Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion
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Discussion: Plum Bun
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I think that the Fauset uses Virginia and Angela to show us the choices available to women in general in the 1920s. Virginia is an example of the choices available to middle class black women: good school foundation and then marriage to an upstanding black man from school, church or social club. Angela chooses what she believes is a freedom that white women enjoy by passing.
I finished it last week and I enjoyed it but I guess I feel like I have more to say about it when someone is attacking it (like Amiri Baraka) :PEven though I definitely appreciated its discussion of gender...well, I don't want to spoil the book because I know it's not that time yet! I'll put it under a spoiler tag: (view spoiler)
Paige wrote: "I finished it last week and I enjoyed it but I guess I feel like I have more to say about it when someone is attacking it (like Amiri Baraka) :PEven though I definitely appreciated its discussion..."
Hi Paige -
I agree with what you have said.
I too am putting a comment in spoiler before I forget.
(view spoiler)
Janet wrote: "thanks, Beverlyjust googled one of the speakers, Allyson Hobbs, who wrote about not only what is gained, but certainly what was lost when people passed. (http://www.allysonhobbs.com/talks-and......"
I was reminded last night about another book I read years ago related to passing - what is lost and what is gained.
Sweeter the Juice: A Family Memoir in Black and White by Shirlee Taylor Haizlip
The author researched her mother's family and found the branch that was passing for white. The black family was successful and the white family was certainly less successful.
I have finished reading the book, but I'm still thinking about it and trying to put it in its historical context. The introduction was very helpful. Thanks to Will and others who posted links to it!
Columbus wrote: "George wrote: "finished the book yesterday. I would say there was one late plot twist that was rather melodramatic and more than a stretch. I have rather mixed feelings on the book overall. there w..."I thought it was interesting that 2 different women referred to their husband as God.
But yes, gender and class seem to be issues given as much importance as race, or close enough anyway. I was left wondering if that didn't have a lot to do with the criticism she was taking for her work.
Mod
well, of course, Roger Racist at least appears to be her golden ticket to a glorious future. Either you play the game full out or not at all and we do get the earlier incident with her mom intentionally ignoring both her husband and the same sister while out passing for fun and relaxation. I kept wondering if perhaps they would marry and have a kid who didn't meet Roger's racial expectations. but it's all very ugly, especially as Roger himself is so overtly racist and has few other redeeming features beyond a high steady income which he personally does little to generate. But I can't imagine the author didn't want the reader to boil over on this.
Mod
Exactly, George. What would be the purpose in all of this if the reader weren't incensed by this. I realized that while reading it but it certainly didn't make me less upset. Gosh, I hate when that happens. You often think about the brutality and horrific violence in some slave narratives or even the evil in some of the war torn African nations we've read and realize it has to be this way in order for the author to get their point across.
Of course, this is child's play compared to next months read!
hmm. so buckle your seat belt for next month then. it's going to be a bumpy ride? thanks for the head's up, I think.the Roger gambit was particularly irritating when he proved to be such a cad. it's not like he ever had her interests at heart. and Lord knows what he would have done had he found out her secret while they were together.
in any case, I didn't find myself often cheering on Angele either.
What started out as a promising read for me slowly devolved. I came to dislike Angela more and more as her character became more central and the story all about her. She was the most selfish and materialistic of persons at times and at times so very obtuse and naive. She starts out so very prim and proper and all about not sleeping with him (Roger) before marriage. Then she turns into the ultimate goldigger, perfectly willing to sleep with him, overlook his rabid racism, and agree to live in sin in his love nest. So you throw away everything you supposedly hold dear to live a life (and a lie) of luxury? I suppose people have done worse for less but it doesn't make this character any less appealing.
Well, I agree of course. What's to actually like or admire in Angela for much of the book? on the other hand, I wasn't particularly crazy about some of the plot twists in the novel itself either, so I have some serious reservations about the book as well. it raised some interesting issues
I agree that Angela was not likable, naive, selfish, etc. but I thought that was the point of the story - to show passing was not the end all and that you usually ended up giving up much of yourself and that the burden of keeping up the mask and bearing the secrets was a heavy burden.Angela could not be "free" or happy until she claimed her true self and let others know that she was a black woman.
