2020 TOB Shortlist

[Mindy]

My favorite unlikable characters/great book combo is The Bonfire of the Vanities. Every single character is reprehensible but the book is sharp and appealing.

[Tristan]

I did it. I gave up on ever getting a copy of Trust Exercise from my library and used some Google Play credit to buy the ebook. I didn't expect to like Trist Exercise, I tried to read it for the Camp TOB and didn't like it then. 6 months later I still didn't like it. The Karen section was awful. The Sarah and Claire sections weren't great, but were less awful. Unclear to me how this beat The Need or The Other Americans for the national book award.

I agree with the consensus that Overthrow was awful. I bought that on impulse while on vacation when the Indie bookstore I was visiting had a copy. At least I helped a bookstore.

Normal People was not as all what I was expecting and worked really well for me. I loved the development of the characters from thinking high school matters to college where no one gives a shit about what happened in high school. I love characters realizing that the world is much bigger than what they thought.

Your House was this years House of Broken Angels for me. I wasn't sure what to expect, and ended up loving it, despite forgetting who was who occasionally.

Mary Toft was so much better than the blurb led me to believe it would be. Weird, but fun to see how collective delusions can come about.

Oval, On Earth, and Optic Nerve all fall into the " I don't get the appeal" category. Oval went nowhere. On Earth went nowhere with more flowery language. Optic Nerve went nowhere and talked a lot about art.

We Cast a Shadow was the biggest disappointment for me. Expected a novel that would challenge my beliefs and highlight the evils of institutional racism. Instead I got a novel about the dumbest lawyer on earth. A friend told me she fell asleep while reading it. I see how that happened.

For fun I ranked them all.

1. Normal People
2. Your House Will Pay
3. Girl, Woman, Other
4. All This Court Be Yours
5. Fleishman Is In Trouble
6. Golden State
7. Nothing to See Here
8. Mary Toft: or, the Rabbit Queen
9. The Testaments
10. Lost Children Archive
11. Saudade
12. The Water Dancer
13. Oval
14. On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous
15. Optic Nerve
16. Trust Exercise
17. We Cast a Shadow
18. Overthrow

[Jenny (Reading Envy)]

I still think Lost Children Archive is my top book from the shortlist, but Optic Nerve has become my dark horse. I still need to read a handful that I haven't gotten to yet but feel like I've probably read the heavy hitters.

[Alison]

C wrote: "I love unlikable characters...."

I do, too. They are often just more interesting than the likable characters and it's so interesting to me to find out why they are the way they are.

And since we usually disagree on specific books (although you did make me wish I'd been able to tolerate Zebra) I find it fascinating that we are drawn to the same qualities in characters. I do, on the other hand, very much like novels about relationships, given that pretty much all novels are about relationships of one kind or another.

[Jason]

Anyone know when the tourney begins? It's March, ain't it?

[Sherri]

Jason wrote: "Anyone know when the tourney begins? It's March, ain't it?"

At the top of the bracket sheet it says March 6th. I don't know if that's the play-in round or if the play-in will happen earlier.

[Janet]

Add me to the ranks of the completists....I finished Saudade today.

Here are my personal rankings

1) Mary Toft
2) The Testaments
3) The Water Dancer
4) Trust Exercise
5) Your House Will Pay
6) Golden State
7) We Cast a Shadow
8) Normal People
9) Nothing to See Here
10) Fleishman is in Trouble
11) Lost Children Archive
12) Girl Woman Other
13) On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous
14) Overthrow
15) All This Could Be Yours
16) Oval
17) Saudade
18) Optic Nerve

[Aaron]

Love the rankings, y’all! Will I count as a completist if I finish after the beginning of the tourney?? There’s no way I can get through The Testaments, Oval, Normal People, Saudade AND GWO before Friday, but I will soon!

[Lauren]

I haven't seen any official bracket competitions yet... Does anyone else want to "bet" on the competition (with the prize being the winner's choice of a book from the longlist)?

I wasn't sure how to share or create a digital version of my bracket since I don't have fancy editing software, so I just drew in abbreviations and pasted it into a Google Doc. I have Girl, Woman, Other beating Mary Toft (after it comes back as a zombie) in the final round. Anyone with different picks want to place a book bet on this? :)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16...

[Lauren]

Aaron wrote: "Love the rankings, y’all! Will I count as a completist if I finish after the beginning of the tourney?? There’s no way I can get through The Testaments, Oval, Normal People, Saudade AND GWO before ..."

