Do Better: SFF without Sexual Violence discussion
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Hey everyone! Someone told me about this group and I just wanted to poke my head in to say how lovely it is to see a community forming around the idea of books that don't rely on sexual violence. I hope you all find enrichment and joy together. Cheers!- Sarah Gailey
Sarah wrote: "Hey everyone! Someone told me about this group and I just wanted to poke my head in to say how lovely it is to see a community forming around the idea of books that don't rely on sexual violence. I..."Is this real life?? I can't believe you stopped by our group to say hello, that is so nice of you! You were the inspiration, to begin with!
Mod
Mod
I feel like we just had our official group ribbon cutting 😁
Hi Sarah! It's so wonderful of you to stop by and wish us good luck - thank you for your support! 🤩🥰
Woot!!! Thank you, Sarah, for the support.
What a privilege to have Sarah herself commenting! With your inspiring words we hope to Do better
Sarah wrote: "Hey everyone! Someone told me about this group and I just wanted to poke my head in to say how lovely it is to see a community forming around the idea of books that don't rely on sexual violence. I..."You are so kind! Thank you for stopping by and for your inspiring efforts towards this cause :).
Mod
If you're interested reading Sarah's work with us, we have a few options: 😁
1) Upright Women Wanted - was voted the November book of the month at our sister group, Womxn of the Future HERE
Since we couldn't wait until November, we've scheduled a couple more:
2) Magic for Liars - Our other sister group (I swear there are only 2), Worlds Beyond the Margins has decided to buddy read this one starting this week HERE
3) STET - Next week, this is the short story of the week at Worlds Beyond the Margins . If you're like me and love a creative, unconventional narrative, it's a must read!
∆ Available online for free @ Fireside Magazine HERE
∆ Worlds Beyond the Margins discussion HERE
NOTE: Both groups are private to exclude bots and trolls, all others are welcome!
Beige wrote: "For our members not familiar with Sarah Gailey, please do check out their list of books & stories.
If you're interested reading Sarah's work with us, we have a few options: 😁
1) [book:Upright W..."
Loving all the Sarah content *desperately joins them all*
If you're interested reading Sarah's work with us, we have a few options: 😁
1) [book:Upright W..."
Loving all the Sarah content *desperately joins them all*
Hi guys, just want to say that I did not join to be a silent lurker. I just had this stupid injury and am on medication and my concentration span is very tiny. I always see your updates on my dashboard and I will join you. Just not today.I greatly enjoyed Upright Women Wanted!
Mod
Glad you could drop by to say hello, Eule! Take your time, get better, and join us whenever you feel like it! :)
I'm just starting the audio of To Be Taught, If Fortunate. It seems many of you liked this. Do you do buddy reads here?
Mod
We aren't planning on buddy reads here (any time soon). However, we do have 2 other groups where we do buddy read and you are most welcome.
We recently read To Be Taught, If Fortunate at Womxn of the Future and have a thread for it there. If you wanted to comment, I and likely others would join in. Its one of my favs and my best example of books that do better in so many different areas, not just SV. I can't wait to see what you think 😀
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
I see The Booking by Ramsey Campbell listed as “being questioned.” I own it and will be happy to read it this weekend and offer some input. :)
Mod
Thank you, that'd be super helpful, if you feel like it :)
Happy reading then, and let us know how it goes!
This along with the Sarah Gailey reads (so many of hers online!) and all these others to read! Being a passionate reader is perfect!https://www.freesfonline.net/authors/...
I have a question re Authors. I saw that you’ve listed 3 who support pragmatically and financially (:(((Opposition to LGBT+ rights, feminism, etc. Do we also get to include Authors whose work is consistently sexist, as in, objectification of women, or homo/transphobic, ethnicity bigoted, racist, so forth?
Reading Reindeer wrote: "I have a question re Authors. I saw that you’ve listed 3 who support pragmatically and financially (:(((Opposition to LGBT+ rights, feminism, etc. Do we also get to include Authors whose work is c..."
It looks like there is an upcoming discussion about this topic in the group (starting October 20). Here is a link to that thread, in case you want to turn on notifications: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Yay! Thanks much, Mark!!
Reading Reindeer wrote: "Yay! Thanks much, Mark!!"Sure thing! And thanks for being the verifying reader for The Booking, since I'm the one who originally suggested it for the shelf. :)
I'm happy to! Ramsey Campbell is a go-to author for me, so if he fails in some way, sad I shall be.:((I'll jump into this afternoon, just as soon as I've finished the super Chilling Effect
Reading Reindeer wrote: "I'm happy to! Ramsey Campbell is a go-to author for me, so if he fails in some way, sad I shall be.:(Oh that's awesome! I don't run into many Campbell readers on GR... I've only read three of his books, but I've purchased another six that I need to get to soon-ish :D. Dark Companions is one of my favorite short story collections by any author (the only reason I gave it 4 instead of 5 stars is because the stories start to feel same-y after a while... I probably should have spread out reading it more).
@ReadingI’m also very excited for authors week b/c I have authors that I’ve been dying to discuss with others...And also, I have a lot of opinions about that :)
Rebecca wrote: "@ReadingI’m also very excited for authors week b/c I have authors that I’ve been dying to discuss with others...And also, I have a lot of opinions about that :)"
Meeee tooooo! I already have my Bad Authors list on standby :D
Following yesterday's discussion on The Booking:As it turned out, I had read and reviewed The Booking by Ramsey Campbell in 2018 (review linked below) so I reread it last evening. I see no reason not to shelve it here, no violence. It's deeply psychological and metaphysical, Speculative. It's "weird" but not violent, sexist, etc. The female character(s) are offstage for the most part, but not excluded. The story focuses on the male character's psyche.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Mod
Thank you so much! This has been added to our group bookshelf 😁
I've looked at the Group's Bookshelf. Thanks for having that. Its very helpful! I'm going to try The Famished Road We'll see how it turns out.
