The Black Veil (hosted by Connie) - 1st Summer Read 2021

[[deleted user]]

Connie wrote: "Did Dickens have cute nicknames for his children and close friends?"

Off the top of my head, I can think of a few nicknames he gave his children - I think his daughter Kate was "Lucifer box", he called one of his sons "Chickenstalker" and another "Plorn".

Somewhere in the group, maybe last week, Jean posted information about the Chickenstalker son.

Can't think of nicknames for friends but there may have been.

[Connie]

"THE BLACK VEIL" SUMMARY

A young surgeon who recently established a business was seated by a fire listening to the hard wind and cold, driving rain. It was a winter night around the year 1800, and he was dreaming about an upcoming Christmas visit to his hometown. He was hoping to be able to tell his sweetheart, Rose, that a patient had finally come to his new business.

He was awakened by the young boy he had employed. The boy seemed very alarmed as he pointed out the visitor--a tall woman in deep mourning, wrapped in a black shawl with her face covered by a thick black veil.

The surgeon inquired if she were ill, and she said that she was only ill mentally. She has come for a man who will soon be in his grave. "Tomorrow morning he of whom I speak will be, I know, though I would fain think otherwise, beyond the reach of human aid; and yet, tonight, though he is in deadly peril, you must not see, and could not serve him." The surgeon wanted to render assistance that night since the patient was so ill, but she refused his help until the morning at 9:00. His visitor gave him directions to a house in Walworth.

The back part of Walworth was a miserable, impoverished place, and the medical practitioner had to walk through marshy areas full of mud, decay, and neglect. He was hesitant to knock on the door when he found the house because the area was notorious for depraved, desperate characters. He found the courage to use the knocker, and a man led him to a small parlour where he was told to wait for a few minutes. He heard a vehicle stop outside, followed by some men carrying something heavy up the stairs to the room above the parlour.

DON'T READ ON UNLESS YOU HAVE READ THE WHOLE STORY!

The door opened and the woman with the black veil motioned him to come with her. She was sobbing as she led him to the room where a stiff motionless form lay on a bed. The surgeon exclaimed that the man was dead, but the woman begged him to restore the corpse to life. "Men have been brought to life, before, when unskillful people have given them up for lost; and men have died, who might have been restored, if proper means had been resorted to. Don't let him lie here, sir, without one effort to save him!"

The surgeon tore open the curtain to see the man better. "The throat was swollen and a livid mark encircled it. The truth flashed suddenly upon him." He realized that the victim was one of the men who was hanged that morning.

It was the woman's son! She was a widow without friends or money who had denied her needs to raise her son. He had turned to a life of crime and had been sentenced to death. His distraught mother had descended into madness in her grief.

The surgeon, who became successful in his profession, never forgot the woman in the black veil. He paid her daily visits and helped support her financially. The woman's prayers for him flew to Heaven, and the surgeon's goodness has been repaid in many heavenly blessings.

[Connie]

GOTHIC ELEMENTS

The Black Veil contains many Gothic elements. This is a general list of elements used in Gothic literature. They give a sense of the genre, but don't all pertain to Dickens or The Black Veil:

1. Mystery and fear
2. Foreshadowing using visions, omens, curses, and names
3. Atmosphere and setting contributing to fear and uneasiness
4. Supernatural and paranormal activity
5. Romance
6. Villains including good/evil doubles
7. Emotional distress and madness
8. Nightmares and dreams demonstrating character's emotions
9. Anti-hero, a flawed protagonist
10. Damsels in distress, often powerless, sad, oppressed, and lonely.

[Connie]

DICKENS AND THE GOTHIC

Early Gothic works often had a medieval setting, such as in Horace Walpole's The Castle of Otranto (1764), Ann Radcliffe's The Mysteries of Udolpho (1794), and Matthew Lewis' The Monk (1796). Dickens read Gothic works when he was a teenager.

Dickens used Gothic elements in some of his works. Some of his Gothic stories were set in haunted mansions and graveyards. But others, like The Black Veil, were set in a contemporary, urban setting. This gave Dickens the opportunity to highlight contemporary social problems while still writing an entertaining story or novel.