Beverly wrote: "I agree that Angela was not likable, naive, selfish, etc. but I thought that was the point of the story - to show passing was not the end all and that you usually ended up giving up much of yoursel..."I agree with you, Beverly. I am trying to look at this book in the context of the times in which it was written. Still working on that.
Mod
We can also discuss the Introduction by Deborah McDowell as well: Regulating Midwives.
We would be remiss to not discuss this fantastic introduction by Ms. McDowell as group member, Will wisely suggested. Ms. McDowell was able to expound on the topics that we talked about in the discussion: race; gender; and passing, but, also other topical subjects including marriage, sex and politics and how others both within and outside the publishing world viewed her body of work.
Do you think some of the harsh criticism she received for not being more forceful, vocal or militant enough about race issues were justified? After reading the book, re-reading the introduction and thinking about what life must've been like for blacks during that time it's really a rather complex issue and something I would need to think about some more. I think Fauset had an obligation to herself to write the book that was important to her and that's what she did. She could've also sullied her reputation - but increased book sales - by writing a more sexualized version of this book, pandered to the lowest common denominator, but then how true would she have been to herself? The sexual situations in the book were rather demure and implied and felt right for this book.
On the contrary, I think she should be commended more than anything as a strong woman of intellect and influence writing about subjects that were rather taboo especially for a woman. Then you have to wonder just how much of this criticism was simply jealousy and misogynistic because she refused to toe-the-mark to the powers that be who were overwhelmingly or exclusively, men.
The novel picked up for me when the scene shifted from Angela to tell the story of Cross and his heritage. That his Brazilian mother and Af-AM father could come to the U.S. and even laying low as they were wont to do, expect to escape the virulent racism of the time and especially directed to mixed couples was a recipe for disaster. And disaster did indeed find them. Because his mother who was actually mixed with a little bit of every ethnicity, looked white and his father dark, his Brazilian mother not accustomed to U.S. racism, payed a heavy price. Really the entire Cross family suffered.
Mod
Yes, William, I made note of that scene as well and glad you brought that up. I made note of it because it seemed like such a departure from the rest of the book; the killing was just so dark and gruesome it sort of cast a darkness over the relative lightheartedness of the book. Cross' Brazilian mother now feels the coloureds are cursed, "why else would they be so abused, so hounded." I thought that comment was especially interesting.
About the killing - it's been a few weeks since I read that part but it reminds me of the multiple layers in the book. Despite the fact that it could be relatively easy to dismiss the novel as a middle class period piece, it does remind us of the complexities of the people's lives and histories. Thanks for reminding us.
MY BOOK REVIEW OF ‘PLUM BUN: A NOVEL WITHOUT A MORAL” BY JESSIE REDMON FAUSET This novel gave us much to think about. But I am going to start with the simplest question of them all. “Will, did you enjoy this novel?” In all honesty I must answer that I did, very much so. Despite the many technical flaws with the novel, as well as with the central character of the story, I never once lost my ability to suspend disbelief of the fictive world that Ms. Fauset so brilliantly created for us. True, several times I came dangerously close to giving up on the book because of some foolish thing that Angela did or didn’t do, particularly in relationship to her love life.
But I remained with the story despite those foolish things because the narrator told us early in the novel that Angela’s mother taught Angela as a young girl about the opportunities the two of them had in white America due to their light skin color, if they took advantage of them. She even taught her young daughter how to pass for white and about all the attendant pleasures. In other words, it was the mother’s way to escape from time to time to her dream world, the same as many blacks today go movie theaters for escape. The mother pretended to be Caucasian only to amuse herself in a white world that she felt had hoarded all the good things in life just for white people. A hoarding that excluded people of color, especially black people whom they seemed to look down on.
Angela’s mother never regarded or advocated “passing” as a serious way for light-skinned black people to live in American. She only passed when she was sure no one in the black community would be harmed by her actions. She saw nothing wrong with dressing up on occasions and going downtown and enjoying the finer things of life that Philadelphia offered only to white people. And often she took her white-appearing daughter, Angela, with her to partake of the good life. This was the mother’s way of playing a joke on White Supremacy. What’s important is that she dearly loved her black-skinned husband and loved the life the two of them had together as a family in their black community.
The narrator tells us: “It was from her mother that Angela learned the possibilities for joy and freedom which seemed to her inherent in mere whiteness.”