On about page 100 in The Famished Road. There is a fair amount of violence in it. There was a part I didn't like which had...how to say it without adding a spoiler...nudity and a disturbing act. I might take it off the list if I were you.
Mod
Hi, Joanne :)
Could I ask you to clarify your comment, please? Nudity per se wouldn't qualify a book for exclusion from our shelf, unless you're referring to a state that's been imposed on a character? Or is the nudity in this case a form of harassment or an unwelcome sexual advance? A "disturbing act" seems equally ambiguous - who is it disturbing for, the character on the receiving end? (Sorry for the unpleasant line of questioning, but we try to be as diligent as we can 😉)
Mod
And it's still only 3 books out of 8 🙄
Mod
From what I remember of my research of this title, it will definitely need a tag for violence. I remember many reviews called that out, but stated none of it was sexual.
Our updated guidelines (still a work in progress) are below, if you think this book has content we usually exclude, please let us know. ☺️
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
I have just finishedAn Absolutely Remarkable Thing which was on the "Hope Punk" reading list given to me by Biege. I would say yes, there was very little violence in it. The neat thing about it is when there is a violent part, the author warns the reader and actually says "you can skip this part if you want." I did that! I found the book an interesting commentary on social media. The story had a mysterious tone to it which I liked. Funny thing about this book. When I first started it, I stopped listening to it. I wasn't that LGBTQ tolerant. This book has an aspect of that. However, about 5 or 6 months later, I have changed in that aspect of my life. I am now more aware than I was about LGBTQ due to some new friends I have recently made. After I went back to the book, I started enjoying it. I wouldn't say it was a great book but it was a good book.
Mod
I too enjoy a bit of 4th wall breakage in books and movies 😉
"I am now more aware than I was about LGBTQ due to some new friends I have recently made"
Thank you for sharing. Our world could certainly use a lot more tolerance. I'm glad you've found a path that is opening your heart towards others.
Mod
Five Epic Fantasies with Gender Equal Societies
https://www.tor.com/2015/04/22/five-e...
Lackey and Moon do have content that is not welcome by ppl avoiding SV. I don't remember how on-page it was, or how necessary, but I do remember they're both books I wouldn't recommend to add to our shelves. Sorry I can't remember more specifics.
Beige wrote: "@Mark - I remember you saying you'd like to find older fantasy that met our group guidelines. I'm not sure about SV content, but these likely don't contain unacknowledged sexism....Five Epic Fant..."
I forgot to reply to this earlier... how rude of me! Thank you for the link, Jo. I’ve not read ANY of these, so it certainly gives me something to explore. :)
And thanks to Cheryl and Kaa for the heads up on those two authors!
Has anyone here read or skimmed A.I. Insurrection? It's a group read at Space Opera Fans, I intended to read it in a couple of days, but a member has posted just now that it has a paedophilic character. :(((If this one has already been discussed, I apologize.
Mod
No, sorry. Might be tough to get an opinion, there are only 30 ratings and 14 reviews.
I'll guess I'll be a group Guinea pig then, read it and see. Thanks for responding.
Reading Reindeer Emigrates To Pluto wrote: "I'll guess I'll be a group Guinea pig then, read it and see. Thanks for responding."If you do find that content, please add a content warning to your review, as well as letting this group know. That's one of my big no-nos.
r/fantasy really makes me want to tear my God Damned eyes out. Some people don’t seem to understand how basic recommendations work!Person: i want grim/dark fantasy without rape being used gratuitously/sexual abuse(Godspeed friend that sub genre is mostly a cesspit when it comes to SV/SA)
Comments: recommendations are book where first chapter the protagonist rapes some girls(but hey it’s okay because it doesn’t happen much after that!), another book where a nine year old is raped in the first fucking chapter, a book where a lesbian is forced to have sex and pretend to like it with her husband or her female lover will be condemned to a life of gang rape etc
Some of the recommendations are appropriate but the fact that the above was also recommended boils my blood.
Mod
Perfect example of why we're being as careful and requiring a mod validation. We may seem slow and nitpicky, but I suspect our bookshelf will become the most reliable 😉
Beige wrote: "Ayo wrote: "r/fantasy really makes me want to tear my God Damned eyes out..."Perfect example of why we're being as careful and requiring a mod validation. We may seem slow and nitpicky, but I sus..."
God yes 😭 be as nitpicky as you want. I'd rather have strict requirements than that
It's not even about nitpickyness those recommendations didn't even try!
Mod
In their mind, they may have felt they were trying. Or maybe they're a more sophisticated troll, trying to stir up crap without getting booted. You just never know with Reddit. You're a brave soldier hanging out there.
Beige wrote: "Ayo wrote: "those recommendations didn't even try..."In their mind, they may have felt they were trying. Or maybe they're a more sophisticated troll, trying to stir up crap without getting booted..."
3rd option they are so used to and desensitised to sexual violence in fiction that recommending the exact opposite just doesn't cross the mind. Also these were multiple different people 😬. One might be a troll 4-5 others are just trully desensitised.
Mod
Yeah.
We're here whenever you need a break from all that 😉
We're here whenever you need a break from all that 😉"Thanks 😂 my brain can only take so much damage.
Do Better: SFF without Sexual Violence
Books mentioned in this topic
Wake (other topics)Wake (other topics)
Heart's Blood (other topics)
Nightmare Magazine, Issue 80 (other topics)
The Mirror Empire (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Kameron Hurley (other topics)Deborah A. Wolf (other topics)
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