The Sword and Laser discussion
What is the SF equivalent of Harry Potter?
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Christos
(last edited Sep 15, 2022 12:56AM)
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Sep 14, 2022 11:47PM
When I try to look up SF equivalent of HP I just get is Young Adult dystopian novels like Hunger Games. Not all of them are bad I love Enders Game but when I think of a fun adventure novel with crazy tech I don’t think war, post apocalyptic, etc. Another thing i see on the list is a lot of LitRPG books like Reay Player One I am not personally a fan of that genre. I am also not looking for books like Jumper which is technically SF because of his powers but I think that's more Fantasy. A perfect example of what I am looking for is the show Cyberpunk Egerunners
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Quick response - I am not aware of anything recent. Try checking through a list of what we would once have called 'Heinlein's Juveniles'
Alan wrote: "Quick response - I am not aware of anything recent. Try checking through a list of what we would once have called 'Heinlein's Juveniles'"As I was reading Christos comment I was thinking the exact same thing. They are not a connected series, but individual books written for a younger audience. Over in the “what are you reading” post we were just talking about Have Space Suit—Will Travel, might not be a bad spot to start.
I don't quite understand what you're looking for, HP definitely had a war on. But here's some fun, adventure-y science fictions that might work for you:The Host YA, dystopian with cool aliens.
Trans Liberty Riot Brigade dystopian with a edgy punky feel to it.
Cry Pilot military scifi, this series reminded me a lot of Ender's Game.
Escaping Exodus set inside weird and wonderful space beasts.
Tuf Voyaging GRRM having fun with crazy tech & cats.
The Quantum Thief excellent cyberpunk series.
What comes to mind when I think of a SF chosen one, with special abilities, and a story told in a series of books, is Venus Prime."Venus Prime is a series of science-fiction novels written by Paul Preuss and based upon stories written by Sir Arthur C. Clarke. They tell the story of Sparta, a young woman with superhuman abilities, her search for the truth about her origins, and her battle against the cult known as the Free Spirit."
https://www.goodreads.com/series/5899...
I read these years ago and I probably picked them up because of the striking cover art of the original paperbacks. There was a tv adaptation in development at some point.
The Heinlein ones are what came to mind as well, or maybe the Lucky Starr series by Asimov or the Mars series by Edgar Rice Burroughs. Those are all quite old and dated but still fun to read. I'm particularly a fan of Heinlein. As a side note, it bugs me that Ender's Game is sometimes listed as YA. I don't think it was meant to be and he's an adult in all the following books.
Technically, "Star Wars" fits the bill. Harry P and Luke Skywalker vs. Voldemort and Darth Vader. Both required training to learn to use their talents.
Wish I could find it...read a story a year or so before Ender's Game. In it a teen boy is offered a chance to play a high tech version of Missile Command. He's given carte blanche for control. Of course it's real, but the kid doesn't know. He wins the war, but is annoyed that his fun is over and smacks a control before they can lock him out, casually killing millions of people who had survived.It was a longish short story in one of the mags. When I read Ender's Game I thought, "Oh, riffing on the same concept."
Anyhoo, if anyone knows what that story is, I'd dearly love to reread it.
The Heinlein juveniles are definitely YA and fun but they're VERY dated and they don't have anything like the HP found family at school with mystery and danger vibe.The Quantum Thief is a very heavy, advanced SF book. Ender's Game is as close as I thing SF has come to the school YA vibe.
I haven’t actually read it, but from what I’ve heard, Victories Greater Than Death by Charlie Jane Anders has the fun space adventure chosen one vibe you’re looking for.
Although they are Legends & it sounds like you don't want Star Wars, the Jedi Academy Trilogy from the mid-90's might be up your alley, Christos. The 1st book is Jedi Search.
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Too bad Trike isn't here. He'd lead the Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi rant and I'd back him all the way 😂
Star Wars "is" Fantasy. The Force "is" magic
Speaking of that. While I typically agreed with you guys on Star Wars, I disagreed with the take that Star Trek was also fantasy. And while not featuring adolescents, I wonder if the Star Trek series of novels would fit the bill for the adventure feel, while not being too overly militaristic.
Tassie Dave wrote: "Star Wars "is" Fantasy. The Force "is" magic."Okay, I concede. You're right.
