Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion
FRINGE SCIENCE
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Evidence for scientifically advanced Ancient civilizations?
I think it's very likely that the original head of the Sphinx was that of a dog, as mentioned in that long post of mine. The fact that Robert Temple points out that there are, officially, no mentions at all of the Sphinx in the Pyramid Texts, which is incredible when you think about it, but has found that there are mentions of a colossal Anubis structure, makes sense to me that that is indeed the Sphinx being mentioned.
A lot of people have argued that the sphinx body is canine, not feline. I've looked at all the pictures I can find and I'm not sure. It doesn't help that it's been refurbished a couple of times.You rarely hear about the nearby temples that were made from the excavated sandstone. They also have the same water weathering but at some point were faced with granite blocks.
Jim wrote: "A lot of people have argued that the sphinx body is canine, not feline. I've looked at all the pictures I can find and I'm not sure. It doesn't help that it's been refurbished a couple of times.Y..."
It's the fact that there's no mention of a lion or human headed Sphinx in the Pyramid Texts, but there is reference to a giant Anubis that's selling me on the idea of a canine Sphinx Jim. Yeah, I think the body could be argued either way (feline or canine). In my gut, I feel that it originally was dog-headed, then was turned into a lion's (which means they could have potentially recarved some of the body too) before it being recarved again to the present human-headed Sphinx. - As opposed to Temple's idea that it never was a lion's head and was simply a dog's, followed by a human's.
Good point you make about the similarly weathered nearby temples Jim. :)
Jim wrote: "A lot of people have argued that the sphinx body is canine, not feline. I've looked at all the pictures I can find and I'm not sure. It doesn't help that it's been refurbished a couple of times.Y..."
I just don't understand with all our advances in science, why we can't tell within a few centuries at least, how old it is, mate.
Is it the water erosion that makes it too hard to accurately gauge the age of?
Russian 'genius child' says Egyptian Sphinx holds life changing key to Life beyond Earth http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/8...
James, I think that so far only Schoch has done a detailed study. Egyptologists think they know everything already and don't want anyone throwing monkey wrenches in their nice neat chronology. Then there would have to be funding for more studies and technology brought to bear. I don't foresee a lot of funding because of the aforementioned neat chronology.Sounds like something Joseph Heller would write if he wrote about academics.
New Graham Hancock Archaeological Evidence of Advanced Civilizations [FULL VIDEO] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjlrq...Graham Hancock reviews the evidence and the arguments, the new archaeology and the intriguing genetic clues, to bring us closer to the truth of what really happened during this astonishing lost period in history. Hancock suggests the survivors of earth’s lost civilization, left us unmistakable clues in the form of advanced technology aand ancient ruins.
Graham looks at the clues cattered around the world in ancient myths, maps and monuments and in deliberately buried time-capsules, such as mysterious 12,000-year-old sites like Gunung Padang in Indonesia and Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, these clues appear to have been designed to reawaken humanity at a time when an advanced global civilization had once again emerged. Hancock concludes his lecture with evidence that a planetary awakening is underway, the birth of a new – or perhaps very old and long-lost – form of human consciousness.
James wrote: "8 BIGGEST Mysteries of the Pyramids You've Never Heard Of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9dEE..."Hmm... I guess that video's good for people who don't know anything about this stuff, but there were a few minor wrong facts amongst it, and for me, the vid should have been called: 8 Biggest Mysteries of the Pyramids I HAVE heard of!
This one's new to me: there appears to be a 'blocking stone' (to a secret chamber?) right under the Sphinx's ear:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y68J...
In all the time I've studied the Giza site, I'd never spotted it before.
Mysterious Egyptian Stone-Artifacts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AGsc...Author John Anthony West explores the Cairo Museum and speaks about various Egyptian artifacts which seem to defy the orthodox timeline of history.
