Hugo shortlist released

[Kristenelle]

The novella list is especially appalling IMO.... http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-his...

[Kalin]

Really? I thought we hadn't found a full solid list of novellas between us?

Also isn't the best related work category more appalling?

[MH]

I haven't found a lot of great novellas this year, but I'm still surprised its an all-Tor list.

The novels aren't surprising: once again the goodreads list was pretty predicative.

Related work? Ouch. That's quite a message from the Hugo electorate about the awards' former MC.

[Silvana]

I was LOLing when Malka read it!

Most of my picks did not make it, but that is expected. Voting closes on November 19, yay.

Best related works would be so hard to choose, but I wish FIYAHcon could win because that one was a blast.

Sad for the Vanished Birds did not make it to the final list for best novel so pleaseeee vote Simon Jimenez in the Astounding category! Novella, yeah the Tor cleansweep is just not... Sigh.

[Kalin]

I really have a problem with a con being nominated as a related work, like last year I had a problem with a Hugo acceptance speech getting the same nom. That category is such a mess.

Likely to win of course.

[Gabi]

I'm just glad that MDH's Beowulf translation made it onto the list in this category. This was so much fun to read and really cleverly done.

[Oleksandr]

*sweeps a tear*
Again all-women novel category, again no Tchaikovsky in novel or novella, again speeches and rants go to related works instead of scholar works...

[Silvana]

Novel category must have at least one man in it?

[Antti]

Did you notice Isabel Fall's "I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter" is on the Novelette list? It's listed as "Helicopter Story". That's... interesting. Let's see if the debate over the story starts all over again or if the controversy has already run it's course.

[Gabi]

@Oleksandr: I hope it levels out a bit in the coming years. I find myself on a subconscious level looking out for more male authors in SF in the last months.

@Silvana: no, no male author in the novel category.

@Antti: yes, I've seen that. Is the story available again. I remember that it had been taken down last year and we could only read it, cause sb (Oleksandr?) had a 'back issue' for us.

[Kristenelle]

Kalin wrote: "Really? I thought we hadn't found a full solid list of novellas between us?

Also isn't the best related work category more appalling?"

I guess I forgot to update my lists. Just in the last few weeks I've found some better novellas. I was on a mission, haha. My favorite novellas were The Seep, Prosper's Demon, and The A.I. Who Loved Me. But mostly I'm frustrated to see Finna and Upright Women Wanted on the list because I felt that they were both bottom of the barrel. There were tons of novellas that were better. I would have liked to have seen Firewalkers or The Order of the Pure Moon Reflected in Water or The Stone Wētā before those two. They weren't spectacular or anything, but they were still head and shoulders above Finna and Upright Women imo.


I'm not really familiar with the related work category or why its noms would be upsetting.

I don't feel like it's crazy that all the authors are women. I think most of the books I've read that are eligible are by female authors....and I'm not really doing that on purpose. Women are just killing it right now.

Sorry, Silvana, I'm rooting for Micaiah Johnson to win the Astounding award...although, you're the one with an actual vote, haha.

I'm very intrigued by Attack Helicopter. The title is so strange. What was the controversy?

[Kristenelle]

Also, I was really disappointed by the dramatic categories. No Lovecraft Country at all. Two Mandalorian episodes. 🙄 And Eurovision....which just confounds me. It isn't scifi or fantasy....

What are you all voting for for best series? I think I'd probably go for Murderbot, personally.

[Gabi]

@Kristenelle: I had the same thoughts on the novella category. Finna and Upright Woman Wanted simply were bad. The only novella that really killed it for me was The Stone Weta. Not even my beloved AT's novella did much for me last year. (but this year's One day all this will be yours is a killer. top of the tops! Most probably without chance since AT still is a white cis hetero male ... XD)

For series I will vote for Kowal (those I've read and liked) or Poppy Wars (I still have to read 2 and 3, but 1 was really good)

[Leticia]

Pity that Mexican Gothic and Tchaikovsky are missing. As series go I would vote for Murderbot.
And as best related work, I think this should win: https://www.pretty-terrible.com/georg...

