Valar Morghulis--Valar Dohaeris discussion
Game of Thrones (TV series)
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TV Series Passing the Books?
I'm more concerned about how much they are changing. no Aegon and Jamie is going to Dorn? Something's really wrong with that.
I can understand no Aegon because that's a really self-contained story and so easily excised. I can also sort of understand Jaime going to Dorne because he doesn't have a lot to do now except roam the countryside, doing the right thing (if I remember his AFFC story).I'm still burned about Arianne no longer being the heir to the Dorne throne, if that's even happening. not sure if it is because I didn't read the article - mainly because the Arianne topic really agitates me as that decision is rife with the weird sexism that has often been an undercurrent to the otherwise excellent show.
Couldn't find the article in the link, Chris.
great, kirimvose!Hmm recently there is an article on George saying that there would be non-canon deaths in the series so....
Well, I think we definitely need to treat the show as a different animal. You can just watch the show and don't get spoiled since they are clearly heading to different direction(s).
I will just reread about Arianne and Aegon and try to fancast them myself :p
Silvana wrote: "great, kirimvose!Hmm recently there is an article on George saying that there would be non-canon deaths in the series so....
Well, I think we definitely need to treat the show as a different ani..."
Here's the link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02...
One thing I like about both the series and the books is they are similar in the important things but different in the details such that you can really enjoy both and be surprised. So I think even if the show passes the books it will still be enjoyable to read them when they finally are published.
Well, Arianne is a great, flawed and still developing character. Casting her alone and leave two Sand Snakes (Nym should still be cast as she was the one replacing her dad in the council) and omitting Trystane won't destroy the show.
Since GoT has strayed far from the books, who else do you think would die in season 5 that is still alive in the books? I think Greyworm will die since they made him and Missandei tragic star-crossed lovers.
Our biggest (?) fear is confirmed. The show will spoil the books. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ent...
Looking at the casting I think it is safe to assume that the FAegon theory is valid, Martell-Targ Alliance won't happen (no Aegon, no Arianne) and we're not going to see more Greyjoys, Kingsmoot, Euron's horn, etc.
But at least we got spared from the boring Tyrion and Quentyn's journeys.
Season 5 probably gonna end with the Battle of Meereen. Episode 9 obviously.
Thoughts?
sounds reasonable so far. A massive battle would be a good finale, but I think they finish the very last episode with (SPOILER!) Jon's death. He gets stabbed and poof, black screen, roll credits. Would match the concept *cough* Red Wedding *cough*Regarding divergence books/show: I personally think the show will drift off of the books on a larger scale than before to prevent loosing the readers of the books. As many already have said here, if they ignore the whole Aegon plot and Jaime goes to Dorne etc etc, the show gets a whole new "drive" which will have just a very loose connection to the plot George has planned. But still, they will spoil TWoW and, if they continue at this speed, even parts of ADoS: If we are veeery lucky, TWoW will be released next year, with season six already wrapped up. If George needs let's say three years for ADoS (which would be very optimistic) the show is over. As they have said, D&D know the ending as George has planned it....I have the feeling they will use it for the show and won't come up with another one. So fans who want to read the books first are screwed.
Indeed. The show will be over in 2017 or 2018. TWoW may be published next year. ADoS might come out... Who knows. The span of time in between ADoS and the show ending is too long for book readers to avoid spoilers even if they are not watching the show. Unless we stop using the internet and don't go hanging out with people who watches the show haha
Well George has admitted some fans have figured out the ending. We don't which ending theory is the correct one ... Many people probably know of the theory whichever one it turns out to be so this probably lessens any surprise in the ending. I'm in favor of trimming the TV series so it doesn't include some of the Greyjoy, Jamie (riverlands) and Dorn story lines. I generally prefer more drift so the TV show and books can be enjoyed in either order.Do we know for sure if the TV show is going to be 7 or 8 seasons? I think either way the show will be finish before George releases ADoS.
They could stretch it out to 12 years and still finish before GRRM does.
Yes, D&D stated in an interview that they won't produce more than 8 seasons (found it on IGN some time ago, but I have no idea where). But who knows, this show is basically a money machine.In any way, they will be done when ADoS is released, but hypothetically, who would read it then? I love the books and everything and I would read it anyway, but speaking of "casual" readers who aren't completely crazy about the literary format will break away because they wouldn't see a point in reading the story any further because they already know the ending...and even as a lover of the books, you can't deny it would ruin a great deal of the reading experience.
I guess it wouldn't be too hard to skip watching the tv show until after books are published. HBO allows the shows to be watched on demand in the HBOGO so just wait.
