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[2023] Poll 17 Voting
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MJ
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Oct 05, 2022 06:39PM
There are 11 prompts on this one that I’d upvote if I could! I’m rarely in a position where I like so many of them.
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There’s still hope for another poll! I don’t think I voted either way on the repeated prompts, but that’s how I generally feel about this whole list. I’m very neutral. I’ll see how others respond and what they want in the challenge to help influence my votes.
MJ wrote: "The first thing that came to my mind with “first contact” was first meeting of Europeans with Indigenous people on the various continents ships landed on. This is probably what I’ll go for if that ..."That’s how I feel too. Science is not just one thing. First contact is a versatile prompt. It can involve involve different cultures, indigenous groups, as well as science fiction stories involving aliens. It might even stretch to fit some romance books.
Hi @NancyJ, would you mind explaining "A cultural book that depicts a place or time and its culture" a little bit more? I'm a bit confused by the "depicts a place or time" part, because surely every (fictional) book has a place and time, unless I'm misunderstanding it.Also, the two Listopias are just books with non-white main characters so I'm wondering if the word "cultural" is being used here as a more politically correct version of the way people use the word "ethnic" these days?
Could you give me some examples of fictional books that do not contain culture/wouldn't count towards this prompt?
Do books about people of color automatically count as "cultural" regardless of what kind of lifestyle they live?
Thanks in advance, I think I might be more confused because back in college, I took a few different classes about culture and the main point was that everyone has a culture whether you find it "exotic" or not. I'll probably vote for this prompt either way, but just wanted to ask what the intended meaning of this prompt is.
Thank you Nadine and MJ for helping me suggest my prompt! I don't mind if a prompt is new or a repeat because as long as I like it, I'll vote for it. I really liked the close calls poll we had before because it had a lot of prompts I had voted for before, and there are a lot in this poll that I'm definitely going to upvote ( non-horizontal cover design, top 23 goodreads, genre that starts with letter in name, and more).
As of right now, I'm planning to upvote:A book with the theme of returning home
A book related to first contact
A book told from the villain’s perspective
A book about "a fish out of water"
And maybe revolution or uprising, if I have room to upvote one more
And to downvote:
- A book that could be used for at least five of the 2023 prompts - mostly irrelevant to me since I do multiple challenges and can easily fit the book I need elsewhere (similar reason so why I'm not keen on the "second book that fits your favourite prompt" that just made it in)
- A book that is one of the top 23 Goodreads rated books in your TBR (same reasons as last time, just too much effort to weed through my massive list to find the top 23 and hope there's something there that interests me at the time)
- Maybe genre starting with any letter in your name, only because between my first and last name, I could easily pick any of my favourite genres (romance, contemporary, historical, thriller) so it's basically a freebie to me and I'd rather have something more specific, but on the other hand it's also very doable so I don't know if it's worth downvoting
And I'm on the fence about favourite subgenre (I don't really have one, except maybe dark academia if that counts) and environment/nature (for me, birds/bees/bunnies is already similar enough, and I downvote cli-fi every time it comes up since it just doesn't interest me at all)
I'm also on the fence about the diversity awards prompt. I appreciate how much work was put into finding the range of options, but I find it completely overwhelming and wouldn't even know where to start. I do agree with the suggestion to organize the list by themes if it gets through so people can at least have a better sense of where they might be interested in looking. I probably won't downvote because with so many options I'm sure I can find something, but I can't quite say that 100% at this point because the amount of work involved in finding a book I want is a bit off-putting at this point.
Irene wrote: "Hi @NancyJ, would you mind explaining "A cultural book that depicts a place or time and its culture" a little bit more? I'm a bit confused by the "depicts a place or time" part, because surely ever..."Sure. That line really doesn’t do the topic justice at all. The rest of the points I listed under the GR definition should help more. Look at the books that are considered cultural to see if there are some that you want to read. The tag lists and genre pages show the books with the most tags over time, and the new books too.
Culture is all around us but books set in our own culture don’t often reveal the guts of our cultural beliefs. We see it better in the contrasts. When we learn about another culture through travel, conversations, or fiction - we start to see how our culture is different. Stories involving immigrants or subcultures are particularly good at showing the contrasts. A well known example - what does it mean when someone won’t look you in the eyes?