It was vastly different for Angela, however, who tried to escape permanently from her native black world. Clearly Angela missed the point of her mother’s lesson. Angela lacked her mother’s imagination and sense of humor about life. Plus Angela might have been too young at the time to comprehend the nuances of her mother’s lifestyle model.
This perhaps made Angela repugnant to many readers. But not for me, for Angela, regardless of what you may otherwise think of her, wasn’t motivated by racial self-hatred or a feeling of shame for being black. In fact, she lost none of her sense of duty to help the Negro race, especially if she could marry into white wealth and financially aid black folks from that station in life. Unlike her mother, she foolishly saw passing as white as a permanent panacea for happiness and fulfillment.
Remember, this was a time in American history when it was very difficult for women, particularly black women, to get jobs and make a decent living for themselves. So it’s hard for me not to have some sympathy for Angela’s plight. This compassion was enough to make me want to stay in Fauset’s fascinating world.
I can’t sign off without mentioning that I couldn’t buy the great love affair between Angela and Anthony, nor Fauset’s contrived ending. Both of these flaws were minor and should have been caught by a good editor.
Will Gibson
Novelist
http://www.amazon.com/Will-Gibson/e/B...
Well, I have to say I found the plot highly contrived at times, particularly at points involving Anthony. I don't think anything compares to finding out that after much passage of time Anthony is also of mixed heritage and confesses this to Angele only to find out so is she but opps, sorry, he's now engaged to her darker, younger sister. that's more dime novel than literature to me. While I understand through the story much of what motivates Angele/Angela and have no problem empathizing with her, I never was able to warm up to her as a character, partially related to Fauset's style of writing, which I found emotionally alienating, especially early on although I learned to live with it.
Even so, I felt there was a lot of value to be gleaned from the novel and I was especially impressed with the feminist issues it promoted, but I find it more of interest for its historic than its literary value. I'm still glad I had a chance to read it though.
George wrote: "Well, I have to say I found the plot highly contrived at times, particularly at points involving Anthony. I don't think anything compares to finding out that after much passage of time Anthony is a..."Your thoughts are similar to mine, George. While I applaud the courage of the author and her far-sighted examination of race and gender, the book felt too much like one of those movies from the '30s and '40s where the heroine faces all sorts of obstacles before ending up with the perfect guy. I have been struggling with accepting it as a novel of its time, but it felt very contrived to me.
Mod
I agree with all of you about the annoying Angele/Angela and as I previously stated, I disliked her quite a bit. It was exasperating and frustrating reading about her love issues, constant whining and myriad other problems. On the other hand, I thought that was the authors intent. Why make her a likable character, someone to be enamored with and loved when you're trying to get your point across about an issue you don't approve of?
I thought the story was contrived, somewhat, but maybe the author decided to forego a more authentic or organic route to make this book more accessible to some who may not have read it otherwise. I guess I enjoyed it a little more than the rest of you, maybe not as much as Nella Larsen's Passing or James Weldon Johnson's The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man, but I enjoyed it very, very much nonetheless.
What say the rest of you?
Mod
Columbus wrote: "Will, enjoyed your review immensely!I agree with all of you about the annoying Angele/Angela and as I previously stated, I disliked her quite a bit. It was exasperating and frustrating reading a..."
I enjoyed the book - it is a classic that I had not read and glad it was chosen as BOM.
I agree that I did not enjoy it as much Nella Larsen's Passing and Johnson's book.
For this book it was the gender/women issues that appealed to me more than the issue of passing.
I thought the author addressed the issues of the time and the frustration of the black middle class (especially women).
I liked that the father had his own business and that was how he was able to elevate his family into the middle class.
I know that this was the time of the Harlem Renaissance but thought that it was interesting that both daughters wanted a career in the arts.
Columbus wrote: "What's your thoughts on the subtitle: A novel without a moral? It's certainly there for a reason."I had to smile at the subtitle as I thought in some ways it was ironic.
I thought the book came across as a little preachy and the characters and actions were drafted to get the author's pov across.
Mod
I had to smile at the subtitle as I thought in some ways it was ironic.
I thoug..."
Yes, kind of tongue-in-cheek - sly and cunning that Fauset. I really didn't give much thought about it while reading the book. Wasn't til I finished it I had to giggle a bit.