[Kalin]

Kristenelle wrote: "I'm very intrigued by Attack Helicopter. The title is so strange. What was the controversy? "

The original title of the story was "I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter." Mostly without reading, the internet assumed it was a transphobic screed belittling gender identity and blew up in outrage. I haven't read the story, but apparently it's not at all what many assumed it to be, but the author got dogpiled on social media, there were lots of hot takes and backlash. The author was so harassed until she requested the story be taken down from Clarkesworld.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Sexua...

[Allan]

Over the last five years, 80% of the short list books were written by women. Is there really such a dearth of good books written by men, or is it that they are relatively poor quality, or is it the demographics of the voters, or a stronger sense of inclusivity towards those who were not recognized for decades?

That's not to say any are undeserving, but for me, The Midnight Bargain is a terrible choice (Bridgerton with magic - I haven't wanted to DNF a book so much in years), Mexican Gothic was mediocre, and I have heard more bad things about the Gideon/Harrow series than good. Tchaikovsky is continually ignored despite frequent strong efforts.

Piranesi would be a worthy double winner, but I doubt that will happen. I didn't think Jemisin's book was outstanding, but it was pretty good and she is highly respected. Network Effect deserves something, and I think it will be best series, while the two above will get be the winners.

[Kalin]

Kristenelle wrote: "Also, I was really disappointed by the dramatic categories. No Lovecraft Country at all. Two Mandalorian episodes. 🙄 And Eurovision....which just confounds me. It isn't scifi or fantasy....

What are you all voting for for best series? I think I'd probably go for Murderbot, personally."

I was also shocked and disappointed about Lovecraft Country. I nominated three separate episodes for that category! And The Mandalorian is just okay. It really doesn't deserve two nominations a year, both of this year's nominations probably achieved due to the cameo tie-in effect.

My only guess (and hope) is that Lovecraft Country had too many high quality episodes for one shining example to be the go-to nominee for everyone. They were so good, and so different, that favourite eps may vary from person to person. It can't be that Hugo voters don't think it merited attention? It was SO GOOD.

As for series... right now, for me, it's absolutely Murderbot. But that's because I haven't read much from the other series, except for book 1 of Interdepedency and Lady Astronaut, and no I don't think I will vote for them! Lady Astronaut already got an undeserved Best Novel Hugo, it doesn't need best series. And Scalzi just isn't award material IMO, as much as I like the author. But because we have almost the whole year now to nominate, I might be able to read the Poppy War or Daevabad. I think I have Poppy War already from when RF Kuang was nominated for best new writer.

[Oleksandr]

Silvana wrote: "Novel category must have at least one man in it?"

They shouldn't, but I just liked say a 2020 novel by Adrian Tchaikovsky or Peter F. Hamilton or Derek Künsken or Cory Doctorow or Robert J. Sawyer more than any nominee except for Piranesi.

I agree that
1. women were underrepresented for the previous 40 years or so
2. there are great works by women

therefore, I see the fact than last two years only women are nominated for the best novel and in 2019 there was only one man - Yoon Ha Lee, as a justifiable drive to give women and minorities their due. However, I want a literary award, where the best work wins, irrespective of author's characteristics

[Leticia]

I really liked The Midnight Bargain It had important themes too, it wasn't Bridgerton with magic. I tend to be open minded about different kinds of fantasy and not say that something is mediocre only because it wasn't a book I liked.

[Gabi]

Allan wrote: "That's not to say any are undeserving, but for me, The Midnight Bargain is a terrible choice (Bridgerton with magic - I haven't wanted to DNF a book so much in years)."

LOL! I have read 'Midnight Bargain' after the Nebula list came out ... which wasn't that long ago - and I honestly can't remember any details about it. I would have to read the blurb or reviews again to remember what it was about - so definitely nothing noteworthy for my brain.

And I agree: Piranesi will be the one I'm voting for, because all the rest just isn't up there imho. (okay ... I still could be positively surprised by Jemisin's novel, but since I didn't like the short story I don't think I will)

[Rebecca]

Kalin wrote: "Kristenelle wrote: "I'm very intrigued by Attack Helicopter. The title is so strange. What was the controversy? "

The original title of the story was "I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter."..."