Dickens draws on reality and a recognizable environment, then uses Gothic elements to create fear and terror. The reader has a feeling of dread and heightened emotions, and will feel more sympathy toward those suffering from terrible social conditions. Their emotions prompt the reader to look at people living under deplorable conditions with fresh eyes and greater awareness.

The Black Veil is an urban, melodramatic Gothic tale of horror and mystery. Since we have two weeks to talk about the story, let's start with the night scene in the surgeon's office when he is visited by the woman in the black veil.

What are your thoughts and observations about the characters and atmosphere, etc in the night scene?

(I'm posting a little early because my daughter's family is getting a new roof on their house tomorrow. So they will be in and out of my house all day. I guess it's already June in England.)

[Connie]

Cozy_Pug wrote: "Connie wrote: "Did Dickens have cute nicknames for his children and close friends?"

Off the top of my head, I can think of a few nicknames he gave his children - I think his daughter Kate was "Luc..."

Thanks, Cozy Pug. "Lucifer box" sounds ominous!

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Diane - you're very welcome :)

Anne - yes!

Connie - I'll have a think ... that might make a good quiz some time!

[Diane]

That first scene set the stage for us to see the difference in the Doctor's cozy and privileged life (even though he had no patients as of yet), and the poverty stricken neighborhood he visits the next day. He was warm and well fed, with the boy as a servant of sorts. Then the mysterious woman in the veil enters the picture and changes the atmosphere to one of dread and foreboding.

[Sara]

This is the first time I have been able to clearly see Poe's influence on Dickens. The way the story is woven, with the macabre twist at the end, is very Poe-like.

[Lori]

Dickens’ choice of words to set up the beginning scene are perfect. It’s late at night and December so it’s very cold. I noted the difference in the “cheerful fire” and the “dismal rumbling in the chimney”. The doctor is thinking about how comfortable he is inside his home thinking about his upcoming trip and his girl. So he is in a quite dreamy place when the lady appears with her black veil. Dickens is slowly building up the scene to a spookier place. Describing that there was a hand on his shoulder, the boy’s expression of alarm. The way Dickens describes the shawl and veil of woman as if purposely concealed and how she’s motionless. I was drawn in from the beginning.

[Connie]

Diane wrote: "That first scene set the stage for us to see the difference in the Doctor's cozy and privileged life (even though he had no patients as of yet), and the poverty stricken neighborhood he visits the ..."

Very true, Diane. There is a contrast of social classes. We wonder why the woman is dressed that way.

[Connie]

Sara wrote: "This is the first time I have been able to clearly see Poe's influence on Dickens. The way the story is woven, with the macabre twist at the end, is very Poe-like."

That was my reaction when I read the story too!

[Connie]

Lori wrote: "Dickens’ choice of words to set up the beginning scene are perfect. It’s late at night and December so it’s very cold. I noted the difference in the “cheerful fire” and the “dismal rumbling in the ..."

Yes, it's very atmospheric in the start of the story. The boy is used by Dickens to contribute to the dread. When he acts alarmed and scared, it makes us feel afraid too. I had to laugh when he put his eye to the keyhole because he was so curious about the woman in the black veil--and we are wondering about her too!

[Antoinette]

I agree I loved how he set up the beginning, wth the dark, the surgeon dozing by the fire to be startled awake by a hand and then to encounter his first patient-a woman in a black veil. Was anyone else reminded of Scrooge and the first encounter with a ghost? It’s amazing how he could make us feel that sense of dread so quickly.

[Petra]

This was the first time that I've read a Dickens story and could see the social issues he is so against in his writings. I thank this group for this insight and opening my eyes on Dickens (the person) and his fight for some justice for the poor.

I also found it a contrast between the Doctor's comfort & his thoughts of a warm, comfortable, loving life and the dismal surroundings he is in. It makes it appear that he is in a pocket of of riches in the middle of non-riches (storms & rumblings).
At the same time, he seems unaware of what surrounds him and dreaming about the goodness in his life.

The woman is a bit eerie.
Antoinette, I hadn't thought about it but it is a bit of a Scrooge-like beginning to the story.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Yes, I was Antoinette :) And also of The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain. Both of these are later works of course, but for a while I did wonder if it was a spectre, as the black was so dense. (It is in the illustration too.) Then, like the narrator, I wondered if it was a man.

