Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion
FRINGE SCIENCE
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Evidence for scientifically advanced Ancient civilizations?
Power means the rate of change of energy, (dE/dt) so I did no see anything that did anything to consume energy. And yes, I say the sarcophagus, but it was not doing anything in particular other than being there. Shafts aligning to stars implies a knowledge of astronomy, but a shaft is just absence of stuff, so yes, while I acknowledge that was there, it does not mean anything other than the ancient Egyptians thought the Pole Star was of religious significance.
Ian wrote: "Power means the rate of change of energy, (dE/dt) so I did no see anything that did anything to consume energy. And yes, I say the sarcophagus, but it was not doing anything in particular other tha..."Ian - I take your word that "Power means the rate of change of energy, (dE/dt)" BUT (and it's a big but) that's according to Man's understanding of the laws of whatever (energy?). Maybe there are other laws at work...
Lance Morcan wrote: "Ian wrote: "Power means the rate of change of energy, (dE/dt) so I did no see anything that did anything to consume energy. And yes, I say the sarcophagus, but it was not doing anything in particul..."It is what the word is defined as in physics. Something else may be happening, but it isn't that :-)
I recommend The Sphinx Mystery: The Forgotten Origins of the Sanctuary of Anubis
I like the hands on manner of the writer. He really gets his hands dirty when investigating ancient sites and crawls in and out of places that you wouldn't dare go into while pointing out ancient constructions that were actually added in the recent past to the original edifice.
My book
introduces the Dong-Yi People, a group people who built advanced Ancient civilization, first in the Shandong Peninsula of China, later spreading to China, the Americas and Oceania, and becoming the root of ancient civilizations of China, the Americas and Oceania. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/soleilm...
The Gobekli Tepe site in Turkey could very well be the world's first civilization. It's a very interesting neolithic site. Apparently the first granaries were invented here- its a major milestone in the development of later cities. The most amazing thing is that the site dates back to 9,500 BC, over 5,000 before the first Sumerian cities of Mesopotamia.
So that predates Egypt, John?
It predates the Egypt we know about. Maybe not the Egypt that carved the Sphinx and built the original Sphinx Temple.I tend to think it was an early re-birth of civilization. The world was recovering from two cataclysms a couple of thousand years apart. We can only speculate about what the world was like before that. Evidence is either lacking or very indirect.
The question is always how old is the Sphinx. Lot's of evidence shows about the time of Turkey site. Even the main stream news is now aware of the issue:http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3077390/ns/...
So if we are talking a really ancient Sphinx, much older than acknowledged, how will it be explained by mainstream academia? How will they say it was possible for such primitive people still in fairly early evolution to have built such a structure?
I think it will be years before mainstream academia can get their heads around this. They still don't want to accept geological evidence because it doesn't fit with what they think they know. One of their objections to the geological evidence was there was no other precedent. Goblekli Tepe is that precedent.There is a tendency towards believing in a gradual evolution in all fields of study. There's no room for catastrophism. It's a huge bias that tends to skew evaluations of any evidence whether it's in archaeology, geology, cosmology, biology, etc.
Our current ideology is that we are the pinnacle of human civilization which resulted from a slow climb starting a few millennia before the common era. Apparently, for the previous 200,000 years, our ancestors sat around circle jerking.
Well there's a fair bit of circle jerking going on in our current Civilization especially in politics!
Point taken, maybe the mainstream has it right. :)
James Morcan wrote: "So that predates Egypt, John?"Yes, it just about predates everything. Even Stonehenge.
Jim wrote: "Point taken, maybe the mainstream has it right. :)"The Circle Jerkers...good name for a rock band!
Cave Structures Shed New Light on Neanderthals -- http://www.msn.com/en-nz/video/news/c...The recent discovery of broken stalagmites arranged in circles in the Bruniquel Cave (southwestern France) indicate that humans started occupying caves much earlier (more than 100 millennia) than previously thought. These man-made structures also rank among the very first in human history and traces of fire show that Neanderthals knew how to use it to navigate dark and enclosed spaces, well before Homo sapiens. Read also : http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/2763.htm
Has anybody read Cremo's book The Forbidden Archaeologist?Still sitting on my shelf.
the Idaho thing is interesting. Creationist will believe anything so I am not buying the London Hammer. Though I hope some day humans discover time travel I don't think it happens. Good video, thanks.
