Dickensians! discussion
David Copperfield - Group Read 1
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May - June 2020: David Copperfield: chapters 1-14
message 51:
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Katy
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Apr 18, 2020 08:36AM
I just joined this group and will probably join this read. I have to get the book first. I read one other Dickens book in a group with Jean and she is a wealth of information about him, which made the read that much more enjoyable.
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Mod
So please let's stick to 1st May. And if you happen to start a little early, then please don't divulge anything here!
We can chat generally about the book though :) Which is your favourite film version, if you have one? I have two in mind, so let's see if they come up :)
My local library has a 2002 DVD of David Copperfield. And Amazon prime has a 1999 series of David Copperfield. I am curious if anyone has seen these and what they think.
Mod
The 1999 one is the 2-part miniseries mentioned before, with a young Daniel Radcliffe, way before he "became" Harry Potter.
I think it's really good! As well as Daniel Radcliffe as the young David Copperfield, some names you may know are:
Emilia Fox as Clara Copperfield
Maggie Smith as Betsey Trotwood
Trevor Eve as Edward Murdstone
Zoe Wanamaker as Jane Murdstone
Michael Elphick as Barkis
Alun Armstrong as Dan Peggotty
Pauline Quirke as Clara Peggotty
Mod
Michael Richards as Mr. Wilkins Micawber
Eileen Atkins as Miss Jane Murdstone
Anthony Andrews as Mr. Edward Murdstone
Frank McCusker as Uriah Heep
Hugh Dancy as David Copperfield
Max Dolbey as Young David Copperfield
Sally Field as Aunt Betsey Trotwood
Edward Hardwicke as Mr. Wickfield
Freddie Jones as Barkis
Nigel Davenport as Dan Peggotty
and there's also another in 2019, called "The Personal History of David Copperfield":
The cast for that one includes:
Dev Patel as David Copperfield
Jairaj Varsani as young David Copperfield
Tilda Swinton as Betsey Trotwood
Hugh Laurie as Mr. Dick
Peter Capaldi as Mr. Micawber
Neither of these is my other favourite, though the first has a splendid cast :)
Bionic Jean wrote: "Yes, thanks, but please can we hold back on further comments from the text until 1st. I'm hoping to be able to leave this thread open, not locked, so people can announce themselves as they join i..."
Thanks for the reminder. I didn't realize the starting date. One way to avoid confusion would be to have 2 threads, one for preview, general, upcoming read or whatever you want to call it, where people can opt in and talk in general and another for the first set of chapters.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Ah you have picked out one of my 2 favourites, Debra :)The 1999 one is the 2-part miniseries mentioned before, with a young Daniel Radcliffe, way before he "became" Harry Potter. I think it'..."
Oh my gosh! A young Harry Potter. I did not even recognize him.
I look forward to watching this one.
Mod
Not to worry :) In my first comment, with a bit of background information to the book, I did say that some people may like to start early (just don't tell us!) This is because it is our first ever read, and so we have a couple of weeks without anything. The title of the thread indicates the official dates, making it clear that the group read officially starts in May, and goes through until the end of June, which should obviate any confusion. As soon as it starts, it will say so on our group's home page.
I considered several alternative ways of organising our group reads. As you know, some groups have many threads for one book, and some have just one. Each has its own advantages.
I have chosen neither extreme, in fact, but instead we are following a middle course in "Dickensians!", at least for the first few months while it is becoming established. A preparatory thread won't be needed in the future, since we won't know quite so early what the next read will be. I've explained the general policy in the "What do We Read?" thread, at the top of this folder. Please remember however, that this group has only existed for 6 days (!) so people are still joining and finding their feet here.
Everyone seems quite happy to start off this way, and some have planned their reading accordingly. And to confirm the dates, you will receive a group message a week prior to the read, as per GR policy.
I hope you enjoy the read :)
Jean, I'm really so careless until yesterday I thought we will begin in April. I don't know why I missed the tittle. But I think I was excited because after joining the group I found David Copperfield (amazon editions) free in kindle and I could get its audible at a really low cost. Even I read the first chapter and after that, I saw the comment you said we will begin later. Actually, to begin in May it is better for me. And the first chapter was confusing for me (I don't know why). I read it two times already and I wouldn't mind reading the third time when it's time to read. :))
Mod
So please give yourself as much time as you need! Some parts of David Copperfield are easier than others. I think that when Charles Dickens is writing as David, these parts may seem more difficult, but a lot of the book is conversation, and often very funny, so I hope you will enjoy those parts :) And perhaps watch a film, or listen to a dramatisation, if it helps. Or read an abridgement or extracts, perhaps, if you get stuck. I would so like you to love this book!