Not disputing any of that...I do think his book will sell millions though, regardless. How many copies of The Wit & Wisdom of Tyrion Lannister sold?I know a lot of people will be disappointed by all of this. But if GRRM himself isn't going to finish his work before it's adapted, whose fault is that? He (supposedly) gave them the ending. He agreed to let them film it. And he is repackaging old stuff to cash in on his fame while stubbornly holding out on the new books. And don't call him on it, or he'll flip you the bird.
yeah, true. It kind of makes me angry, though (stupid, I know...). My dad has the theory that George is either in a terrible writing slump or just pissed of by his own story so he simply doesn't want to finish it/has no motivation to get it done as soon as possible, so that he just lets the show do the work for him. He's got a point, to be honest, but I really hope it's not the case
I don't know that he's letting the show write the book for him. I think he's simply showing everyone that he will finish and release it when he's good and ready, everything/everyone else be damned.I've always supported his taking his time to get it right, but that last couple of years I've seen his "Take my ball and go home" attitude towards fans. Of course I want the best story possible, and it's worth the wait if it is. But this whole spoiled brat attitude is getting old.
Which is actually why I'm surprised he'd let D&D have the ending and air it on the show before the last two books come out. This is the guy that said he would absolutely take the ending to his grave if he died before he finished, and not allow someone to finish it for him.
He said that? Well I guess he allows AU to exist but he won't let 'creative interpretation' to go too far as well. I read the first book after watching the first half of the first season but it still gave me the satisfaction. After all, books offer better experience. So, like Thranduil said, I can wait.
Actually there is a way HBO could cash in from ASOIAF i.e. Making miniseries from already available material such as Dunk and Egg, TPATQ and Rogue Prince. Or any scene from TWoIAF. But I don't know the extent of George's contract with them, whether it includes the whole ASOIAF universe or just the main series
Martin's alternative to not telling D&D the ending would be for them to make one up. I don't think there is anyway HBO would put the show on how for several years. HBO probably doesn't even care if the adaptation overtakes the books or not.
Silvana wrote: "He said that? Well I guess he allows AU to exist but he won't let 'creative interpretation' to go too far as well. I read the first book after watching the first half of the first season but it s..."
I don't have the actual quote, but he was asked about that after Robert Jordan died and left notes for his series to be completed. Martin pretty much said he'd finish it or no one would.
The difference is that jordan had written an ending but not the whole last book. Do Sanderson wrote the last book (actually 3 books) that incorporated Jordan's ending.
I will definitely still read the books after I watch all the seasons on HBO. I think true, obsessed fans (like myself) who love his writing style and the teeny tiny details of each character will still buy and read and GRRM knows that. So, he doesn't care if the shows pass him. I am already SO pumped for this season. I am an addict and I need me an ASOIAF fix!
Oh, definitely Maureen. On both counts. That is, I'll read the books (and re-read them) for sure. And that I'm pumped for the new season.
I have a question for you Chris: I have only read the 5 main books in the series. I have been hesitant to read any of the other stories because I was just holding out for WoW. ANNNND now I'm officially impatient. What would be a good "starter" for some of GRRM's stories/books about ASOIAF? I have tried to read the threads discussing some of them and just get overwhelmed. If you have any suggestions on what to start on that would be great!
Definitely "The Hedge Knight", which is a story you can find in Legends or Dreamsongs Volume II. I think you can also find the ebook for the story itself.It's actually what I read that got me hooked on GRRM, and made me go out and buy A Game of Thrones.
I'm sorry for meddling, but I agree, The Hedge Knight is probably the best story for someone who wants to read more about ASOIAF outside of the main saga.There's gonna be an edition with the three stories of Dunk & Egg. I think it's called A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.
And I know, I know. It's like The wit and wisdom of Tyrion Lannister, probably just a filler to make some money and distract some people from the absence of The Winds of Winter. But, still, just wanted to mention it.
I only have the graphic novels from the first two and The Mystery Knight in Warriors, but I've found an amateur compilation of the three Dunk&Egg stories in ebook format and have that in my Kindle too.
Also, I think The World of Ice & Fire: The Untold History of Westeros and the Game of Thrones is also a really good book for filling the absence of ASOIAF. It doesn't have the dynamic of a more personal story like the other ones, since it's more like an encyclopedia, but for someone obsessed with Westeros as me, it turned out to be a gold mine.
The only thing I haven't dared to read yet are the sample chapters of Winds...
Thank you both!You haven't read the sample chapters?! I dropped everything and read those as soon as I saw them! I will start with The Hedge Knight and then go with your rec's Remy. There was just so many out there that I didn't know where to start.
The show will satisfy part of my craving for more, but I want a good book right now too.
