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[2023] Poll 17 Voting
Jette wrote: "1 upvote, 7 down…I think it’s because I’m in need of comfort reading right now. I don’t want to be educated on a topic or consider diverse points of view…I just need to disappear in the pages of ..."
Sorry to hear you are having a sad time
I agree with Katie on the culture prompt. I like the idea of it but the wording of this one doesn't make sense to me. If there is another poll I would happily vote for it if it was 'culture different from your own' or similar.
Pam wrote: "I was 95% done with a post I was writing Re: the Revolution prompt when I heard hot air balloons going over my house! I live close to the Balloon Park (where the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta is going..."That's cool! My son and husband drove from northern Colorado to Flagstaff last week with the marching band, by way of Albuquerque, and they said there were tons of balloons in the sky. We have a lot of balloonists around here but I live too close to the foothills so they never come this far west. But Saturday mornings during the summer if I have to go east I love to see them.
Back on topic! I'm going 6 up and 2 down. The two I don't like are either too vague/unclear or just something I really don't want.
10. A book related to first contact was my only up vote. I thought about up voting a few others but the discussion has not helped me like the ones I down voted any more and made me want to down vote them more. (The message that we need to just be positive is draining too. If we were just suppose to like everything then we should get rid of down voting. I don't understand up voting everything. Aren't there prompts that are your favorite? I'd rather my favorites be voted in than everything).
Edie wrote: "I wish some of those who post would focus more of the pluses of prompts they might like and less on what is wrong with prompts they don't like."When people nominate prompts and they just "fail" without comment, they don't know exactly what the prompt missed from the community's norms/desires/expectations. The feedback from the downvotes does that. I think people feel, whether consciously or subconsciously, like they owe an explanation for downvotes so the proposer knows the feedback. Some people also feel "guilty" for downvoting a prompt so use it, again, whether consciously or subconsciously, as a way of justifying it so they feel less guilty.
Jillian wrote: "10. A book related to first contact was my only up vote. I thought about up voting a few others but the discussion has not helped me like the ones I down voted any more and made me want to down vot..."I wasn't suggesting that there shouldn't be down voting... or that I don't often down vote prompts. This time there were a number of prompts I loved and voted for previously... and several interesting additions.
I do have favorites and would love it if the voting allowed for using our 8 votes to vote multiple times for a prompt we liked (or disliked). Some survey software allows for that and it lets people nuance their votes more. That said, I doubt that the program we use allows for that.
Jette wrote: "1 upvote, 7 down…I think it’s because I’m in need of comfort reading right now. I don’t want to be educated on a topic or consider diverse points of view…I just need to disappear in the pages of ..."
@Jette — so sorry you are having a rough week. I hope you have a readily accessible book to bring you some comfort. Take care
I've upvoted 8, and felt like there were a few more I would have upvoted. I actually would not be unhappy with any of the prompts this week, even if I do have my favorites.Having just finished
The Overstory by Richard Powers, I'm really interested in reading a nonfiction book on a similar topic — either Finding the Mother Tree: Discovering the Wisdom of the Forest by Suzanne Simard or The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They Communicate: Discoveries from a Secret World by Peter Wohlleben. All of this is to say, I really hope that "A book about the environment or nature" makes it in.Another I like, and mention specifically because of the possible confusion, is "A culture book that depicts a place or time and its culture". The wording may be a bit awkward — but I've found that being succinct and also clear in a prompt is really difficult sometimes. Also, I can see where some might say that it is just another diversity prompt, but I think it is more nuanced than that. I feel that @NancyJ did a good job elaborating outside the confines of the actual prompt though. I think that "diversity" prompts are more about reading from more varied authors, or about more varied people/places. But I think "culture" is more about the book studying, in-depth, what makes others different from ourselves — not just that they ARE different.
Mod
I'm all for voicing opinions (clearly! I wouldn't mod this group if I didn't think there was beauty in the discussion!) but I find that the conversation gets draining when it's nothing but general negativity about the polls and the process rather than focusing on how we can improve the prompts in front of us.
I'm certainly not here to tone police, just voicing my personal opinion at the moment after a long day. And, again, this is always the trend as we move through the voting process, and the negativity generally clears up as soon as voting is over (which could be why I'm hoping this is the final poll). I'm just more fatigued by it this year than in previous years (probably because I feel a million months pregnant and I'm just fatigued by life at the moment lol)
For the cultural prompt, I just want to say that I read plenty of books that I would NOT describe as being primarily about culture, so I don't think it's as open a prompt as some others are suggesting it is. Of course all books are set somewhere, but plenty of books are much more focused on plot or character or relationships and not necessarily on a distinct culture that the narrator is a part of.For example, Dark Matter is set in Chicago, but nothing about it is related to Chicago culture or the cultural background of the protagonist. Hamnet is set in a very particular place and time, but the book is so insular and about family relationships that I wouldn't describe it as being about Elizabethan-era England. Anxious People is set in Sweden and written by a Swedish author, but (in my opinion) it's written in a way that seems to purposefully imply that the people could be from anywhere.
