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Evidence for scientifically advanced Ancient civilizations?
Plus, I would remind people this topic "Evidence for scientifically advanced Ancient civilizations?" is not reliant on Ancient Aliens existing or visiting Earth - that's kind of a tangent (but could be an interrelated tangent if true).The bottom line is there are some ancient HUMAN civilizations who appeared to be very advanced (more than our historians say they should have been). Whether such human groups developed in this way all by themselves, or whether they were influenced by ETs, is kind of a secondary point in my opinion. I think it first needs to be established if there were ancient humans behaving and inventing more like modern humans...
A buddy I worked with during my contract years is absolutely convinced that humans were a lot smarter and didn't need help from aliens. A different approach. He feels main stream folks just don't give the ancients enough credit. He is a proponent that the major extinctions In North America about 15,000 years ago was caused by a catastrophic event, not the normal theories: http://exhibits.museum.state.il.us/ex...
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene...
I remember it had to do with a small sized asteroid impact.
Most don't agree with him, but I do think that extinction events like that happen. Did one take out a sophisticated human society we know nothing about. The tales of Atlantis make you wonder.
David wrote: "Most don't agree with him, but I do think that extinction events like that happen. Did one take out a sophisticated human society we know nothing about. The tales of Atlantis make you wonder. ..."
Quite possible, David, and I do agree most don't give ancient humans enough credit.
James, you should really read Sitchin, he's a gas. I'm not saying I agree with anything he says but he spins a great yarn.I think I've been pretty clear that I think ancient humans were quite capable of building the stuff they built. They had the same brains we do.
I agree Jim. Modern man likes to think of his brain cells being at the optimum level of "evolution" so we don't like to think it might be us that is out of date. You can see it here on GRs where some highly educated and successful scientists like to laugh at any idea outside their comfort zone. Maybe they fear what could be exposed if the past was put under a microscope and rumour seriously investigated.
Jim, I disagree. True, most of the ancient buildings and structures built by ancient humans were well within their capabilities. But there are exceptions. If you take some of the structures our ancestors have built, its pretty hard to imagine they could have achieved things like that with the picks and levers they used to have. Forget about pyramids, think about the stone blocks in Pumapunku. These people might have had a very advanced technology unknown to us with access to equipment like laser tools, or someone not from this planet definitely must have helped them. Either way, we're missing something huge.
Janith, I absolutely agree that some of those structures required more than simple stone tools. I also think they had techniques that have since been lost. I've seen a few speculations but don't have a favorite.Some of the real giveaways are in Egypt. It's clear they had something that could do the work of a power saw for cutting granite and basalt. To say what would be speculation but there are stones that show cut marks and grooves that would imply a large diameter saw blade.
Or, ancient alien technology. The building abilities are amazing, and if there were ancient aliens, they had to be in Egypt. However, there is no proof for that that is indisputable.
Jim wrote: "James, you should really read Sitchin, he's a gas. I'm not saying I agree with anything he says but he spins a great yarn...."
Okay, mate - will do.
And guys, what are all your thoughts on the pyramids at the ancient city of Teotihaucan in Mexico, by the way? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teotihuacan
I have not been to Egypt, but I have been to Teotihaucan. Pretty amazing structures that blew my mind.
Have since read they have found vast tunnels under the city, just like they have in Egypt.
Nobody knows who built Teotihaucan or who the original inhabitants were as they've since gone (somewhere...).
But I have read that Teotihaucan (which means "birthplace of the Gods") is the only settlement ever found in which there was no class system evident at all i.e. every home in the city was equally built and there appears to have been no elite rulers.
Therefore, something tells me the original creators of the city must have been very advanced peoples.