Graham Hancock writes in his book Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind that "Less than 50,000 years ago humans had no art, no religion, no sophisticated symbolism, no innovative thinking."Anyone else agree with me that that 50,000 year comment is contestable? Who thinks there are potentially far older civilizations with their own science and art? Civilizations that've been lost to us...
P.S. Hancock is a unique author by the way and does some fascinating research, so not dissing him...Just think everything must be questioned.
In this case, I have to agree with Mr. H., there is no "hard evidence" for civilizations existing before 50,000 B, C.. There are myths and legends and some fascinating anomalies out there, but I don't buy the Anunnaki theories nor the great mythos of the Indian culture. Dave "The grumpy skeptic:" Elkin
Wasn't meaning to imply there is any hard evidence.Obviously mainstream academia concurs with Hancock and nothing has thus far discredited that observation about the 50,000 year mark.
All I meant was is it an assumption rather than a fact?
Can we discount there being much older civilizations with potentially equal or superior science and tech to what we have in this era?
Can we "absolutely" discount that-no. The lack of evidence does not disprove anything nor does it confirm. However, one would think we would find something. I would go with alternate reality versuse ancient civilizations millions of years ago.
David wrote: "Can we "absolutely" discount that-no. The lack of evidence does not disprove anything nor does it confirm. However, one would think we would find something. I would go with alternate reality versus..."Fair points.
There is also the possibility that we are looking in the wrong ways...Looking for technology that is vaguely similar to our own or even technology at all...
Perhaps there could have been ancient civilizations that didn't even need tech...That's how advanced they were...
Just putting all possibilities out there!
James "I want to believe" Mulder
From what we know of the fossil record, an advanced society a million or more years ago is implausible.Older than 50,000 years, maybe. Technological artifacts tend not to last. Steel rusts and even plastics break down on a long enough timeline. We haven't even found the saws the Egyptians used to cut granite.
It's probable that what wasn't lost to time was repurposed by later cultures. Egyptian drills and saws became Arab swords.
Jim wrote: "Older than 50,000 years, maybe. Technological artifacts tend not to last. Steel rusts and even plastics break down on a long enough timeline. We haven't even found the saws the Egyptians used to cut granite. It's probable that what wasn't lost to time was repurposed by later cultures. ..."
Took the words right out of my mouth...
What we make of this book, guys?Ancient Egypt 39,000 BCE: The History, Technology, and Philosophy of Civilization X
A view into the sophisticated and highly advanced civilization that preceded the world of the pharaohs
• Presents historical evidence of the civilization ruled by the “gods” that the Egyptians claimed preceded their own
• Explains who these prehistoric people were, what happened to them, and why they built a series of pyramids along the west bank of the Nile River
Traditional Egyptologists have long resisted the notion that the architectural achievements of the Ancient Egyptians required the existence of a much more sophisticated technology than would have existed at that time. Yet, no records exist explaining how, why, or who built Egypt’s megalithic monuments and statues. The ancient Egyptians did, however, record that their civilization resided in the shadow of a kingdom of “gods” whose reign ended many thousands of years before their first dynasty. What was this Civilization X that antiquity’s most accomplished people revered as gods?
The recent discovery of a large stone at one of Egypt’s oldest ruins presents physical evidence that clearly and distinctly shows the markings of a machining process far beyond the capabilities of the Ancient Egyptians. Likewise, experimental modeling of the Great Pyramid’s subterranean chambers and passageways gives scientific evidence to further support the theory that the civilization responsible for such magnificent monuments is much older than presently believed. Ancient Egypt 39,000 BCE examines this evidence from historical and technical points of view, explaining who these prehistoric people were, what happened to them, why they built their civilization out of granite, and why they built a series of pyramids along the west bank of the Nile River.
I have always found this topic fascinating. I have sketched out several ideas for a thriller based on this idea of a technologically advanced civilization that predates our own. Looks like it's worth taking a look at.
The Sphinx is the strongest argumement for a much earlier dating. Hancock's website has a brief bio: https://grahamhancock.com/author/edma...His first book is Sons of Gods; Daughters of Men-looks like it may be hard to find
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...
It might be worth the read
What do you all think of ancient maps they have found, like the Piri Reis Map and others, which appear to show anomalies in our history? Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings: Evidence of Advanced Civilization in the Ice Age
The Piri Reis map was not made by aliens from space as Von Daniken proposed. The technology was Arabic. Recommended reading on this 'They Came Before Columbus-The African Presence in Ancient America' by Ivan Van Sertima. Published 1976.
