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Authorial tics that make you *sigh*
I dunno - my father certainly did. I probably do to. Tho raising both is much more common. I do see now that it was excessive but never noticed it while reading
FWIW, I actually have released a breath only to realize I'd been holding it, though it happens more when I'm concentrating on sonething, not out of fear. Not that I've often been that kind of afraid...I also do raise my eyebrow at people. A lot. Though I can't say I know many people who do, or not that I've noticed.
Anthony wrote: "“Adolin narrowed his eyes at the man, and Sadeas raised an eyebrow,”"This one's my favorite: a narrowed eyes/raised eyebrow double whammy!
GRRM in one book mentioned stuff slipping off Dany's should so ay times that it was causing me to roll my eyes...
I am a single eyebrow raiser! It's my one skill in this life.
I do it too, all the time. But I do have one other skill: I can close my nostrils the way seals do. I've never read *that* in a book!
*hah* Nice! That list is tempting me to collect similar one of some of the numerous 'starts' in Blackout / All Clear (including all would make a book of their own).I might have to admit to being an eyebrow raiser too, now that I think about it. But usually both. And it's not like there would be a single trademark, 'applies to all' gesture (that I would've noticed), but rather, general expressiveness with brows.
Perhaps that would've strengthened Sanderson's eyebrow game as well: to describe the variety of expressions eyebrows are capable of instead of just chucking the default gesture where ever there was room for it.
Ah, Trike, trust you to know that hundred doesn’t actually mean 100. And yes, it does sound like something Martin would know. He never once said half a short hundred though.
Following are but samplings of the numerous times Blackout / All Clear "starts over"... or in, out, up, down, across, along and what ever else.About 180 times in each book, which - aside the frequency - also seems indicative of how regularly the expression appears. Observe:
"Phipps nodded, said, “I’ll be here,” and started for the door."
"She interrupted Gerald to say, and started for the door."
"She crossed the street, looking both ways this time, and started along the sunlit High."
"She started across the quad with Polly in her wake."
"They started out through the gate and nearly collided with Colin."
"He started down the road toward the village."
"...she said and started across the road."
"He started down the quay."
"He started back along the row"
"Polly started down the road past the buildings"
"She heaved herself up and started across the room"
"She started through the listings"
"He turned angrily and started back down to the village."
"She started past him."
"started back toward the gate."
"He started back for it"
"Mrs. Rickett started over to Polly."
"She started toward the Central Line"
"started down the broad Strand."
"She started cautiously across the courtyard."
"they started into the hospital"
"Jonathan started for the hatch."
"She would need to start off early tomorrow morning"
"starting home from work"
"started up the stairs to take off her coat and hat"
"Mike said, starting toward him."
"He ducked under the rope, and started up onto the mound. “I’m coming,” Polly said and started back toward the edge"
"started rapidly up the street"
"She shut it and started toward the store."
"started out of the chair"
"Polly started through the crowd toward them"
"she thought, starting down to her counter"
"started back into the pub"
"They started through the scene."
"started along the platform toward the exit"
"started after her."
"She started toward the Central Line."
"he was able to start in on his own news articles"
"She started up the car and edged into traffic."
"Eileen said, starting through the clot of passengers"
"started through the slippage analysis"
"He started back up the hill"
"He started down the lane"
"started them through the Scrooge-confronts-his-own-death scene"
"starting over to the tube map"
"She started along the fence."
"She started into it."
"EILEEN WATCHED THE WARDEN START AROUND THE INCENDIARY"
"started along the tunnel"
"She started confidently down the corridor."
"He started for the ambulance."
"The ambulance started up immediately."
"breaking away from the man’s grasp and starting across the courtyard"
"started through the wreckage"
"started across the wreckage"
"started straight for them"
"He started after her"
"He started toward her."
"she started for the National Gallery"
"He started inland from the docks"
"started carefully across the sea of openwork metal supports"
"The printing press started up."
"Binnie started after him and then stopped. "
You could also probably put together a whole narrative with lifts and doors and the like from these:
"Miss Snelgrove patted her hand and started toward the lifts."
"started after her toward the lift."
"Polly thought, starting blindly for the lift."