Culture is made up of our values, assumptions about the world, unwritten rules of behavior, and beliefs. Until we hear other perspectives, we assume everyone knows the same “rules” or beliefs about the world, but those underlying assumptions can be completely different. I studied culture, read a lot about it, and taught it, but the examples I read in fiction helped me to FEEL it. Researchers tell us that people who read fiction have higher levels of empathy and emotional intelligence and it’s largely because we spend more time in other people’s heads, seeing how characters are perceiving the world.
Cultural books include those about life in another culture or subculture, or books involving multiple cultures interacting. Fantasy books can do the same thing. Some of the best social commentary is done through fantasy because it lowers our defenses. Other cultural books directly describe how our culture is changing. (Social media, behavior changes, sociology, social psychology, religion, politics, language, all reveal something about our changing culture.)
NancyJ wrote: "Irene wrote: "Hi @NancyJ, would you mind explaining "A cultural book that depicts a place or time and its culture" a little bit more? I'm a bit confused by the "depicts a place or time" part, becau..."Thanks for the great explanation, Nancy! Since the intention has to do with other perspectives and contrasts I guess I'll interpret it as similar to "a book about a culture that's not your own" ("a cultural book" didn't give me a strong indication of it being about a culture you're not super familiar with). Hope it doesn't compete too much with the diversity awards or Asian diaspora prompts, it's funny how they all came together in the same poll!
Irene wrote: "Hi @NancyJ, would you mind explaining "A cultural book that depicts a place or time and its culture" a little bit more? I'm a bit confused by the "depicts a place or time" part, because surely ever..."Your question about ethnicity vs culture is a good one. They’re not the same but they’re often related. If you grow up in a black, Mexican, Chinese, or Italian community in the US, you’ll be affected by the sub-culture, and you’ll pick up many beliefs and unwritten rules from the people around you, even if you don’t have the same ethnicity. People often talk about black culture, and Native American culture as sub-cultures in the U.S., but obviously they won’t all share the same beliefs across the country. My grandfather was Native American but he didn’t grow up in the culture and he didn’t talk about it with my mother. So she never learned about the culture.
Books written by an African American author about African American characters are generally put in a cultural diversity category, especially in school. There is no guarantee they’ll all reflect the culture though. I don’t think Goodreads users give as many ‘cultural’ tags to books about sub-cultures as they do to books from another country. It will often depend on the book.
NancyJ wrote: "Your question about ethnicity vs culture is a good one. They’re not the same but they’re often related. ..."That makes sense. My mind also probably went to race because one of the Listopias is called "Non-Caucasian Protagonists in Science Fiction, Fantasy, Horror, and Paranormal Romance" - interestingly enough, The Hunger Games is one of the top books on that Listopia because the MC is described as having "olive skin," which people took to mean racially ambiguous, but I wonder if choosing that book goes against the spirit of this prompt since that seems to barely qualify as non-caucasian. Although I guess it could count because it's a sci-fi world that is not our own.
Irene wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Irene wrote: "."
I know. I didn’t plan it that way. I do see all the prompts as distinct, and this one is focused more on culture than discrimination, so I would choose different books for them. I’m voting for them all, and whatever doesn’t make it will be on my extra challenge list.
Irene wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Your question about ethnicity vs culture is a good one. They’re not the same but they’re often related. ..."That makes sense. My mind also probably went to race because one of the ..."
I agree with you about Hunger Games, though it did treat the people in each district as different castes. I mainly clicked on those two lists because fantasy books weren’t well represented on the main list. Sorry, I didn’t look at them closely.
Added - I just noticed several books by Octavia Butler on the list. She has an incredible understanding of how culture is developed and maintained. Her trilogy Lilith’s Brood involves aliens and it’s really good.
Dawn, Imago, Adulthood Rites
NancyJ wrote: "I agree with you about Hunger Games. I mainly clicked on those two lists because fantasy books weren’t well represented on the main list. Sorry, I didn’t look at them closely."No worries! I like the possibly of reading fantasy/sci-fi for this prompt so I liked the choice of Listopias :)
NancyJ wrote: "Irene wrote: "Hi @NancyJ, would you mind explaining "A cultural book that depicts a place or time and its culture" a little bit more? I'm a bit confused by the "depicts a place or time" part, becau..."So the culture prompt is meant to be a diversity prompt? There’s nothing about the way it’s worded that implies that.
