooting for Oliver!
Chris - "A far cry from the happy chimney sweeps ... of the Mary Poppins movie!" Oh my word yes. That was a bit later, (I have an image of Glynis Johns singing "Sister Suffragette" in my mind, so it must have been set in the early 20th century) but the sanitised Victorian and Edwardian Britain of the movies never really existed.
"Noah Claypole was abused and now becomes the abuser. How consistent human behavior has been throughout time ..."
Great point Chris!
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Yes, I think we were first aware of this in Britain at the State funeral of (Princess) Diana. Before then the main television funeral had been back in 1965, of Winston Churchill, and then you couldn't hear a pin drop. But fast forward to 1997, and there was definitely some wailing - just odd voices. I assumed this was probably from mourners from the Arab countries. Great point about the extremes Sue - it is odd! English people traditionally are renowned for keeping their feelings to themselves though.
I hadn't thought of those advantages you mention, I must admit, but can't help feeling that Charles Dickens was more aware of unscrupulous undertakers fleecing their clients (as Karin said still also goes on in other countries to this day).
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Thank you JP! I'm delighted you are managing to keep both reads going until the completion of Dombey and Son. It's such a wonderful novel, as we found in our group read, and the first one he planned meticulously. It's good to see where it all came from though, in Oliver Twist. You are a true enthusiast!
Oh yes, all that waiting must have been so frustrating. I'll bet people were gossiping about all the possibilities of what might happen next!
Franky - "I love Dickens' wit and slight biting sarcasm in this line in Chapter 1 ... Classic Dickens there."
Oh yes indeed! Welcome Franky - I'm delighted to have you along again 😊
Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "I haven't read Chapter 5 yet, but I have been keeping up with the schedule you set, Jean. Thank you for your excellent summaries, additional information and illustrations. I'm loving it all.I'm g..."
Shirley, I agree with you about Oliver's tears. What child wouldn't be crying in his situation? I don't think he would have learned to manipulate people with his tears. Except for a few instances, nobody seemed to care too much for how he felt.
Sue wrote: "I can see stylistically how these are written as independent sections, not really chapters. They don’t have the same fluid movement into the next as in later books. I wonder, were the chapter headi..."Hello Sue - In the Penguin edition, under the notes on the text it says "The chapter titles are in capitals (as in Bentley's and later editions), but are in italics here." So I assume the titles were there from the beginning.
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Thanks Katy, for confirming the existence of titles, as were standard in 18th century novels. There will have been some titles as I suggested in my long explanation in post 273 LINK HERE). But not "the" identical titles we now read. That would be impossible unless Penguin are using the manuscript from 1837-8.
They necessarily had to be different (at least in part), and some we now read were new ones, because of all the different editions I referenced during the first few years. Penguin are obviously not being precise here, although it's not as big a gaffe as referencing the "Poor Law" as 10 years earlier than it actually was, as Kathleen noticed 🙄 All reader will assume they mean "The Poor Amendment Act" of 1834 which had so many ramifications - which they probably did. But it's also possible they meant the "Vagrancy Act" (of 1824) instead, as Michael pointed out. It is imprecise and unclear.
Because the beginnings of Oliver Twist are so complicated, editors tend to oversimplify, and thus mislead. It's "the truth, but not the whole truth".
Thanks for that interesting extra snippet about the typeface though! 😊
I don't know if you are familiar with the Italian tradition of the "prefiche".From Italian Wikipedia:
"The "prefiche" (wailers) were women paid to participate in funerals in ancient Rome: during the funeral procession, they preceded the coffin and with their hair loose as a sign of mourning, they sang funeral laments and raised praises to the dead, accompanied by musical instruments, sometimes scratching their faces and pulling out strands of hair.
The use of people mourning the dead was still practiced in recent times in southern Italy and was preserved at least until the 1950s, for example in some towns of Salento (southern part of Puglia) where they are called "chiangimuerti" or "rèpute"; these women would enter the house of the deceased and start screaming desperately.
Reports of the survival of this use are found in even more recent times in Calabria, where until the 1980s, in some mountain villages, it was possible to witness such agonizing scenes, and in Basilicata.
In Sardinia, especially in some inland areas, women (not necessarily relatives but often from the family circle) were dedicated to the so-called rite called "atìtu" or "atìtidu" in the Sardinian language.
Even in Northern Italy, until after the Second World War, children were used in funerals - especially orphans welcomed into religious institutions, for a fee for the institution to which they belonged: the orphans were placed to walk, and possibly cry, immediately behind the coffin."
Not exactly like mutes but the last part has made me think of Oliver.