Yes, I think finishing during the tournament counts. Good luck and happy reading!

[Heidi]

Lauren—I have a very different bracket, except I end with GWO as the winner. Happy to “book bet” on who has a higher % of “correct” mid-game winners!

[Lauren]

Heidi wrote: "Lauren—I have a very different bracket, except I end with GWO as the winner. Happy to “book bet” on who has a higher % of “correct” mid-game winners!"

That could work! We can wait to see if there are more challengers with different winners in the next few days though. If not, we'll try it. :)

[Amy]

Ok - I backslid on my bracket formula provision - I’ll finalize and send out tonight (the auto-calculations are almost done!) it’ll give a few extra points for upsets and picking the right zombies.

[Elizabeth]

Amy wrote: "Ok - I backslid on my bracket formula provision - I’ll finalize and send out tonight (the auto-calculations are almost done!) it’ll give a few extra points for upsets and picking the right zombies."

Oh fun! Thanks Amy, I'll join. I think I missed out in previous years.

My rankings:

1) Girl, Woman, Other
2) Lost Children Archive
3) Mary Toft
4) Your House Will Pay
5) On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous
6) Optic Nerve
7) Golden State
8) Nothing to See Here
9) Fleishman is in Trouble
10) All This Could Be Yours
11) The Testaments
12) Saudade
13) We Cast a Shadow
14) Trust Exercise
15) Normal People
16) The Water Dancer
17) Oval (DNF)
18) Overthrow (DNF)

I'm excited for Friday!

[C]

Alison wrote: "C wrote: "I love unlikable characters...."

I do, too. They are often just more interesting than the likable characters and it's so interesting to me to find out why they are the way they are.

An..."

haha, sure, most books are about relationships. However, I was wondering where the book is from the perspective of a tree's lifetime the other day.

Congrats on completing the list Janet and (sort of completing) Elizabeth! I'm very far behind. Though doing better than I thought.

[Amy]

BRACKET Competition is LIVE! :)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...

I'm still picking at it, but folks can load their predictions to bide the time. Will freeze the predicitions it at 6am PST Friday Mar 6th

(also starting a bracket competition thread separately)

[Bretnie]

Amy wrote: "BRACKET Competition is LIVE! :)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...

I'm still picking at it, but folks can load their predictions t..."

Sweet, thanks Amy!

[Jennifer]

So far, I've read less than half the shortlist, but I focused on the higher seeds. And I have every book I haven't read on hold at the library. My strategy is that, if one or two lower seeds break through, I can read them before the second round. I'll be in big trouble if there are lots of upsets! my favorite so far is Girl, Woman, Other, which was incredibly pleasurable to read. My least favorite was Water Dancer; I couldn't stop comparing it (unfavorably) to Underground Railroad.

And I continue to be grouchy that Disappearing Earth, Inland, and Drive Your Plow were left off the shortlist. I'm sure I'll get over it once the games begin!

[Kyle]

man, Inland was so good.

[Amy]

OOPS! I originally posted a "can view" link - it's updated now to 'can edit'

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...

[[deleted user]]

Amy wrote: "BRACKET Competition is LIVE! :)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...

Thanks, Amy!

[Caroline]

Well, I got through 9 books, plus about half of two others -- that may be as far as I go this year, though i often ended up picking one I hadn't gotten to because the discussion is interesting.

Got in the ToB spirit by attending a Lauren Groff reading last night. 'Fates and Furies' isn't a particular favorite of mine but she had interesting things to say about the writing process.

[Alison]

I'm partway through Overthrow and maybe it's just that my expectations were so very (very, very) low, but I'm finding it not terrible. Better written than Oval, by a lot.

And yesterday my hold for Nothing to See Here finally came up, so I'm going to be a completist this year.

So looking forward to tomorrow. See you over there, guys!

[Bretnie]

Maybe I'm losing steam but I left All This Could Be Yours for last and I'm tempted to DNF. If I'm not liking the first half, will the second half change my mind?

[Aaron]

Bretnie, I know others felt differently, but I found All This Could Be Yours to be absolutely pointless and unpleasant. The whole way through. The worst bit is actually right near the end (the coroner bit; positively dripping with calculation and so turned me off).