On another note, are there supposed to be 8 seasons in the TV show? So, 2017 the show is done and GRRM will only have WoW out. THE WAITING AND ANTICIPATING IS KILLING ME.
Actually, after The Hedge Knight, you'll probably want to read The Sworn Sword and The Mystery Knight, those are the rest of the Dunk & Egg stories. And then, yeah, The World of Ice and Fire. But whatever, they're all great. Also, The World is one of the most beautiful books I've ever seen... and I've seen some really beautifully designed and illustrated books, but this one is just... wow.And no, I've only read Theon's chapter from Winds, but I just couldn't read the others. I feel they'll only feed my anxiety. Still, I know I'll end up reading them eventually.
I don't even know how many are there. Theon, Arianne, Arya, Tyrion... Am I forgetting someone?
There will be at least six to twelve Dunk and Egg novellas. I will definitely going to buy the three-in-one edition (Knight of the Seven Kingdoms) although I already have the graphic novels. And of course, The World of Ice and Fire is an amazing collectible item.
I'll get A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms too. I've always wanted them all in one book, and it's illustrated. Plus it's getting close to time for a reread of those.
Well I love the books but I can't wait until season 5 starts on HBO. I wish George would finish the books. At the same I want them to be perfect. So hopefully this is like fine wine wait a bit more until it reaches perfection.
I know what you mean. I don't want him to rush but I am getting impatient for more great story! I am optimistic he might have them done by the end of the year (fingers crossed)! I am going to start watching season 4 again tonight so I'm allllll ready for April 12th!
Remy wrote: "Actually, after The Hedge Knight, you'll probably want to read The Sworn Sword and The Mystery Knight, those are the rest of the Dunk & Egg stories. And then, yeah, The World of Ice and Fire. But w..."Remy,
The sample chapters that have been released from TWOW are actually just excerpts from the chapters, and they don't give too much away. On the app, there are excerpts from chapters from Barristan, Tyrion, Mercy, Theon, and Arianne. There is also a video of GRRM reading an excerpt from Victarion, which was awesome! Like most of you, I'm dying to get my hands on a new ASOIAF book, but the excerpts are a good read, without getting too into it, or spoiling anything. But until then, .... C'mon April 12!!
I agree that The World of Ice and Fire is a great read. Not a novel, but it's like reading a history book that doesn't suck. lolIf you like that, I'd also recommend "The Princess and the Queen" from Dangerous Women.
Actually, my problem is not with spoilers. I just... I don't know, I feel like if I read them all, the wait for Winds will be harder.Whatever, I still know I'm gonna read them eventually. I have them all, except the one about Barristan.
Also, now that you mention it, Amie, I've heard George's read of Victarion's excerpt too. It was really cool, specially hearing it from him.
Chris, I recently bought Warriors, Dangerous Women and Rogues. I think I'll be reading GRRM's stories there first and then the rest. Did you read The Rogue Prince? What did you think of it?
I haven't read "The Rogue Prince" yet, though I recently got a copy of Rogues..As far as the story in Warriors, you'll want to read "The Hedge Knight" and "The Sworn Sword" before "The Mystery Knight". That's the third in the series.
I was holding out too on reading WoW sample chapters, but it was a GREAT distration one afternoon after a stressful morning at work :)
Hi everyone. I am a huge fan of the series and I most recently started to read the books. However, I have no idea whether or not the books are at the same pace as the series. Is Book 1 season 1? Which book do I need to get to in order to get past season 4? I want to put watching the series on hold so I can experience the story on my own terms. Thanks!
Hi Tiandra....Season 1 matches up with Book 1 pretty well. Then Season 2 does the same for Book 2. After that it gets more tricky. Season 3 roughly makes up the first half to 2/3 of Book 3, which wraps up in Season 4. Though even there you see pieces of Books 4 and 5.
I think there is still a little of book 3 still to go.
Thanks Chris. I can't wait to catch up, the books are really long.
I thought it would take me forever to read the books, but honestly, I can't put them down. I think I read books 4 and 5 combined http://boiledleather.com/post/2590255... in about 3 weeks, and I had thought it would take about 2 months. I'm reading the Hedge Knight now, just started.Anyone read the new Alayne chapter yet?
George R.R. Martin Is Developing A New HBO Show Called Captain Cosmos! http://t.co/Stpm6szFcbI was glad that he dropped writing for GoT but now he's developing a new series??? I am a GRRM apologist but this news really disappoints me.
Valar Morghulis--Valar Dohaeris
Books mentioned in this topic
Warriors (other topics)Dangerous Women (other topics)
Rogues (other topics)
Dangerous Women (other topics)
A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms (other topics)
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It's pretty funny in spots, but spot on true in most. Kind of disheartening, but I don't think it should come as a shock to anyone.