Tassie Dave wrote: "Too bad Trike isn't here. He'd lead the Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi rant and I'd back him all the way 😂"Indeed! We need a "draft Trike" movement. Just make a new account, dude! GR has permanently mangled your old account, just make a new one.
And also, C3PO and R2D2 are space fairies. C3PO does the equivalent of Pan interpreting Tinkerbell every time R2D2 goes beep boop. And don't get me started on WerewolfBacca.
I argue the "Preponderous of Evidence." On the "it is Space Opera" side, we have robots, space ships, space travel, laser guns, aliens, tech and stylistic futuristic fashion (Looking at you Lando.) On the "It is Fantasy"side we have the Force. For me, Star Wars is SF all the way.
John (Taloni) wrote: "Tassie Dave wrote: "Too bad Trike isn't here. He'd lead the Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi rant and I'd back him all the way 😂"Indeed! We need a "draft Trike" movement. Just make a new account, dude! GR ..." I miss you and your grumpy-ass reviews Trike.
Stephen wrote: "I argue the "Preponderous of Evidence." On the "it is Space Opera" side, we have robots, space ships, space travel, laser guns, aliens, tech and stylistic futuristic fashion (Looking at you Lando.)..."Magic Swords and Wizards... Pretty much High Fantasy with dog fights.
The space ships etc are just props.
Enders Game is the SF equivalent of HP right down to an author news who starts publicising really dodgy social views shortly after publishing interesting books.
All space ships are Props according to your logic
I read a lot of Star Wars novels. If they hardly feature the Force, I shelve them as sci-fi even if they talk about it, but since joining S&L, I started thinking of Star Wars as space fantasy most of the time. for Example: Alphabet Squadron is sci-fi because it doesn't feature any Force use, but if I wanted to, I could shelve all Star Wars as Sci-fi. Hunt the Stars featured a major character/race that could basically use the force. I feel like the space ships & blasters make it scifi if we want it to be.
There's nothing in any publishing genre that's near the impact of Harry Potter. It's a juggernaut. For SF Star Wars is probably the closest, but altho there are books that is primarily filmed entertainment.There are plenty of series' that follow the same character. One that is YA friendly if not completely YA? Yeah, still not there. Maybe the Ender's Game series. TBH I know there are plenty of fans of that but I found the followups frustrating and bailed after the fourth, wishing I hadn't bothered with any of the sequels. Bio of a Space Tyrant? Way too gritty. Xanth itself (same author as BoaST)? Good first book, pretty decent next two, trails off with some decent elements for a while, then utter trash. Honestly the closest analogues are in anime.
As a side note Rowling has said she doesn't consider Harry Potter to be fantasy. The implication is strong that she doesn't want to be associated with us greasy nerds. I look at Harry Potter and from the setting alone go "wait, what?" Of course it's fantasy. There is a distinct whiff of snobbery to her statement, one I find in some (not all) literary SF efforts.
John (Taloni) wrote: "There's nothing in any publishing genre that's near the impact of Harry Potter. It's a juggernaut. For SF Star Wars is probably the closest, but altho there are books that is primarily filmed enter..."Ender's Shadow was more like the tone of Ender's Game than Speaker for the Dead was imo.
John (Taloni) wrote: "There's nothing in any publishing genre that's near the impact of Harry Potter. It's a juggernaut. For SF Star Wars is probably the closest, but altho there are books that is primarily filmed enter..."“I'm not the world's greatest expert, but I would have thought that the wizards, witches, trolls, unicorns, ... broomsticks and spells would have given her a clue?' - when J.K. Rowling insisted she wasn't writing fantasy.”
― Terry Pratchett
JR antecedent is most obviously Enid Blyton and the rest of the public school books inspired by Tom Brown's School Days.
John (Taloni) wrote: "As a side note Rowling has said she doesn't consider Harry Potter to be fantasy. The implication is strong that she doesn't want to be associated with us greasy nerds. "I can’t speak for all, but this greasy nerd doesn’t want to be associated with Rowling either, so that works out rather nicely.
Back to the topic, while it is nothing alike tonally (and I can’t say I like it much), Dune would be the story I think would fit best as the ‘sci-fi’ Harry Potter. It’s incredibly popular (show me someone who hasn’t heard of it, and you’ll be showing me an alien or a hermit) and features a young protagonist who is thrust into a strange new world where he discovers that he may (or may not) be the ‘chosen one’.
Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "John (Taloni) wrote: "As a side note Rowling has said she doesn't consider Harry Potter to be fantasy. The implication is strong that she doesn't want to be associated with us greasy nerds. "I ca..."
I’m not greasy! I wash my hair every week, whether it needs it or not!
But no, I don’t want to be associated with JKR either.
Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "John (Taloni) wrote: "As a side note Rowling has said she doesn't consider Harry Potter to be fantasy. The implication is strong that she doesn't want to be associated with us greasy nerds. "I ca..."
That's a great parallel. I need to read more of the Dune novels.
^ Having read the main sequence of Dune books all the way through recently, skipping only the one-shot character npvels, I want to say "For the love of God, DON'T!"But then you would miss out on the grand ideas and awful execution of the non-Frank Herbert written books. Then there's the odd betrayal of Dune's storylines in the ones Frank Herbert did write, which he expressed as the natural outgrowth of themes in that book. Anyhoo. Dune and its many sequels are a part of the SFnal cultural landscape. Enjoy! Even if bashing them is half the fun.
You could probably find a lot more examples searching for "Hero's journey" type science fiction (Red Rising, Ready Player One...).https://www.reddit.com/r/suggestmeabo...
The Thunder and Lightning series by John Varley, starting with Red Thunder, might be a good choice. I've only read the first book so far and it was pretty good.
Thanks everyone for the reccomendations. I’ve updated my YBR list
IfYou want the heroes misadventures try the Vokosigan books.
try Lois McMaster Bujolds miles vorkosigan series or the Honor Harrington series (sorry blanking on author right now).
I wonder if Armada by Ernest Cline falls into this category? It's only one book but I feel it fits the sort of vibe you might be looking for.
Cody wrote: "I wonder if Armada by Ernest Cline falls into this category? It's only one book but I feel it fits the sort of vibe you might be looking for."I think you may be right. While it does involve the military, it is not as traditional as some of the other mentioned books.
It occurs to me that one reason it’s tricky to find a close equivalent to Potter is that the type of story that makes it fantasy doesn’t have an equivalent in sci fi for obvious reasons. ‘It’s a school, but for magic’ is always going to be a fun and appealing premise, but the science version of that is just, well, a school! A kid getting a letter telling him he comes from a long line of scientists and that he’s invited to attend the Sciencing School for Scientists probably isn’t the most fruitful beginning to a sci-fi novel.
Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "It occurs to me that one reason it’s tricky to find a close equivalent to Potter is that the type of story that makes it fantasy doesn’t have an equivalent in sci fi for obvious reasons. ‘It’s a sc..."I think there's something to that. The hidden magic world that normal people don't know about is common, but the science fiction equivalent is kind of hard to picture.
Going back to the original request for "fun adventure novel with crazy tech", I wonder if spies might actually be a more apt genre for this. My youngest son recently read Super Secret Super Spies: Mystery of the All-Seeing Eye and I think it kind of fits: smart kid recruited for a secret spy society made up of other kids with lots of cool gadgets and gear.
Alternately, maybe the Alex Rider or Young James Bond series would fit.
Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "A kid getting a letter telling him he comes from a long line of scientists and that he’s invited to attend the Sciencing School for Scientists probably isn’t the most fruitful beginning to a sci-fi novel."This reminds me obliquely of Gail Carriger's Finishing School series. In the tradition of England of the day (1850 or so) that was an all girls school - of spies in training. Their "brother" school was a school for mad scientists. Regrettably Gail did not follow up in depth. Such a great idea.
Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "It occurs to me that one reason it’s tricky to find a close equivalent to Potter is that the type of story that makes it fantasy doesn’t have an equivalent in sci fi for obvious reasons. ‘It’s a sc..."Agreed. Ender's Game is the only close SF comparison I can think of. Almost all of the suggestions here aren't anything like HP as they're missing the 'bright kids go to school' aspect. They're good books, but nothing like an SFnal Potter.