Any idea where we can find the Helicopter Story text now?

[Kalin]

I've heard it's available somewhere, but don't know myself.

It'll hopefully be included in the Hugo reader packet next month.

[Kristenelle]

Kalin wrote: "Kristenelle wrote: "I'm very intrigued by Attack Helicopter. The title is so strange. What was the controversy? "

The original title of the story was "I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter."..."

Ahhh, thanks for explaining. That makes sense. I could totally see how someone would assume it is making fun of sexual identities. Glad to hear that wasn't actually the case.

Re: The Midnight Bargain....so, I actually ended up loving it. But I don't think it is really that far off to call it Bridgerton with magic, haha. I don't really know what I think about it being on the Nebula shortlist. It is really fun and entertaining, but I wouldn't say it goes super deep or breaks any molds. But that is somewhat subjective so I'm not super invested in whether it is nominated or not.

Oleksandr - I didn't care for Doctorow's or Tchaikovsky's books this year, personally. I dnf'd both and haven't read the other authors you mentioned. Without looking at sex at all, I would just naturally pick mostly women this year without any agenda (an exception is M. R. Carey's Trials of Koli). We can definitely look at hype and promotion...because those are huge factors in what I end up reading, but I am super skeptical that there is any kind of agenda to only nominate female authors.

[Gabi]

I was curious and looked through my 2020 release reads for novels and novellas: I've read 25 books by male authors and 27 books by female/nb authors - so that's pretty balanced. My 5 star reads were 6 times male authors and 3 times female/nb authors. So I'm definitely not in the Hugo/Nebula average.

[Oleksandr]

Here is the thread on Attack Helicopter with links https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Oleksandr]

Kristenelle wrote: " I am super skeptical that there is any kind of agenda to only nominate female authors."

I agree that most likely there is no group that shifted the results, like it was with Puppies a few years back. And I agree that my tastes are not a guiding rule for anyone, so it is perfectly ok that books I liked you dnf'ed. However, that ultimate domination of women shows most likely that demographics of fandom has shifted even compared with the early 2000s and modern Chiefly US) fandom that predominantly votes for Hugo is different from our group members, at least those, who expressed their opinions. I'm just a grumbling old man, recalling old good times :)

[Gabi]

@Oleksandr: this grumbling old woman joins you in the nostalgia XD. We just have to accept that we are not the target audience for nowadays SFF anymore. The next generation has taken over (as it should be).

[Oleksandr]

Gabi wrote: "@Oleksandr: this grumbling old woman joins you in the nostalgia XD. We just have to accept that we are not the target audience for nowadays SFF anymore. The next generation has taken over (as it sh..."

And this too shall pass and they will be grumbling about the next generation tastes :)

[Kristenelle]

Oleksandr wrote: "Kristenelle wrote: " I am super skeptical that there is any kind of agenda to only nominate female authors."

I agree that most likely there is no group that shifted the results, like it was with P..."

Ah, I see. Sorry. Guess my demographic is gaining more numbers at this point. 😬😏

[Eva]

While I think Rhythm of War definitely should have made the list, I've read three of the Hugo nominated novels already and all three were 4.5 or 5 stars for me: Black Sun, The City We Became, and Harrow the Ninth, with Harrow being my favorite. I'm looking forward to the other three, as well, even though I haven't gotten to them yet (Murderbot is one of my favorite series, I liked Calculating Stars, and everyone seems to adore Piranesi).

Of the novellas, I've read and really liked Empress of Salt and Sorrow (4 stars), but again my favorite was a Tamsyn Muir novella (Princess Floralinda) which was probably handicapped against getting a nomination by its much too low print run (sold out quickly and wasn't available anywhere). Same with Sanderson and Kowal's The Original: it's still only available on audio, and probably simply reached too few people to have a fair chance against the widely available and marketed Tor novellas: I guess the reason Tor is currently dominating the category so utterly is due to their commitment to actually promoting it, risking larger print runs, affordable sales, give-aways, and even handing out free novellas to newletter subscribers. No wonder people end up reading lots of Tor novellas and then voting for the ones they liked.

