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[2022] Wild Discussion
Jill wrote: "I write reviews now, but they are really for myself, to remember what the books are about and what I felt about them."Same. I'm reading so many more books that I ever have, so it helps me keep track of them. I fear if Goodreads ever crashed or disappeared I would lose all this information.
Oh reading elitists. They make my blood boil. I got into it (on Goodreads) with someone about the fact that I enjoy Harry Potter, and this person said that there was something wrong with me if I'm an adult who is reading a "kid's book." I'm a grown woman and a History professor. If I want to read a fun middle grade fantasy instead of the kind of dense scholarly stuff I read at work, I will. I read other stuff, too, and sometimes my brain needs a break.I have been trying to get better at posting reviews, but yeah, the attitude that some have that you have to say something deep and profound is intimidating.
Nancy wrote: "Man there's nothing I hate more than a book snob. I got into an argument on Reddit with a person who thought adults shouldn't read YA because "If you are an adult, read good literature, with intere..."Grr that makes me crazy. A good book is a good book. And labels are useful but not necessarily accurate. I mean, I've seen To Kill a Mockingbird labeled as YA. A Monster Calls (YA or JF?) was an heartbreaking but beautiful read for me
I tried writing reviews and it made me hate reading so I stopped. I felt more critical about all the books I was reading rather than just enjoying them or not liking them and moving on to the next book. I also discovered that while I love reading books, I don’t enjoy discussing them. Buddy reads are not for me, unless it is with family.
NancyJ wrote: "Rachel, it sounds like you might want to consider a completely different type of challenge. Maybe something that involves more depth, more challenging books, review writing, or in-depth discussions..."Quite the opposite, actually. I love the challenges I'm doing because the prompts give me direction on what to read, which helps me narrow down my massive TBR list. I also have a blog that I post on 3x per week, and while I don't write full in-depth reviews of each book I read, I do make fairly extensive notes on each one after the fact. Those notes are mostly for myself, since I might want to bring up the book in a post at some point and I want to remember what I liked or didn't about it. I can barely keep up with the discussion here as it is, so joining a group that required posting discussions or reviews would not be a good fit for me at all.
In terms of the quality vs. quantity, I regularly read 150+ books per year, and I've become progressively better at figuring out which books I'll likely enjoy. This year, I've read 106 books in total, and only 2 of those were 3-star books and none were below that. If it's about quality of the experience, I'd much rather focus on picking books that I love than on analyzing them in depth. I also don't think people who read a larger number of books in a year are necessarily having a worse/shallower experience. Everyone reads at different rates, and gets different things out of their books.
As for my comments about repeated prompts -- I was not trying to imply at all that these prompts were bad or not useful. My point was that they have already been done multiple times across the years, and it might be more appealing to some of us who have been doing challenges for longer to freshen them up a bit so they are a little more exciting again. Maybe that's less of a concern for people who are newer to the challenges or who only do one, but I was just stating my own preference when it comes to voting.
I knew you'd all be on my side! When I said they should be happy people are reading and not judge what they're reading, they backed down a little but it still made me so mad.
Rachel wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Rachel, it sounds like you might want to consider a completely different type of challenge. Maybe something that involves more depth, more challenging books, review writing, or in-de..."Rachel, I wasn't criticizing you or judging your reading, or judging anyone's ability (but my own) to balance quantity or quality - whatever that evens means to each person. You sounded very unhappy and bored, and I was trying to help by suggesting a different approach. A little change of focus has always helped me get my spark back. There are a lot of ways to make reading fun or enriching. I had to switch up my challenges because I wanted more variety, and because competitions make me miserable and stupid (causing me to read books I didn't want to read). That's why I'm trying this. If something isn't working for you, there are options.
I really hope all these snob comments people have made aren't directed toward me, because I am not judging anyone else's reading, and I hope that others aren't judging mine. I read my share of YA and witches, and I like international and literary books too. I need to challenge myself as a way to keep my mind active (and avoid getting Alzheimers like my grandmother) now that I'm not working. I don't know why others are doing this. I'm sure we all have different goals. If those comments were directed at me - or at anyone else here - then I'm really disappointed that this isn't the supportive group I thought it was, and I need to step back.
I definitely don't think they were meant towards you NancyJ and mine 100% wasn't. I was just venting about people that think I'm supposed to only read non-fiction on serious issues. Which I do read sometimes. But sometimes I don't. I think whatever we read or how we interpret the challenge, prompt, ruts, etc is what makes us happy. I'm currently in a rut where I'm really enjoying my book, Quicksand, but I just can't find the motivation to actually read. So I'm taking a guilt-free break (or trying to not feel guilty) and binging Criminal Minds instead.