The "Hidden Magic World" could be/ is done in Sci Fi with time travel, and the aliens are real and all over the place, just hiding. But I don't know of a series, or even many stand alone books that treat either as a school. And frankly most of the time when those aspects of sci fi are used, they lean closer to fantasy then sci-fi. That being said, I think a school with hidden aliens among us is a decent idea, and could make a pretty good series.
Hidden sci-fi world makes me think of Old Man's War, which really handles it pretty well over the course of the series. There's not a school, but there's definitely a lot of culture-shock which has a little of the same appeal as someone finding out that the world is more interesting than they ever thought.
Seth wrote: "Hidden sci-fi world makes me think of Old Man's War, which really handles it pretty well over the course of the series. There's not a school, but there's definitely a lot of culture..."Good call. While with the exception of Zoe's Tale the series doesn't feature adolescents like most YA books. From what I remember, I do think Scalzi's writing style is fairly accessible in this series to older YA audiences. Still has a bit of sex and violence, but it is not too dark, and heavy.
If we do hidden world you could do worse than Jodi Taylor's St Mary's books. Recruited to be a time travelling historian... Hijinks ensue and not in a military setting. Has that English institutional veneer and similar arch types.
Iain wrote: "If we do hidden world you could do worse than Jodi Taylor's St Mary's books. Recruited to be a time travelling historian... Hijinks ensue and not in a military setting. Has that En..."I love that series and the spin off series about the time police.
Try the “Honor Harrington” series. The Honorverse is a military science fiction book series, its two subseries, two prequel series, and anthologies created by David Weber and published by Baen Books. They are centered on the space navy career of the principal protagonist Honor Harrington. The series follows Honor Harrington, military heroine and later, influential politician, during a time of extreme interstellar change and tension.
I love also the “Bobiverse”. Bob Johansson has just sold his software company and is looking forward to a life of leisure. There are places to go, books to read, and movies to watch. So it's a little unfair when he gets himself killed crossing the street.Bob wakes up a century later to find that corpsicles have been declared to be without rights, and he is now the property of the state. He has been uploaded into computer hardware and is slated to be the controlling AI in an interstellar probe looking for habitable planets. The stakes are high: no less than the first claim to entire worlds. If he declines the honor, he'll be switched off, and they'll try again with someone else. If he accepts, he becomes a prime target. There are at least three other countries trying to get their own probes launched first, and they play dirty.The safest place for Bob is in space, heading away from Earth at top speed. Or so he thinks. Because the universe is full of nasties, and trespassers make them mad - very mad.
Star of the Guardians is a series of four science fiction/space opera novels written by Margaret Weis (without assistance from usual co-author Tracy Hickman). The original trilogy starts with The Lost King…A galactic revolution has toppled the Starfire dynasty, and swept into power the harsh Democratic Republic. To support the murdered king is now punishable by death. But on distant worlds, the few surviving Guardians carry a dangerous secret: Somewhere in the galaxy, they shield the rightful heir to the throne.
Stalking the hidden king is the Warlord, a ruthless Republican general who wields the bloodsword. Only a few brave rebels dare to oppose him: young Dion, who fights to find his destiny; the mercenary Tusk; the outlaw commander Dixter; and the beautiful Lady Maigrey, the only person alive who can match the Warlord’s cunning. Theirs is the ultimate battle against a star-spanning corruption—the ultimate sacrifice for the glory of the lost king’s throne.
Tassie Dave wrote: "G.R. wrote: "Technically, "Star Wars" fits the bill. Harry P and Luke Skywalker vs. Voldemort and Darth Vader. Both required training to learn to use their talents."Too bad Trike isn't here. He'd lead the Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi rant and I'd back him all the way 😂
Star Wars "is" Fantasy. The Force "is" magic "
All right, I’m back. Let’s do this:
…naw, just kidding.
I missed you guys, too. You have no idea. But my wife does. And boy is she thankful the password reset worked.
Anyway, you guys have covered the biggest ones, I think.
For the “chosen one” aspect: Dune.
For the “secret society” aspect: Men in Black movies, The Lives of Tao books. (I don’t know if the content is all-ages appropriate. I read things I shouldn’t have and I don’t own any children.)
But if it’s the whole younger-skewing “kids will save the world” thing, then I think the Animorphs series is just the thing. Aliens invade and only kids stand a chance to stop them! 54 books in the series! First one is The Invasion.
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