What if the Pyramids are actually like icebergs where 90% of the structure lies hidden beneath the surface, like this diagram:https://i.redd.it/qucwdbenlvxx.png
James wrote: "What if the Pyramids are actually like icebergs where 90% of the structure lies hidden beneath the surface, like this diagram:https://i.redd.it/qucwdbenlvxx.png"
It's certainly a theory that's been around for a while and is worth considering - although I hugely doubt that if there is a structure below the earth it would be a larger pyramid. The idea that there are tunnels and secret chambers underneath the Sphinx and pyramids isn't new - some say the Book of Thoth is hidden there.
I'd love to know people's opinions on my last message in this thread regarding what looks like a 'blocking stone' underneath the Sphinx's ear. Even though it could be nothing, it certainly looks undoubtedly like a 'blocking stone' and I find it mad that it hadn't been noticed before an "indigo child" (who remembers past lives and stuff) announced that the world would change once the Sphinx was opened through a mechanism by its ear.
Why don't Egyptologists/archeologists just take a closer look at the stone then? Well, that question can be applied to plenty more areas of Giza, including the unopened secret chambers we know to be there in the Great Pyramid. So much more study and technology could be used on the site and there seems to have been a constant block to any study by authorities over the years. Although technology is finally being used to discover chasms in the area; as was recently in the news: they've found a huge chasm inside the Great Pyramid, even though that in itself isn't too surprising.
Anyway, here's that (very short) vid about the 'blocking stone' by the sphinx's ear once again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y68J...
I'm not convinced by this, but it's certainly possible:Were there two sphinxes on the Giza plateau?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgpY8...
Harry wrote: "I'm not convinced by this, but it's certainly possible:Were there two sphinxes on the Giza plateau?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgpY8..."
Cool, a testable hypothesis. I'm guessing that the "mound" is overburden from centuries of other digs. However, there is a thin chance that some remnant could be buried in the silt of the Nile. I imagine that the goal would be to find a second stella.
J. wrote: "Harry wrote: "I'm not convinced by this, but it's certainly possible:Were there two sphinxes on the Giza plateau?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgpY8..."
Cool, a testable hypothesis. I'm g..."
Yeah, though I'm not convinced that the mound to the side of the Sphinx is another sphinx - it looks too high and large in area to me, but the idea that there was a sphinx on the other side of the Nile built by Khafre (much later than the still-standing Sphinx) seems very plausible.
Imagine if the 2nd sphinx was Donald Trump's head?!Like a prediction for the end of the world :))))
James wrote: "Imagine if the 2nd sphinx was Donald Trump's head?!Like a prediction for the end of the world :))))"
If it existed, it's probably no longer recognizable. The possible game changer would be if it, like its sibling, had a dedication stella. That stella would be largely identical to its sibling, but might include language indicating that the Sphinx we know is older than is currently believed, or that our time line for Egypt's first kingdom is incorrect.
If giants once existed in ancient times, as the Bible says they did, (and they were really massive), it would solve some of the ancient mysteries, such as how the Giza pyramids were built and how and why the Nazca Lines were constructed. If giants constructed them, building the pyramids and moving those huge stones, it would be no different than us making models; same goes for Stonehenge/other standing stones/etc. And drawing miles-long pictures in the Nazca desert would be no different to us drawing pictures on a sheet of A4 paper.
Biblical Translation issue. Most likely they were not real giants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim
Regarding those mysteries, I think we are looking at advanced ancient technologies, rather than giants, in my opinion.Not to say giants didn't once exist, however.
David wrote: "Biblical Translation issue. Most likely they were not real giants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim"
Sure David, I'm aware that the translation of the word "giants" in the Bible may not be correct, but we simply don't know if that's the case or not - seeing as all early translations did translate it as meaning "giants".
It's also not just one word for a race of people, but three: Nephilim, Anakim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anakim) and the Philistines.
I think the only biblical quote which mentions any actual size is this:
"Deuteronomy 3:11 - For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead [was] a bedstead of iron; [is] it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits [was] the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man."
- which means (if a cubit is 52 cm, as is the standard measurement for it, although they differ depending on whether we're talking about Egyptian, Babylonian, Hebrew cubits etc.) Og king of Bashan's bed was over 15 foot in length and over 6 foot wide.