Oh mine definitely wasn't directed at anyone here, just relaying my Reddit story.
Thanks, I don't know why I'm suddenly feeling sensitive.I can relate to the motivation issue Alicia. I can't stay focused on a book right now, which is probably why I'm spending time searching lists instead. I even found 45 books with the handwriting cover prompt, after I swore I wouldn't try to do that before a prompt was actually selected.
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Oh the audiobook thing bothers me so much. I’m going to use your reasoning next time. I usually just ask them what would they say to someone that had a vision impairment, learning disability, or anything else that makes reading a physical book more difficult or less enjoyable. Then they get awkward and I gain a small amount of joy. Which makes me seem like a brat, but I do it anyways.
Jill wrote: "I write reviews now, but they are really for myself, to remember what the books are about and what I felt about them."I've always felt too intimidated to write reviews too. But thank you Jill, I'm going to start writing reviews just for me and to remember them. The bright side is I won't have to worry about spoilers :)
°~Amy~° wrote: "I have had people tell me that my reading itself isn't "quality" because I don't spend hours assessing and analyzing every aspect of the book. It is a popular elitist belief that if you don't "read..."Absolutely agree, Amy :)
Nancy wrote: "Man there's nothing I hate more than a book snob. I got into an argument on Reddit with a person who thought adults shouldn't read YA because "If you are an adult, read good literature, with intere..."Ugh, I'm nearly 70 and I really enjoy YA :)
Alicia wrote: "Oh the audiobook thing bothers me so much. I’m going to use your reasoning next time. I usually just ask them what would they say to someone that had a vision impairment, learning disability, or ..."
Good for you, Alicia! I have a friend, a voracious reader all his life, who gradually lost his vision and therefore his ability to read, until his daughter introduced him to audio books. Now at least he gets some pleasure again out of his very painful life.
I've always hated people telling me I shouldn't read YA as an adult. There are some incredible YA books out there, especially that represent LGBTQIA, BIPOC etc. There have been a few I read this year that I didn't enjoy as they were more modern and I couldn't relate as much. My mum still reads YA and it's one of the few genres we both like and can talk about. I was having a rough time mentally the last few weeks so just reread a favourite series. It was nice to escape into something familiar and was still a rewarding experience. I'm doing Harry Potter read alongs via Podcast and still notice things I didn't the first few times. I'm about to read Percy Jackson for the first time and am really looking forward to it.
It's weird how no one bats an eyelid at adults watching Pixar movies and romcoms but when it comes to books the same rules don't apply. I think some people just don't see reading as entertainment. I do learn a lot from reading, but it's not my number one objective, so that's why I read fun books!
Kat wrote: "I've always hated people telling me I shouldn't read YA as an adult. There are some incredible YA books out there, especially that represent LGBTQIA, BIPOC etc. There have been a few I read this ye..."Kat, are you listening to Potterless with Mike Schubert? I thought you might given you mention HP and Percy Jackson in the same message! It's one of my favourite podcasts and I can't wait for his new series.
If you want more HP podcasts, I also really like Wizard Team from Black Girls Create. The series has finished now as they wanted to move on to other projects, but you can still find all the old episodes.
What a great discussion! I'm with Rachel on the whole, doing challenges to help narrow down a gigantic TBR in a fun way. It's one thing to have a long TBR on Goodreads, but I have hundreds of books I already own and need to read (probably ~200 physical and 100 ebooks) so I love having a challenge to actually force me to read books I've owned forever. I guess I kind of do a whole list-BIO variation by doing the challenge from books I already own.
I 100% agree with all of you about people who look down on YA because they think it's automatically juvenile or immature. It's weird, and it's especially hard on recent YA since "classic YA" books like The Call of the Wild, Little Women, The Hobbit, Of Mice and Men, To Kill a Mockingbird, Lord of the Flies, The Catcher in the Rye, The Outsiders, etc are considered more "literary". I wonder if it's because most of those books were published before the naysayers were born, whereas recent YA might be something they associate with today's youth?
Ellie brings up such a good point about the same elitist attitude not really seeming to exist when it comes to movies and TV. I agree that it's probably because some people think TV can be mindless fun but that reading is always a chore and is therefore tedious/boring/difficult to get through.
I want to add though, that in the same vein, I dislike it when people dismiss Romance as a genre or find it inferior to, say, Sci-Fi or Horror. I think I saw someone post recently about finding a prompt difficult because most of the Listopia options were trashy historical romances. I know nothing malicious was meant by this and it was said in passing, but some of my all-time favorite books are "trashy" historical romances. It's definitely not a great feeling when I know people would consider my reading tastes bad because I like a genre that they find inferior to other genres. Sure, there's an excess of romance books out there due to the sheer popularity of the genre (including free or self-published books that aren't edited well and might actually be terrible), but that doesn't mean every book with a cheesy title or cover is actually a bad book.