As I said in an earlier post (which was before Irene’s post and which was ignored), “ Doesn’t every book depict a culture? Even if it’s a book about a middle class family in suburban America, that’s culture, isn’t it?”
When people are voting you can’t assume that they’re going to read all your explanations, listopias, etc. The prompt just says culture and that’s in any and every book.
I’m disappointed in these prompts, they didn’t make it the first time because the group didn’t favor them. I’ll be using mostly downvoting and doing all the same ones I down voted before. I feel like we took the easy route instead of looking for new prompts.
I’m beginning to think I undersold the possibilities of first contact. Not sure if that’s a help or a hindrance
Anthony, It happened last year too. I think the Goodreads choice awards was suggested several times. A lot of great ideas don’t make it the first time, and it’s perfectly acceptable to repost them.
However if you want to vote for a new prompt I hope you’ll vote for the cultural prompt. I think environment + nature is new also.
I'm a bit surprised with the level of negativity around this poll... as someone who has been participating in the ATY voting process for 6 years now, this is how it always is... people run out of ideas for prompts, or they hope for their favorites that didn't get in before have one last shot. Our last polls are rarely full of new ideas.
That being said, I hope you take each prompt at face value, rather than seeing it as a repeat and dismissing it completely. Some of these were close calls that would have gotten in if not for stronger prompts in their polls, so there is interest there.
Voting is open! https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/UMC4MG/
That being said, I hope you take each prompt at face value, rather than seeing it as a repeat and dismissing it completely. Some of these were close calls that would have gotten in if not for stronger prompts in their polls, so there is interest there.
Voting is open! https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/UMC4MG/
Emily wrote: "I'm a bit surprised with the level of negativity around this poll... as someone who has been participating in the ATY voting process for 6 years now, this is how it always is... people run out of i..."The repeats show up because many people participating in the conversation like them. I think if people dislike that there are so many repeats, they should offer alternatives in the suggestion rounds.
Surprised myself and went 7 up, 1 down!Hoping this is the last poll so we can get to planning season (😎), but very curious to see how the results shake out since comments seem pretty divided (with the note that I know there are a lot more voters than commenters).
We're on poll 17 so that's 255 ideas, of course we have repeats!I would have been happy to submit for someone with a unique idea who was just missing the threads, if that's the problem. But if people don't speak up until potentially the last poll, there's not a lot we can do.
dalex wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Irene wrote: "Hi @NancyJ, would you mind explaining "A cultural book that depicts a place or time and its culture" a little bit more? I'm a bit confused by the "depicts a place or ti..."It surprises me that anyone DIDN'T see this as a diversity prompt. So interesting how one prompt can be interpreted so differently by group members.
dalex wrote: "I’m a bit confused about the culture prompt. Doesn’t every book depict a culture? Even if it’s a book about a middle class family in suburban America, that’s culture, isn’t it?"
That's my issue with the prompt- the booklist GR has is 47,000 books!
That's my issue with the prompt- the booklist GR has is 47,000 books!
°~Amy~° wrote: "dalex wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Irene wrote: "Hi @NancyJ, would you mind explaining "A cultural book that depicts a place or time and its culture" a little bit more? I'm a bit confused by the "depicts..."I am also unclear on the meaning of this prompt. I tried to do a Google to get a better idea of what "cultural" books would be and aside from finding the Google answer to the "What is a cultural book?" question being "Cultural refers to books that depict a place or time and its culture," I am not finding anything clear or concrete about this "type" of book (just things about multicultural or pop culture books..)
Ultimately I downvoted it for a combination of the above reason and the wording of the prompt itself, which was probably just trying to explain what is meant by "A cultural book" to those who don't read the threads but ends up being essentially redundant (in my mind it basically is saying "A cultural book that is a cultural book").
I don't hate the sentiment, but I wish it were clearer in its intent. Something like "A book about a culture you are not familiar with" or "A book about a culture that is not yours" would have been preferable.