Does anyone find it easier listening to Charles Dickens being read aloud, than reading it on the page? I prefer to read on the page (or kindle) - but a good reader helps. As well as the one mentioned, I like to listen to Martin Jarvis reading Dickens. He seems to bring the voices to life :)
Bionic Jean wrote: "Nisa dear, I think you are very brave to read Charles Dickens in English at all! I have friends who are Italian, and German, and they both say how difficult they find him, sometimes..."Jean, thank you for your suggestions and now I'm happy that I have its audiobook narrated by Martin Jarvis. I usually would rather watch the movie after reading the book but If I had a problem reading the book I will try to watch the movie too. It is translated Turkish too but like you said I would rather read in the original language, rather than translation if I can. And I don't have a Turkish translated one and to get it will take some time because I can't get it as an ebook. (If the libraries were opened It wouldn't be a problem.)
Actually the edition I read first was a different one (with illustrations) but after reading the other one (amazon editions) I feel like I enjoy reading it and was easier to understand for me. That could be because I read the same chapter second time so I'm not sure which one the cause for that. But I can say reading A Chrismas Carol was harder even though I knew the story from movies and animations I watched as a child :))
Debra wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "Ah you have picked out one of my 2 favourites, Debra :)The 1999 one is the 2-part miniseries mentioned before, with a young Daniel Radcliffe, way before he "became" Harry Pott..."
So Daniel Radcliffe worked with Maggie Smith when she was Aunt Betsy and of course he worked with her again in Harry Potter.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Hi Robin,Not to worry :) In my first comment, with a bit of background information to the book, I did say that some people may like to start early (just don't tell us!) This is because it is our ..."
Wow! I didn't realize how brand-new the group is. Thank you for all your work on this, Bionic Jean and for creating a new community!
Bionic Jean wrote: "Thanks for saying when you'd like to start, everyone. Although some are willing to be flexible (thank you!) I think from the general feeling, it is still best to keep to the original plan. Many hav..."Until now, I neither read David Copperfield nor watched a movie or a TV series. To be honest, I am not really sure what the book will be about but this is fine by me. It was the same when I started reading Great Expectations for a group read and I loved it.
As we are well on through April I am happy to begin reading on the 1st of May Jean to enable me to finish my present reads. Although I do have the book, anyone with a Kindle can get this book and others by Dickens for free. Thank you Jean for the info re Captain Scott. That must have been such a pleasure and something for the men to look forward to each evening.
Mod
You have that one? Great! And what a coincidence.
I know what you mean about films. I usually like to read a book first, and then the film is a nice reminder. But sometimes it is better to watch the film first! I've decided there is no hard and fast rule about it really, for me.
Mod
Oh yes! That hadn't occurred to me :) Sometimes I think young actors are grateful for the coaching and examples they have from their fellow experienced actors, some of whom are extremely generous with their time. Perhaps these two got on well together :)
"Wow! I didn't realize how brand-new the group is. Thank you for all your work on this, Bionic Jean and for creating a new community!"
Yes, I'm really excited by all the enthusiastic participation. It just shows how very popular Charles Dickens is. And I can't wait for our first group read to start in earnest!
Thank you for your kind words, Robin :)
Mod
Hi Kathrin - and Erin - you have such a treat coming up :)
Mod
Oh you will be able to join in with us? That's excellent news Leila!
Indeed we are lucky nowadays to be able to read all these great classics free, and it's especially opportune at the moment because of the pandemic restrictions.
Yes, isn't it lovely to think of Captain Scott and his men, so far from home and in such an inhospitable environment, but still able to be taken out of themselves for a while, and laugh and cry at David Copperfield's fortunes.
I'll post a couple more titbits like this, to keep us going before the read starts :)
Mod
However, when he was exiled to Siberia for four or five years, Fyodor Dostoyevsky refused to read any books brought to him, except Charles Dickens's David Copperfield and The Pickwick Papers!
Dostoevsky read David Copperfield several times, and was very taken with the character of Mr. Micawber, whom he mentioned in his notes, letters, and diaries. He referred to himself as "Mr. Micawber" and to his wife, Anna Grigorjevna, as "Mrs. Micawber."When they were living in Dresden, he wrote: (view spoiler).
