Do Better: SFF without Sexual Violence discussion
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Machina by Fran Wilde does not contain any dubious consent or rape/sex scenes. There is neither any discrimination and it is cyberpunk with a mc who is lgbt
Mod
Perfect!!! I've added it to the shelves.
I just finished A Wizard’s Guide to Defensive Baking and it is wholesome. The Murderbot Diaries: Books 1-4 don't have sexual violence.
I think The City We Became was also safe.
I don't remember any sexual violence in Binti: The Complete Trilogy, but I don't trust my memory on this for sure.
I don't believe any of the violence in The Outside was sexual.
Bellwether is safe, although it is hard to put in a genre and some might argue it isn't scifi.
The Dispossessed
Remnant Population
Annihilation
Kristen wrote: "I just finished A Wizard’s Guide to Defensive Baking and it is wholesome.
The Murderbot Diaries: Books 1-4 don't have sexual violence.
I think [book:The City We ..."
Thanks for all the recommendations it is much appreciated
The Murderbot Diaries: Books 1-4 don't have sexual violence.
I think [book:The City We ..."
Thanks for all the recommendations it is much appreciated
Following Christina's suggestion to search reviews for "sexual violence" I can affirm that my suggestions seem safe except for Remnant Population which does have some sexism/misogyny which is definitely critiqued and defied.
Kristen wrote: "Following Christina's suggestion to search reviews for "sexual violence" I can affirm that my suggestions seem safe except for Remnant Population which does have some sexism/misogyny w..."
Thanks for updating we typically check to make sure but all are books are up for criticism and discrimination can be an easy one to "slip"
Thanks for updating we typically check to make sure but all are books are up for criticism and discrimination can be an easy one to "slip"
Disclaimer: This list contains a lot of space opera because this genre is really great at staying free of these things.I've just finished Finder, a funny space opera novel by Suzanne Palmer, which was also entirely free of sexual violence, dubious consent, racism, etc.
Sisters of the Vast Black by Lina Rather is about nuns in space and also free of all those. There's a lesbian couple in the book which is accepted without homophobia.
House of Suns by Alastair Reynolds also qualifies - there's violence, but not sexual. There are also several male and female clones of the same original person (a female scientist), and nobody has an issue with the female scientist becoming male. No sexism, homophobia, racism, etc. anywhere, although people have some xenophobia about androids, which is addressed in the novel.
Bloodline by Claudia Gray, is a book all about Leia and the fall of the New Republic, and how she becomes friends with a male opponent. It deals with her traumatic memories, but none of them contain sexual violence, etc.
Red Sister by Mark Lawrence, while very violent, contains no sexual violence, and same-sex relationships are also fully accepted. Some of the characters have prejudices against people of the ice tribes, who seem a little bit inspired by Inuit culture, but this is fully addressed and reversed. Same applies to Grey Sister. Haven't read Holy Sister yet, so can't say.
Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds - there is violence and brain surgery with dubious consent, but no sexual violence nor any sex with dubious consent. No racism, sexism nor other problematic issues.
Acadie by Dave Hutchinson - also free of such issues.
We Are Legion (We Are Bob) by Dennis E. Taylor - issue-free (and funny).
- I disagree with putting Ancestral Night on the group shelf since it thematizes sexual violence and the ensuing trauma a lot, so for people trying to avoid that trigger it wouldn't be a good choice.
The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson is also issue-free. There is some prejudice against people with dark eyes (and against fantasy creatures called Parshendi) which the characters face, but it's fully addressed and fought against in the story.
One Fell Sweep by Ilona Andrews - issue-free fantasy/sci-fi hybrid.
The Three-Body Problem by Liu Cixin also qualifies.
Elantris by Brandon Sanderson - it's been a few years since I read this, but I don't remember any problematic content nor sexual violence, etc.
Whoa, just remembered that “the city we became” actually has tons of racism/sexism/homophobia! It is all portrayed as resoundingly wrong and rebuked, but it is portrayed.