Katie wrote: "I don't hate the sentiment, but I wish it were clearer in its intent. Something like "A book about a culture you are not familiar with" or "A book about a culture that is not yours" would have been preferable.."Exactly this.
5 up, 3 down. Can’t believe this is probably our last round of suggestions!Up:
1. A book by an Asian diaspora author - So glad this made a reappearance! I have a lot of books that could fill this prompt, and I love the thought behind it.
8. A book that has won a diversity award in the 21st Century (2001-present) - I actually really like this prompt! I don’t think I voted for it last time, but I love the thought behind it. And I love how much effort has gone into compiling all the links!
9. A book from your favorite sub-genre - Historical romance here we goooooooo.
10. A book related to first contact - I think this is a really fun one! The obvious reading is the sci-fi one, but I think you could be very flexible with this prompt from cultures meeting for the first time to couples meeting for the first time.
11. A book told from the villain’s perspective - another one I voted for last time, and I stand by that! I could do this in a lot of fun and flexible ways, and that’s what I look for from a book.
Down:
6. A book that was shelved as literary fiction - As I said last time: I am not a fan of literary fiction at all, and this would be an extremely hard prompt to fill.
7. A book that could be used for at least five of the 2023 challenge prompts - The last time this came up I thought it’d be really stressful to fill, and I still stand by that assessment! I’d spend the entire year trying to fit books in and getting steadily more resentful and stressed when they didn’t, and I’m just not looking forward to that!
12. A book that is one of the top 23 Goodreads rated books in your TBR - I don’t like goodreads ratings, and I don’t especially like tbr prompts.
I don't really understand the negativity about repeats. There were a few prompts on here that I went "oh no, not again" over, but there were also a fair few that I was thrilled to see come up again. It's just the nature of it, really!The only negativity/sadness I feel is that voting is almost over. These polls have made me realize that I'd quite happily just vote on random things for the entire year, because I enjoy it so much! XD
@siobahn, exactly! More polls, I’m not ready. @nancyJ thanks for the explanation a few posts up. I’ll definitely upvote this now, but on first look at the prompt and the info Emily posted about it, I wasn’t completely sure what was meant. The wording of the prompt may not be perfect, but I love the intent.
For villain’s perspective, I remember not voting either way when it came up before. Im leaning towards upvoting it. But I’m trying to think of what I read and outside of multiple pov books, I’m having a bit of trouble. It reminds me a bit of unreliable narrator. Would we be spoiled by knowing that?
Siobhan wrote: "I don't really understand the negativity about repeats. There were a few prompts on here that I went "oh no, not again" over, but there were also a fair few that I was thrilled to see come up again..."
If a prompt showed up every time, I could see negativity but IMHO, if per voting or discussion it seemed to be a popular prompt that just got in the wrong week of voting, might as well give it a second chance, If I didn't like it the first time, I'll just vote no again! But I'm often the minority around here!
If a prompt showed up every time, I could see negativity but IMHO, if per voting or discussion it seemed to be a popular prompt that just got in the wrong week of voting, might as well give it a second chance, If I didn't like it the first time, I'll just vote no again! But I'm often the minority around here!
Emily wrote: "I'm a bit surprised with the level of negativity around this poll... as someone who has been participating in the ATY voting process for 6 years now, this is how it always is... people run out of i..."I'm looking it positively as a "best of". These were some of the most loved prompts that didn't make it, instead of negatively as a bunch of repeats.
Pamela wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "I don't really understand the negativity about repeats. There were a few prompts on here that I went "oh no, not again" over, but there were also a fair few that I was thrilled to s..."A good example is the Tookie's list prompt from this year! Didn't get in the first time but was polarizing, so I didn't have much issue with it being suggested again (even if I downvoted it). If it'd kept showing up poll after poll my opinion may have soured, but I have nothing against any prompt - especially a polarizing or close call prompt - getting 2 goes.
I ended up with all up votes. I voted for all the prompts that gave us a chance at getting at least one more genre prompt onto the list. I am disappointed that amid all the title and cover prompts we have only one true genre prompt so far. Also voted for Asian Diaspora.