As someone who reads between 250-300 books a year, I feel very validated by everyone's comments! I get a lot of comments about how I can't be 'really' reading the books I pick up because I read quickly. I still manage to read books I mostly enjoy by being fussy what I pick up but I also take advantage of my speed reading by taking chance on books I'm not sure if I'll enjoy. That's my choice though.I don't see how people's personal reading habits have any impact on anyone else but boy, from certain comments, you would have to believe it directly affects them!
I also adore audiobooks and get extremely annoyed by people who mock them or say they're not 'real' reading.
I also adore audiobooks and get extremely annoyed by people who mock them or say they're not 'real' reading.
Aimee wrote: "Kat wrote: "I've always hated people telling me I shouldn't read YA as an adult. There are some incredible YA books out there, especially that represent LGBTQIA, BIPOC etc. There have been a few I ..."I finished reading the series with Potterless and Harry Potter and the Sacred Text earlier this year. I've just started the series again and am trying a few different podcasts to see what else is out there. I'm very excited for a new series with Mike.
I just had a prompt idea. I know it would never get in but it hit me as funny given the current conversation:A book that a book snob would turn their nose up at
I mean, honestly there are probably book snobs that will turn their noses up at EVERYTHING: "Pffft, you read literary fiction? But is it TRANSLATED from an original ancient Greek text by Plato's own fiftieth generation grandchild? No? Hmph, is it REALLY even a book then?" lol
°~Amy~° wrote: "A book that a book snob would turn their nose up at"
I love this! Made me laugh.
I love this! Made me laugh.
Robin P wrote: "The snob thing comes up with audiobooks too, that it isn't "real" reading. Of course it is! The one that was actually funny was someone who said it was wrong to do a classic like Dickens on audio. ..."oh yes! r/books on Reddit is all about bashing audiobooks on the regular. I love audiobooks and I listen to quite a few each year. About 1/4 of the books I read each year are audiobooks.
Personally, it's harder for me to stay focused on audiobooks, it's a skill I'm practicing and I'm getting better at it, but if I want something "easy" then that would be reading a traditional book with my eyes. And I have this theory that the people who bash audiobooks as "not really reading" are also people who have a really hard time staying focused on audiobooks, so they make themselves feel better for not being able to do it by saying that doing it isn't really doing anything.
I absolutely agree that humorous books can be so much funnier when a good narrator reads them. I'm listening to American Elsewhere right now, and it's hysterical, in large part because of how Graham Winton reads it. (This is not really a "humorous" book, it's alternate reality / aliens science fiction. But it's funny, too, in sort of a dark humor way.) The skill of the narrator is so important!!
Sometimes when I really love an audiobook, I wonder if I would have loved the book if I had read it. But I'll never know. You can never have another first experience with a book.
Nadine wrote: "Sometimes when I really love an audiobook, I wonder if I would have loved the book if I had read it. But I'll never know. "
I only started listening to audiobooks as extensively as I do now within the last six months or so. With COVID affecting shipping, availability and book prices so much where I live, if I want access to new releases or just a range of titles really, my library's Overdrive/Libby is my best bet. I also love how I can multitask with audiobooks so I manage to read even more than usual!
Although I definitely have a few times when I wonder if I would have liked the book more if I read it physically, or sometimes whether I only enjoyed it because of the narrator. It definitely adds another element to your reading experience that can drastically affect your enjoyment.
I only started listening to audiobooks as extensively as I do now within the last six months or so. With COVID affecting shipping, availability and book prices so much where I live, if I want access to new releases or just a range of titles really, my library's Overdrive/Libby is my best bet. I also love how I can multitask with audiobooks so I manage to read even more than usual!
Although I definitely have a few times when I wonder if I would have liked the book more if I read it physically, or sometimes whether I only enjoyed it because of the narrator. It definitely adds another element to your reading experience that can drastically affect your enjoyment.
I first discovered audiobooks when my MIL was rendered blind after a surgery, and she listened to them. Back then she had to get them directly from Books for the Blind as libraries didn't have them; this was ~20 years ago. The first time I listened to one I was hooked. And if anyone ever told her it wasn't reading, she'd have whacked them with her cane.
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I once had a teacher who said that any book less than 200 pages was "not of an appropriate difficulty for high schoolers" ...and then proceeded to assign us Of Mice and Men which is all of 100 pages. She did not get to live that down. We did not let that go. The poor thing, but she brought it on herself. Hopefully she learned to keep her foot out of her mouth.