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And of course Charles Dickens was to see all these traditions for himself, years later, as we learned during our read of his Pictures from Italy.
I am glad I skipped a day before posting. Much of what I would have said would have anticipated your comments on Chapter five, and while I like that our thoughts are in synch, I would prefer you to voice them first. On Dickens skill with details. The bits of creepy gothic description mixed with a little humor are brilliant IMO, and notice how Dickens incorporates such detains nonchalantly, almost in a throwaway manner, where a lesser author would make the detail the focus of a paragraph or a page buildup. I wanted to pump my fist in the air after seeing how deftly Dickens introduced the coffin-shaped snuffbox,( and just as quickly moved back into the story) in chapter four. The children jumping over the coffin was another example from chapter five.
On the lonely unloved little Oliver. I am fully caught up in how Dickens is slowly introducing and developing Oliver in this story. Earlier Jean had mentioned the allegorical goodness or innocence, but that full sense is yet to come. The overwhelming sense I get of Oliver through the first three chapters is near mute vulnerability. He is the runt of the litter, small fearful, mewing, and defenseless. I find myself wondering what the readers at the time were thinking when there was no Oliver mystique and this was completely new. This is not the type of which heroes are made,
But we are getting slightly more exposure to Oliver in chapter four and five with just the hint of development. Again, I am seeing this approach to characterization a master stroke. It is like we're getting not only the live birth and the growth of Oliver, but from a critical view, we are watching the birth and growth of a character. We get a couple more words and some thoughts and he occupies more of the action, but still he is quite an unknown. And I will stop there for now and see how Oliver continues to develop.
I want to mention the other characters as a whole since all are pretty much seen in contrast, comparison, or relation to Oliver. They all seem to represent the perceptions and feelings of a lad of Oliver's age and situation, despite being described by the adult narrator. They personify various shades of indifference and threat, from neglect to physical bullying and while the narrator is adding adult commentary the feelings toward these characters are very much that which Oliver would feel. I am describing this poorly but having had the benefit of growing up somewhat neglected as a child, I can recall similar feelings from my own childhood when reading this. This is one reason why I think Dickens portraying them as types fits so well. The threatened child sees the world at such an age in types and the combined picture of these characters actually gives us the "character," of the world as seen by Oliver. It will be interesting to see how the character of the world changes as Oliver grows.
My last thought is that I see a lot of unity and cohesion in these five chapters compared to the more episodic Pickwick Papers. I hope it continues.
Thanks for the further updates Katy and Jean. My edition appears to have no notes of any kind so the details I pick up here are great.
Sam, I really like your thought about abused, neglected children seeing the people around them as archetypes, and therefore Dickens is giving his audience the world as Oliver sees it. I think that’s very true.Since chapter 5 was all about the undertaker business, it made me remember kind Mr. Orem, the undertaker from David Copperfield. He’s such a minor character, but so well written that he sticks in my memory. Dickens may never have warmed to funerals, but if Mr. Orem is an indication, he grew to like undertakers a bit more.
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You're welcome Sue and Katy 😊 I apologise to everyone if this has got a bit too bogged down in detail though!
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Sam - You have some excellent insights here. And I am glad we are in synch, as it means that what you say will be even more interesting! We'll all find probably, that even with just one chapter a day, there is still not time to express all our thoughts.
"Dickens incorporates such detains nonchalantly" - oh yes! And doesn't this show the liveliness of his mind, and the richness of his writing. Great examples.
"I am fully caught up in how Dickens is slowly introducing and developing Oliver in this story."
I agree. Many critics say that you cannot look for character development in Oliver Twist, but it's certainly there, borne out by your saying that you can identify with the lost, lonely little boy. 😥 You are right that the "full sense [of the allegorical nature of Oliver is yet to come." Perhaps I should have mentioned this later ... I am probably too aware of modern cynical readers who do not see [author:Charles Dickens|239579] as an author of his time, nor accept his melodramatic style, and question that Oliver dissolves into tears etc., accepts everything older people say implicitly (but just wait for today's chapter!) and so on. I should have trusted the instincts of "Dickensians" not to be knowing and sarcastic about its psychological authenticity, as 21st century readers sometimes are 🙄
"The overwhelming sense I get of Oliver through the first three chapters is near mute vulnerability."
Yes! And what skill to be able to perform this dual task. For me, because we know that Charles Dickens did not yet know that this would be a novel, this must mean that he sensed Oliver as a real little boy in his mind, right from the start. Thank you for amplifying on this.
