#369 - Jeffety Jeff Jeffers of Planet Jeff

[Veronica, Supreme Sword]

How we’re feeling about the Snow Queen, and where it’s world-building might have drawn from. Plus two alternative pronunciation guides for the character names. Plus, a treasure trove of awesome articles about SciFi-type things!

http://swordandlaser.com/home/2019/11...
https://soundcloud.com/swordandlaser/...
https://www.patreon.com/posts/31745279

[Iain]

Regarding the rating up of the character in The Snow Queen

(view spoiler)[
This is directly related to the plot. Almost simultaneously Moon is bing trained (spoken to) by a Sibyl in Kharemough... That training raises her up to his level of understanding and empowers her to take charge. The two moments are exactly analogous. (hide spoiler)]

[John]

Off-topic for the book, but on the topic of acidic and alkaline water, there is little to no supporting evidence to the related health claims, with the exception of acid reflux.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/alka...

[John (Taloni)]

Fantasy...classic...short. Is there such a thing? Since Tolkien bust Fantasy wide open with LOTR, extensive tomes have been the rule. I suppose we *could* go CS Lewis with Narnia or Dickens with A Christmas Carol, arguably Fantasy. Brackett and Norton are good, but we've done both and they're more SF than F. I'm not coming up with much. Kinda curious what Veronica will come up with.

[Mark]

John (Taloni) wrote: "Fantasy...classic...short. Is there such a thing?"

some suggestions

Nine Princes in Amber by Roger Zelazny
Briar Rose by Jane Yolen
Elric of Melniboné by Michael Moorcock
Black Gods Kiss by C.L. Moore

[Eric]

Fantasy...classic...short...holiday season. How about a real classic. How about Dickens' "A Christmas Carol?"

[Mark]

Popular 1900s, 10s and 20s Fantasy Novels

https://thoughtsonfantasy.com/2018/10...

[Mark]

Going back many more years, Eric's suggestion of A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens, published in 1847, is appealing.

Phantastes by George MacDonald was published in 1858. Wikipedia claims it's widely considered to be the first fantasy novel ever written for adults.

We're all adults here aren't we?

[Mark]

A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs

[Mark]

Or just say to hell with the old stuff, and pick a Tor.com novella that was published this month, Made Things by Adrian Tchaikovsky

Ok I'll stop now.

[John (Taloni)]

^Those are some good suggestions. Just for fun I'll also offer Pippi Longstocking, not so much fantasy as fantastic, and loads of fun to tween me. Also Alice in Wonderland / Through the Looking Glass.

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

Mark wrote: "Wikipedia claims it's widely considered to be the first fantasy novel ever written for adults."

It would be almost impossible to pinpoint the first fantasy book ever written. "The Odyssey" & "The Illiad" are both fantasy and predate that book by 2,500+ years.

Even they wouldn't be the oldest ones written.

[John (Taloni)]

I AM NOT READING BEOWULF THIS DECEMBER!

[John (Taloni)]

Mark wrote: "Going back many more years, Eric's suggestion of A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens, published in 1847, is appealing."

Yes, good suggestion, Eric and Mark!

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

John (Taloni) wrote: "Mark wrote: "Going back many more years, Eric's suggestion of A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens, published in 1847, is appealing."

Yes, good suggestion, Eric and Mark!"

Bah, Humbug

[Elizabeth]

Eric wrote: "Fantasy...classic...short...holiday season. How about a real classic. How about Dickens' "A Christmas Carol?""

My first thought as well!

[Iain]

Elizabeth wrote: "Eric wrote: "Fantasy...classic...short...holiday season. How about a real classic. How about Dickens' "A Christmas Carol?""

My first thought as well!"

Urrrggghhh! Flashback to high school English classes... Dickens... Urrrggghhh!

[TRP]

2000 World Fantasy Award winning novel Thraxas

Short novel. First in a series. Orcs. Magic. Badass Ex-Gladiator Barmaid. Overweight Beer-swilling Private Eye.

Lots of fun

[Seth]

I'm in about the same position as Veronica on The Snow Queen. I'm enjoying the book, but it doesn't keep me up at night or make me want to skip other activities to get to the book. Not necessarily a knock on the book - not everything has to be an edge of your seat thriller after all.

[William]

I think about The Dark Is Rising every Christmas


It's from 1973, so old-ish.

(please forget that the movie ever happened - it has very little to do with the book).

[John (Taloni)]

Did the group do Hogfather yet? That book is great. Pratchett, Discworld, Death standing in for the "Hoggfather" (but really Santa.) And topical for the season. You could even do a watchalong with the excellent BBC production too.