"She started toward the lifts."
"started out of the lift."
"MARJORIE STEPPED OFF THE LIFT AND STARTED ACROSS the floor"
"Mike said and started back across the floor."
"Polly said and started toward the escalator."
"starting up the escalator."
"She started over to the escalator to go back down."
"Eileen and Polly started toward the stairs"
"She started for the stairs."
"She heard them start up the stairs."
"started down the stairs."
"They started back upstairs."
"starting up the next set of stairs"
"Eileen started up the steps"
"he was already starting down the steps"
"He started up the steps toward Polly."
"she said, starting down the steps"
"started up the broad steps"
"She started quickly down the steps."
"started down the steps on the side of the stage"
"starting toward the door"
"started for the door"
"they all started through the doorway and down the corridor"
"Polly ducked past him and started for the door."
"She took off her jacket and started for the door."
"She started toward the door."
"started up the steps to the door"
*whew*
And then there's this: "She started the car and started down the drive."
That’s funny. I never once noticed it, but I do see that it does in fact appear a lot.
It must be a testament to how much you were able to get immersed into the story ^^ I myself indeed never noticed the sighs (or the eyebrows) while listening the Way of Kings.
I’m sure now that you pointed it out that I’ll start to notice them myself. Sigh.
I am so sorry! (but yeah, if anyone's ever looking for a literary drinking games...).
"Started" is now one of those words that I've seen so many times it's starting 😁 to lose any meaning.
I'm someone who can only raise both eyebrows.
Jemppu wrote: "Following are but samplings of the numerous times Blackout / All Clear "starts over"... or in, out, up, down, across, along and what ever else.About 180 times in eac..."
I can't say I've noticed this .... but I will now. Dammit. :))
Trike wrote: "Mary Robinette Kowal’s characters are constantly biting their lips and always on the verge of throwing up.I really like her stories, but she overuses those things a LOT."
Yes. Similarly, I hate when a character "chews their lip" - it makes me cringe. Often the authors who use this phrase use it a lot. I do not get it.
I also don't like obvious foreshadowing and didn't finish the mentioned book for that reason.
MrsJoseph *grouchy* wrote: "I'm someone who can only raise both eyebrows."Me too, but my son raises one at me regularly (playfully, and not in re' Spock).
Becky wrote: "Eva wrote: ""Their tongues battled for dominance". That's not how kissing works.""He took possession of her mouth."
Kinky.
In the early books of The Dresden Files, Jim Butcher made the MC "narrow his eyes" at people practically every page (seemed like). I think maybe it was to evoke a film noir feeling, since the basic premise was Phillip Marlowe with magic. I imagine someone pointed it out to him around book 4, because he eventually reduced the eye narrowing to just three or four times per book. I feel like he throws it in deliberately now as a shout out to the old days.
This thread is reminding me of how after all the outrage in Harry Potter fandom over Harry's CAPSLOCK of rage in Order of the Phoenix I did a reread of the series and documented each instance of all caps in each book. It was fun for me at least. Ended up doing the same thing for the last two books as well. Link to the blog posts that record the CAPS
Harry Potter and the CAPSLOCKER's Stone! :D
Ken wrote: "In the early books of The Dresden Files, Jim Butcher made the MC "narrow his eyes" at people practically every page (seemed like). I think maybe it was to evoke a film noir feeling, since the basic..."One of my friends always listed a count of the "hells bells" that appeared in each installment of The Dresden Files. Oddly enough even though I had read his reviews before ever reading the books I never noticed them that much.
if it's the same character saying the same swear phrase over and over, I think it's normal. Most people in real life only have one or two swear words they use and most people who work in the oilfield only have one adverb and adjective that they use and it's usually in at least every other sentence (hint: it begins with f)
CBRetriever wrote: "if it's the same character saying the same swear phrase over and over, I think it's normal. Most people in real life only have one or two swear words they use..."LOL You should meet my family!
Becky wrote: "LOL You should meet my family! "are they of the f-word type or the rare individuals who are creative with their swear words/phrases?
CBRetriever wrote: "Becky wrote: "LOL You should meet my family! "are they of the f-word type or the rare individuals who are creative with their swear words/phrases?"