Teotihuacan: An Experiment in Living
The Maya and Teotihuacan: Reinterpreting Early Classic Interaction
Teotihuacan
Teotihuacan : The City of Gods
The Teotihuacan Trinity: The Sociopolitical Structure of an Ancient Mesoamerican City
Teotihuacan: The History of Ancient Mesoamerica's Largest City
Where Humans Become Divine: A Journey of the Spirit at the Ancient Pyramids of Teotihuacan
Of course, blood sacrifice was there as well. Yuck.
David wrote: "Of course, blood sacrifice was there as well. Yuck."From memory, in what I've read in archaeologist reports about Teotihuacan, the sacrifices were in a later (Aztec) incarnation of the community, not the original one of pre-Aztecs peoples of unknown origin i.e. the builders of the pyramids and city.
I could be wrong about that, but this is my recollection.
The question is who built it. Nobody seems to know. Excellent observation James. http://science.nationalgeographic.com...
Here's an ancient complex or monument (nobody knows what it is for sure or its purpose) which baffled many mainstream archaeologist and engineers for decades. I thought of mentioning about Pumapunku specially because it's a highly underrated site. While the pyramids at Giza are an incredible feat of achieved, compared to Pumapunku, they are just child’s play.These giant stones were cut and shaped in such a way , it’s evident that power tools have been used on this unusual block of stones. Surfaces as smooth as a table tops with no waves. These stones were machined !! . The million dollar question is, what sort of machinery they might have used in 300 AD. Any thoughts guys ?
The more I read the more I realize I know very little. The world is so full of mysteries!
David wrote: "The question is who built it. Nobody seems to know. Excellent observation James. http://science.nationalgeographic.com..."
Yeah, it's a big mystery...Because whoever built Teotihaucan predates the Aztec's arrival in central Mexico by a 1,000 years or so...And then these (original) inhabitants just seemed to vanish from Mexico without a trace...Go figure!
As per the National Geographic article you posted: "It was built by hand more than a thousand years before the swooping arrival of the Nahuatl-speaking Aztec in central Mexico."
I also noted Teotihuacan, which remember was very powerful the New York City of the day with biggest population in the wold of that Ancient era, had no military structures...I told you these people were more advanced than our civilization is now ;)
Another thing from that article is "only five percent has been scientifically excavated". 5%? What the hell are they waiting for?
Another thing I've read is they were doing brain surgery at Teotihuacan at its zenith (which was before the time of Christ).
Anyway, getting back to my own experience at the site, I recall standing on top of the Pyramid of the Moon (the smaller of the two main pyramids) at sunset with about a hundred of so locals...And as the sun went down over distant mountains, every single one of us (even the children) went strangely quiet...Amazing experience!!
Janith wrote: "Here's an ancient complex or monument (nobody knows what it is for sure or its purpose) which baffled many mainstream archaeologist and engineers for decades. I thought of mentioning about Pumapun..."Dayum, Janith, there are some real straight lines on those old stones! I don't know much about such stone carving machinery (even modern ones), but my gut feeling is your question is valid: what sort of machinery would they have used to cut stones so precisely in 300 AD?
James Morcan wrote: "Janith wrote: "Here's an ancient complex or monument (nobody knows what it is for sure or its purpose) which baffled many mainstream archaeologist and engineers for decades. I thought of mentionin..."James, definitely not the tools we knew they had access to at that time. I remember in one documentary I watched some time ago, a team of Engineers trying to imitate these cuts using some hand tools they thought these folks were using at that time. They could barely leave a mark on the stones. Then the senior engineer admitted something like this could be only achieved with much more advanced tools, like the electric tools and machines they're using in construction sites (he was smart enough not to give an opinion on how the hell Tiwanakus achieved this such a long time ago, lol). Look at the first image, on the right hand corner of that stone, there are 2 vertical lines with small holes within. That always reminds me of marks a Sewing machine leaves on a table board. This might have been a very advanced ancient civilization. Whatever they were building there , they couldn't finish it. Like they got hit by a Tsunami or something from nowhere. They vanished into thin air leaving us yet another great mystery.