Anna Dostoevskaya confirmed that "Dickens's sense of humour was part of our life. (view spoiler) And Dostoevsky's daughter, Lyubov' Dostoevskaya, wrote in her Memoirs:
"When our father went to Ems, he was not able to read himself because of his work, [so] he made our mother, Anna Grigoryevna, read aloud [to him the works of] Walter Scott and Dickens, this Great Christian, as my father called him in his "Diary of a Writer". During the dinner time my father asked us whether we were impressed by Dickens's novels and [whether we] recollected the episodes from Dickens's works. My father, who forgot the second name of his wife and the face of his sweetheart, remembered the names of all the characters from Dickens' and Walter Scott's novels!"
So both Captain Scott's team on their failing expedition, and Fyodor Dostoyevsky in his period of Siberian exile, both looked to David Copperfield to give them cheer.
Perhaps this bodes well, while we are shut in during the pandemic. If Charles Dickens's David Copperfield can give hope and optimism in such dire circumstances, surely it will entertain us :)
Thanks for this information. I actually like reading Dostoyevsky's works but it never occurred to me that he lived at the same time as Dickens did. Thinking about both their books they tend to write about reality without much glossing over its dark side - with the add-on that I never encountered much humor in Dostoyevsky's works. Great to know that he appreciated this part in Dickens' stories.
Mod
A couple of reputable biographies talk about them meeting, but this has been proved to be a hoax. It's a shame though! Fyodor Dostoyevsky loved the works of Charles Dickens all his life, and was in tears sometimes.
You're right about them both not flinching from the dark side of life Karin, I think, although their style feels so very different. Charles Dickens almost always breaks up the tension by having ridiculous comic cameos straight after a hairraising chapter, but I think Fyodor Dostoyevsky is more merciless.
I’m so glad I checked in here tonight. David Copperfield is still available for free download with Amazon Prime. That made me very happy since my library is still off limits. 🙂
Mod
Mod
We know about Captain Scott and his team, and Fyodor Dostoyevsky's adoration of Dickens's work, so here are a few more great classic writers who loved David Copperfield:
In an 1849 letter to the reader of her publisher, Charlotte Brontë commented:
"I have read David Copperfield; it seems to me very good—admirable in some parts. You said it had affinity to Jane Eyre: it has—now and then—only what an advantage has Dickens in his varied knowledge of men and things!"
Leo Tolstoy judged it to be:
"the best work of the best English novelist"
The love interest between (view spoiler) inspired him to write of (view spoiler) in War and Peace.
Franz Kafka wrote in his diary in 1917, that the first chapter of his novel Amerika had been inspired by David Copperfield.
Henry James said that as a child, he had been moved to tears by the novel. He was hidden under a table, listening, as it was read aloud in the family.
Sigmund Freud said it was his favourite novel.
W. Somerset Maugham also saw it as a "great" work. Although he thought the character of David to be rather weak, he loved the depiction of Mr. Micawber:
"The most remarkable of them is, of course, Mr Micawber. He never fails you."
In a letter to Hugh Walpole in 1936, Virginia Woolf said that she was re-reading it for the sixth time:
"I'd forgotten how magnificent it is."
And last but not least, James Joyce parodied it in Ulysses.
With such a starry cast of literary fans, we really do have a treat in store :)
Seems obvious to me that Margaret Mitchell loved this book. She had Melanie Wilkes reading it to the ladies the night Frank Kennedy is killed. I was quite young when I saw the movie for the first time and very excited that I recognized the opening lines of David Copperfield.
Mod
For many years, David Copperfield was the one book by Charles Dickens which the critics all agreed was a great novel. During the early part of the 20th century Angus Wilson reported that it was considered a "classical" novel, enjoying the same sort of status as War and Peace. Told in the first person, it is an internal or psychological novel. Nowadays though, others of Dickens's novels are sometimes awarded greater literary status - even though it was his own favourite.
It is a fantastic story! But in addition to this ... well hopefully reading the novel itself will reveal that, to those who have never read it before :)
Of course, The Catcher in the Rye famously starts with a dismissive comment about "all that David Copperfield crap" when Holden Caulfield says he isn't going to tell about being born, etc.