Even if there were "men" of that size, that obviously doesn't give weight to my idea that the constructors of the pyramids and Stonehenge etc. was by incredibly large giants. Although there are a few other ideas and references in pagan belief that suggest there may have once been races of giants on the earth.
James said: Regarding those mysteries, I think we are looking at advanced ancient technologies, rather than giants, in my opinion.
I agree. I don't actually think it's very likely giants did build structures like the pyramids, but it's still a possibility, and I highlighted the idea more to show how things which we think are impossible could actually be very easy once we think outside the box. Anti-gravity technology being used to move massive stones being one such other idea.
Turkish Professor Claims Koran Flood Story Tells of Muslim Noah Calling Son on Cell-Phonehttps://www.breakingisraelnews.com/10...
Jim wrote: "Turkish Professor Claims Koran Flood Story Tells of Muslim Noah Calling Son on Cell-Phonehttps://www.breakingisraelnews.com/10......"
Jim, that's one of the best headlines I've ever read; even more so when the article turns out to be serious!
Very interesting that it's actually become a serious debate issue in Turkey.
I also liked: "(Ornek said they) used advanced technology to build an ark out of steel that was powered by nuclear energy. Ornek also claimed that instead of bringing live animals onto the ark, Noah stocked it with one male and one female egg from every living species."
I hope Noah had a good phone plan and didn't get ripped off.
James wrote: "I hope Noah had a good phone plan and didn't get ripped off."They were more advanced back then. They probably had something like Project Fi. ;)
Mysterious Megaliths of Japan: The Stone Ship of Masuda https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE3up...These megaliths date back to around 200AD
The Unknown Megaliths - Castle Montfort, Libyan Stonehenge, the Baalbek Crack, the Temple Mount https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KNba...
Did cataclysm wipe out an advanced ancient civilisation 12 000 years ago? Tropical "ice" age https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdI3l...
Multiplications of 8 cycles gives one the significant 432 (54 x 8, and 3 x 72).The number 432 is considered sacred in a majority of the major temple complexes of this planet. For instance, one side of the Great Pyramid, Egypt, at its sea level foundation, is 432 Earth Units (51.49 cm).
The major Toltec complex of Teotihuacan in Mexico, has its great Pyramid of the Sun with an overall base of 864 STU (Standard Teotihuacan Units) which is twice 432. STU was the Toltecs measure unit for this site, as their "myths" relay it was taught them by the Shaman Wizard gods from the stars. Each side of this Sun Pyramid is 216 STU, precisely half of 432, and 3 x 72.
Before the Pyramids: Cracking Archaeology's Greatest Mystery by Christopher Knight...The suggestion that the Giza pyramids were laid out to represent the stars of Orion’s belt, with the position of the River Nile reflecting the Milky Way, was first put forward by the renowned author Robert Bauval in his bestselling book The Orion Mystery. In Before the Pyramids, Knight and Butler reveal that the British henges were arranged in the same formation—but much earlier. They also present irrefutable evidence that the astronomical calculations determining the layout of the pyramids could only have been made from the site of the henges in North Yorkshire. From this they can conclude that the pyramids of the pharaohs were conceived and planned in Britain! Their next stunning discovery takes us to modern times. They have found evidence that the whole Megalithic measuring system has survived into the 20th century. There are examples in Washington, DC—even in the positioning and construction of the Pentagon, which was only commenced in 1942 and is an exact copy of the dimensions of Stonehenge, dating to 3,000 BC.
If you have a small array of objects, you can always find a similar one somewhere else that more or less corresponds in some way. Drop some coins on the floor and the pattern will correspond to something, somewhere.
This is a great debate on Ancient Civilizations. Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson exchange views with skeptic Michael Shermer.The Joe Rogan Experience #961 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gIHU...