I see only 2 possibilities.1) Some advanced technology completely lost to us
2) Involvement of otherworldly beings
Both give me creeps.
I've been thinking further on this idea of LOST technologies of the Ancients...And the more I think about it, the more I think it's highly likely at least some technologies would have been lost forever by the fall of certain (isolated) civilizations over the centuries.
Perhaps a good analogy would be this...
Imagine if each country in our modern era had totally closed borders and nobody knew what any other country was doing. Imagine the great scientists/inventors in America right now, in China right now, in Russia, Brazil, Germany, Nigeria, Switzerland, Japan etc, etc.
Now imagine one of those countries, say China, just crumbled and those technologies would be lost forever and none of us in the rest of the world knew what the hell the Chinese had invented.
Admittedly, there was a fair amount of trade and intermingling between various civilizations and empires throughout history and therefore technologies would have been traded in the process. However, the further back in time you go back the less trade would have occurred.
Also, some geographically isolated civilizations (like those who built the Easter Island statues or the unknown group who built the massive pre-Aztec city of Teotihuacan in Mexico before Christ or the Maoris in New Zealand) developed in complete or almost complete isolation. And to my uneducated way of thinking at least, all that would have been needed in any of these isolated empires would have been to have a Tesla or Einstein or some other equivalent scientist or inventor whizz for there to have been amazing inventions that once existed and then were lost for all time.
Or am I missing something here or oversimplifying things a tad?
Read the Postman by David Brin-That is the scenario you are postulating.
David wrote: "Read the Postman by David Brin-That is the scenario you are postulating."Oh okay.
Haven't ever read any of David Brin's works.
The other thing I keep wondering is why so many ancient civilizations that were supposedly completely separate to each other (e.g. Mexico to Egypt) all built pyramid structures?
A real ancient alien argument there. (Or perhaps the teachers from Atlantis?)Brin website: http://www.davidbrin.com/
David wrote: "A real ancient alien argument there. (Or perhaps the teachers from Atlantis?)Brin website: http://www.davidbrin.com/"
Atlantis? Jeez, David, that's pretty wild speculation for a man like you, isn't it?
Actually, I like how you are very open minded yet also refuse to believe anything without an abundance of evidence if not absolute proof.
Only problem is it's damn near impossible to get absolute proof on ancient civilizations, huh?
So all we are left with is theories...and TV shows like The X-Files...
Shame!
However, possibly within the highest realms of the classified/top-secret world, somebody out there may have absolute proof...
I like the sound of this David Brin. The fact that he's a scientist and technology futurist writing novels adds a lot of credibility to his science fiction...A lot of people put down sci-fi books or movies, claiming it's only imaginary stuff, but a lot of it is really science faction I think...Especially the very best stuff.
And most of these ancient pyramids match the alignment of Orions belt, which is rally fascinating. Is it because our creator came from a planet somewhere in the Orion belt and our ancestors knew about it ?. Or is it just a coincidence ? 
Janith wrote: "And most of these ancient pyramids match the alignment of Orions belt, which is rally fascinating. Is it because our creator came from a planet somewhere in the Orion belt and our ancestors knew..."Food for thought those images!
I wouldn't read too much into the prevalence of pyramids. They are really just an idealized hill. It's also easier to build than a skyscraper if you want a large stable structure. I don't think it's too surprising that many cultures came up with the idea.I would also point out that there are notable differences in pyramids. Some have temples on top, some don't. Some have chambers inside, some don't. Some have both of those features.
What is interesting to me is that many cultures had the engineering techniques to build with very large stones. Was that reinvented in several places or was there diffusion of the knowledge?
What amazes me is, why they all chose Orions belt specifically. There are lots of other star patterns out there . What's so special about it ?. As Jim correctly said , there are major differences in these pyramids. That makes this even more interesting coz it suggests that these people might have used these structures for entirely different reasons or purposes. But yet , they all adhered to the Orion correlation . I wonder why...