[TRP]

John (Taloni) wrote: "Did the group do Hogfather yet? That book is great. Pratchett, Discworld, Death standing in for the "Hoggfather" (but really Santa.) And topical for the season. You could even do a wat..."

The only Discworld that group has done is Wyrd Sisters (a Witches story).
Hogfather is a DEATH story and nicely Christmassy.
The TV production (Sky not BBC) is good and has Downton Abbey's Lady Mary Crawley (the wonderful Michelle Dockery) as Susan Sto-Helit, DEATH's grand-daughter and occasional deputy

[Mark]

Tassie Dave wrote: "It would be almost impossible to pinpoint the first fantasy book ever written."

But Wikipedia sez so! (After asking for a donation)

And I found a copy of Phantastes on my bookshelf. I have about 15 Ballantine Adult Fantasy paperbacks there. I don't remember reading this book, so all Veronica has to do is pick it!

[Mark]

A Christmas Carol in Prose; Being a Ghost Story of Christmas by Charles Dickens

Available for free from Project Gutenberg

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/46

and so is

Phantastes: A Faerie Romance for Men and Women by George MacDonald

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/325

[Mark]

John (Taloni) wrote: "I AM NOT READING BEOWULF THIS DECEMBER!"

The Story of Beowulf, Translated from Anglo-Saxon into Modern English Prose

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/50742

[Mark]

Whoa. The Black God's Kiss is the weirdest story ever told. It says so right there on the cover.

[Mark]

And this is C.L Moore, author of The Black God's Kiss, who was born in 1911. The Black God's Kiss was published in Weird Tales, Oct 1934

>

[Mark]

The Black God's Kiss in Weird Tales Oct 1934 is available from archive.org (the same place where S&L podcasts are archived). The damaged pages in the download don't affect this story.

https://archive.org/details/WeirdTale...

[Mark]

One more Gutenberg Project book

A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/62

[William]

John (Taloni) wrote: "Did the group do Hogfather yet? That book is great. ..."

Yes, that book is so good.

[Phil]

There's been some good suggestions like A Christmas Carol, Elric of Melniboné,and Nine Princes in Amber.
How about Swords and Deviltry, On a Pale Horse, A Spell for Chameleon, Pawn of Prophecy, Lord Foul's Bane, The Crystal Shard or Silverlock.
For something a little newer how about The Eyre Affair, A Dirty Job or The Stupidest Angel: A Heartwarming Tale of Christmas Terror.

[Mark]

Speaking of Michael Moorcock's Elric...

Ok, we weren't speaking about it, but I put it on a list early in this thread

Michael Moorcock’s Elric Saga Optioned for TV

https://www.tor.com/2019/11/20/michae...

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

A few here will be happy :-)

[Mark]

This is the way.

[terpkristin]

John wrote: "Off-topic for the book, but on the topic of acidic and alkaline water, there is little to no supporting evidence to the related health claims, with the exception of acid reflux.
https://sciencebase..."

This. But if you like skepticism and medicine, you might be into the Sawbones podcast, a McElroy family show. This is the episode on alkaline water. http://sawbones.libsyn.com/sawbones-a...

Also I’m 100% with Veronica on reading lately. I come home from work near zombie. It’s making reading, even things I’m interested in, difficult.

[Stephen]

Just want to put out that the New Zealand WorldCon price point of $75 was supporting not attending membership. The Attending tag is $ 272.64 . I am going, as New Zealand has been on my " I want to go there " list for a super long time.

[Tom, Supreme Laser]

I feel it's incumbent upon me to clarify. My doctor did not suggest I go on an alkaline diet. She noted a test result showing a alkaline levesls out of the norm. She mildly suggested I might squeeze some lemon in my water as a preventative measure. Her conern is based on peer-reviewed journal articles about possible risks like this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti... or this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2.... She is a reliable medical professional who knows her business much betetr than I or I'm going to presume, most of the non-medical professional in our audience. The nuance that seems to have been lost in our conversation was about me taking a doctor's advice and putting a lemon in my water. I neither suggested nor encouraged anyone to go on a fad diet involving alkalinity. Hope that helps clear up some of the confusion.

[AndrewP]

Not sure how putting lemon in your water would be classified as an alkaline diet, just the opposite in fact.

[Trike]

AndrewP wrote: "Not sure how putting lemon in your water would be classified as an alkaline diet, just the opposite in fact."

Easier on the teeth than batteries, I guess.

[AndrewP]

Trike wrote: "AndrewP wrote: "Not sure how putting lemon in your water would be classified as an alkaline diet, just the opposite in fact."

Easier on the teeth than batteries, I guess."

But batteries will get you more Energized:)