Happy that Kalanadi got a nomination, I just love her book reviews so much! Even though we often differ a bit in terms of personal taste, I always respect her views and her reviews are still always helpful regardless. I hope she wins the fancast category, especially for e.g. her reading and reviewing ALL of the SF Masterworks project - I really appreciated getting a modern perspective on which SF classics still hold up well today.

Not sure about the Best Series Award noms: all of them are series I gave a try and then set aside because nothing about them immediately grabbed or fascinated me. Maybe I'll give them another try.

Happy about the nom for The Mandalorian: The Rescue made me cry and fulfilled all my geeky fan wishes. Haven't watched anything else, so I can't say how good the other things were.

Best Related: seriously? An award for a rant? Since when do rants get awards, that's just silly. I hope that e.g. the new Beowulf translation wins instead: something for the ages, that people will still want to read 50 years from now, something that required long years of study, careful research, creativity and hard work - an actual great achievement.

[Allan]

Leticia wrote: "I really liked The Midnight Bargain It had important themes too, it wasn't Bridgerton with magic. I tend to be open minded about different kinds of fantasy and not say that something is mediocre only because it wasn't a book I liked...."

I am very open-minded and read all sorts of fantasy as well, since my goal is to read the entire H/N list. However, I did feel that Mexican Gothic was mediocre. I felt that very little was original and had little to recommend it. Not the worst book I've ever read, but far from being award-worthy.

As for The Midnight Bargain, I was of course being facetious in saying "Bridgerton with magic", but you can't deny the similarities in the society setting, and in the main characters' interactions. I find that it is well-written but I cannot get those characters out of my head when reading it. Not my cup of tea, but I don't DNF H/N books (although I DNF'ed Bridgerton). I think it's far better than Mexican Gothic, but again not really award-worthy when I consider some of the alternatives.

[Rebecca]

The Lady Astronaut popularity confounds me - the weak MC (and her marriage) doesn’t seem to align with the general trend towards books that buck gender norms and portray strong female leads. Maybe we have different standards for revisionist history vs far future?

[Kalin]

Eva wrote: "Best Related: seriously? An award for a rant? Since when do rants get awards, that's just silly. I hope that e.g. the new Beowulf translation wins instead: something for the ages, that people will still want to read 50 years from now, something that required long years of study, careful research, creativity and hard work - an actual great achievement."

From reading File770 and social media, this nomination is creating another big conflictual blowup in SFF fandom.

[Eva]

Right, it's a clear violation of their own codes of conduct!

"We do not tolerate harassment of convention attendees in any form. Behavior that will be considered harassment includes, but is not limited to[…]

Comments directly intended to belittle, offend, or cause discomfort including telling others they are not welcome and should leave[...]

We require attendees to follow the CoC in online interactions with the convention (including the volunteer mailings, wiki, and other online facilities), at all convention venues and convention-related social activities."

How can you reward a violation of your own codes of conduct with an award? They're supposed to protect all members and attendees from feeling unwelcome, and how exactly does suggesting that someone should "f*** off into the sun" make that person feel welcome and comfortable? How is it somehow not telling him he should leave? It's literally even telling him he should leave the planet, let alone the convention. If one agrees with the opinion or not, expressing it is in this way is a clear CoC violation and should not be eligible for an award.

Here's the link: http://file770.com/discon-iii-decline...

What if the next time, 40 reactionary right-wingers want to tell e.g. some female writer of color to "f*** off and die" (that's how many votes this nom got)? And that female author of color's name would be posted with those exact words again and again, printed on large posters, programs, and flyers, those words will be spoken by all the announcers again and again to all attendees of the con whenever the nom is mentioned... Just totally unacceptable! Obviously, noms that violate their CoC should be disqualified automatically, otherwise they'd have to continously violate their own CoC again and again themselves during that Con.

[Kristenelle]

Rebecca wrote: "The Lady Astronaut popularity confounds me - the weak MC (and her marriage) doesn’t seem to align with the general trend towards books that buck gender norms and portray strong female leads. Maybe ..."