That's amazing Jackie. My son is a freshman and the high school has really expanded their English program, it's not just English 9, English 10 anymore, so this year he has Mythology and Sci-Fi as his English class. Back to school night was last night and she said they're starting with The Odyssey, but she's trying to get them to read outside the usual sci-fi and that Neil Gaiman is her favorite author. I was like, yes! And then started naming my favorite books of his. She seemed to think I was a weirdo though lol.
Unfortunately when I got home and told my son he was like, that class is boring. He's a math/science whiz but does like to read too.
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I usually just ask them what would they say to someone that had a vision impairment, learning disability, or ..."
Yes, those are also important issues. I know multiple people who love audiobooks because vision problems make physical books hard. Some have trouble holding a book because of arthritis or other issues.
Yes, the snob thing comes up a lot with romance. It used to be that fantasy and sci-fi were looked down on, but with the popularity of Star Wars, Games of Thrones, etc., they are now more accepted. Of course romance is a genre mostly written and read by women. Other genres, like military thrillers and westerns, aren't that different but they are mostly written and read by men.
There have been suggestions for "guilty pleasure" as a prompt but people mostly didn't like the idea of any reading being guilty. We did put in "comfort read", which could be anything you turn to, a favorite genre, author, etc.
YA didn't exist as a genre when I was young. There was a small section in the library labeled Teen, but most of us just started reading adult books. To Kill a Mockingbird was considered an adult book. And I'm sure Steinbeck intended Of Mice and Men for an adult audience! It's probably used in school because it is short.
Some books which are just labeled Children's can be wonderful for anyone. For instance, I thought The War That Saved My Life was outstanding.
Nancy wrote: "That's amazing Jackie. My son is a freshman and the high school has really expanded their English program, it's not just English 9, English 10 anymore, so this year he has Mythology and Sci-Fi as..."
That. Sounds. AWESOME.
I was disappointed in my kids' English classes - they have very little assigned reading compared to what I had many years ago, and of that reading, very little of it is interesting. They have Shakesepeare in almost every year, and Shakespeare is worthwhile, but does it have to be every year?
Nadine wrote: "Robin P wrote: "The snob thing comes up with audiobooks too, that it isn't "real" reading. Of course it is! The one that was actually funny was someone who said it was wrong to do a classic like Di..."I totally agree that for me, listening to audiobooks is much less easy than reading! I have a very hard time staying focused and following the story and I'm pretty impressed by people who listen to books with complicated plots that way. Seems like an admirable skill to me!
It's funny because I actually love reading out loud and have read out loud a lot in my life to my family and to several of my romantic partners. Often they've said to me, "I feel a bit guilty, it feels so luxurious to be read to, do you want me to take a turn?" And I'm always like "Noooo!" Sometimes I've let them, but only if I can spend the whole time looking over their shoulder and reading silently along with them, ha.
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That's great, Jackie! I read a ton of print books but I prefer audio for many series, books set in foreign locations, or just books by narrators I love. I seem to be able to retain things well by listening, which was great in college. In my time, professors mostly lectured and there was nothing to look at except the textbook. My husband, who is a very visual learner, tried to take notes, but it was always hard for him and he decided he just wasn't smart.
A great victory for me was 20 years ago when I started listening to Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series. I put it on during a trip and he got hooked too. So I would get the next book (on cassettes) from the library, then pass it on to him before it was due back. We went through the whole series but it still didn't hook him on audiobooks in general. Same for my daughter, who is also very visual. She will listen to a book in small doses or on a really easy drive but finds it distracting over time. I never have too much of it! I put on a book for a 5-minute drive.
For those struggling to get used to audiobooks, it can help to start with something you know, like Harry Potter (terrific on audio) or with something that has short segments, so it's more like a podcast. And if audio doesn't really work for you, that's fine too.
(Another clue about our learning styles is that I am always talking, to someone or to myself. Something isn't real to me unless I hear it. For others, it isn't real unless they see it. When someone gives my husband directions, he draws it as a map. He writes down all his activities, even what he eats each day. This seems like a pain to me, but it works for him.)
I definitely have different selection processes between audiobooks and print books. I tend to do more non-fiction and realistic fiction in audio. I feel like SFF I need to pay more attention to detail than I can manage while walking the dog.I am also fussy with narrators. They must fit the book but also have an engaging voice, there are some that I just zone out, I can't help it, I just find their voices boring. Or when they do irritating voices for main characters. 😐
So I can't just listen to any book in audio. I think those struggling should definitely sample a bunch of different narrators to find what works.