I do like many of these. The revolution prompt is a new one that allows for creativity, and I liked the villain's perspective and fish out of water prompts from earlier. I like the nonhorizontal cover text prompt as well, but maybe we have enough cover prompts already. I also like the genre that starts with any letter of your name. It's a neat idea, and if I did it I would use the first letter of my name to limit myself more (it's an M though so it wouldn't be super hard anyway).I still don't like the diversity award prompt, and now the cultural book. I appreciate the intent behind them, but they are SO broad I feel like it's just not a prompt anymore.
Emily wrote: "I'm a bit surprised with the level of negativity around this poll... as someone who has been participating in the ATY voting process for 6 years now, this is how it always is... people run out of i..."I'll be honest: I wasn't around much in the past week, but I did stop in and vote on the last poll. When I clicked on this poll 17 voting thread, I thought that I accidentally clicked on the previous poll because all the prompts seemed the same at first blush! But, yes, people who have been around awhile in ATY know to expect this in the final round. Last year's poll 17, which was the last, featured 9 repeat prompts (none of which made the final cut).
However, I don't think it's so much the fact that they're repeats that is what's behind people's reactions, or rather, why people feel like this is a poll of repeats; I think it's because they're immediate repeats so it's more obvious they're repeats. That was my reaction like I said; I just thought I clicked on the wrong thread or somehow the wrong list got pasted initially! Five of the fifteen are from Poll 16 and three of the fifteen are from Poll 15 (a ninth repeat is from Poll 13). That actually seems to be unique to this year. Last year, of the 9 repeats in the final poll, only 2 were also suggested in Poll 16 and only 1 in Poll 15.
This statistical analysis brought to you by Procrastination™.
I voted for revolution with a single book in mind, because Genevieve Cogman has written a retelling of the Scarlet Pimpernel but with vampires. It has been pushed from this year, so if it still doesn't materialise I'm sure there is plenty of revolutionary sci-fi and fantasy to take its place.
I appreciate the statistical analysis, Steve, as always, and that does make more sense to me.
To be fair, Poll 16 was a wild ride in terms of voting, so I'm glad to see (most) of these get a second chance because the voting was very skewed last round. But personally, I'm hoping for 3 prompts to make it in so we can move on from voting to planning (which will be also be brought to you by Procrastination).
To be fair, Poll 16 was a wild ride in terms of voting, so I'm glad to see (most) of these get a second chance because the voting was very skewed last round. But personally, I'm hoping for 3 prompts to make it in so we can move on from voting to planning (which will be also be brought to you by Procrastination).
Alicia wrote: "For villain’s perspective, I remember not voting either way when it came up before. Im leaning towards upvoting it. But I’m trying to think of what I read and outside of multiple pov books, I’m having a bit of trouble. It reminds me a bit of unreliable narrator. Would we be spoiled by knowing that?"It's a good question, and.... maybe? The first books I thought of were the You series. There's a fourth one coming out next year so I would definitely read that. I don't think it's a spoiler to know that Joe is the villain, as likeable as he is. You figure that out pretty quickly in the first book. I don't think it's quite the same as unreliable narrator.
I wasn't going to upvote first contact but I think I will now, after reading the discussion. I like the alternate ways of looking at it. Which means I need to decide which prompt I was going to downvote will now be neutral.
dalex wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Irene wrote: "Hi @NancyJ, would you mind explaining "A cultural book that depicts a place or time and its culture" a little bit more? I'm a bit confused by the "depicts a place or ti..."Note - the first link given for Cultural shows the books that are considered a good fit for this prompt.
Dalex, sorry I didn't see the other post. Q1) While many books are set in a time or place, they won't all necessarily convey a lot about the culture. We tend to see cultural norms more clearly when contrasting them with another culture. We are often blind to our own culture's norms unless we see someone violating them. Little Fires Everywhere is set in Shaker Heights Ohio, and it does contain some interesting examples of cultural topics. The American and Asian mothers in the story have different values and beliefs about adoption. An immigrant living in Ohio who read that book might learn more about our culture than we would, because we tale certain knowledge for granted.
See my post to Irene above. Most people (who read these books) use the cultural tag for books from other countries, sub-cultures, or books involving immigrants or other x-cultural interactions. Plus literary fiction involving cultural topics, social commentary, essays, and non-fiction books in sociology, social media. language, etc.