I guess I see the MC fitting very much into the trend to portray mental health stuff in a realistic and sympathetic light. Which is cool. I've also been hearing people talking about how female characters don't always need to be "strong." So I think that while strong, incredible female characters were a reaction to females characters always being weak, small, and without agency....I hope we are starting to trend towards a variety of female characters as diverse and complex as male characters can be.

And I'm not sure what you're saying about the portrayal of marriage?

But yeah, I personally wasn't a fan of Calculating Stars and am not interested in reading more of the series.

[Kristenelle]

Eva: Dang, I didn't realize Floralinda was an eligible novella. It's on my tbr, but I had assumed it was older for some reason. Your speculation about Tor novellas sounds right. They do a very good job of promoting their books.

And you make a good case for "Martin should f*ck off into the sun" being disqualified. I agree, but I also still see a distinction between a hyperbolic rant on someone's blog versus the very real harassment and death threats that women and especially women of color receive.

[Eva]

I never said anything against the blog or that it shouldn't be allowed to exist or be worded differently, just that this title *as a nomination* forces anyone saying the noms out loud or printing them to violate their own codes of conduct. The entire point of having and agreeing on such codes of conduct for an organisation is to protect the experience of attendees and members much more than laws would to ensure everyone feels welcome.

Harassment and death threats (which this clearly isn't, of course) would be against the law (so no CoC required to forbid them), but "making someone feel uncomfortable or unwelcome, or asking them to leave" is against the codes of conduct they've all agreed upon. If they then start applying those codes of conduct only selectively against those the management disagrees with, but not against those the management agrees with, even so much as to allow conduct violations on official marketing materials and for themselves (when they announce the noms verbally), then that's simply what is known as an abuse of power, with rules applied selectively against some but not others.

There's certainly the possibility of making a case for not treating Cons as safe spaces, for allowing even very forceful and hostile criticism and ad hominems in order to encourage lively and open debate. But the Con has very much decided against this approach, and in favor of strict codes of conduct. It's either/or, not "well, we'll apply this rule only when we think it should be applied" - that just creates confusion and smacks of bias and partiality. Whenever a group of people agrees upon following common rules, they should be applied without partiality and favoritism.

[MH]

Oleksandr wrote: "However, I want a literary award, where the best work wins, irrespective of author's characteristics"

John Scalzi points out that this year four of the novels are NYT best-sellers, plus of course everything has scads of positive reviews from professionals rather than people scamming free books for upvotes, so if we're looking for the best of the genre, the voters nailed the brief. Yes, there's other good work as well, but its just not the case that this stuff is obviously weak.

Speaking for myself, I haven't yet read Black Sun, but I liked all the rest, and nothing there was merely average (last year had one, due to a good book being withdrawn). I liked and nominated other books too, but I'm not unhappy with the overall list.

(Novellas is a different story, but that's because it was a weak year IMHO)

[Kristīne]

Similary to Kristenelle i do not think the blog entry is comparable with harassment - especially, bc it was written in the context and as a reaction to Martin's words and actions in the last year's ceremony, it's not bigotry that motivated the wording of the entry or the reaction itself. Many were understandably hurt by his actions and many felt that it was intentionally done to basically "show them their place" in the fandom. It's no wonder the reaction has been so strong and i think it's telling that this year's nomination was one of the angrier critiques, though there were many calling him out re this. And now certain segment of sff has chosen to focus on one word in all of this. I very much agree with what Jason Sanford has to say here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonsanfo...
+ great comment by Paul Weimer (both of them also this year's finalists in Best Fan Writer):
https://www.patreon.com/posts/hugo-aw...

[Antti]

Since Fall's novelette was listed as "Helicopter Story" and not by it's real title, you'd expect they could do the same thing for this essay: call it "The Rageblog" or something similar. There; CoC problem solved, sort of.

But as has been pointed out, the Related Work category is a huge mess. How do you compare a newly translated book, a blog post and a con with each other? Talk about apples and oranges! And if you didn't attend the Fiyahcon when it was held, how are you supposed to know what it was like?

