The Slow Regard of Silent Things (The Kingkiller Chronicle, #2.5) The Slow Regard of Silent Things discussion


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Rothfuss Expose: What "The Slow Regard of Silent Things" really means for KKC fans!!

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message 1: by [deleted user] (last edited Oct 31, 2014 04:56PM) (new)

Tolkien, Lucas, and JK Rowling never had to tell people that they had to be especially broken or "special snowflake" people to like their stories/books. It's baffling PR is categorizing his fans like this as if to create a sense of insecurity in us about honestly critiquing the shortcomings of the story. It's like there's an attempt being made at creating a demographic of fan he feels comfortable with reading his book. The Demographic is epic fantasy and he well knows it.

It is my belief that an epic fantasy Author who apologizes for his work knows deep down inside there is a voice called his conscience he is not listening to ......That voice or instinct is the part of himself that once had a taste for what he was doing. The part of him that knew he was making a huge mistake releasing this book.

Don't get me wrong........a very good attempt at making a silk purse out of a sow's ear was made here, but no matter how poetic, it's still a sow's ear.

Even with the apology and excuses I would diplomatically suggest.....

When you claim to have written a 3 book series of epic fantasy and you have released 2 of those books, you have set up the expectations of your epic fantasy fans yourself for book 3. It comes off especially pretentious to explain away that expectation by writing in comments by friends who defend the letdown of that expectation in the last chapter of the disappointing book, itself.

I've never heard of any author doing this so there is no precedent.

But say somehow you didn't think "The Slow Regard of Silent things" had anything to do with book 3 prior to reading it....

A decent human being would know his fans were buying his book because they liked the previous works. Heck, I would have been satisfied simply getting some good background story about Auri and some insight into the part she is playing in the KKC. Or, just something about why she ended up where she did......Was she the Princess rescued from the Barrow King? A Fae? But, that wasn't the case....I still don't have a clue about those aspects of her character. I paid 10 bucks and I got her finding things and making soap and I really know nothing more about her character than I did previously. Nothing.

The only justice I perceive for this gross disrespect of my time and money is the entertainment value I get from calling out what I believe to be a hack author.

And............I was a fan. I told people who got me into fantasy and sci fi, ......."hey you should check this Rothfuss guy out." I compared him to the best. I believe the utter deflation here will be legend amongst a certain group of fantasy fans.

Maybe not the "specials".

But according to Amazon, 1 of every 3 people who were big enough fans to buy the book in the first few days are willing to be characterized as un-special and accept the ridicule of their un-specialness. 1 out of every 3. It's only a matter of time before a certain percentage of the specials, after introspection, admit they feel duped and reveal they simply wanted to be included in the Author's special snowflake group fan club.

Ultimately, absolutely everyone will know they are duped in a few years....when book 3 never comes to fruition, or it reveals itself to be another lazy poetic brain fart.

The ultimate proof of my estimation. I think we all see it coming.

Perhaps P. Rothfuss belongs headlining a spoken word poetry marathon in San Fran begging for pennies rather than suffering comparisons to the true geniuses of epic fantasy. .Patrick Rothfuss


idcboobs It's a 150 page book being sold for $10, it replaced all the hype for the third book. The main purpose for this book is to make Patrick money, if anyone deny's that; that need to get their head out of their ass and realize their great author is a shithead.

Not to mention that the characters already had developed personality's from the previous novels, meaning the book probably only took like a few weeks to complete.

He told us he'd finished the books, the books were coming out at yearly intervals, it's been seven years and we have 2 books and baby sized money making piece of shit.

Idk how his fans could possibly defend him


Martin Jovanovski Idcboobs wrote: "It's a 150 page book being sold for $10, it replaced all the hype for the third book. The main purpose for this book is to make Patrick money, if anyone deny's that; that need to get their head out..."

I don't know if making money was his major purpose. I think he wanted to present something weird and had the background and the fanbase to act upon it.
Speaking for the story itself, i enjoyed it as much as i can any dialog-less story. I can say its well written. And i can say that i know now that the underthing is not as dangerous as presented in the books (i though it had monsters or something worse down there). And i can hope that Auri is some kind of cracked Namer, realising every object purpose/intent/feeling??? Also i too would have liked some background story, or even info dump about something from the world .. I was somewhat disapointed! What i'm really angry is that everything seems to be more important than finishing the final book...