Eva wrote: "Disclaimer: This list contains a lot of space opera because this genre is really great at staying free of these things.
I've just finished Finder, a funny space opera novel by [aut..."
Thank you for your detailed account on all the books, I will add them right now and I will remove [book:Ancestral Night|26159745] from the shelf ASAP
Hmm, I think if it is addressed and portrayed as wrong then it shouldn't be a problem but I'll see what others think.
I've just finished Finder, a funny space opera novel by [aut..."
Thank you for your detailed account on all the books, I will add them right now and I will remove [book:Ancestral Night|26159745] from the shelf ASAP
Hmm, I think if it is addressed and portrayed as wrong then it shouldn't be a problem but I'll see what others think.
And there is a sexual assault. 🤦🏻♀️ It is all coming back to me now... definitely don’t include “city we became”
Kristen wrote: "And there is a sexual assault. 🤦🏻♀️ It is all coming back to me now... definitely don’t include “city we became”"
Luckily we didn't add it to the shelves!
Luckily we didn't add it to the shelves!
How do you view sexual violence being mentioned but not portrayed nor described in the book? I'd love to recommend Cage of Souls by Adrian Tchaikovsky, but the (male) protagonist does very subtly imply that sexual violence happened to him while he was in prison (but he doesn't want to talk about it). For me, that would be okay and totally non-triggering. I was actually amazed that the author was able to portray such an apocalyptic, dark world without any descriptions of sexual violence. How do others see this? Could we add it to the group shelf?
Eva wrote: "How do you view sexual violence being mentioned but not portrayed nor described in the book? I'd love to recommend Cage of Souls by Adrian Tchaikovsky, but the (mal..."
As a group, we try not to include books that have any off-screen sexual assault or implied instances. While it is different for everyone I don't want to make any exceptions. For me, off-screen instances personally can have the worst impact on me because it ends up being on my mind the whole time of what happened etc, though that example specifically wouldn't trigger me.
As a group, we try not to include books that have any off-screen sexual assault or implied instances. While it is different for everyone I don't want to make any exceptions. For me, off-screen instances personally can have the worst impact on me because it ends up being on my mind the whole time of what happened etc, though that example specifically wouldn't trigger me.
I am currently reading Prime Deceptions by Valerie Valdes. 50 pages left and so far no sexual violence. This is the second book in a series, but I have not read the first one yet.I want to add that To Be Taught, If Fortunate also is the second book, book one is The Way to A Small Angry Planet and while I have not read it yet, from what I hear it might fit the bill, too.
Eule wrote: "I am currently reading Prime Deceptions by Valerie Valdes. 50 pages left and so far no sexual violence. This is the second book in a series, but I have not read the first one yet.
I want to add th..."
Just added to the shelf! I will double-check about the first book in the duology
I want to add th..."
Just added to the shelf! I will double-check about the first book in the duology
Mod
The Murderbot Diaries: Books 1-4 don't have sexual violence...."
First, thank you so much for your suggestions! I've added all but one. There was one book that didn't get listed because GR reviews mentioned an "attempted rape" and that is The Dispossessed
A key comment to you and anyone else reading this. I don't want anyone to ever feel bad for suggesting something that we don't add to our bookshelf-database. You're doing a us huge favour, there are so many SFF books out there and your contributions really help speed up the process. We really appreciate your time and effort 😁
Mod
My apologies, our group guidelines weren't clear enough. I've updated them to state....
please avoid suggesting books where sexism, racism, homophobia or transphobia are included and NOT addressed/condemned
We're okay with books that explore these issues, but not books that are in fact sexist, racist, homophobic and transphobic. This list is a starting point and we may add to it as members raise additional concerns.
All that to say, Remnant Population has been added to our shelves as it appears to features themes of sexism, but isn't sexist. Let me know if you disagree 🙂
Beige wrote: "All that to say, Remnant Population has been added to our shelves as it appears to features themes of sexism, but isn't sexist. Let me know if you disagree 🙂."No, I totally agree. It is a delightful story about a woman liberating herself from sexism and agism. :)
Mod
Yay! Space opera!