"I see a lot of unity and cohesion in these five chapters compared to the more episodic Pickwick Papers." Absolutely! I never know why The Pickwick Papers is (are!) classed as a novel because to me the work is a series of linked short stories with a continuing frame.
And despite its hit and miss beginnings, Oliver Twist is the first work by Charles Dickens we can say we truly recognise as a novel. We have such a great thrilling story and characters coming up (as you of course know!) Thank Sam!
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Perhaps this is yet another indication of Charles Dickens's youth? A young man might be likely to castigate another for his job, and associate him with it, but later he could separate the two, and acknowledge that not all undertakers were bad. Even Mr. Sowerbury seems to be kind, sometimes.
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After a month, Oliver’s probationary period is at an end. The town is experiencing “a nice sickly season” with a measles epidemic, so Mr. Sowerberry has a lot of undertaking work. Oliver learns the trade quickly and so is promoted to being a mute. Noah Claypole treats him badly, and because of this so does Charlotte. And because Mr. Sowerberry likes Oliver, Mrs. Sowerberry does not.
One day when Mr. Sowerberry is out, Noah goads Oliver viciously about the younger boy’s mother. Finally the older boy says that it’s best “that she died when she did, or else she’d have been hard labouring [in prison], or transported, or hung; which is more likely than either, isn’t it?” Finally provoked beyond control, Oliver flies into a temper and knocks the charity boy down, even though Noah is much the larger boy:
"Oliver plucks up a spirit" - George Cruikshank 1838
"Oliver Aroused" - Harry Furniss 1910
"Oliver rather astonishes Noah" - James Mahoney 1871
Charlotte cries out, drawing Mrs. Sowerberry to the kitchen. The two women beat Oliver and lock him in the cellar and send Noah to fetch Mr. Bumble:
"Noah running for Mr. Bumble" Frederic W. Pailthorpe 1886
This is the end of the third installment. We now have a day free, before we begin the fourth installment, with chapter 7.
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What on earth can lie in store for Oliver now? Presumably the Sowerberrys will not want him there any more after this, so he might be taken back to the workhouse, but the thrashings would surely be worse than ever and he might not survive. Perhaps the comment by the workhouse parish council member in the white waistcoat, predicting that Oliver’s fate was to be hanged, might be close to the truth. What a coincidence that the gentleman in the white waistcoat walks past and notices the distraught Noah, who now paints a picture of Oliver as a bloodthirsty murderer.
In fact have you noticed the in-jokes about Oliver Twist’s name? His surname “twist” was used in Victorian slang, so that “twisted” meant “hanged”: twisting as one swings on the rope. So this is Charles Dickens again asking us if we think Oliver is destined to be hanged.
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But Charles Dickens was a great meat-eater, as evidenced by Catherine's recipe book, Dinner for Dickens. the Culinary History of Mrs Charles Dickens's Menu Books Including a Transcript of What Shall We Have for Dinner?' by Lady Maria Clutterbuck, so in Charles Dickens's mind, perhaps this is what strengthened Oliver after all, increasing his spirit so that he fought for his rights, just as Mr. Bumble had feared the inmates might, if they were fed properly.
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We saw at the beginning that Oliver’s mother also showed tenacity and strength, in making sure that she could give birth to her baby in a sheltered place. But Mr. Bumble holds this against her. When he is talking to Mr. Sowerberry about punishing Oliver, he says to leave him in the cellar for a day or so, “till he’s a little starved down” and that Oliver came of bad stock, because his mother made her way there, “against difficulties and pain that would have killed any well-disposed woman, weeks before.”
Poor people seem to get it wrong, whatever they do.
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Another option, as we’ve often discussed involved being “transported,” or sent to a penal colony in Australia, to which England condemned thousands of prisoners. The third option was the most drastic: death by hanging, usually at a public execution. Charles Dickens attended one of the last of these, and was so appalled that he wrote a letter to “The Times” newspaper about it.
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“It was a cold, dark night. The stars seemed, to the boy’s eyes, farther from the earth than he had ever seen them before; there was no wind; and the sombre shadows thrown by the trees upon the ground, looked sepulchral and death-like, from being so still.”
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I mentioned how most illustrators concentrated on one specific dramatic scene when illustrating Charles Dickens’s novels. Here we see that 2 later illustrators of Charles Dickens’s works, also chose to use the same scene as George Cruikshank. However Frederic W. Pailthorpe chose instead to do an “end picture” for the chapter as published as a novel. Your edition may end at a different point of course.Frederic W. Pailthorpe
And (I have learnt a new word today!) was in his grangerising phase. This means that he was illustrating by later insertion of material. Because he had access to the entire novel, which George Cruikshank did not, he could include details which will only be mentioned later. He did this without spoilers, but they can sometimes function as clues to later events. In this case there is a phrase very near the end of the novel which is borne out by this illustration (I’ll remind you when we get there—it’s virtually impossible to deduce it except by a close analysis of the text.)