Right now it seems like the main thing the Related Work is good for is creating controversy.

[Kristenelle]

Thanks for the links, Kristine. So I hadn't really investigated anything about this, but now I've read the blog post and Kristine's links and.... I don't think there is anything wrong with the nomination. The title is dramatic, but I don't think it can be construed as a death threat or even harassment. Is it making someone uncomfortable and unwelcome? I think the key here is power differentials. Martin is a wealthy, old white dude with an enormous fan base and multiple Hugo awards of his own. He chose to hurt and alienate tons of SFF fans who are none of those things in his presentation of the con last year. His presenting was blatantly disrespectful and seemed bent on purposefully making many people feel unwelcome...people without the amount of power that he enjoys. So some nobody wrote a blog post venting about it. The actual post is well written and doesn't contain attacks or expletives. The title is a colorful expression of the rage that many feel at being hurt and excluded by Martin. They want the hurt to go away. They aren't actually telling him to die or even to be kicked out of world con or whatever. It feels to me like a personal expression of feelings rather than a directive of any kind.

And is harassment and death threats actually illegal? Regardless, it happens constantly without being stopped by any legal entity I'm aware of. And women are usually the victims. "Martin can F" isn't at all comparable to the harassment and death threats that many women receive on the regular. (What do you wanna bet the author of the blog post is actually the one now dealing with those?)

[Kristenelle]

Some more commentary: https://mobile.twitter.com/courtneymi...

[Kalin]

Kristenelle wrote: "They aren't actually telling him to die or even to be kicked out of world con or whatever."

Yes they are. The conclusion of Luhrs' rant -- "In conclusion, let us shoot George R.R. Martin and Bob Silverberg into the sun where they shall bother us no longer." -- is pretty clear to me that Luhrs doesn't want Martin and Silverberg in her fandom, which is broader than worldcon.

The issue is not with the word "fuck" because it's a bad bad swear word, the issue is with the message "fuck off" as in "go away, you're not part of our community, we don't care to be bothered by you."

I read the post back immediately after the Hugo ceremony, which was a disaster, and agreed quite vehemently. I was angry too.
I also thought the community backlash to Martin's hosting was pretty clear and that there was more or less consensus about it. I agree with the critique, but I'm not on board with the proposed solution: exiling or shunning longtime worldcon community members. Whatever the tensions brought about by new guard vs. old guard and the changing demographics and broader inclusivity of fandom, I'm not okay with the new guard declaring the old guard irrelevant and bothersome and essentially the living dead.

There is the separate issue of the weird conglomeration that BRW has become, like Antti described. A convention, an essay, a translation, a side-convention. These don't reasonably belong in the same category. It seems like fannish stuff has been creeping in more and more to related work, mostly because the category is so vague, where cons and con-commentary, mostly with an explicit political orientation, are crowding out works of non-fiction -- academic study, biographies, histories. I'm not happy about this because there's nowhere else for those types of work to go, but there are plenty of fan categories, and Natalie Luhrs could have been nominated as best fan writer.

[Kristenelle]

There is the tolerance paradox again though. If we affirm that Martin is unequivocally welcome we are accepting that many others are not welcome. I’m open to considering other solutions, but I feel there does need to be some kind of statement that Martin’s behavior/beliefs/words are indeed not welcome.

It sounds like we need a nonfiction category. Or maybe some other categories...because I kind of enjoy how “mixed media” this category is. I like the idea that there is a miscellaneous category for whatever random thing really influenced the fandom in the past year.

[Eva]

If they truly believed that Martin had intentionally made others feel unwelcome, they would have charged *him* with a CoC violation and he would have simply had the corresponding consequences. They chose not to, probably because all he did was mispronounce names and praise some old friends of his while not praising some of the nominees - but he never actually told anyone to f*** off or leave, nor anything hostile or negative, that was only a subtle vibe people got, a subjective interpretation. He never excplicitly said anyone was unwelcome, whereas the new nomination does this very openly and clearly, so that it should be a no-brainer to see the CoC apply.