And thank you for providing so much context for each suggested book! Note to other members, this level of detail is not a requirement, but super appreciated 😁😁😁
Another thank you for giving me a male Scifi author I feel okay about trying. Female rep seems to be a big complaint in a lot of older, male authored SFF. Here is my favourite comments from a GR review for Revelation Space
"Imagine that - half the people are female. What's really shocking is that this simple fact, which ought to be totally ordinary, is noteworthy because it's so rare in science fiction. The other even more remarkable thing is they're written like... people. See that, science fiction authors? Was that so hard? IN YOUR FACE, science fiction patriarchy! "
Comments/Questions based on further research....
We Are Legion (We Are Bob) is an interesting one. A lot of complaints about the lack of female rep and the alien take on women, but many of these same reviewers gave it good scores. More of complaint of omission than blatant sexism, so it makes it on shelves
The Three-Body Problem - I haven't read it, but a few of the GR reviews warned of an old school sexist overtone in the book, even though it features women with careers. I saw similar comments when it was the book of the month at another group.
For example...https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
What do you think, should it stay or go?
Beige wrote: ".First, thank you so much for your suggestions! I've added all but one. There was one book that didn't get listed because GR reviews mentioned an "attempted rape" and that is The DispossessedA key comment to you and anyone else reading this. I don't want anyone to ever feel bad for suggesting something that we don't add to our bookshelf-database. You're doing a us huge favour, there are so many SFF books out there and your contributions really help speed up the process. We really appreciate your time and effort 😁
"
Oh man, I totally don't remember an attempted rape in Dispossessed. :-/ My memory isn't the greatest. Now that I'm trying to think of books free of sexual violence I'm appalled at how ubiquitous it is!
Thanks for the reassurance about it being fine to make bad suggestions. :-P I'll try to keep adding to the list. Love this project!
Beige wrote: "The Three-Body Problem - I haven't read it, but a few of the GR reviews warned of an old school sexist overtone in the book, even though it features women with careers. I saw similar comments when it was the book of the month at another group.For example...https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
What do you think, should it stay or go?"
Interesting...I don't particularly remember it being very sexist. I've heard others complain that the characters aren't well developed and I'd agree, but the male characters aren't developed either. "3 Body" shines in its ideas and plot...not its characters. So, I don't know. I think it is ok, but maybe I would change my mind if I reread it with the lens that the women are too traditional and feminine. Although, is there anything wrong with portraying feminine women? I vote it is ok.
Mod
Eva, that is a really great question and one I think we'll revisit many times over as our group grows and discussions continue.
Since the theme of the group is no sexual violence, we felt we should take a low tolerance position and not include any the following:
1) Sexual assault on screen
2) Sexual assault off screen
3) Sexual assault that occurred in the past, with very few details provided
4) Domestic violence in adult relationships
5) Child sexual abuse/pedophile characters
There are other types of violence in the books on our shelves. For example, a backstory of childhood violence/neglect is a common in SFF and we have agreed to include this. However, we'll make judgements on a case by case basis. If a book has childhood violence as its main theme, we'll likely not add it to our shelves.
Mod
My memory is super faulty. In the wbtm thread on this topic, I shared just how blind I'd become to content with sexual violence. This project is really helping me undo that.
And we're here to help! Thankfully, GR reviews are a great resource and the mods of this group will validate every suggestion before it goes onto the shelves.
I want to say that there is no sexual violence in This Is How You Lose the Time War. Anyone else remember something I'm forgetting?
Kristen and Beige, I'll have to remove Annihilation because I have discovered it contains a recount of a dubious sexual situation (mentioned in a review)
Kaa wrote: "I want to say that there is no sexual violence in This Is How You Lose the Time War. Anyone else remember something I'm forgetting?"
