February 2020 - Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI

[Cherie]

@ Renee. Most of the time, in the crime shows, when the FBI come in and take over, it is because the crime falls under Federal jurisdiction. The local law hates it, because the FBI does not share information - depends on which show you are watching though. By the time the FBI comes in and takes over, the locals have spent a lot of their time and effort into trying to solve the crime, and if they are close, do not want to give up their control. They see it as a big dog - little dog thing.

Do not read the spoiler unless you have finished the book.
In the case of the crimes in this book though (view spoiler)[ All of the local authorities were actually in on, and trying to cover up the crimes, or divert blame. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura (Lclwags)]

I KNEW IT! (view spoiler)[ I knew the doctor brothers were involved in more and more of the murders! Gah! How did this happen?! After reading this book, I feel ashamed of my race. There were apparently far more evil white people than good ones and the good ones failed to protect so many people. (hide spoiler)]
Taking time to process my anger, then I'll be back to read the other spoilers. :)

[Jayme, Moderator]

Laura (Lclwags) wrote: "I KNEW IT! [spoilers removed]
Taking time to process my anger, then I'll be back to read the other spoilers. :)"

What really bothers me is (view spoiler)[ that if it was one person, Ok the guy is a psychopath, but that there were so many people involved. There is something wrong with society. (hide spoiler)]

[Renee]

I agree with Jayme.(view spoiler)[ I wonder if their was a bit of the cult mentality. Hale was charismatic. He worked on the prejudices already in place. I know everyone made their own choices, I still wonder if they would have made them without his influence (hide spoiler)]

[Jayme, Moderator]

Renee wrote: "I agree with Jayme.[spoilers removed]"

That's a very good point, Renee. (view spoiler)[ He seemed to be the mastermind who took advantage of the crazy federal government guardianship laws (hide spoiler)]

[Laura (Lclwags)]

I really enjoyed the comments with history about the FBI and why Kansas City was called incandescent! I’m glad y’all do research while reading. I often say I will, but seldom actually go back to Google things.
Hale - (view spoiler)[ I agree Jayme and Renee, he was a horrible, evil man and it does seem there was something cult like in the way so many people followed along. Although racist people don’t see the other person as human and that’s part of why they treat others so horrendously. I just don’t understand how you can be around someone regularly and still think of them as less than human! These weren’t strangers on the news, these were neighbors and family members! (hide spoiler)]
Ernest Buckhart - (view spoiler)[ I can’t believe his wife stuck by him for so long! I’m glad she finally realized, but how did she not see it sooner?! (hide spoiler)]
Tom White - (view spoiler)[ Finally a decent, intelligent person. I was so nervous that he would be murdered! Being an ally to the Osage was a very dangerous role! (hide spoiler)]
Guardians - (view spoiler)[ WTF?! Why does government think they have the right to control how anyone spends their money?! (hide spoiler)]
Wow the end of the book does seem to drag. The statistics (view spoiler)[ are sickening.
FBI - I never knew any of the background that was in this book, so I found it all fascinating. Hoover seemed like a very strange, insecure person. (hide spoiler)]

[Jayme, Moderator]

Laura (Lclwags) wrote: "I really enjoyed the comments with history about the FBI and why Kansas City was called incandescent! I’m glad y’all do research while reading. I often say I will, but seldom actually go back to Go..."

I totally agree with you about this book. I haven't read a book in a while that made me so mad.

[Jannene]

Agreed. It ticked me off so much.

[Renee]

This book also made me very angry. I wish I could say we have become better. I wonder if humans will ever respect each others differences

[Cherie]

I agree too, about the horrible things that were revealed in the story, even/especially the government participation. It made me mad too. And yes - Hoover was a strange man.

[Laura (Lclwags)]

I'm sure humans will continue to treat each other with fear and disrespect, but the fact that so many of us were enraged by this book gives me hope. I'd like to think that all of us can have a positive impact in our own communities. :)

[PattyMacDotComma]

I loved this one - hated what happened and how, but I really enjoyed how Grann told the story. I wasn't aware there was an issue with when the FBI was 'founded', and had I known, I might have viewed the whole thing a little less favourably. I have a hard time dealing with factual books where the 'facts' are misleading (or wrong).

But here's my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Jayme, Moderator]

PattyMacDotComma wrote: "I loved this one - hated what happened and how, but I really enjoyed how Grann told the story. I wasn't aware there was an issue with when the FBI was 'founded', and had I known, I might have viewe..."

Thanks for sharing your review. After reading the book it makes me wonder what other bits of history have we "unwitnessed" or forgotten.

[PattyMacDotComma]

Jayme wrote: "PattyMacDotComma wrote: "I loved this one - hated what happened and how, but I really enjoyed how Grann told the story. I wasn't aware there was an issue with when the FBI was 'founded', and had I ...

After reading the book it makes me wondering what other bits of history have we "unwitnessed" or forgotten.
"

I suspect there's a lot that's hidden. I think it's one reason stories of the Holocaust continue to be written. So we don't forget or pretend we never knew.

I live in Australia, and only now are some of the atrocities perpetuated on Aboriginal communities being aired in public. Paying bounties on heads brought back in bags is one horrific example, and this comes from historical documents, not tall tales.

Colonisation has done a world of damage!

[Maggie the Muskoka Library Mouse]

I thought that this book read like a novel, even though it is non-fiction. I found that helped me zip through it.

[Grainne]

Definitely Maggie, it’s like a a tale around a campfire told dramatically. It’s hard to believe that it’s not a work of fiction. It was compelling reading. It’s a real page turner.

[Jannene]

I can’t wait for the movie to come out.

[Kristie, Moderator]

I wasn't able to fit this one in when we read it as a group, but I still want to read it. I think I'm going to suggest it to my real life reading group for our nonfiction read next year.

[Cherie]

Jannene wrote: "I can’t wait for the movie to come out."

I have not seen anything about a movie. Do you know when?

[Renee]

I am not sure if I want to see the movie. The story was so brutal. I don't know if I want to see it acted out

[Kristie, Moderator]

Renee wrote: "I am not sure if I want to see the movie. The story was so brutal. I don't know if I want to see it acted out"

I just read Unbroken: A World War II Story of Survival, Resilience and Redemption and felt the same way about that one. I don't know if I could watch it.

[Jannene]

Cherie wrote: "Jannene wrote: "I can’t wait for the movie to come out."

I have not seen anything about a movie. Do you know when?"

Just said 2021. Leo DiCaprio and Robert De Niro are playing in it.