Mod
Robin - The Catcher in the Rye is one of those books which I've somehow never got round to reading. Maybe I'll let it sink a couple of places down the list ;)
Michaela wrote: "David Copperfield is also available on Project Gutenberg:https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/766"
I miss Project Gutenberg. I used to get most of my classics from them but due to an ongoing court issue with Germany, I am now geo-blocked. Hope this will change in the future. Until then I get them from my local library and some of them as a Kindle version.
Anyone else starting to read the book tomorrow?
Mod
Certainly this read starts tomorrow :) I'm very excited about it, and glad you're joining in at the start, Kathrin. I'm pleased that we now have 60 members, and lots have said they will too, so for our first group read we will probably have a good discussion.
I've kept posting background information here, before the read, which hopefully people find interesting and adds to our enjoyment. I'll post a little more in the next post.
Mod
Well around the end of 1847, Charles Dickens had started to write a cathartic autobiography, to try to rid himself of some of his unhappy childhood memories - those he was too ashamed to mention in public. But when he reached the point of his unhappy love affair with the banker's daughter Maria Beadnell (immortalised later in Little Dorrit as Flora Finching), he didn't feel able to continue them. His wife also pointed out that publishing it would be very unkind to Dickens's mother (immortalised earlier in Nicholas Nickleby as Mrs Micawber - and several other characters!) So he put it on the back burner.
The previous novel, Dombey and Son, had incorporated some of his early memoirs. The possibilities stirred his imagination. When he was staying in Brighton in February 1849, and started to write David Copperfield, the idea took hold of him again. He wrote to his friend and mentor John Forster,
"I really think I have done it ingeniously and with a very complicated interweaving of truth and fiction."
The countdown has started!
Love all the background material, Jean. I think if Dickens had lead a quieter, less harried, life, his fiction would have suffered--since he incorporated so much of his own actual experiences into the novels.
I will echo what Sara said. Thank you, Jean. I'm ready to begin tomorrow :))).
I'll be ready to start within a day or two. If I'm a few days late, I'll catch up.
I am going to start tonight. I am a very slow reader and not at all sure about reading this.
Mod
I'm sure you'll be fine :) This read lasts for 2 months, and there are 64 chapters. So I'll comment at the rate of about one chapter a day (though not every day of course!) and then we have just 4 chapters extra to fit in somewhere :) Chapter 1 in my copy is 18 pages long, (and probably less in yours, as mine is Large Print). So it will be less than 20 pages a day. Is this OK?
We all read at different rates, and some will rush on ahead, some take it slowly, and some wish to read several books at once. It's all good!
All I ask is that everyone uses spoiler tags where necessary, and when we do, say where we are, (if it's not chapter 15 on 15th, for example.) Thanks!
Sara - so true. Dickens was a bright star, but burned himself out.
Debra wrote: "I am going to start tonight. I am a very slow reader and not at all sure about reading this."It is a lot of pages but it's a relatively easy read in that it is all from one point of view and at first it is a child's view, so no long passages of descriptions or politics, which are what slow me down.
20 pages a day would be okay, if it were the only book I´m reading LOL! ;)
Jean and Robin, thanks for the information. I feel encouraged. I should be able to ease into the story.
Mod
Actually although it is his 8th novel, this is the first novel Dickens wrote from the first person perspective. It was his friend and mentor John Forster who suggested doing this, to vary his style a bit. It also has more conversation than some, which makes it flow better. And I personally think his characters are probably the most entertaining and fully rounded in this book than any other.
Mod
So here we are, right at the beginning of David Copperfield. I put one of the covers for the monthly serial at the beginning of this thread, and here's another. I'm sorry it's a bit hard to see, but maybe you can make out that some of the scenes from the novel are pictured all around the edge. And under the title, David Copperfield it says "Of Blunderstone Rookery". If you've read chapter one now, you'll know that "Blunderstone Rookery" is the whimsical name of the cottage where David was born.
Before choosing the title David Copperfield, Charles Dickens toyed with a few others: "Copperfield's Disclosures", "Mag's Diversions", "Copperfield Survey", "Copperfield's Confessions" and "Copperfield's Entire!"
The full title of this novel - the one he went with - is "The Personal History, Adventures, Experience and Observation of David Copperfield the Younger of Blunderstone Rookery (Which He Never Meant to Publish on Any Account)"
"Copperfield's Disclosures" might just about have worked... But once you're aware that so much of the content is lifted straight from autobiographical notes: ones he had already written but felt too ashamed to publish, the subtitle "(Which He Never Meant to Publish on Any Account)" is just perfect - and quite poignant really.