Whereas Beartown, by the same author, is absolutely about the culture of the town and hockey team. Other kinds of science fiction books, unlike Dark Matter, explore culture very purposefully, often by setting an alien or future culture against ours - Ursula Le Guin's books really come to mind here, or Becky Chambers. In some stories, the relationship of the protagonist to their cultural background is deeply important - for example, I'm reading Crying in H Mart, which is not just a book about the author's grief and relationship with her mother, but also about her relationship with Korean culture.
The idea is appealing to me because I really enjoy books that purposefully explore culture in this way, rather than simply using it as scenery for the plot. If it gets in, we'll have a lovely listopia full of recommendations I might like!
Hannah wrote: "For the cultural prompt, I just want to say that I read plenty of books that I would NOT describe as being primarily about culture, so I don't think it's as open a prompt as some others are suggest..."Wow I agree with you about all those books. (Though I might give Hamnet more points for showing life during the plague. The separation of families reminds me of Covid.) I felt exactly the same way as you about Backman’s books. I didn’t like Anxious People nearly as much because of this. I just finished Us Against You, and It could be a master class in how to write about culture without using any academic terminology. I didn’t discover Ursula le Guin until last year, and I was impressed by her deep knowledge of psychology and human nature. She doesn’t use academic terms at all, but if someone reads one of her books while taking a course, they might recognize the ideas. Becky Chambers and Octavia Butler too.
There is a large section of science fiction that focuses on culture and people issues. (I knew I was forgetting something earlier. This is it.)
I did end up going all downvotes, though I even surprised myself by the ones I didn't downvote.. obviously I had to change my mind on some prompts since I was facing a majority of prompts I didn't want. But i thought all downvotes would hopefully give the best shot of not ending up with the prompts I really don't want.
I have a question for science fiction readers. I read last year that there is a large section of science fiction books/authors that focus on culture and people issues. I saw terms like social sci-fi, and cultural sci-fi, and maybe others. The female sci fi authors mentioned above include these issues. What do you call it, and what other books do you think fit?
It's probably archaic, but I've heard it called soft SF - in comparison to hard SF, which is spaceships and technology. Ray Bradbury, Ursula K. LeGuin, Frank Herbert are classic soft SF writers.
Tracy wrote: "I've upvoted 8, and felt like there were a few more I would have upvoted. I actually would not be unhappy with any of the prompts this week, even if I do have my favorites.Having just finished [b..."
Thanks Tracy! This was my big year for trees too. I’m not Nancy Nature by any means. (Just ask my husband.) But I really became fascinated by all the tree books and the information on eco-systems and the importance of bio diversity. This was a great reading year for me with some big themes. I’m floundering trying to find my themes for next year. Sixth extinction changed my mind too.
The Hidden Life of Trees is great! I just finished True Biz, and it is a great example of about a culture - deaf culture. I wasn’t going to vote for that prompt, but Hannah’s great examples and counter examples sold it too me, in spite of the vague wording.
I voted 7 up, 1 down and I'm already wishing there was a way to go back and change my votes. That would be a change I'd love to see though it could get messy for the group moderators. I'm happy with everything. I really want this to be the last poll though. One prompt polls are not my favorite type of polls.
@NancyJ just wait till you finish the Beartown series. It’s probably the best series I’ve ever read, where each book is equally fantastic if not better. The other contender would be GRRM but since he’ll never finish them he loses points. Most series have a filler book or should only be one book. But this series is just perfection.
Emily wrote: "There's a pretty big difference between critiquing a prompt you don't like (too broad, wish it was more concise, etc.) and saying that you don't like anything on the poll and and you hate repeats a..."Thanks Emily... for the comment and for all you do for the group.
Tracy wrote: "I've upvoted 8, and felt like there were a few more I would have upvoted. I actually would not be unhappy with any of the prompts this week, even if I do have my favorites.Having just finished [b..."
I loved The Overstory...
NancyJ wrote: "I have a question for science fiction readers. I read last year that there is a large section of science fiction books/authors that focus on culture and people issues. I saw terms like social sci-..."It's called anthropological science fiction (though I agree that "soft science fiction" heavily overlaps with this concept) and it's possibly my top favorite subgenre.