The boy looking through the keyhole was so funny, I agree :) And very Dickensian. He often uses this image ... in David Copperfield for instance he uses it twice! And he seems to include a this perky young lad like this one in nearly all his stories. Again from one of our group reads, Dombey and Son he is a little like Biler, isn't he :)

It's fascinating to think that this was the first time he will have used these ideas and impressions. He really was feeling his way in the Sketches, and even apologises for any youthful clumsiness, in the introduction! But I think this story is as good as some he wrote later.

Fantastic information thanks, Connie, and I have linked to your summary (and subsequent commentary) from comment 1. I'm sure it will all prove useful.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

I'll be joining in, too, Connie and Jean. Thank you!

[Connie]

Antoinette wrote: "I agree I loved how he set up the beginning, wth the dark, the surgeon dozing by the fire to be startled awake by a hand and then to encounter his first patient-a woman in a black veil. Was anyone ..."

I hadn't thought of Scrooge being awakened by the ghost, but that's a great thought, Antoinette.

[Connie]

Petra wrote: "This was the first time that I've read a Dickens story and could see the social issues he is so against in his writings. I thank this group for this insight and opening my eyes on Dickens (the pers..."

Petra, lots of good ideas. Dreaming is a Gothic element for an author to let us know about what's important to a character emotionally.

[Connie]

Bionic Jean wrote: "Yes, I was Antoinette :) And also of The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain. Both of these are later works of course, but for a while I did wonder if it was a spectre, as the black..."

Jean, I'm amazed that he was only about 24 when Sketches by Boz was published, and even younger when the first Sketches were written. What a natural talent! He didn't have the benefit of getting a MFA in those days--but maybe that's a good thing because the professors may have changed him.

[Connie]

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "I'll be joining in, too, Connie and Jean. Thank you!"

We're glad you'll be reading along with us, Shirley!

[Bridget]

I was struck by the description of the lady with the black veil as being very tall, which made her seem ghostlike or spectral to me.
And reminded me of the ghost of the future that Scrooge meets. I also wondered from the beginning whether she was insane, and I was impressed with the young doctor that he wanted to follow her instructions anyway. It would be easy to just ignore the insane - or lock them away.

[Anne]

It is truly fascinating to see young Dickens' first works. I knew that there was going to be something surprising about the veil or why it was being worn. But the surprise was very different from what I expected. Dickens was practicing the use of misdirection and did a very good job. He led me to focus so much on the veil (even the title is "The Veil." I was sure there was something ghastly under the veil. The ordinary fact that the woman was a widow never occurred to me because of Dickens' misdirection and all of the gothic elements.

The "unveiling" of the truth a came at the same time that the woman took off her veil.

[Connie]

Bridget wrote: "I was struck by the description of the lady with the black veil as being very tall, which made her seem ghostlike or spectral to me.
And reminded me of the ghost of the future that Scrooge meets...."

I found the woman with the black veil to be scary and mysterious. That's a good thought that her height added to the feeling of a ghost. She said that she was feeling ill mentally, and she seemed confused when she talked about the man who needed treatment. The kind way the surgeon treated her shows us what type of person he is.

[Connie]

Anne (On semi-hiatus) wrote: "It is truly fascinating to see young Dickens' first works. I knew that there was going to be something surprising about the veil or why it was being worn. But the surprise was very different from w..."

Anne, I loved it when the surgeon said he could feel the eyes staring at him from under the veil, even though he couldn't see her eyes. Very spooky!

Was she dressed in mourning clothes because she was a widow, or because she was already mourning the expected death of the "patient"? Or maybe both.

[Anne]

Connie, I thought the patient was already dead which is why the woman is wearing a veil. But she comes to the doctor because she can't tolerate that he is dead, goes into denial about it and wants him to "do something (supernatural?) before it's too late."

This made me think of Dickens' mesmerism which comes much later in his life.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Anne (On semi-hiatus) wrote: "The "unveiling" of the truth a came at the same time that the woman took off her veil ..."

I do like this :) And the reference to Memerism. It's all there, the life Charles Dickens had to come.