'forbidden archaeologist' Michael Cremo on COAST TO COAST:COAST TO COAST AM. On the cutting edge of science and culture issues, dissident intellectual, Michael Cremo, discussed his continuing work in forbidden archaeology and human origins including artifacts and discoveries that don't fit into conventional timelines and theories of the academic and scientific communities. He also reacted to the recent news that Neanderthals built mysterious underground circles around 175,000 years ago inside a cave in France. They arranged pieces of stalagmites in rings, as well as in separate piles that they used to light fires upon. This showed a high level of intelligence, he noted, as the beings had to collaborate to pull off the accomplishment, given that the stalagmites were quite heavy.
Forbidden Archaeology 175,000 year old Mysterious Underground Circles Discovered https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL...
On my latest blog article (found on GR) I have reported a paper (referenced) where there is clear evidence of Homo erectus self-adorning and probably trading 300,000 yrs ago. Also there was evidence for attempted technological development e.g. drilling holes in stone objects and the development of better stone hafted spears.
Pyramids True Purpose FINALLY DISCOVERED: Advanced Ancient Technology https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko-Zb...Mainstream historians will tell you that the Great Pyramid of Giza was a glorified tomb for the Egyptian pharaohs. The only original monument left of the original Seven Wonders of the World, this structure was created with impeccable mathematical precision, and is a unique, mysterious feat of construction and engineering.
There’s only one problem: the Great Pyramid has none of the characteristics of tombs: including extravagant artifacts, ornate wall art, sealed entrances, elaborate coffins, or even mummies themselves. It was, however, built with unique – the same materials that are used for electrical conductivity today. These facts are leading more and more historians to believe the pyramids may have had a far more useful purpose. ..that pyramid of Giza was not at all a tomb, but a power plant: generating and transmitting electricity to the civilization surrounding them. Sound impossible?
Join the Universe Inside you for a closer look!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko-Zb...
James, I have personally been inside one of those pyramids, where you get shown a massive lump of rock that is described as a coffin. It most certainly looks consistent with a coffin, and if it isn't, why was such a massive lump of hollowed out rock put there. The lack of artifacts is because they were stolen. That someone stole lump of gold is not that surprising.
Ian wrote: "James, I have personally been inside one of those pyramids, where you get shown a massive lump of rock that is described as a coffin. It most certainly looks consistent with a coffin, and if it isn..."The pyramids are pre-Pharaonic in my assessment. So even if they one day find a Pharaoh, or even the remains of one like a fingertip even, (they haven't ever yet, correct me if I'm wrong), buried inside any of the approx. 120 Egyptian pyramids found to date, that doesn't mean it relates to the original builders at all.
Like you, I have been to the pyramids - the ones in Latin America (which I sense are related to the Egyptian ones). And similarly, the history books then were all saying these pyramids in Mexico (Teotihuacan) were built by slave-trading, human sacrifice dimwits...who apparently had mathematics and science our current scholars don't have a flying clue about... :)
It turns out many or most scholars now say the Aztecs/Toltecs/Mayans simply discovered and inherited the pyramids over a thousand years later. Nobody knows who built Teotihaucan. And it's like that all over Latin America. Well, surprise surprise...
I believe we got a similar situ in Egypt, mate.
It may prove in time very similar to how scholars/academia/archaeologists said for centuries (and taught tens of millions of students worldwide!) that Stonehenge was definitely built by the Druids. Turns out, it pre-dates the Druids by many thousands of years (way back in the Neolithic era) and once again we don't have a clue how the hell these ancients created it or even who they were.
Sadly, the history of scientific academia proves that sometimes or even often it's a case of: Scientific FACT (until next revision)
This is not a bad intro article on this counter-theory re the pyramids:
If Pyramids are Tombs, then Where are the Pharaohs? http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read....