Mod
I agree with all of you about the annoying Angele/Angela and as I previously stated, I disliked her quite a bit. It was exasperating and frus..."
Beverly wrote: "Columbus wrote: "What's your thoughts on the subtitle: A novel without a moral? It's certainly there for a reason."
I had to smile at the subtitle as I thought in some ways it was ironic.
I thoug..."
Beverly, I'm also glad it was BOM and triumphed over a slew of other good selections. Seems like every year we find more and more writers, photographers, artists, musicians and scholars that created great work during the Harlem Renaissance. Seems to have been a much more prolific period than any of us could have ever imagined.
As a post script to our discussion of PLUM BUN, this is to say that I just bought and started reading THE CHINABERRY TREE, the novel Jessie Fauset wrote next after PLUM BUN. I think the flaws we detected in PLUM BUN were common mistakes young writers often make, especially if they are not working with experienced editors. I want to see how much Fauset developed as a novelist between the two books. When I finish reading THE CHINABERRY TREE, if I can find the time, I will share with you what I learned. Will Gibson
Novelist
http://www.amazon.com/Will-Gibson/e/B...
Mod
Janet, thanks so much for leading the first half of the discussion!
Thanks to everyone who participated (and those who wanted to) in the discussion of Plum Bun and this prolific writer of the Harlem Renaissance. We'll keep the thread open and alive for those who want to comment on Angela and the others. Thanks again, everyone!
Late to the party but wanted to add my observations. I too enjoyed "Plum Bun". I had never heard of Fauset and wouldn't have read it had it not been a selection within this wonderful group. I tend to agree w/ most of the comments above and I too was more struck by the feminism than the actual passing. In what is a dramatic departure for me from the way that I generally read books, I found myself more taken by the author (the way she told the story) and the time period that the book was written, than the actual story line. The book struck me as overly erudite, like the author was trying to prove her intelligence. A lot of big words that seemed a bit like showing off or swagger. If I hadn't been on my kindle, I'd have been spending a lot of time with the dictionary. All of that led me to think of this as a time capsule view w/ this author fighting to gain respect and credibility not only as a woman, but as a woman of color and an intellectual in a very male dominated realm.
Monica wrote: " The book struck me as overly erudite, like the author was trying to prove her intelligence. A lot of big words that seemed a bit like showing off or swagger. If I hadn't been on my kindle, I'd have been spending a lot of time with the dictionary."I'm with you on the vocabulary, Monica. Thanks goodness for Kindle. I learned words I never knew, and probably won't be using again, but I learned something new.
wonder, too, if it had to do with proving herself as a woman writer, although that feels far-fetched. at any rate, very grateful to the group, as ever, for the selection and to everyone for more learning and thinking.thanks
Janet said: wonder, too, if it had to do with proving herself as a woman writer, although that feels far-fetched.Well, I can't get into the mind of Fauset during that time period and I will be the first to say, I haven't read much Harlem Renaissance by anyone, male or female so I really can't say as to the style. I was merely posting my musings. IMO, on the whole this novel was the equivalent of dime store, paperback romance with the exception of the complex vocabulary. I was much more intrigued by why the author decided to express herself the way she did. I've read some Mark Twain and Charles Dickens (examples provided because of age, not similarity in context of the book etc) and they were not nearly as difficult (again vocabulary) to read. Is it the author, the style of writing during that period or something else entirely? My interpretation from my limited knowledge and background was that perhaps the author was trying to prove something. Don't know, but I certainly welcome other opinions ;-)
Mod
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gr...
A lady with issues it would seem. it also seems from the article she tried being white for some time but it wasn't working for her, in terms of career choices. A Black Like Me story for the 21st century?
Mod
Thanks for bringing attention to the article, Columbus. This is definitely a complex topic!
Columbus wrote: "Damn, George. I was honestly gonna call you out directly with a quote but you telepathically.....,yes, it's just all so weird, eerie, strange, bizarre, disturbing?"disturbing indeed, but I remain curious as to what the quote would have been.
Mod
disturbing ind..."
A comment I should have said.
It all then gets into that sticky cultural/racial appropriation and the fine line between it and appreciation. This story just takes it that much further.
The Atlantic has a nice article about the history of passing for black and the Jazz example is quite interesting:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/a...
yes, very sticky. Made me think a bit of Zellig with Woody Allen. running off to Spokane to be black is an interesting choice. how many black people can there be in Spokane? perhaps it was easier to keep up the ruse there. I see she teaches courses there as well. It would be interesting to be in her next class.