Connie - What on earth is an MFA, please?

[Anne]

I know you asked Connie, but I'll just tell you . An MFA is a Masters in Fine Arts.

[Debra Diggs]

Hi everyone. I would like to join in too :)

I enjoyed the night scene. I immediately had a good feeling about the doctor because of how kind he was to woman in the black veil. I loved the boy looking through the keyhole. As for the woman, my first thoughts were that she was a vampire or some type of ghost. Whatever she was up to, I did not trust her at all.

The cozy fireplace made me feel comfortable, then....the woman in the black veil shows up. Uh oh.

[[deleted user]]

This story definitely has a gothic feel, which is fun. I've read Walpole and Radcliffe - kind of melodramatic but a fun genre.

This story has a classic beginning - it was a dark and stormy night type of feel. Not stormy, but rainy, cold, and muddy. A good night to be by a cozy fire, dreaming of your true love.

I love the atmosphere Dickens' set up from the very start, and his young assistant peering through the keyhole was amusing and a "catch your breath" moment before we get back to the strange visitor.

[Debra Diggs]

Connie wrote: ".....Was she dressed in mourning clothes because she was a widow, or because she was already mourning the expected death of the "patient"? Or maybe both."

Connie, I thought she was in morning clothes because of the expected death of the "patient". I had the impression that she was widowed a long, long time ago. But I could be wrong there.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Ah, thanks Anne.

If Charles Dickens had had the opportunity, which he didn't, then he would have gone to university and obtained a B.A. Oxon (3 year undergraduate honours course at Oxford or Cambridge). These were the main universities in the 19th century. It would probably have been followed by an M.A. or Ph D. (Doctorate) although I can't positively find out the higher degrees which existed during his life.

Connie - I think you're absolutely right that his writing would have been very different! Several critics have said so, either in an approving or disapproving way.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

A reminder that Connie asked us:

"let's start with the night scene in the surgeon's office when he is visited by the woman in the black veil." before we move on.

[Connie]

Debra Digs wrote: "Hi everyone. I would like to join in too :)

I enjoyed the night scene. I immediately had a good feeling about the doctor because of how kind he was to woman in the black veil. I loved the boy loo..."

I'm happy you're reading with us, Debra. I guess we were all wondering who or what was under that black veil.

[Connie]

Cozy Pug, I also wondered if the surgeon was being directed to a place where he would be attacked. The whole situation seemed so strange.

[[deleted user]]

Connie wrote: "Cozy Pug, I also wondered if the surgeon was being directed to a place where he would be attacked. The whole situation seemed so strange."

Sorry Connie - I misunderstood the discussion cue and posted my thoughts on the whole story. I edited my post to stick with the beginning.

[Connie]

Cozy_Pug wrote: "Connie wrote: "Cozy Pug, I also wondered if the surgeon was being directed to a place where he would be attacked. The whole situation seemed so strange."

Sorry Connie - I misunderstood the discuss..."

No problem, Cozy Pug. You had some good thoughts.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

And we've got some tempting teasers of what is to come from you too, Cozy_Pug :)

[Sue]

I too see a resemblance to A Christmas Carol in the opening of this story. The relative darkness of the room, in spite of the fire, the night time setting, the somewhat androgynous visitor. Jean, I also wondered if it might be a man disguised as a woman, especially as the huskiness of her voice was mentioned a few times. Everything was set up beautifully to be mysterious and also to show us a young doctor who appears to be a worthy man. We really know so little about this woman from the first scene. The doctor is taking everything on trust.

I also thought that the woman was (or Dickens was) using word play and was expecting someone to be dead in the morning.

[Connie]

Sue wrote: "I too see a resemblance to A Christmas Carol in the opening of this story. The relative darkness of the room, in spite of the fire, the night time setting, the somewhat androgynous visitor. Jean, I..."

In some ways the doctor has two patients since the woman is displaying so much anxiety. I wonder if he agreed to come out to see the man for her sake as much as for the dying man. As you wrote, Sue, the doctor is a worthy man.

[Antoinette]

What I admired about that doctor right away, is he said yes to her with no reservation. He was not concerned about her class and did not question whether she could pay him. Doctors were often just for the wealthy in those days. It’s amazing how much we learn just in that opening section.