Unfortunately, we can't add This Is How You Lose the Time War due to mention of rape
Unfortunately, we can't add This Is How You Lose the Time War due to mention of rape
I was almost sure that Annihilation and Time War were ok... Is nothing safe?? 😭
Mod
I've been browsing around my shelf and I'm quite positive these titles could be considered safe... at least, I don't remember them containing anything that would made them unsuitable for our shelf, and I didn't notice anything while browsing through the reviews. I'm going to add them later today, unless someone raises issues with them 😁
The Goblin Emperor
Tooth and Claw
The Hidden Girl and Other Stories
Made Things & Dogs of War
Winter Tide
To Say Nothing of the Dog
The Black God's Drums
A Night in the Lonesome October
Provenance
Mod
I was about to add the Johannes Cabal series by Jonathan L. Howard to the list I just shared but then realized that since it features two examples of fridging - both very prominent and essential to the furthering of the plot development and the growth of the two male leads: in short, textbook examples of the "Women in Refrigerators" trope - maybe we'd want to avoid stuff like that too?
Tropes like this fall squarely under the gendered violence umbrella, which I think should be left out of our shelf too, right? What do you think?
Elena C. wrote: "I would have bet money on Annihilation being safe as well... thank you, Christina! 😉I've been browsing around my shelf and I'm quite positive these titles could be considered safe... at least, I ..."
Oh no, not Vita Nostra! Remember how (view spoiler)
Elena C. wrote: "Tropes like this fall squarely under the gendered violence umbrella, which I think should be left out of our shelf too, right? What do you think?"I completely agree.
Mod
I've been browsing around my shelf and I'm quite positive these titles could be considered saf..."
Gah. True, my brain completely removed that gross little tidbit. I knew I'd better ask 😅 Thank you.
Unfortunately, I have found so far a lot in your list Elena don't make the requirements but I need a second opinion on The Goblin Emperor (no blame, of course, I had to double-check a lot of my books and found I was wrong but luckily didn't add them) I'll tell you which ones I found from reviews were AOK
Also:
I have added
Jurassic Park
The Lost World
The Library of the Unwritten
From memory neither of them broke the rules and nothing showed up in reviews but let me know if any should be removed
Also:
I have added
Jurassic Park
The Lost World
The Library of the Unwritten
From memory neither of them broke the rules and nothing showed up in reviews but let me know if any should be removed
Mod
No problem! I shared the list rather than add the books right away because I'm painfully aware my memory is sadly deficient 😅
ah I think I'm going to have to start using content warnings in my reviews for that reason and no worries you still added a few to the shelves
Ones I found that are all good from reviews
Made Things
Dogs of War
To Say Nothing of the Dog
A Night in the Lonesome October
The imperial radch trilogy and Provenance
Ones I found that are all good from reviews
Made Things
Dogs of War
To Say Nothing of the Dog
A Night in the Lonesome October
The imperial radch trilogy and Provenance
Elena C. wrote: "Unfortunately, I have found so far a lot in your list Elena don't make the requirements"No problem! I shared the list rather than add the books right away because I'm painfully aware my memory is..."
My memory is garbage too and I only remembered that instance in Vita Nostra because we specifically talked about it. But I think it goes beyond that; I think we've become so used to seeing sexual violence in everything we read and watch, that a lot of times our brain doesn't even register some of the instances as "violence" or we just simply shrug it off as something that we almost can't avoid.
Which makes this group/list al the more important, not only because we're creating a useful database but also because we're drawing more attention to the fact that it's much needed, by realizing just how many books (and movies) suffer from this. I mean we all knew this is a problem but did you imagine the extent? I, for one, can't believe how difficult it is to find books that fit the bill!
Mod
Ones I found that are all good from reviews
[book:Ma..."