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Irene wrote: "I want to add though, that in the same vein, I dislike it when people dismiss Romance as a genre or find it inferior to, say, Sci-Fi or Horror. I think I saw someone post recently about finding a prompt difficult because most of the Listopia options were trashy historical romances. I know nothing malicious was meant by this and it was said in passing, but some of my all-time favorite books are "trashy" historical romances. It's definitely not a great feeling when I know people would consider my reading tastes bad because I like a genre that they find inferior to other genres. Sure, there's an excess of romance books out there due to the sheer popularity of the genre (including free or self-published books that aren't edited well and might actually be terrible), but that doesn't mean every book with a cheesy title or cover is actually a bad book."Thank you for this comment. I remember that comment and almost responded to say something similar at the time. People dismiss romance as a genre more than any other one (except maybe YA), meanwhile romance is the genre that mostly keeps publishing afloat and good romance novels are doing some of the most feminist and interesting work in books right now. So many who picked up one or no romance books in their lives feel like they know it's not something they would ever like without giving it a chance. There are good and bad romances just like every other genre out there. I would suggest Helen Hoang, Alyssa Cole, Tessa Dare or Talia Hibbert for those interested.
I agree that romance often gets blasted in ways it doesn’t deserve. I’m mostly a sci-fi/ fantasy reader, but my mother introduced me to Georgette Heyer in my teens and drawing room regencies are still a staple in my reading diet, and that is one of the really fun things about romance is there are so many specific sub genres to let people dial in what they like
Not sure if it was me, as I regularly call things cheesy romance or cheesy mysteries. But I love the fact that they are cheesy. I’m a hallmark movie buff (from the love stories to the mystery series - Aurora Teagarden, yes please!), so reading similar books makes me happy and warm all over. I’ll try to be better about my phrasing though because I know that can sound negative.
Pretty sure it wasn’t you. It was definitely‘trashy’, which TBH I often use too and should really watch more
I work with students with dyslexia, eye reading and ear reading use the same parts of the brain. This does not mean that learning to read print is not important. It does mean that audiobooks are not cheating and can be an important part of the reading process. Audiobook books model correct pronunciation, fluency, increase vocabulary and background knowledge which supports comprehension. (Nancy I don’t think you were being negative about audiobooks but I was bothered by what you said about “teachers being adamant about print” and strong readers won’t be hurt by audiobooks (audiobooks won’t hurt anyone though balanced literacy does). I work with the kids who are hurt by a lack of teacher knowledge in teaching reading).
Audio books are a great way to encourage kids to read. When my children were young we listened to stories on road trips. It started with Thomas the Tank Engine and moved up from there. Both of them are now avid readers. Humans are oral story tellers. The written word is a relatively new concept. As long as people are telling stories and sharing them the medium is not as important. It is the connections we make to each other and our communities.
Teachers who encourage all age groups to read even a cereal box, if that is what sparks the love of stories is a good one.
I've never been able to concentrate on audio books (even though I love podcasts) but decided to give it another go. Libby has some books I want to read that they only have the audio for. As mentioned above I've started with Harry Potter as I already know the story and I can listen to Stephen Fry for hours. Hopefully that will get me into it and I can branch out. I'm going to loose so much reading time when I start commuting back to the office, it would be nice if I could still get some reading in this way.
Kat wrote: "I've never been able to concentrate on audio books (even though I love podcasts) but decided to give it another go. Libby has some books I want to read that they only have the audio for. As menti..."
I often recommend to new audiobook readers that they play around with the speed of the book playback. Audiobooks are usually recorded at a rate that is slower than the spoken words in conversation. It's very hard for some people to pay attention to that slower rate of speech so the mind wanders off to other things. If you speed the book up to 1.2x or 1.5x it might help you stay focused. That speed can change from one narrator to the next as well. Most of my books are 1.5x but my current book I turned back to 1x. This particular narrator and the story itself are very fast paced on their own. I imagine it would work to slow down the speed too in some cases.
Anastasia wrote: "Audio books are a great way to encourage kids to read. When my children were young we listened to stories on road trips. It started with Thomas the Tank Engine and moved up from there. Both of them..."My little brother has dyslexia but we didn't know until his freshman year of high school. We were told he was was "under achieving" and "being difficult" in his reading classes. By then he had been held back a year and felt like, in his words "a complete idiot". Things didn't go well for him in school from there. It makes me sad remembering that he used to love to be read to when he was little. I often wonder if using audiobooks would have helped him be more successful in school and therefore more successful in life. :(
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I've become overly invested in topics before, so I get it! I like your energy :)