[Sara]

I agree, Connie, that the doctor agrees to see the patient as much on behalf of the woman as the patient himself. There is a great mystery around the request the woman makes that he come in the morning, although the patient is surely to be dead by morning. Like Sue, I thought the woman was projecting the death, not guaranteeing it, and I could think of no explanation of why the doctor would not be allowed to see the patient immediately.

It did not occur to me that the person might be a man, but there is a sense of foreboding that is very strong, and as often is the case with Dickens, I found myself wanting to warn the doctor not to go.

[Kathleen]

The Black Veil does not feel like a story written almost two hundred years ago. I enjoyed how he sets up his story. I think we would focus on the veil even if the title had not highlighted it.

As Sara mentioned, the beginning feels like a Poe story. Is he mimicking Poe? He and Poe are writing at the same time. Poe is only 3 years older than Dickens.

[Connie]

Antoinette wrote: "What I admired about that doctor right away, is he said yes to her with no reservation. He was not concerned about her class and did not question whether she could pay him. Doctors were often just ..."

Good point, Antoinette. Very often the poor people had to depend on a neighbor who was a herbalist, and they might pay with something from their garden. Sometimes the herbalist's methods worked as well as the doctor's treatment.

[Connie]

Sara wrote: "I agree, Connie, that the doctor agrees to see the patient as much on behalf of the woman as the patient himself. There is a great mystery around the request the woman makes that he come in the mor..."

I also had a feeling of dread about the doctor going into such an unknown situation.

[Connie]

Kathleen wrote: "The Black Veil does not feel like a story written almost two hundred years ago. I enjoyed how he sets up his story. I think we would focus on the veil even if the title had not highlighted it.

As ..."

Edgar Allen Poe lived from 1809-1849. Most of his well-known short stories of horror were published in the 1840s. Dicken's The Black Veil was published in 1836. Maybe they were both influenced by the earlier British Gothic writers. Since Poe is American, he might have been influenced by American Nathaniel Hawthorne, but that is just speculation. (I'm trying to remember the classics we read in high school !)

This is a timeline of Poe's life and major works:

https://www.poemuseum.org/poes-works-...

[Sara]

I had simply remembered that they were friends (and I thought unlikely ones, but this story makes me think they had more in common in their writing than I had realized). Of course, I was not considering how early this story was in Dickens' career, so it is unlikely that Poe had any actual influence on it at all. In any case, Poe came to my mind immediately as the story unwound. That dark sense of place in the introduction and the mysterious demeanor of the woman in the veil, and of course, the subject of death in any guise, all conjure Poe for me. Another side of Dickens. This story had a different feel for me than his other ghost stories, more of a sense of immediate threat, although I do recall having a similar reaction to the story, To Be Read at Dusk, particularly the portion that deals with the bride who is taken.

[Connie]

I found some information about which authors may have influenced Dickens in a book of literary criticism, "Dickens and the Short Story," by Deborah Thomas, pages 15-16:

"As indicated by the title, reminiscent of the famous black veil in Ann Radcliffe's The Mysteries of Udolpho, this story is clearly linked with the line of Gothic terror, although, as Harvey Peter Sucksmith has observed, Dickens seems more immediately influenced in this piece by the tales of terror published in 'Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine' in the 1820s and 1830s, which evoked a sense of fear through specific, realistic details in contrast to the more vaguely suggested fears aroused by earlier, traditional Gothic works like those of Mrs Radcliffe. More precisely, as Sucksmith has noted, sections of The Black Veil are strikingly similar to parts of Samuel Warren's Passages from the Diary of a Late Physician, published in installments in 'Blackwood's' between 1839 and 1837; a number of episodes in Warren's Passages from the Diary of a Late Physician deal specifically with the subject of madness."

[Rosemarie]

I agree that Dickens is good at creating a gothic atmosphere-by his descriptive language.

[Kathleen]

Thanks for the long quote, Connie. The other possible influencers are interesting. I’ve read none of their works.

[Bridget]

Connie, thanks also for the information on gothic literature. I wasn't familiar with all that, and its really interesting. It made me think of Jane Eyre. Am I right in thinking that's gothic literature??