They wrote the rule into their CoC the way they did, so if they want to encourage the behavior of telling some people to f*** off, then they should simply change that rule to say it's okay. Same with mispronouncing names or praising Robert Silverberg: they can simply make that against the rules.

They already have exceptions to the tolerance rule which already ensures the paradox is prevented: the CoC is meant to do just that, namely state exactly what is tolerated behavior and what isn't, and making sure people who break the rules can be told to stop/removed.

Obviously, a good case could be made for changing the rules and their wording to match what the group actually wants. But in their current state, the rules clearly don't allow propagating the title of this nom. 🤷‍♀️ But we'll see, maybe they'll change their CoC before the event takes place.

P.S. Also, the possibility of civil and polite vehement disagreement does exist and is open to them: e.g. telling Martin exactly why his behavior was unacceptable would be fine according to their own rules, and they could also have released a public statement if they had wanted to.

[Kateblue]

Kalin wrote: "Kristenelle wrote: "I'm very intrigued by Attack Helicopter. The title is so strange. What was the controversy? "

The original title of the story was "I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter."..."

I really liked this story a lot. I laughed out loud. I hope it wins. I thought the people were really overreacting, but I am CIS, white, and old, so maybe I just don't have the ability to judge.

[Eva]

I want to clarify again that no, obviously we all agree that these were not harassment nor death threats (which yes, are illegal in most countries, including the US). I only mentioned them because you had said that surely there was a difference between the harassment and death threats women (and lots of other people) face online and this title. And I was saying that yes, of course, which is why the former are illegal, and the title is not. Nominating it as a full title (without merely calling it "the Rageblog", as suggested) is not illegal, but it is a clear violation of the Con's Code of Conduct rules. That was my only point.

I read the article as well when it came out, along with other good critiques, and agreed with many of its points, and never really personally liked GRRM very much to begin with. But the whole point of agreeing on codes of conduct is to protect everyone equally, not just the ones we personally like and agree with. (But of course, they're free to change the CoC to say that only people who have less than a specified yearly income will be protected, for example, and those above will not, just a suggestion.)

I don't agree he's got more power in this situation: last year, yes, but this year he's just an attendee like everyone else (or was, he cancelled a few days ago obviously) and is not involved in the organization at all anymore. The organizers are the ones in power this year, and the organizers are the ones who are literally telling someone they should f* off and die, right?

[Antti]

The CoC interpretation Eva talks about ties into an ages-old problem about the letter vs the spirit of the law.

Some advocate reading rules as literally as possible, some feel like we should do our best to follow the intention of the rules. Both ways have their pros and cons.

The letter-of-the-law interpretation is more transparent and easier to follow, but it enables rules-lawyering, loopholes and borderline-abusive behaviour that manages to just stay within the rules.

OTOH the spirit-of-the-law interpretation is opaque and unpredictable and can be used to bully and silence unpopular people.

[Oleksandr]

Great comments! I was a bit busy with my work, just only just read up the thread. My 2 cents on GRRM is that according to him, organizers haven't supplied him with pronunciation tips, so while it is still his fault he hadn't asked, selecting him for others lame organization was wrong

[Kateblue]

Eva wrote: "Happy that Kalanadi got a nomination, I just love her book reviews so much! Even though we often differ a bit in terms of personal taste, I always respect her views and her reviews are still always helpful regardless. I hope she wins the fancast category, especially for e.g. her reading and reviewing ALL of the SF Masterworks project - I really appreciated getting a modern perspective on which SF classics still hold up well today."

Have you got a website for the reviews of the SF Masterworks project? I think I need it!

Allan wrote: "However, I did feel that Mexican Gothic was mediocre. "

Me too! It was OK, but throughout the entire book I kept thinking, "You idiot." I won't say why because . . . spoilers

Rebecca wrote: "The Lady Astronaut popularity confounds me - the weak MC ..."

I can see all of your points, and as I was reading the book, I thought some of it was really stupid, just the things you are talking about . But I couldn't put it down. That's probably why. It is so seldom these days that I get a book I want to stay up all night reading.

P.S. I think the current book, The Relentless Moon, is much better than either of the others.