Creative and effusive.
I can't stand anymore "his knuckles went white while gripping the steering wheel", "the muscles of his jaw feathered" or "her hand had half-moons due to her nails" or "she sighed, he sighed, they sighed" or any mentions of belly/stomach/felling nauseous due to emotion and so on.It already happened of me not buying a book or audiobook because on the first page I had seen the f* word. It is OK in a tv series as long as you don't see it in every line of dialogue, but in books it's kind of tasteless.
Leticia wrote: ""her hand had half-moons due to her nails" This bothers me a lot, though I try not to let it.
I have SHARP nails. Very sharp. So sharp my husband compares them to babies nails. I easily cut, scratch, etc myself and others if I don't pay attention (meaning regular filing!). My nails are also brittle - they break easy into strange SHARP angles...
And yet... No matter how hard I try, the most damage I can do are parenthesis.
I seem to recall an awful lot of things being "ineffable" in Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch when I read it many years ago. But that doesn't seem like a word a lazy author would use... so maybe the repetition was intentional? All I know is that I still don't quite understand what it actually means, why one would choose to use it.Edit - I should have said "why *they* chose to use it, what it meant to them."
Oh sure, of course I looked up the definition. But it's not the kind of word that is used exactly the way the definition would suggest. Like saying the knife aimed at your throat is sparkly... most would say bright, or glinting, but not sparkly, even though that means just about the same thing.Have you read Good Omens? It just seemed odd the way it kept cropping up. And I couldn't easily tell, each time, whether it was meant in the "ineffable joy" or the "ineffable disgust" sense that MW gives... it was always just "ineffable." ... full stop. (Iirc.)
"Ineffability is concerned with ideas that cannot or should not be expressed in spoken words (or language in general), often being in the form of a taboo or incomprehensible term. This property is commonly associated with philosophy, aspects of existence, and similar concepts that are inherently "too great", complex or abstract to be communicated adequately. A typical example is the name of God in Judaism, written as YHWH but substituted with "the Lord" or "HaShem" (the name) when reading."Ineffable is a somewhat common concept in spiritual philosophy, as in talking about concepts which can't fully be conceived of nor explained. Things of an experiential or gnostic nature - something which has to be felt/experienced, but not fully understood.
It's either because a) the concept is too profound or infinite for our finite minds or b) because it's bollocks and it's a handy way of getting around having to actually define things. (Depending on whether you're of a spiritual or atheistic bend.) ^_^
Yeah, thanks, that helps in general,I guess. But I'm talking about how it was used by Gaiman and Pratchett in Good Omens... was it an authorial tic with them, or what exactly were they pulling... ?
Eva wrote: "Thank you, Beth! That helps.Unpronounceable names. Extra minus points if they contain apostrophes. Extra extra minus points if they all start with the same letter or syllable (ahem, VORkosigan series - you are my all-time favorite, but still!)..."
See also: unnecessary made-up words. We get that this is fantasy-land, but calling a fork a flinhoffler doesn't make it any more magical.
See also, even worse edition: made up words that are bastardizations of existing words -- calling a fork a "forque." Guess what? Still a fork.
Hi Cheryl. About the use of ineffable in Good Omens. You can be sure every single word uttered in a Neil Gaiman (and I suppose also Pratchett, though I don’t know him well) book is entirely on purpose. Even when he’s being lazy, he’s being lazy on purpose. This is not one of those moments, though.The word ineffable appears 18 times in the Good Omens book. They use the word when discussing the great plan that’s incomprehensible and unknowable to anyone but God. They talk about this plan quite a lot through the book, as it’s a big part of the plot. It’s Aziraphale who first uses the phrase, and Crowley thinks it’s quite ridiculous to have an unknowable anything so he’ll use the word about other things sarcastically, like “You lot get ineffable mercy” or “Free will for everyone. Ineffable, right?”