Books that I've read that fit:
The Left Hand of Darkness, The Dispossessed, and The Word for World Is Forest by Ursula Le Guin
The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell
Hellspark by Janet Kagan
Some of the stories in Exhalation and Stories of Your Life and Others by Ted Chiang
Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky
Remnant Population by Elizabeth Moon
Dawn by Octavia Butler
Embassytown by China Miéville
We by Yevgeny Zamyatin
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
And many (but not all) of those are First Contact stories, too! Science fiction about encountering aliens for the first time is very often focused on culture and cultural difference.
NancyJ wrote: "I have a question for science fiction readers. I read last year that there is a large section of science fiction books/authors that focus on culture and people issues. I saw terms like social sci-..."I don't think there is one term for it, because I think the majority of science fiction is about culture and people issues in one way or another. There are some subgenres, like the aforementioned anthropological science fiction, also feminist sci fi, but a lot of classic sci-fi is about culture clashes and manipulation. Asimov's Foundation series is about a guy who manages to predict 50,000 years of human history and tries to shape it to avoid certain dark ages, but Foundation is just called "classic" sci fi. No one would call it "soft" sci fi (because, ya know, it's written by a man and all that ...). And there are all those stories about human civilization interacting with alien civ - I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but it's a popular topic, and I don't know the subgenre for this: books like Mieville's Perdido Street Station & Embassytown, Brin's Uplift series, a lot of Tepper's books, Leckie's sci-fi, Butler's Xenogenesis, Liu's The Three Body Problem, Moon's Remnant Population, Scalzi's Old Man's War, and on and on.
Emily wrote: " I'm just more fatigued by it this year than in previous years (probably because I feel a million months pregnant and I'm just fatigued by life at the moment lol)"I wish you the best with the pregnancy and birth! You are a real trooper for doing this at all, but especially while pregnant! ;) No way I could have managed all that!
THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO!
Lynn wrote: "Emily wrote: " I'm just more fatigued by it this year than in previous years (probably because I feel a million months pregnant and I'm just fatigued by life at the moment lol)"I wish you the best..."
Agree! Thank you. Hopefully this made the time go faster for you.
Emily wrote: "There's a pretty big difference between critiquing a prompt you don't like (too broad, wish it was more concise, etc.) and saying that you don't like anything on the poll and and you hate repeats a..."I completely agree with this comment, but also I just want to say thank you for being an awesome mod and sticking with us through your pregnancy!
Could someone give me some ideas for a book from a villain's perspective?You made me sick to my stomach as did The Collector because in general, I have difficulty reading books where I don't relate to or agree with the protagonist's thoughts and actions. I have been able to enjoy mysteries and thrillers where we find out the narrator was the villain as a plot twist such as (view spoiler). And I guess Heartless would count as being from a villain's perspective too even though she's a good person in the book (not yet a villain).
Does anyone have recommendations for a book where the villain is either likable/relatable (like Heartless) or where we have no idea that they're the villain (like the examples I listed above)?
There were lots of listopias and other links posted about villains yesterday. Just go back a page and you should find it.
Hannah wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "I have a question for science fiction readers. I read last year that there is a large section of science fiction books/authors that focus on culture and people issues. I saw terms li..."I think you could probably class Dune there as well, as there is the interaction of the MCs with the Fremen.
Dubhease wrote: "There were lots of listopias and other links posted about villains yesterday. Just go back a page and you should find it."Hi @Dubhease, yes, but the Listopias don't tell me if the villains are likable or not (my main concern) so I was hoping someone could share if they've read a book from a villain's perspective where the villain was genuinely likable or relatable.
(Also, the Listopias seem to have a lot of errors, such as Rhapsodic, where the main characters definitely aren't villains, and Circe, who I consider the heroine rather than the villain of the book). I saw more lists with books with antiheroes and villains but only are handful are from the villain's point of view. I don't really consider antiheroes the villains of their story.
Irene wrote: "Could someone give me some ideas for a book from a villain's perspective?..."Since you mentioned Heartless, I would say you're probably safe going with a retelling from the villain's perspective, since they are generally shown to be more sympathetic than the originals.
Malice, Forest of a Thousand Lanterns, etc.
Stone Blind: Medusa's Story has a lot about who gets to decide who the monsters are. Medusa is not villainous at all in the story but most people know her as a monster who a hero (Perseus the wet blanket) defeated. This might be the same category as Circe, as in it doesn't fit for you though.
The Book of Gothel is another about a supposed villain who is really nothing of the sort.
The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes was a surprisingly thoughtful book about the villain of The Hunger Games.
Nimona is about a super villain and his sidekick but it super cute.
Not sure if any of these work for you, but I'd probably go down this route myself if it gets in.