And just for your information guys, we also have 3 ancient monuments in Sri Lanka , three stupas (Stupas are large Buddhist structures) called Mirisavati, Ruvanweli and Jetavana, at an ancient city called Anuradhapura. They are in perfect alignment with three stars in the constellation of Orion, just like in the images I shared.So this is definitely a global phenomenon. We have a Buddhist culture in Sri Lanka , ancient Egyptians believed in their own gods and so did the Mayans.
You know what's fascinating about our Stupas ? . They are not Pyramids :). You get my point guys ?
Janith wrote: "And just for your information guys, we also have 3 ancient monuments in Sri Lanka , three stupas (Stupas are large Buddhist structures) called Mirisavati, Ruvanweli and Jetavana, at an ancient city..."So what are the odds of all these different monuments built by separate civilizations all aligning with Orion?
James Morcan wrote: "Janith wrote: "And just for your information guys, we also have 3 ancient monuments in Sri Lanka , three stupas (Stupas are large Buddhist structures) called Mirisavati, Ruvanweli and Jetavana, at ..."We can only assume James but we'll never know. The Orion Mystery is one of the greatest mysteries of this planet which has entertained lot of theories. These people had different beliefs , different cultures and they were separated from each other. But they all knew the importance of Orion. They even built their religious monuments in line with these stars. These monuments were not always pyramids so this phenomenon is much broader than what we think.
One such theory is that these monuments were built as a tribute to Anunnaki, to represent their planet or planets as the source of our intelligence. But like I said, its just a theory.
PatEye wrote: "James Morcan wrote: "Janith wrote: "And just for your information guys, we also have 3 ancient monuments in Sri Lanka , three stupas (Stupas are large Buddhist structures) called Mirisavati, Ruvanw..."I believe so too. Patterns, not coincidences
The Dong-Yi Culture was one of the most advanced ancient civilizations during the Neolithic Age.The Dong-Yi People (Dong in Chinese means east) lived in the Shandong Peninsula. There they built one of the most important Neolithic cultures, which later spread to the lower reaches of the Yellow River and Huai River. Thus Dong-Yi Culture greatly influenced ancient China and became the root of ancient Chinese civilization.
The Dong-Yi People also migrated to America and Oceania in the Neolithic Age, where their culture had great influence. The ancient civilizations of Oceanic people, such as palae-Polynesian, palae-Melanesian, and palae-Micronesian cultures; and American Indians, such as the Mayan civilization (about 2000BCE-900CE), the Aztec civilization (about 12th century - 15th century CE), and the Incan civilization (about 13th century - 15th century CE), all evolved from early Dong-Yi Culture.
More details, please read my book "The Queen of the South in Matthew 12:42."
Do you know anything about the Chinese pyramids?
Chinese pyramids are mostly located in Xi'an of China. Someone said that the oldest one had 5000 years history. However, someone said that most pyramids were possiblly Han Emperors' mausoleums. Han Dynasty(202BCE-220CE).Another pyramid is located in ERDOS of China. It is said that the Great Yu (about 4500 years ago) built it for memoring the success of controlling water disaster.
Niuheliang archaeological site (about 5000 years ago)in Liaoning Province is another pyramid.
Soleilmavis wrote: "Chinese pyramids are mostly located in Xi'an of China. Someone said that the oldest one had 5000 years history. However, someone said that most pyramids were possiblly Han Emperors' mausoleums. Han..."Could you please tell us a bit about the pyramid tomb complex of Qin Shihuang. People know very little about this mysterious site. I heard the site near the chamber which contains the emperor's burial remains is still unexcavated due to dangerously high levels of mercury. Do you have an idea what's inside this pyramid ?
Qin Shihuang forced 700,000 unpaid labors to build his tomb within 12 years, and killed all labors after it was finished. Sicentists believe that the Qin Shihuang tomb hides a big pyramid, even bigger than Khufu pyramid. For the reason of protecting it, it will not be allowed to open now.