Q2) - "Cultural" has a different focus than diversity (which is often focused on reducing bias) but there is clearly some overlap depending on what you want to read. I would read a book set in another country for this prompt, but I would read a U.S. book for the diversity prompts. Books about other countries are more likely to be tagged cultural, and books about race or ethnicity in the US are more likely to be tagged diversity. (Generally. They're user generated so you might see anything.)
Culture includes the underlying assumptions we have about people (e.g. are they basically good, or mostly selfish?), our values and beliefs, and the unwritten rules of behavior (is it OK to speak up when you disagree with a teacher?)
I like the idea of the villain prompt, but couldn't figure out what to read. I don't know if these lists help anyone else:https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/4...
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
I went with all upvotes this time. There really isn't a single prompt on the list that I would mind winning. Most of these are prompts that I wish had been voted in the first time around. So, the negativity surprises me.
For "A book told from the villain’s perspective" here are some lists I found via google that might be more helpful than the goodreads lists where anyone can add anything so they're riddled with inaccuracies.https://www.bustle.com/p/13-books-tol...
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/th...
https://www.tor.com/2022/07/06/5-fant...
https://booksforward.com/anti-hero-fa...
https://bookriot.com/best-antihero-ch...
https://favbookshelf.com/fantasy-book...
https://teaandinksociety.com/greatest...
Right now I'm reading Shrines of Gaiety by Kate Atkinson. It would be perfect for the villain POV prompt.
Is anyone else confused about what cultural books are? How do you know if you like this type of books?
To find out if you like cultural books, look at page one of this list:
Long-time Favorite Cultural books
https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
These are the most popular cultural books in recent years: These books have been around a long time and chances are good that you've read some of them or seen them on some of the BOM threads. If you don't like those books, then forget about this prompt.
If you DID like some of those books, take a look at the newer books tagged cultural, to see which books you want to add to your TBR. You can click on "cultural" at the top of the page to get to the genre page with the new books. Or use the link below.
NEW cultural Books
https://www.goodreads.com/genres/cult...
Okay I went three up and five down, partly becuase msot the repeats are not things I wnated first time. As I have already used up my WC I am dreading the TBR one getting in.
Emily wrote: "But personally, I'm hoping for 3 prompts to make it in so we can move on from voting to planning..."Couldn't agree more. It is definitely time to move on to the next step! :)
Martha wrote: "Returning home and Asian diaspora are two definite up votes for me. I change my mind on up and down votes for the six votes I have left. I shifted my preferences between now and the last time many ..."Those are my 3 favorites too. The Asian diaspora was my favorite last time and I'll vote for it again. For the new prompts, I like Returning home and Cultural.
I'd like to see how you find a literary option for all of the prompts. I'll have to watch your posts!
dalex wrote: "For "A book told from the villain’s perspective" here are some lists I found via google that might be more helpful than the goodreads lists where anyone can add anything so they're riddled with ina..."Thanks for posting these. The first list might have something I could read. I don't think Circe fits. She isn't the villain in this book. All of these lists are subjective.
I was 95% done with a post I was writing Re: the Revolution prompt when I heard hot air balloons going over my house! I live close to the Balloon Park (where the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta is going on). This was the first day they blew my direction. So, of course, we ran outside to see them and followed them to the dam and park where they were landing! It was fabulous and made my day!So, back to revolutions! I know there are lots of great options, some fit the diversity prompt, some famous classics but lots of historical fiction also, lots of countries to choose from, non-fiction is an option, as is sci-fi! Besides the obvious American, French, and Russian Revolutions, there were ones in Latin America (Cuba, Mexico, Bolivia, Nicaragua), Ireland (the IRA), Jacobite uprising (Outlander series comes to mind), Chinese Cultural Revolution, the Industrial Revolution, even the Sexual Revolution! I recently read The Glass-Blowers, set during the French Revolution, by Daphne du Maurier, which I loved. Even though a book may not come to mind immediately, I hope members will vote for this one.
Harini wrote: "I went with all upvotes this time. There really isn't a single prompt on the list that I would mind winning. Most of these are prompts that I wish had been voted in the first time around. So, the n..."I'm with you. All up votes and getting tired of the negativity. I wish some of those who post would focus more of the pluses of prompts they might like and less on what is wrong with prompts they don't like.
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