[Amy]

Bretnie wrote: "Maybe I'm losing steam but I left All This Could Be Yours for last and I'm tempted to DNF. If I'm not liking the first half, will the second half change my mind?"

I felt like Attenberg writes excellent scenes and dialogue but I didn't really care much about any of the characters - likely wouldn't have finished if not for audio. that being said, I would give it a try .... it's pretty consistent throughout so if you don't like the first few chapters, drop it.

[Bretnie]

Thanks Aaron and Amy. I'm doing the audiobook also, so I guess the lift is light for finishing the last 2.5 hours, but I think you guys have given me permission to do some serious multitasking during those hours. :)

It's a combination of not caring much for the characters and not wanting to spend one more second thinking about Victor, even if it's other people's hatred of him or the possibility that he dies.

[Patty]

Here is the latest:

https://themorningnews.org/tob/?fbcli...

[Tim]

Bretnie wrote: "Maybe I'm losing steam but I left All This Could Be Yours for last and I'm tempted to DNF. If I'm not liking the first half, will the second half change my mind?"

I don't think so. I was really looking forward to this book because I loved =All Grown Up= so much.... I made it to the end - I'll save my full commentary for the tournament - but it wasn't as good as I had hoped. Better than some of the tournament clunkers, but I'd be very surprised to find it on the winners podium.

I don't think you miss much with a DNF except a couple more repeats of how much better off women would be without men. (I'm not taking a stand on that question one way or another, I'm just saying the author belabored the point in a way which made me think she didn't trust her readers. Fans can feel free to take this as an opportunity to explain to me what I missed....)

[Amy]

Tim wrote: "the author belabored the point in a way which made me think she didn't trust her readers...."

yeah - a lot of "Gals, PSA: You don't have to put up with [infidelity, abuse, alcoholism, gambling... other vices] just because your mother's generation did!" um, thanks Jamie Attenburg, didn't know that!

[Amy]

yay! Girl, Woman, Other (paper) copy just hit the library for me so I can actually finish before Thursday! It's a sign folks (likely that I shoulda picked it to sweep).

[Ellen]

OK, just finished All This Could Be Yours, and I liked it fine, although I struggle to see why it's ToB-worthy when, say, Disappearing Earth was not. So I am now an official completist for this year. I'm still annoyed at the play-in decision but glad I chose Golden State for my zombie pick, although I'm pretty sure others will overtake it.

So my rankings are:

1) Mary Toft
2) Golden State
3) Nothing to See Here
4) Your House Will Pay
5) The Testaments
6) Trust Exercise
7) Fleishman is in Trouble
8) Saudade
9) Optic Nerve
10) All This Could Be Yours
11) Lost Children Archive
12) Girl Woman Other
13) The Water Dancer
14) We Cast a Shadow
15) Normal People
16) On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous
17) Oval
18) Overthrow

I will say that #5-12 are really interchangeable -- I liked them all well enough, in different ways, for different reasons, but I don't feel like any of them enhanced my life in any way and a year from now I suspect I'll barely remember anything about them, except for Trust Exercise, because I was lucky enough to be a commentator on it for the Summer ToB, which probably also accounts for its relatively high placement on the list, since I've thought about it more than most of the others.

13-18, I mostly actively (although not violently -- no Wittgenstein, Jr.s or Ban en Banlieues in there, although Oval and Overthrow came close) disliked, for various reasons.

And 1- 4, I really, really REALLY liked, which is a lot for me for the ToB, to have 3 5-star reads and one very high 4-star.

[Peggy]

I'm not a completist (I never am, though I DO intend to complete the Super-Rooster) but your rankings, Ellen, seems to shake out most closely to mine and what I've read thus far. Namely how much I actively dislike The Water Dancer, which came as a surprise. And how much I just didn't "get" or really enjoy On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous.

The Testaments and Mary Toft were happy surprises. And Your House Will Pay is the discovery of the tournament for me, as I hadn't heard of it before this.

[Ellen]

Yes, that's very similar to how I felt -- unhappy surprise at how much I didn't like The Water Dancer (and found it badly written, of all things, not to mention trite and cliche-ridden), and felt oddly judged by On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous, because I couldn't grasp whatever the story was suppose to be throughout all the flowery poetry of the language and that made me feel stupid.

Your House Will Pay was indeed the surprise, since I came in already really, really liking Golden State and having Mary Toft and Nothing to See Here already on my radar/list, so those three being my top three wasn't surprising, but having Your House Will Pay come in at 4th was.