Also Harry Furniss's illustration from 1910 was positioned half-way through Chapter 5, although it describes an incident in Chapter 6. This is probably because of the confusion with the different editions I mentioned.
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About Charles Dickens’s work patterns
Petra was asking about this, and interestingly, Charles Dickens himself had not decided in detail how the story should go! He was writing so many things at this time that he wrote “on the hoof”. It’s fairly amazing that it all falls into place eventually, as a completed novel which we can still read and enjoy now. When he began, he still had 12 installments of The Pickwick Papers to write, the second series of Sketches by Boz was unfinished, he was preparing a comic opera The Village Coquettes: An Operatic Burletta In Two Acts ready for later in the year—and he was under contract to produce a 3 volume novel for John Macrone and 2 more for Richard Bentley. And all at the age of 25!
Charles Dickens told John Forster that he had developed a routine of spending the first two weeks of each month on Oliver Twist and his other projects, and the second on The Pickwick Papers.
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For those who want the real nitty-gritty of how Charles Dickens organised his day, here is part of John Forster’s biography, The Life of Charles Dickens: The Illustrated Edition, (which is an ongoing group side read). It is about the installment for April 1838, and I promise that there are no spoilers here! I’ve just put it under a spoiler tag to save space 😊:
(view spoiler)
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Jean, you mention the man in the white waistcoat, that’s in the beginning of chapter 7 in my edition. Are there differences?And so is Mr bumble and the discussion of punishments also in Chap7
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Don't worry though, we can all stay together by looking at the basic events I put in the summaries 😊
I’m sorry Jean, it’s late at night here so it’s not making much sense at the moment. I’ll compare my paperback with the eBook I’m reading tomorrow.
Janelle, in my edition too (Wordsworth Classics): Noah running to fetch Mr Bumble, holding a knife to his black eye.Jean, great background info!
I like Oliver's vitality and energy from his very first minutes up to now in such a difficult world. The opening chapter foreshadowed how strong Oliver is in spite of adversity.
If I may go back to Mr. Bumble. Influenced by the illustrations, I am fascinated by his dress. He looks like he is living in 1795 not 1837 with the bicorn hat, belt buckle shoes, and breeches. It does seem to add to his inflated ego walking around the parish like that. A future example of Dickens using dress to add emphasis to the personality of a character is Mr. Tulkinghorn from "Bleak House". He dresses severely in black wearing long out of fashion breeches and stockings.
Perhaps as a perverted example of how hierarchical and status obsessed the English were, we have Claypole immediately asserting his superiority over Oliver based on him being a charity boy as opposed to Oliver coming from the workhouse.
What interesting comparisons of how Charlotte is portrayed in the three illustrations Ms. Bionic posted. We go from Cruikshank's appearing to make Charlotte older, definitely not a "girl", around the same age as Mrs. Sowerberry to Mahoney's rather flattering Charlotte.
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What a great observation Michael. We noticed Mr. Tulkinghorn's outmoded style of dress at the time of our group read of Bleak House, and it does look as if this is a prototype for the cannier lawyer. (And how appropriate that our sartorial expert on Victorian attire should notice it 😀)
I like your comparison of Charlotte in the illustrations too! Interestingly, in the most famous film of Oliver Twist, in 1948, Charlotte was played by Diana Dors in an early role. Diana Dors was Great Britain's answer to Marilyn Monroe. She was a glamour star, but was cast in increasingly blousy roles.
Claudia - Indeed there was quite a lot of foreshadowing in that first chapter, which shows that Charles Dickens did have some ideas about how this would go, right from the start.
Janelle - There's absolutely nothing to apologise for! 😊
This is just a quick check-in to say that I am in on this read, and am on track with the schedule. The discussion so far has been so lively that I am not present to anything to add!Jean, as always the additional detail you bring to the book discussion is wonderful!
I will offer that the single thing I am enjoying most is the narrative voice as a character in the book. The sarcasm crackles off the page, and I so appreciate it.
I am already finding myself recommending the book to others!
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I will offer that I the single thing I am enjoying most is the narrative voice as a character in the book. The sarcasm crackles off the page, and I so appreciate it.
I am already finding myself recommending the book to others!..."
Thank you! I'm so happy you checked in Jennifer, and to hear that you are enjoying the read. And recommending it to others is wonderful! I think this is probably the most sarcastic of all his novels - but what a heart Charles Dickens shows he has here too 🤗 No wonder his public loved him!