"Egyptology holds that pyramids were built as tombs for the pharoahs, yet no royal burial has ever been found in one. This is not to mean just the "body" of the pharaohs are missing, but all the material funerary goods and even the artistic and written testament right off the walls as well. Though I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why the walls would be completely bare, a-typical of all the tombs surrounding the pyramids and abhorrent to their religion regardless, as far as the pharaoh's remains and funerary goods it is said these were all stolen by tomb robbers often shortly after the body was interred and the tomb closed, mere years in some cases. Yet this too makes little sense as what these means is that each pharaoh was just as dumb as the last, even robbing their predecessors themselves, only to repeat the same mistake pyramid after pyramid knowing full well their tomb would also be robbed just like every single pyramid building pharaoh before them. No, this seems quite unlikely. About as unlikely as every pyrmaid being picked clean by tomb robbers leaving no trace of royal burial even in those whose sealed sarcophagi were opened first in modern times only to be found completely empty."
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read....
I've seen the pyramids as power plant hypothesis before. It has two obvious problems:1.) Where are all the support facilities and utilization points? Stylized reliefs of the Ancient Egyptian creation myth that look like light bulbs, on the walls of a temple where cleaning ancient SOOT off of the ceiling recently exposed previously unknown artwork?
2.) Why do the proponents of this hypothesis never explain why the pyramids of Khefre and Menkaure have different internal layouts than the Great Pyramid? The cartoons are careful to show how the King's and Queen's chambers create, amplify, and project this energy, but those chambers do not have analogs in the other pyramids at Giza.
Maybe writing on the walls was an aberration for later. At first they didn't, because who was going to read it? If you think of it as a power source, how did it work? (I am one of those people who accept that, from time symmetry, energy must be conserved. How would a pyramid violate time symmetry?) You have large stone object that looks like a coffin, a lid that had been moved, and no evidence this lump of rocks did anything else. From Occam's razor, why is the simplest explanation discarded?
Yup, Occam's razor useful often. Not so much where there is very limited info to go on, however...And of course Occam's razor can be used as a way to shut down political activists or else as an attempt to shut down awkward/embarrassing topics for the most rigid sectors of the scientific establishment...Topics like the Egypt pyramids for example...For remember, it was Occam's razor until not long ago that slaves build the pyramids (due to ancient Egyptian artwork of slaves and other evidence or supposed proof)...
And now...
Great Pyramid tombs unearth 'proof' workers were not slaves https://www.theguardian.com/world/201...
Egypt's leading archaeologist says 4,000-year-old burial plots with skeletons expose myth that builders were slaves
Egypt: New Find Shows Slaves Didn't Build Pyramids https://www.usnews.com/science/articl...
It was Occam's Razor that said for centuries that the Druids definitely built Stonehenge until not long ago. And with the Druids, like the Aztecs/Mayans/Toltecs in Mexico who didn't build their pyramids but merely found them, many say the Druids altered some things around Stonehenge at least (i.e. they altered what they discovered but didn't build). As mentioned the Druids building stonehenge was taught as an archaeology FACT to many millions of students in universities worldwide since the 19th Century until recently (what could be more pseudoscientific than to present a theory as if a proven fact?).
So the Druidic/Celtic peoples in Britain and the Aztecs/Mayans/Toltecs of Latin America both building upon or adding to these incredible ancient structures they found centuries after construction relates to what I posted earlier: We don't even know if the Phaoroahs built the pyramids themselves or simply found the remains of some more ancient PRE-pharaonic civilization and then added things to what they found like even tombs maybe (IF the current majority are right about tombs, I personally side with Graham Hancock and John Anthony West and other renegade investigators/academics and believe there's too much evidence against tombs as besides the shape of a coffin nothing else has indicated burial in any of the 120 Egyptian pyramids found to date, but I'm open minded on the tomb theory).
Check out article link further below from Boston University geologist Dr. Robert M. Schoch where he dates the Sphinx (due to erosion studies) to be something constructed before the pharaohs as but one example of how a serious debate is finally beginning to happen without mainstream academia over whether these structures are pre-pharaonic and came by some unknown people before the pharaohs...just like the "unknowns" before the Druids and the "unkkowns" before the Ameriandian peoples of Latin America who built their amazing scientific achievements...