Daniel Hughes I'm pretty sure most authors write to make money? In all fairness he started writing this novella as a short story for Martin's Rogues anthology, once it got past the maximum length for a short story in said anthology he shelved it and wrote a Bast story instead(which is really good by the way).


idcboobs Martin wrote: "I don't know if making money was his major purpose. I think he wanted to present something weird and had the background and the fanbase to act upon it. "

why didn't he just release the third book then


And daniel, that's completely true, most if not all authors write to make money. However; most authors won't admit that, which really does influence a lot of fans to defend an author on the basis that they must write because they enjoy it.

And honestly, releasing a novella that started as a short story for $10 just makes me disgusted


Daniel Hughes Do you hate Martin then as well?


idcboobs Daniel wrote: "Do you hate Martin then as well?"

by now everyone hates Martin


Krystal I didn't see any apologies in the after-word of the book. It seems some people have a bone to pick with life and are projecting it into this book. You don't own Patrick Rothfuss and he doesn't owe anyone any books. This entitlement to Patrick Rothfuss' creativity I see in here does not bode well.


idcboobs OK wrote: "I didn't see any apologies in the after-word of the book. It seems some people have a bone to pick with life and are projecting it into this book. You don't own Patrick Rothfuss and he doesn't owe ..."

wanna tell us why he doesn't owe us?

a lot of people keep saying this but they don't explain it.

I mean without people buying his books he wouldn't be rich enough to host a charity event every week and ignore the writing of his books, so why wouldn't he owe us?

Idk about you but personally i feel that him lying to people before his first book released to get people to buy it does in fact entitle me to his "creativity" seeing as how he manipulated people into purchasing his "creativity"

you know what, you're defending him like he's a great person, if he's so great why did he lie to literally everyone who bought his books and basically scam people into buying his first novel?

please answer with an actual response, i'd love to hear the reasoning you have


message 10: by Marc (new) - rated it 2 stars

Marc Jones Fohgetdatshit wrote: "I put Rothfuss and The Kingkiller Chronicles on par with the Inheritance cycle now"

In defense of Pat hes a bit more talented than a kid who wrote a star wars with Dragons fan fic.


message 11: by Krystal (last edited Nov 19, 2014 08:52AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Krystal Idcboobs wrote: "OK wrote: "I didn't see any apologies in the after-word of the book. It seems some people have a bone to pick with life and are projecting it into this book. You don't own Patrick Rothfuss and he d..."

Why are you holding on to this "promise" that he off-handedly mentioned in an interview over 5 years ago? Unless he's made a more recent "1 book every year" "Promise"? Did he even "Promise" that in the first place? He's not your personal entertainment system that you can press play and have a 1,000 page work of art pop out of. He didn't manipulate you into buying anything. It took him 10 years to write the first book, even if he has the third entirely written, his universe is so complex it may warrant some re-writing (especially if he is going to continue writing in the same universe, which he's said he'll do and *gasp* has done with two novellas so far!) to create a coherent end to the trilogy. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree, because I'd rather wait another 10 years for a story the calibur of Name of the Wind than to have him spit something out because the internet is complaining.


message 12: by Chrisl (new)

Chrisl Rarely have I reread SFF books with satisfaction. Robin Hobb's Assassin series and the first two by Patrick Rothfuss are among the exceptions. May read them again.

Like OK said, if necessary, I'll wait another 10 years, with positive expectation, to read the third book book in the series. Slow Regard was an aberration, very disappointing, not a book I'd recommend, but even 300% hitters strike out between their extra base hits.


message 13: by Marc (last edited Nov 19, 2014 11:09AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Marc Jones Fohgetdatshit wrote: "Not me. I already see the writing on the wall. I would read if someone paid me, otherwise its a complete waste of time.

P. Rothfuss is a time and money vampire."


I just noticed you called Pat a khan artist.
So aside from from wasting time on learning lock picking, trying stand up comedy and sending dairy cows to lactose intolerant populations he also paints great mongols of the ages.
Finally an explanation for the wait I can live with.


message 14: by Marc (new) - rated it 2 stars

Marc Jones Fohgetdatshit wrote: "I fixed it and hopefully the re-edit is a little better."

I thought it was fine the way it was.


Jeremy If he wanted money, why go in such an experimental, non-commercial direction?

I grant you the "special people" angle rubbed me the wrong way, but I don't think Pat did it just to make a quick buck.

I'd call him self-indulgent, but not a con-artist.


idcboobs god i remember reading the final book in the inheritance cycle, i think i repressed that memory

also, since we can see a visual degrade in quality of Pats books i think it is safe to assume he didn't bulk write the trilogy (making him a liar) and judging be the quality of TSROST i don't think we can expect much from the trilogy finale.