[Kyle]

I'm in the middle of Girl, Woman, Other, with the hope of finishing before Thursday when it's up against Nothing to See Here. (Unless it really starts wowing me, I'm rooting for NTSH.)

My rankings would be as follows:

1) Nothing to See Here
2) Mary Toft
3) Your House Will Pay
4) Lost Children Archive
5) Fleishman
6) On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous
7) Golden State
8) Normal People
9) We Cast a Shadow
10) Water Dancer
11) All This Could Be Yours
12) Trust Exercise

and I didn't finish Overthrow.

[Ed]

Been enjoying seeing everyone's rankings... after following ToB for 11 years (more of a lurker here now), this will also be my first year as a completist and all read in-print/on-Kindle (currently on my last one - 'Overthrow'). It's not something I have ever attempted or even striven for, but this year had a good chunk of the short list read before it was announced and enough time and interest in reading what books were left.

I'm about 40% through 'Overthrow' and, no huge surprise, currently I don't see it getting beyond #16 at best, but here are my rankings.

1. Water Dancer
2. Girl, Woman, Other
3. Lost Children Archive
4. Golden State
5. Nothing to See Here
6. Optic Nerve
7. Fleishman
8. Mary Toft
9. Your House Will Pay
10. On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous
11. Normal People
12. Testaments
13. We Cast a Shadow
14. All This Could Be Yours
15. Saudade
16. Trust Exercise
17. Oval

Have been a bit surprised (even shocked) over the lack of love (or even like) for 'Water Dancer.' My average ratings for all the books is about a 3.2, which is pretty low for me (only the 4 books earned 4 or more stars from me). Pretty funny that the year I finally read the entire list is probably one of the my lowest average overall rated years.

[Lauren]

Ed wrote: "Been enjoying seeing everyone's rankings... after following ToB for 11 years (more of a lurker here now), this will also be my first year as a completist and all read in-print/on-Kindle (currently ..."

Congrats on the completist status! I wouldn't have been able to do it without audiobooks, so I admire those who can find the time to read all of them in print.

It seems like The Water Dancer has mixed reviews from this group, but maybe the judgement for that one will help us all appreciate some of its finer points. My bracket has it moving forward since Optic Nerve did not work on audio (and I ran out of time to read the print version).

[Amy]

Ed wrote: "Been enjoying seeing everyone's rankings... after following ToB for 11 years (more of a lurker here now), this will also be my first year as a completist and all read in-print/on-Kindle (currently ..."

oh my! Water Dancer first! I'm finishing up GWO before Thursday but I'd be surprised if I manage WD by Friday as a result and I was half waiting to see if it was knocked out before I committed to pushing through. Hope you've commented in the thread on what made it #1 for you!

[Peggy]

I too have really enjoyed all the "completists" supplying their rankings. They have all provided fascinating insights.

As one who has not been enjoying Water Dancer, I'm actually looking forward to the judgement to see what I've missed.

[Amy]

Peggy wrote: "I too have really enjoyed all the "completists" supplying their rankings. They have all provided fascinating insights.

As one who has not been enjoying Water Dancer, I'm actually looking forward ..."

I'm afraid if I rank mine, the order will be different than my GR ratings :)

[Matthew]

I've been really impressed with the overall strength of the tourney field this year. I've read the entire short list with the exception of Girl, Woman, Other (which I'm reading right now and it is knocking my socks off). With the disclaimer that GWO may end up at or near the top of my list, I'd rank them this way:

1. Lost Children Archive
2. We Cast a Shadow
3. Mary Toft
4. Optic Nerve
5. On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous
6. Golden State
7. Nothing to See Here
8. Fleishman
9. Trust Exercise
10. The Water Dancer
11. Overthrow
12. Your House Will Pay
13. Saudade
14. All This Could Be Yours
15. The Testaments
16. Normal People
17. Oval

[Carmel]

Congratulations on those who have read all of the selections. I haven't, but did make it through a few. Of those I read, here are my rankings:

Girl, Woman Other
Your House Will Pay
On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous
The Water Dancer
We Cast a Shadow
Mary Toft
Nothing to See Here
Saudade
Normal People

As it turns out, in almost all brackets, the one I read is up against one I didn't. I guess I'll get to see if any of my choices win, and if the judges convince me to read the competing book!