I see this morning she has lost her teaching gig as well as some free lance journalist spot. ah well. outed by her own parents, who seem to have adopted 4 black kids. maybe she was just looking for love.
Mod
well, there's so much material out there now and I feel certain there is more to come. maybe we should call this woman Dumb Bun. I also see she sued Howard University for being discriminated against as a white person.It would have been interesting to see one of the light complexioned characters in Plum Bun pretendng to be a white person experimenting with being black.
As for French phrases, there are plenty of rude words and expressions in that language she might have reverted to. however, Ms Fauset seems to have been a bit more refined than I am.
I see she's now asserting that there is no "biological proof" that her parents are in fact her parents. So, the story continues to slide off into absurdities. I wonder where it will bottom out?But I hope her 15 minutes ends soon.
Mod
B..."
Yes, her time is over-extended and she now needs to just go away. Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen if it's true she's now shopping a reality show.
Thought she would be embarrassed about this by now but she actually seems to be enjoying this. No, our protagonist Angela Murray would NEVER let it get this far. Much too sophisticated.
probably she just needs a paycheck now. gotta pay the rent. maybe she could do some sort of commentary thing on Fox with Sarah Palin. Point-Counterpoint.
and yes, I prefer Angela as well.
This is from today's Salon.com and very relevant to the Plum Bun discussion, believe it or not. Hard to imagine it wasn't well known to the author at the time.What does it mean to be white?: Dylann Roof, Rachel Dolezal and the ugly legacy of the Rhinelander case
94 years after a watershed case on race, we're still interrogating blackness. It's time to ask the same of whites
AUDREY ELISA KERR
In 1921, Kip Rhinelander, the 21-year-old son of wealthy New York socialites, fell in love with Alice Jones, a domestic worker in New Rochelle, New York, and their closeted, three-year romance culminated in a secret marriage. When news of the matrimony was leaked to the society pages of New York newspapers, reporters began to investigate Alice Jones’ lineage, and they discovered that she was part black.
In an attempt to annul the marriage, a complaint was filed against Alice Jones by Kip Rhinelander alleging deception, however, during the trial, Jones’ counsel argued that – given the length of their romantic courtship and marriage – Rhinelander had innumerable opportunities to observe telltale signs of Jones’ “blackness.”
In what was to become one of the most notorious and troubling parts of this widely publicized trial, Jones’ own attorney forced her to disrobe entirely before an audience of jurors, attorneys and the judge, who were invited to examine her seeking proof of her blackness.
The Rhinelander case is an illustration of the continuum of public humiliation and arrested agency of black bodies, originating in the voyeurism of the slave auction, then growing roots in the killing and banishment of black bodies during the Great Migration, and reaching maturation in our ahistorical relationship to race in our post-civil rights era. The “spectacle” of race-based cases in the news — the grand gesture of demarcating the meaning of blackness — becomes a mechanism to affirm that there is no place, and no existing language, to debate the meaning of whiteness. The Rhinelander case was not just an effort to “re-purify” the Rhinelander dynasty; it also served to warn others of the consequence of abandoning their designated place in the more consistently defined category of “blackness.”
and the article goes on....
Literary Fiction by People of Color
Books mentioned in this topic
Passing (other topics)The Autobiography of an Ex-colored Man (other topics)
Sweeter the Juice: A Family Memoir in Black and White (other topics)
A Chosen Exile: A History of Racial Passing in America (other topics)
A Chosen Exile: A History of Racial Passing in America (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Jessie Redmon Fauset (other topics)Nella Larsen (other topics)
James Weldon Johnson (other topics)
Shirlee Taylor Haizlip (other topics)
Allyson Hobbs (other topics)
More...
just googled one of the speakers, Allyson Hobbs, who wrote about not only what is gained, but certainly what was lost when people passed. (http://www.allysonhobbs.com/talks-and...). Another friend, and people at the conference, also comment on how passing affected their own families as well. As Columbus had commented, it's a very under-researched topic. As I'd said, too, it was informal (an un-conference) but serious in conversation, questions and information.
I'm grateful that we're reading and discussing Plum Bun now.
How are others getting on?