I am also finally caught up as I am on vacation this week visiting family and trying to stay up with the read. I have been fascinated with the background info, especially about mutes, so thank you for that Jean.I have been wondering when Oliver was going to decide enough is enough! I was excited to see him stand up for his mother and thus for himself against Noah today. I especially loved the Furniss illustration as it’s shows Oliver in action with his fists. I am hoping this will be a turning point for him and we will see a different side of our orphan begin to grow.
Bionic Jean wrote: "We talked yesterday about how food is a continuing motif, and it’s possible here that the meat is symbolic. In chapter 4, Charles Dickens described the meat as “victuals” which come..."This is interesting, but note that not all Indians are vegetarians :) In fact more than half of Hindus eat meat at least sometimes; it's a myth that they are all vegetarian. Right now, 81 percent of people in India limit meat but only 39 percent are vegetarian, but it has never been a one religion country. Sikhs eat all kind of meat as do Christians there; Muslims only eat some types of meat and poultry. Also included in meat eaters are the Parsi and some of the Buddhists et al.
Sorry, I've just been spouting information and not much about Dicken's actual writing or anything literary! But by the time I come here so much of that has already been said that I'm not sure what I can add on that sort of thing :)
Bionic Jean wrote: "There were a couple of points which I thought foretold events in Charles Dickens's later novels. The first was the idea of sending Oliver to sea, in the hope that this would be the ..."Want & Ignorance. A perfect comparison!
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It's OK Karin. You weren't to know that for the greater part of my career I was mostly working with children from the Indian subcontinent (many of whom are still my friends) ... I was just quoting a common myth from the time, which seemed to continue for quite a while after Charles Dickens's own assumption. I think his readers would have loved (view spoiler) in the next chapter, as much as we do! But as you say, a wider topic is not directly relevant, and since I'm vegetarian probably more interesting to me than anyone else! Thanks for the modern stats. And I apologise everyone, for diverting us a bit!
By the way Karin, I'm sure that - despite what you say - you do have interesting things to add 😊 I'm finding everyone's comments bring new insights. But we have 78 people in this read now, so please don't feel you have to comment every day if you are stuck!
Jim wrote: "In these first 4 chapters of Oliver Twist, what I find most striking is that here we find Dickens as a man full of the vigor and impatience of youth."I can't imagine the first readers of The Pickwick Papers would have found his later, more serious works like Bleak House appealing. We have the benefit of hindsight, in that having his entire panoply of works before us, we can go back and forth in any order we choose.
I cannot help wondering whether his readership matured along with him over that almost quarter century, as he became less focused on entertaining and provoking his audience and seemingly more inclined toward substance and depth. This is a marvelous speculation and I would love to know the answer! But seriously, to imagine his popular readers in the beginning who so loved his comedy, to be following along by the time he reached his last novels is hard to conceive.
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We read in John Forster's book that Charles Dickens was very aware of sales, and all was well if they rose, but if fewer issues sold that month, he changed something e.g. killed off a character.
Also, after the massive middle novels, his public wanted something a little less complex, but still with a great story, and he gave them Great Expectations. Once he had started a project, he was then very responsive to his readers.
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I wonder when we will get an ogre, or a fairy godmother!
Yes Jean, it sounds like a fairy tale at times, just as does Les Misérables when Jean Valjean comes to fetch (poor mistreated) Cosette at Thénardiers, buy her the doll she so much admired, because she had no doll, and walks with her (and her doll Catherine) from Montfermeil to Paris through the woods of Bondy. In both novels there are ingredients of a good fairy tale: changing emotions, dramatic events, and above all, hope!
In both cases and more generally in the 19th century, it was about telling a story with all the ingredients for keeping the reader's attention alert between two installments.
We definitely are alert and looking forward to seeing Oliver overcome all these terrible circumstances!
I never knew that about Gandhi Jean! And now I'm thinking about starting Nicholas Nickleby, to get the experience original readers had :)
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Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Oliver Twist (other topics)Oliver Twist (other topics)
David Copperfield (other topics)
The Victorian City: Everyday Life in Dickens' London (other topics)
Our Mutual Friend (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Charles Dickens (other topics)John Forster (other topics)
Judith Flanders (other topics)
George Eliot (other topics)
Harry Furniss (other topics)
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Noah Claypole was abused and now becomes the abuser. How consistent human behavior has been throughout time. Sad.
I didn't know about the use of mutes at funerals. Thanks Jean for the lesson on the funeral customs.