The Piri Reis map was based on source maps that no longer exist. We can only speculate about how old those source maps may have been and who originally made them. We may be able to make a few good guesses based on what is there but I don't think we'll ever really know.
Jim wrote: "The Piri Reis map was based on source maps that no longer exist. We can only speculate about how old those source maps may have been and who originally made them. We may be able to make a few good guesses based on what is there but I don't think we'll ever really know. ..."Ditto, my thoughts or instincts reflect yours even tho you've probably read much more about this subject than me.
I just agree it's very difficult to make categorical statements about where these artefacts originate from when so many associated materials have been lost along the way.
This short video I've uploaded to the group is a good layman's summary of the ideas about advanced ancient civilizations...Would love to hear your thoughts on it:Is Academia Wrong About the Egyptian Pyramids? (Joe Rogan & Duncan Trussell discuss)
https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1122...
Ignoring the fact that this sounds like two pot smokers who have watched one too many Ancient Alien episodes, and ignoring the weird background music, what are your thoughts about the Graham Hancock-style archaeological concepts about Egypt? What do you think about the idea that there was a super civilization long before the Pharaohs?
p.s. Happy Thanksgiving, my American buddies!
OK-the the two dudes on the video can't speak proper English. Hancock has some interesting ideas but a lot of his speculation is just that-guess work. Here is an example of his latest news bulletin about the Giza gig.
https://grahamhancock.com/peetp1/
Now it is well written but still a stretch. However, I do have great admiration for Mr. Hancock as he is willing to think out of the box which many of the mainstream members of the Egyptian frat club will not. If you have based your entire academic career on one interpretation of history, you get very defensive when challenged.
If not familiar with him, check this site out: My appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience on Tuesday 15 November with Randall Carlson can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H5LC...
Amongst other matters, Randall and I raised issues in this podcast concerning the Younger Dryas comet impacts 12,800 years ago, and the implications for the rediscovery of Earth’s lost civilization of the investigations now underway by the scientists of the Comet Research Group.
I don't always agree with him but his books are often fascinating and always enjoyable
https://grahamhancock.com/books/
I have not received any compensation for this post :-)
BTW, make sure you watch the video above-Very good
James wrote: "This short video I've uploaded to the group is a good layman's summary of the ideas about advanced ancient civilizations...Would love to hear your thoughts on it:Is Academia Wrong About the Egypt..."
I only got four minutes into that video because, yes, it does indeed sound like two pot smokers! Having said that, for anyone new to the alternative history of the Giza pyramids, I'm sure it's probably a goodun.
But, yeah, Hancock and Robert Bauval are the ones to read on this subject.
Harry wrote: "But, yeah, Hancock and Robert Bauval are the ones to read on this subject. ..."Interesting how Bauval is Egyptian-born, Harry.
David wrote: "If you have based your entire academic career on one interpretation of history, you get very defensive when challenged...."Bingo!
I like how Bauval has slowly swayed respected Egyptologists into finally buying into his star correlation theory, but it's taken a while and some academics are still refusing to believe what's staring them in the face!I also like how Bauval's books are full of him giving bribes to guards (to climb the Great Pyramid, get inside chambers etc.) but are only vaguely alluded to, of course. :)
Harry wrote: "I like how Bauval has slowly swayed respected Egyptologists into finally buying into his star correlation theory, but it's taken a while and some academics are still refusing to believe what's staring them in the face!..."Academia is usually a very slow ship to turn around, mate.
Usually takes decades, even once all the evidence is in to prove something.
For example, it was basically known fluoride in the water supply is really bad for you in about the late 1970s and early 1980s...But the scientific establishment refused to accept it saying "we need more testing" year after year.
Now only about 10-20% of the world still has fluoride in their water, and more and more countries and states worldwide are eradicating it each year.
Yep, absolutely.And actually Bauval's theory has made remarkable ground in only twenty years.
What ye make of this book?Decoding the Heavens: A 2,000-Year-Old Computer and the Century-Long Search to Discover Its Secrets
Underground Knowledge — A discussion group
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Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings: Evidence of Advanced Civilization in the Ice Age (other topics)
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Memory Code, The (other topics)
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Robert M. Schoch (other topics)
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https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...
I regard it as speculative but interesting. His follow-up about the technology of Egypt covers some of what was in the video plus a lot more.