Chapter One
I'm aware that this chapter seems a bit wordy, if you're unused to reading Victorian novels, or if English isn't your first language. So if this was a struggle, please bear with it, as it does get easier! Charles Dickens was trying to get a lot of information across with this chapter, and also setting the tone, which is light-hearted and entertaining.
We start on the evening of David's birth, and learn that David was born to a young, pretty and clueless, nineteen year old widow, Clara. She has a servant, Peggotty, who looks after her (look how it was Peggotty who had the sense to have her nephew Ham staying there secretly, in case he was needed to fetch the doctor.)
Her aunt (by marriage) Betsey arrives out of the blue and questions her closely, and in the process we learn a little more, eg.,that Clara is just about OK for money. But when Clara's baby turns out to be a boy, (ie., David) Aunt Betsey is so disgusted that she goes off in a huff.
So I'd say, just get the gist of this, and move to the next chapter tomorrow. As I remember, that one is really funny :)
Mod
David Copperfield right from the start is much more lighthearted than many of Charles Dickens's novels. I very much like the fact that he is narrating it. And the titles of the chapter are so very simple "I am born", "I observe", "I have a change" are the first 3 (They made up the first monthly installment).
All his earlier books had a couple of sentences for the chapter headings, and sometimes they acted as spoilers, telling what would happen in the following chapter. I think perhaps many Victorian novels did that. But this is so very streamlined - and I'm noticing that in the dialogue too.
The name of his home, "Blunderstone Rookery" is taken from a village Dickens had seen only a month previously, on a visit to Yarmouth and Lowestoft. And does the word "blunder" also perhaps indicate the way these two "babies" (as Betsey Trotwood termed them) approached the practicalities of life?
Here is it is, in the real life village of "Blundeston", Suffolk:
The Rookery
Mod
Did you notice that Charles Dickens called Aunt Betsey a "fairy" near the end of the chapter? He loved his fairytales :) Now she has stormed off, never to return to that place we are told, we are left wondering what kind of fairy she is. An evil ogre, or a kindly godmother type?
The whole of this chapter has a fairytale feel, to me. David was born on a Friday, and at midnight, both of which we are told were unlucky. And he was born "with a caul" (which I think Sue was asking about earlier).
As Robin explained, a "caul" is part of the membrane enclosing the foetus, and occasionally remains attached to the baby's head. It's traditionally thought to bring good luck to whoever owns it, so was highly marketable, for someone who had to count the pennies, as David's mother did. Another superstition is that it prevents the owner from drowning.
Charles Dickens makes this into such a funny story, with the old woman living until she was 92, and being so proud that she had not drowned. She attributed this entirely to owning the caul, even though "it was, to the last, her proudest boast, that she never had been on the water in her life, except upon a bridge" LOL!
It's a lovely story - and the narrator apologises for "digressing", but as well as entertaining us, it's quite clever. For now we know something else about the people and place young David was born into. They were simple country folk, and superstitious; not very well educated.
Mod
"I don't mind confiding to you, that I can never approach the book with perfect composure, it had such perfect possession of me when I wrote it."
I think you can sense a sort of excitement bubbling up in him - a lighter touch altogether - and more readability. There is a definite difference from his earlier ones. Yet we're very conscious of David's inner thoughts - and already he's impressed on us how powerful and sharp his memory is. We can't quite tell how old the narrator is. He's adult, but perhaps not yet an old man, as he tries to get inside the mind of the child he was. I guess that's why Angus Wilson calls it:
"a Proustian novel of the shaping of life through the echoes and prophecies of memory".
So which parts did you enjoy? Or do you think it's all just "setting the scene" so far? Of course later chapters, with more conversation, won't have quite so much to comment on!
Chapter one went very well. It definitely has a "gleeful exuberance" feel, as Jean said. Aunt Betsey is a little crazy and wild. I am already wondering what will become of the characters we have met so far.
I loved this first chapter and the lighter tone that is very different from some of Dickens' other works (though I enjoy 'gloomy' Dickens too). Even among this lighter tone, there is a reminder of sadness with the gravestone of David's father being one of his earliest memories and his grave being the image to close the chapter.
Betsey Trotwood is a great character, she is so overbearing and rude but in a comical way that you can't help smiling at her. A real contrast to David's quiet mother and the meek doctor. Love the description " like a Saracen's Head in a Dutch clock" ,
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