Can I ask why you feel like the others don't make the cut? Garbage memory aside, I'd like to know how each of us interpret our guidelines, so as to avoid flooding the thread with useless recs ;)
Imperial Radch: contains some sexual violence (e.g. an abusive relationship in book 2) and several mentions of rape (not described in detail, but as a regular background occurrence when the Radch conquers a planet). I wouldn't call it problematic or triggering, but since we're trying to list only stuff that is completely without even mentions of rape (just realized our board here would definitely not qualify if it was a novel), then we can't include it. I've thought of some more books that should be fine:
The Tea Master and the Detective
All Systems Red
Walking to Aldebaran
The Singularity Trap
To Be Taught, If Fortunate
Some of them are probably already on our shelf.
Mod
Me too, once you mentioned that episode! I can clearly remember us discussing about it, now! What worries me is that that bit and our own discussion about it must have been filed by my brain in the recess of my memory or something 😂
I think we've become so used to seeing sexual violence in everything we read and watch, that a lot of times our brain doesn't even register some of the instances as "violence" or we just simply shrug it off as something that we almost can't avoid.
Yeah, that's definitely true, and I'm sure it has its impact. But apparently even when we are vigilant, and we do notice the problematic stuff, and even talk about it, like with Vita Nostra, we (or at least this is evidently what happens to me specifically, and why I'm having trouble finding reads that are truly safe) still gloss over it once some time has passed. That, I find really kind of worrying, and I'm a bit upset with myself.
Mod
Mmm... I don't remember rape ever being outwardly mentioned, but it's true that it's heavily implied that as the Radch advances in its conquest, abuses of all kinds do happen to the oppressed populace. Off the list it goes!
Beige wrote: "Since the theme of the group is no sexual violence, we felt we should take a low tolerance position and not include any the following:"I'd suggest to add these clarifications in the entry post because with time, this thread will grow and new people probably won't read pages worth of backlog. If these clarifications are added to the first post right away, we won't have to write the same comment over and over again in the future. It also helps those who want to help with suggestions so they know what kind of books we're looking for.
This makes it possible for everyone to be up to date without having to follow the thread meticulously and we can add/subtract bullet points whenever needed.
Also, I've been thinking about the role of authors themselves because I would hate to see people like JKR, Bradley or Card put on the list. JKR is an open transphobe and is using her power, money and influence to harass and endanger the lives of trans people, especially trans women. Bradley raped her own daughter. Card uses his power and money to fund anti-LGBQT+ hate groups.
I think that if we want to create a list with books that don't feature sexual violence, we should also keep in mind that some authors are perpetuating violence against marginalised communities, too, and that their hatred, even if they write books without sexual violence, should not be "rewarded" with a place on the shelf.
This would further enhance our stance and would mean that we also make sure that we don't financially support authors who dehumanise other communities. Also, there are a lot of misogynistic writers in SFF (sad puppies anyone?), racists and homophobes and it would make sense, in my opinion, that if we carefully curate a list that we also take into account the people who write the stories.
Maybe we could have a separate shelf of books that mention such topics, but do not feature on-page occurrences? I know that people with PTSD often get triggered if it actually happens in the story, but are fine if a character only mentions that they are a reality that sometimes occurs (but shouldn't).
Mod
Of those you shared, we haven't added Walking to Aldebaran & The Singularity Trap yet: the former comes with a content warning for torture, but I'm assuming it isn't gendered violence?
Elena C. wrote: "Eva wrote: "Imperial Radch: contains some sexual violence (e.g. an abusive relationship in book 2) and several mentions of rape (not described in detail, but as a regular background occurrence when..."E.g. from Ancillary Justice:
"But One Esk would never beat me or humiliate me, or rape me, for no purpose but to show its power over me, or to satisfy some sick amusement.” She looked at me. “Would you?” “No, Divine,” I said. “The soldiers of Justice of Ente Issa did all of those things."
Or from Ancillary Sword:
“All of you! You take what you want at the end of a gun, you murder and rape and steal, and you call it bringing civilization. And what is civilization, to you, but us being properly grateful to be murdered and raped and stolen from?"