But even if my uneducated guess (and the renegade scholars I'm referencing) is totally wrong and the pyramids are not much older than the pharaonic era, and even if there were real tombs for pharaohs, that of course does not mean they were solely built as tombs. Nor does it mean they were even primarily built as tombs - the tombs could have just been an additional "bonus extras" created either by the pre-pharaonic or pharaonic builders or else the pharaonic "discoverers"...So if tomorrow the tomb theory is proven as fact, that doesn't debunk other theories about the pyramids being power generators...Nor would it debunk the various other exotic theories about what their advanced astronomical/mathematical/scientific/engineering feats (we are still attempting to figure out) were actually for. Nor does it make the Egyptians incredible and precise engineering feats go away...
I sense the first step with Ancient Egypt, if we are serious truthseekers, is to admit our present society and academia and archaeologists in the field still know next to nothing about these awesome structures. However embarrassing it is to present scholars, we must be honest and admit that after centuries of scholarly investigation these structures still remain a complete mystery to us. Furthermore, we must in my opinion also acknowledge the pyramids continue to throw up new scientific surprises every year, like the following discoveries reported in scientific journals and the news media...
NY POST: Something is heating up inside Egypt’s ancient pyramids https://nypost.com/2015/11/10/somethi...
NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC: Mysterious Void Discovered in Egypt's Great Pyramid https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2...
The cavity is the first major inner structure discovered in the pyramid since the 1800s.
NEW HISTORIAN: An Iron Throne in the Great Pyramid? – The History News of the Week https://www.newhistorian.com/iron-thr...
10 Facts About The Pyramids That Could Prove Advanced Ancient Technology http://listverse.com/2017/06/02/the-p...
REVEALED: The mystery of the 'SECOND sphinx' uncovered https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...
A SECOND sphinx from the time of the ancient Egypt could exist, historians have claimed in an explosive new book which could rewrite history.
Unsolved mystery of pyramid’s secret room https://www.qt.com.au/news/these-are-...
The Riddle of the Sphinx and Its Controversial Answer https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-rid...
"Some say the Great Sphinx of Egypt is thousands of years older than it is commonly held to be, a point of controversy that has rippled through the archaeological community for decades. In the early 1990s, Boston University geologist Dr. Robert M. Schoch was the first to rock the boat, starting those ripples, when he announced that the Sphinx might date back to 5000 or 7000 B.C., predating dynastic Egyptian culture. "
So beyond guesses masquerading as sophisticated theories and besides all the academic point-scoring that have gone on for centuries, what do we as a civilization actually know for sure about Ancient Egypt and their structures? Will we ever figure it out? If so, how many more centuries will it take? And the longer we try to figure out this mystery, will we eventually become more scientific (which as you know by its nature science must be completely devoid of bias and dogma) and become open to ALL possibilities about the ancients - including that they may have had advanced ancient technologies to build such mysterious feats of engineering that baffle our archaeologists, scientists, engineers and mathematicians to this very day?
None of that is necessarily to say the pyramids were built by anything more than comparatively primitive idiots with only uneducated slaves (and no advanced science or tech) that mainstream academia still by and large says they were. Again, to be scientific/unbiased about it (and thereby avoid the chance of falling for pseudoscience) we must also be open to the idea that these ancients got lucky or just somehow created cool stuff accidentally out of boredom that remains mysterious but is actually nothing remotely special...
James, Occam's razor says with a choice of explanations, the simplest is often the truth. However, it does not say the pyramids were built by slaves. It merely says they were built by Egyptians. It can't tell the difference between slaves, volunteers, or the army. The fact that things taught in Universities, like our druid example, were wrong, does not fault the razor, but it does fault University teaching, which I would not be surprised to find is often wrong (except in maths - that should be right.)I have no problem at all with the Sphinx being much older, as there are erosion marks around the feet, etc. From Occam's razor, that requires it to have been made in a wetter climate.
Would certainly agree we don't know everything about the pyramids, and probably never will, but as for the date, they are tied to specific pharaohs, and in at least one there are astronomical pointers to specific stars. Those stars have moved due to motion through the galaxy, but they were there at that specific time. As a clock, that is course, but they are not several thousand years older, unless we are totally misrepresenting those astronomical indicators.