45 years into the future people are gonna be talking about how they can't wait for Kvothe's grandson trilogy's second book since the 2.87 novella story really opened a lot more questions



inheritance though


Daniel Hughes Fohgetdatshit wrote: "@Dijon

It's not experimental........that's a cop out. It's a character study that is being released as a book because someone didn't make his deadline for the umpteenth time and everyone at the p..."


Stop using ellipses incorrectly you're driving me insane. Er, what I mean to say is stop.... using ellipses....... incorrectly..... you're... driving me.... insane.

Wait, are you William Shatner?


idcboobs Daniel wrote: "Fohgetdatshit wrote: "@Dijon

It's not experimental........that's a cop out. It's a character study that is being released as a book because someone didn't make his deadline for the umpteenth time..."



I think he uses them as extreme comma's, to be honest though for me it's a bit less strain on my eyes


idcboobs Fohgetdatshit wrote: "sorry, I'm a bit of an editor. I suppose I mean it as extreme comma's, yes. Pauses if you will. I would re-read as I usually go back and edit what I'm saying out of sheer habit. I worked for ye..."

i prefer the ellipses


David Man, a lot of you are REAL butthurt, aren't you? Let's address the two most common butthurt complaints.

1) "This SUCKS, and is purely to make money and rip us off."
Pat even said on his blog, AND in the foreword, "YOU MIGHT NOT WANT TO BUY THIS BOOK". If his main goal was to make money, I doubt he'd do that. Besides, do any of you read his blog? The man started a charity, and wrote a blog post about wealth inequality in the form of an analogy about cake, and how he has plenty of cake and that's why he does charity, and it was beautiful. Money-grubbing just doesn't seem like him at all.

2) "The jerk should be writing book 3 and this is just a delaying tactic/distraction."
Writers aren't machines people, and Pat is a slow writer. Period. He just is. The idea that a book this short, focused on one character, is what's stopped book 3 from happening is ridiculous. Even if he never wrote this story, book 3 wouldn't be out. It'll take as long as it takes. I don't feel I or anyone has the right to demand anything from him. Have some tact, and some respect. Unless you have three jobs, Pat probably works harder than you do. Maybe you think he shouldn't be writing novellas and doing charity work, and that he should be 100% focused on book 3 every waking hour of the day, but that's not your decision. I know you want book 3, as do I, but you know who makes demands they have absolutely no right to make, and who can't wait for things? Children. Don't be a child. It'll come out when it comes out. Just be patient, and read other stuff in the meantime. There are plenty of fantastic authors out there, and a back-catalog of great epic fantasy that stretches back at least forty years.

The fact of the matter is that Pat obviously feels very insecure about this story (hence all the apologizing and warning), and for good reasons. It has no plot, one character, no dialogue, no real conflict. It is, as he said, a "30 thousand word vignette". And for that reason it has obviously pissed a lot of people off and made them feel ripped off money-wise. Well, I'm sorry if you feel that way, but you can't say he didn't warn you.

Personally I loved it. Just the fact that it exists at all makes Temerant feel so much more real, and Auri is a beautiful character who we never got to see enough of. I agree with Vi Hart. There are plenty of books written for people who absolutely need a plot and dialogue to get through a story. I, at least in this specific case, didn't, and I'm glad he let me buy it instead of shoving it in his trunk never to be seen again. If you didn't like it, fine, but stop trashing the author for it and saying he's "scamming" you. Pat is one of the most selfless and giving authors out there, and he obviously is very insecure about this story and knows that it's something a lot of people aren't going to be able to like. Why you gotta rub it in his face and call him names? Again, you're acting like children, so I'm going to treat you like children and tell you something your parents obviously never did--be polite, and when offering criticism make sure it's A: constructive and B: about the work and not the person.


idcboobs David wrote: "Man, a lot of you are REAL butthurt, aren't you? Let's address the two most common butthurt complaints.

1) "This SUCKS, and is purely to make money and rip us off."
Pat even said on his blog, AND..."


such a great and beautiful response david, that single quote really tore down everything i said. You're right of course, Pat saying that we might not want to buy this book disproves everything i've ever said, you have completely dismantled my review.

It's not like he would say that because he knew he would get shit for the book right? i mean you would think the author would know that a $10 150 page book about a mentally ill girl would cause controversy, in fact i'm pretty sure the reason i'm getting a few likes every day on this review is because of that very reason.

Face it david, Pat knew the book was shit that's why he said you might not want to buy it and you're falling for it completely.

The way i look at it; every book is a good book, you can look at any book through a subjective hole and tell others that it's good. You say you personally loved it, i (and many others) say it was one of the worst books i've ever read.