Personally I'm against digging into the private lives of authors: if the book is free of all of the things we object to, it can go on the list. It's meant to help people find trigger-free books, or to quickly check if the book they want to read will contain sexual violence, homophobia, etc., not for us to go through every writer's entire twitter history to see if they've ever said something we disagree with. That would just end in us endlessly gossiping instead of simply looking at the actual books themselves.
Elena C. wrote: "Eva wrote: "Imperial Radch: contains some sexual violence (e.g. an abusive relationship in book 2) and several mentions of rape (not described in detail, but as a regular background occurrence when..."No, it's not gendered. :-)
Mod
Thanks for the research, Eva: I deleted the rec from the list I shared earlier :)
Do you remember if Provenance is safe? I think it is, but it's clear that it holds little weight 🙄😂
Adding Walking to Aldebaran & The Singularity Trap to the list, then!
I've only read the first two Imperial Radch books, so I'm the wrong person to ask about Mercy or Providence. 🙈But if we ever add a shelf for "mentioned but off-page" then we can put the Radch there.
Mod
But I'm definitely open to discuss how to go about implementing what Gretel is suggesting, if the rest of you wants to pursue that line as well: I think that Eva's concerns are really valid ones though, and should be kept in mind.
Sure thing and sorry about the mistake on the trilogy! We've been thinking of adding a topic of removed books with reasonings not that we're expecting everyone to read through every book but it would be good to update for mods/users.
Reasoning for other books:
The Goblin Emperor I haven't read but I saw silvana's review mentioned rape
Tooth and Claw Sexual assault, rape
The Hidden Girl and Other Stories Sexual assault
Winter Tide Rape is mentioned
The Black God's Drums Racism, slavery
Reasoning for other books:
The Goblin Emperor I haven't read but I saw silvana's review mentioned rape
Tooth and Claw Sexual assault, rape
The Hidden Girl and Other Stories Sexual assault
Winter Tide Rape is mentioned
The Black God's Drums Racism, slavery
Do Better: SFF without Sexual Violence
Books mentioned in this topic
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A Pale Light in the Black (other topics)
Creative Surgery (other topics)
Creative Surgery (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
K.B. Wagers (other topics)Bindiya Schaefer (other topics)
Mike Brooks (other topics)
Charlie Jane Anders (other topics)
Aliette de Bodard (other topics)
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All members are welcome to suggest books to be added to the group's bookshelves. To qualify a book must:
1. Belong to the SciFi, Fantasy, Horror or Speculative Fiction genres
2. Be considered Adult, no Young Adult
3. Contain no sexual violence: 4. Have not already been added to our bookshelf
Also, please avoid suggesting books where sexism, racism, homophobia or transphobia are included and NOT acknowledged/condemned
A NOTE ON ACCURACY:
⭐ Once a month, all recommended books are vetted by a moderator before being added to the bookshelf-database
⭐⭐ If you notice a book that shouldn't be on the bookshelf-database, please speak up and state the reasons
CONTENT WARNING:
This group's bookshelf only excludes SV and may contain other forms of violence or elements that other readers may find disturbing. Content warning tags are used on the bookshelf, but are not a fully comprehensive list. We strongly encourage those with specific triggers to use GR review's keyword search to determine if a book is right for you.
When recommending books you've read, if possible, please also provide the common content warnings for our bookshelf-database. Here is our initial list: (view spoiler)[
Animal abuse
Animal Death
Body Image - (fat shaming, eating disorders)
Bullying
Child Abuse
Child Death
Child Neglect
Graphic Violence
Homophobia (that is acknowledged)
Low female rep
Oppression
Racism (that is acknowledged)
Self harm
Sexism (that is acknowledged)
Slavery
Transphobia (that is acknowledged)
(hide spoiler)]
WANT TO SEE THE BOOKS WE'VE EXCLUDED?
We compile a regular update of books that we've excluded/removed from our bookshelves and list the reason. The updates can be found HERE