Most of the time it’s used in the context of “the ineffable plan”, though, again referring to a specific event. So i personally don’t see that it’s overly used or thrown in as a substitute for random other words. It’s meant in a fun way to express that literally no one, not even Neil, knows what that plan really is. Cue a book about an angel and a demon who want to help the world but don’t really know if they’re helping or making it worse or if it’s all a part of the ineffable plan anyway, and then they have lunch ^_^
Great explanation, Dawn! I agree wholeheartedly. This thread is about what stroke us as individuals as being overdone, whatever the reason (or lack thereof), so if it bugs, Cheryl, I think it’s valid.
Oh yes, I didn’g mean to say Cheryl’s feeling of overuse of that word isn’t valid, but she asked specifically why the word is used so much and what they mean by it, so that’s what I tried to answer :)
Oooh and because I was looking to quote this in my first post but couldn’t find it until now, you get it now. I saw this photo on IG or Tumblr, on Neil Gaiman’s writing:“Me, writing: Every word has to be perfect and convey the exact mood and emotion I want it to without making the sentence sound bizarre.
Neil Gaiman: (quote from Good Omens script book) Crowley glares at him, glarefully.”
That’s what I meant with when he’s being lazy it’s completely on purpose and a typical Neil Gaiman thing to do 😄
Dawn, that's a big help. Diane, I thank you, but now that I understand how the authors were using the word, it neither bugs me nor seems like a tic. I sincerely appreciate this conversation from every one of you who participated and now I feel ready to re-read the book and appreciate it more!
not sure if it's a tic, but apostrophes in names kinda bugs me.
I detest the apostrophes in names as well.
It's maybe petty, but I hate sentences with two "but"s, usually occurring at the beginning and then again after a comma. Robin Hobb is especially prone to this sentence structure.
Michelle wrote: "I detest the apostrophes in names as well."Yeah, get stuffed, Hawai’i!
You, too, Flannery O’Connor!
Suck it, Conan O’Brien!
Same to you, Lupita Nyong’o!
Bite me, Vincent D’Onofrio!
Who do you think you are, D’Artagnan?
How dare you sing so loverly, Auli’i Cravalho!
@Cheryl I hope you enjoy it upon second reading! Either it won’t bug or you’ll be hyper focussed on the word now lol XD
@Trike *hah* You make a good point.
you forgot:Tess of the d'Urbervilles
Oh, I’m glad, @Cheryl! Because I felt like Dawn’s explanation was just perfect and balanced and not really trying to change your mind or anything, but I wanted to make sure you didn’t feel dismissed.
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation (other topics)Too Like the Lightning (other topics)
Unfamiliar Fishes (other topics)
Trail of Lightning (other topics)
Too Like the Lightning (other topics)
More...
“He raised an eyebrow.”
“The woman raised an eyebrow.”
“He raised an eyebrow at that.”
“Jasnah picked up the letter, raising an eyebrow,”
“Jasnah raised an eyebrow at her”
“Yalb raised an eyebrow at her.”
“He raised an eyebrow,”
“She raised an eyebrow.”
“Adolin raised an eyebrow at him.”
“Wit raised an eyebrow.”
“Sadeas raised an eyebrow.”
“The king raised an eyebrow at him,”
“Adolin narrowed his eyes at the man, and Sadeas raised an eyebrow,”
“Kaladin raised an eyebrow.”
“Kadash raised an eyebrow”
“Elhokar glanced at him, raising an eyebrow.”
“Teft raised an eyebrow.”
“Navani asked, raising an eyebrow at him.”
“Rock raised an eyebrow.”
“Enhanced?” Kaladin asked, raising an eyebrow.”
“Roion raised an eyebrow.”
“She raised an eyebrow at Shallan,”
“Jasnah raised a skeptical eyebrow.”
“That got only an eyebrow raise.”
“Jasnah raised an eyebrow at her.”
“Toweling off, Jasnah raised an eyebrow at her.”
“Shallan raised an eyebrow.”
“Jasnah raised an eyebrow.”
“He raised an eyebrow at her.”
“The young brightlord raised an eyebrow.”
“Jasnah raised an eyebrow.”
“Several of the bridgemen seemed confused by what Kaladin had said about emotions, though Teft just raised an eyebrow and Moash yawned.”
There are about 27 more occasions in the rest of the novel, but I think you get the point...
I challenge you to observe anyone in real life ever doing this. I submit that almost no one ever does, unless they are imitating Spock.