Thanks so much Ellie!! All of those suggestions look great, especially the last 3. Will add to my TBR whether or not the villain prompt gets through :)
Oh, interesting point about two potential ways to interpret the villain prompt - I feel like it would be fair game to either choose a book in which the main character is the villain of the story (i.e. actively doing bad things, the person you're rooting against) OR a retelling of another story from the supposed "villain's" perspective, à la Wicked.
Ellie wrote: "Nimona is about a super villain and his sidekick but it super cute."Seconding this one. Nimona is SUCH a lovely little book!! A perfect quick, easy read for the villain prompt if needed (it's a graphic novel).
I think Circe counts if you think of it as a retelling or spin off of the Odyssey - she is for sure a villain in that story. I liked Lost Boy: The True Story of Captain Hook, which is similar - retells Peter Pan from another perspective, and the villain becomes the protagonist.
Ooh this made me think of “All the Ever Afters: The Untold Story of Cinderella’s Stepmother”, which was a fun book. This moved to a definite upvote. I’ll read a retelling from the villains perspective.
In the Lunar Chronicles, Fairest is from Queen Levana's perspective. But I think you'd need to read the other books to really appreciate it.
Mod
Jette, I'm sorry you have had a rough week. I have a possibility for all the prompts this round, but I'm with you of the diversity point. I'm kind of diversity-ed out when it comes to books. In the past, I've handled diversity, BIPOC , etc. with a BIO approach.I think most avid readers are compelled to read, and in doing so, we already read fairly diversely. Having stated that, thanks to whoever added the Native American/Indigenous/Indian link during the last round of voting. I've always had an interest in Native America/ Indigenous/Indian culture, so I have a few books in mind that will fit nicely if the prompt is elected.
Chrissy wrote: "The Hidden Life of Trees is great! I just finished True Biz, and it is a great example of about a culture - deaf culture. I wasn’t going to vote for that prompt, but Hannah’s grea..."
The Hidden Life of Trees is on my 2023 list. I'm looking forward to this one. I've read some great comments about it.
Chrissy wrote: "I think Circe counts if you think of it as a retelling or spin off of the Odyssey - she is for sure a villain in that story. I liked [book:Lost Boy: The True Story of Captain Hook|3..."I nominated the villain prompt, so naturally I like the prompt. I read Hook's Tale and loved it, but I think Circe would work as well. I loved Circe when I read it a few years ago.
Hannah wrote: "Oh, interesting point about two potential ways to interpret the villain prompt - I feel like it would be fair game to either choose a book in which the main character is the villain of the story (i..."I nominated the villain's perspective prompt, and I think either interpretation is fine. Either interpretation fits the spirit of the prompt. That's the main thing!
Ellie wrote: "Irene wrote: "Could someone give me some ideas for a book from a villain's perspective?..."Since you mentioned Heartless, I would say you're probably safe going with a retelling from the villain'..."
These all sound great!
My first impulse was not to upvote the "not completely horizontal text" prompt, because I assumed it would be too easy, but then I actually took a look at my TBR and noticed how incredibly common it is for covers to have very horizontal text, even when the font is a script looking one! I decided to upvote it after all, I think it makes for a fun scavenger hunt.
I recommend both "The Life of Trees" and "Finding the Mother Tree" . May I suggest reading "Finding the Mother Tree" first as the research is referenced in "Life of Trees"
Alicia wrote: "There’s still hope for another poll! I don’t think I voted either way on the repeated prompts, but that’s how I generally feel about this whole list. I’m very neutral. I’ll see how others respond..."
That's a great attitude. You want to see what's good for the whole group.
Pam wrote: "I was 95% done with a post I was writing Re: the Revolution prompt when I heard hot air balloons going over my house! I live close to the Balloon Park (where the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta is going..."You're lucky to live near there.
Revolutions is a great topic. Drama, bravery, history, high stakes. That's my kind of escape.
On the culture prompt, which is upvoted, I have a few ideas for books focus on Native American/Indigenous/Indian...in case the diversity award prompt doesn't make it. They will fit in both.
Martha wrote: "Right now I'm reading Shrines of Gaiety by Kate Atkinson. It would be perfect for the villain POV prompt."Thanks for the reminder. I read Life After Life in February, and I think she's a great author.
Around the Year in 52 Books
Books mentioned in this topic
The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry (other topics)The Thursday Murder Club (other topics)
The Handler (other topics)
Vengeance Road (other topics)
American Royals (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Gregory Maguire (other topics)Richard Powers (other topics)
Suzanne Simard (other topics)
Peter Wohlleben (other topics)
Lily King (other topics)
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I think it’s because I’m in need of comfort reading right now. I don’t want to be educated on a topic or consider diverse points of view…I just need to disappear in the pages of a book that doesn’t bring up sad topics. It’s been a rough, sad week.