Soleilmavis wrote: "Qin Shihuang forced 700,000 unpaid labors to build his tomb within 12 years, and killed all labors after it was finished. Sicentists believe that the Qin Shihuang tomb hides a big pyramid, even big..."Hmm.. That's really interesting. Any idea why the site contains a very high level of mercury particularly in the area around the pyramid ?. I've heard some dwellers have suffered from mercury poisoning
According to historical records, When Qin Shihuang built his tomb, star charts were drawn on the ceiling, rivers and seas charts were built on the ground, and infused with mercury.
Soleilmavis wrote: "According to historical records, When Qin Shihuang built his tomb, star charts were drawn on the ceiling, rivers and seas charts were built on the ground, and infused with mercury."Thanks for your insights Soleilmavis. It was very informative. I found couple of images of a possible inside view of the pyramid . Looks so majestic . You see can see the mercury see as well.
Janith wrote: "Soleilmavis wrote: "According to historical records, When Qin Shihuang built his tomb, star charts were drawn on the ceiling, rivers and seas charts were built on the ground, and infused with mercu..."If that's a true depiction of the inside of the pyramid, it looks amazing.
I'm surprised the Olmecs haven't been mentioned yet. One of America's oldest civilsations of which not much is known- dating from at least 900 B.C, and suddenly disappearing in 300 B.C. Covering Mexico's Yucatan Valley, their extent went as far south as El Salvador.Known mostly for the giant head sculptures, the most intriguing thing is this: they look African.
http://precolumbianoceanictravel.weeb...
Older still is the Tiahuanaco civilisation in Bolivia, believed to date from around 1700 B.C..The rise of Lake Titicaca, and then later the Spanish Conquistador destruction, means little of it is left today. But what is left is magnificent. (I'm lucky enough to have visited).
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/Boliv...
Anyone mentioned the Baghdad Battery yet?Dating from about 2000 years ago.
http://www.smith.edu/hsc/museum/ancie...
With Tiahuanaco, there are plenty of mysteries surrounding its construction akin to the Giza pyramids and Stonehenge. -i.e- how did they transport huge rocks, etal.Also of interest is that they had aqueduct systems and this:
The wall there, when looked at from its edge, creates a heatwave-blur effect so that the whole wall shimmers in an otherworldly way.
Also, they had an amplification device: simply a hole in a rock. Put your ear up to it and you can hear beyond range.(Both shown to us by our guide, and not mentioned in most places as far as I can tell).
Underground Knowledge — A discussion group
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See this site: http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/refe...
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You could be right David as I spotted this quote on the site you shared:
"The short answer is that everything Ancient Aliens says about the Annunaki comes from a man named Zecharia Sitchin. Sitchin wrote many books claiming that the Annunaki were really aliens. Unfortunately, at the time that he wrote this in the 70’s, there weren’t many ways for ordinary people to see if what he was saying is true or not.
To put it simply Sitchin’s translation of the word Annunaki is wrong."
I've never actually read much at all on the Annunaki or Zacharia Sitchin or any such books. Have just really taken a cursory glance at those sorts of books or articles.
I guess my interest is more modern day UFO phenomena and reading declassified military documents and the like. Problem with the ancient stuff, as far as I can tell, is it was sooooo long ago that almost any theory can be promoted effectively. These theories re ETs existing centuries ago seem pretty vague from what I've observed.
In saying all that, I don't think just because someone came up with an "Ancient Aliens debunked" website that it's enough evidence in the other direction to totally disprove all ancient alien theories. There are a sh*tload of anomalies in history with ancient technologies and sophisticated maps of the stars and far-away galaxies, that anything's possible really. Also, I'm not convinced all ancient alien theories or Annunaki theories trace back to Sitchin as that debunking website says. Pretty sure I've heard of others, including one author/researcher in Russia, who predate Sitchin and who Sitchin may have been drawing from for his own research.