We also have a fair idea how the Egyptians did some of the engineering, though, because I gather there is a hieroglyphic tablet that gives at least part instructions. (The implication is there are more tablets that we haven't found yet.)
All good, Ian.And like I say I'm open to the idea that the Ancients were nothing special scientifically - you'll note this entire discussion thread has a question mark after it, so it's merely questioning all the anomalies to find out the truth. So although as a layman who has visited a few of these sites I personally lean toward a highly sophisticated ancient civilization that we are still catching up to scientifically, I wouldn't bet my life on it.
I was applying Occam's razor more from a philosophical perspective rather than a scientific one (William of Ockham was a philosopher not a scientist, as you know). It can therefore be applied, or at least people attempt to apply it, to almost any subject (including historical ones, rather than just scientific). Therefore, it can in my opinion be applied to competing ideas such as "the pyramids were built by slaves vs the pyramids were not built by slaves" and I've seen people raise the old razor in that way...and in that instance the application of Occam's razor would have said (until recently when more info was gathered) being built by slaves was the answer most likely to be true - as it makes the fewest assumptions. And my point was for subjects like Ancient Egypt, we have such little info to go on that I don't think Occam's razor should ever be applied.
Granted however that Occam's razor is most commonly used in science these days and so under that scientific model you probably have a good point that the razor can't comment about things like how the pyramids were built.
Anyway, now that we have gotten that all out of the way, I have another idea I'd like to propose to you...And would love to get your feedback, given you're a scientist and a sci-fi author...
I've been thinking about how we as a civilization tend to focus on hardware and evidence of physical technologies. If we don't see that kind of machinery we make the assumption that these ancient peoples were obviously incapable of great scientific feats we do today and were of course lesser scientifically.
But is that assumption correct?
Could there be other types of "technology". For example, we as a civilization seem to be moving toward a less hardware based society, right? I mean, if our civilization died out tomorrow from some Armageddon style scenario, would another species be able to see all or even most of the evidence of invisible things like the internet, WiFi, Bluetooth, digital and virtual domains etc? Even if the answer to that question is yes, well what about say in the year 2050 or 2100? Will we be developing more and more stuff in these non-physical domains (for want of a better phrase)? Eventually will we not need much if any physical technology?
And on a related note, who is to say technology is even needed in every civilization? For example, what if the Ancients were using things like the Aborginal songlines/leylines, levitation and other exotic "technologies" of the mind or tapping into organic energies within nature?
Are we lacking imagination to think that the way we have evolved scientifically is the only way?
James, as far as thinking goes, the ancient Greeks were thinking quite deeply and technology goes all the way back to Sumer, with the irrigation ponds etc. The ancients did not develop scientifically for a variety of reasons, but in fact most of those reasons were that they did not see the need. (My opinion, anyway.) They had a way of life, and by and large they were happy with it when they weren't at war, which tended to be too often. If you think about it, taming animals was a huge technical advance, and we were horse dependent for transport up until rather recently. My father rode a horse to get to school.Unfortunately, right now civilisation has got very heavily dependent on technology, and rather serious efforts are going to be needed just to get around the mistakes we have made using it in the last few decades. When Florida drowns, even Trump will realise something serious is going on.
Ian wrote: "When Florida drowns, even Trump will realise something serious is going on. ..."I fear he may not even see a problem then, Ian!
Underground Knowledge — A discussion group
Books mentioned in this topic
The Sentinel Project (other topics)The Modern Antiquarian: A Pre-Millennial Odyssey Through Megalithic Britain (other topics)
Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings: Evidence of Advanced Civilization in the Ice Age (other topics)
Civilization One: The World is Not as You Thought it Was: Uncovering the Super-science of Prehistory (other topics)
Memory Code, The (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Julian Cope (other topics)Christopher Knight (other topics)
Andrew Collins (other topics)
Brien Foerster (other topics)
Robert M. Schoch (other topics)
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I think Egyptologits stick their fingers in their ears and yell out, 'Nyahh, nyhuhh, nyahhh, I'm not listening!'