Why do you make excuses for him when he doesn't even bother to make excuses for his terrible writing? I mean there is that apology at the end of the book, i guess that's enough excuses for him since he knows people like you will defend him from bully's like us.


By the way, when i post dozens of examples as how he's "scamming" and "manipulating" people, it's not enough to tell me to "just stop". How about you give me some reasons as to how he isn't other than "i liked the book so it must have been good :(" because honestly, you enjoying a 150 page book about a mentally ill teenage girl tells me that you have no taste for books at all. Which would make sense since you're defending this series.


message 22: by Marc (new) - rated it 2 stars

Marc Jones Fohgetdatshit wrote: "A refund is what an honest to goodness selfless author does rather than a "too little too late" warning David. Seriously, man. Go to practically any industry and that is the case. You get a refund when your expectations and satisfaction are not met and an owner of a business is sorry.
"


For what its worth I sort of got a refund, store credit which I put towards a calender. Its a pretty great calender.
Its doesn't come with a warning explaining this may not be the calender for me, it doesn't feature a anecdote in the afterword about how "people like me get calenders made for me every year so F**K me".

I think my point is that you can just stick in a warning telling me you im not target audience when everything else in the world has to be judged on its own merits BUT its a realllllly good calender.


message 23: by Marc (new) - rated it 2 stars

Marc Jones Fohgetdatshit wrote: "I think I understand you. Right. All the stuff he wrote just came off very pretentious. If he felt so much angst, or true feelings of seller's remorse the answer is just to make it easy for peop..."

Pat should just release of book of Ambrose poems.
Fanboys will love it and it will be free from criticism because its meant to be bad.


message 24: by David (last edited Nov 26, 2014 03:57PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

David Idcboobs wrote: "This isn't butt-hurt as you describe. There are very real ways Rothfuss has been deceitful. Perhaps, its not malicious in its intent.

But, misleading people, apologies and warnings don't say I'm sorry nearly as much as a refund and that isn't/wasn't on the table.

Who reads the first chapter of a book expecting to be told whether they should or shouldn't have bought the book? You don't get said "warning", until you have already made the purchase, sat down, and read the first chapter. So, it doesn't matter if the author wrote a warning in the first chapter. By that point, its too late. It's actually almost like rubbing it in to put it there without offering a refund.

A refund is what an honest to goodness selfless author does rather than a "too little too late" warning David. Seriously, man. Go to practically any industry and that is the case. You get a refund when your expectations and satisfaction are not met and an owner of a business is sorry. "


I really, REALLY doubt it's within Pat's powers to offer a refund. That's up to his publisher, and that's just not a thing that happens. Who gets a refund because you didn't like the book? I've bought plenty of books I wound up not liking. That's how shit goes, man. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Also, the warnings aren't to tell you that the book is BAD. You may think so (I find it curious that you seem to see some sort of deeper intent in pat's opening and closing words that, I think, is just in your head, but w/e), but a lot of people obviously liked it, and I'm one of them.

The forward is to warn you that it's DIFFERENT. Very, very different. And BECAUSE of that you might not like it. It's not the same thing. Throughout his diatribes Pat repeatedly said two things.
1) This doesn't do what a story is supposed to do. Doesn't have what a story is supposed to have.
2) I really like it anyway.

Obviously you missed that second part, but Pat does indeed like this book he wrote, and he's not trying to "scam" you with a book he personally thinks is bad. Despite knowing it's very different and breaks all of the rules, he loves it, and it took several people to convince him that people other than him would also love it.

I don't feel ripped off. Sorry that you do, but it's not the author's fault, it's yours. You should've waited for reviews. You should've read the first few pages on amazon (you know they let you do that right?). You weren't a smart book-buyer, period, and you got blind-sided by something you think was garbage. Fair enough to be disappointed. To be angry? To be angry enough to spout insults at the author and his integrity? That's unhealthy and uncalled for. Move on.

EDIT: Just saw you posted more than one reply to me, so thank you SO much for questioning my taste in books. That's such an adult and intelligent way to have a discussion. I don't see why a "150 page book about a mentally ill girl" is inherently a bad thing that speaks towards bad taste, which is how you're acting. If you thought THIS particular book was bad, fine, but how in god's name is that premise just across the board bad? It's not, is the answer. I think it's less an issue of my having "bad taste" and more an issue of you thinking your opinion is in some way a fact, which it's not.

Also, any attempt to categorize me as a "blind fanboy" incapable of criticizing the works of my favorite authors is bs, just so you know. My favorite author is Neil Gaiman, but he's written some less than steller stuff (Neverwhere, Fortunately, the Milk, etc.) I am not at ALL above criticizing something by a favored author. I just genuinely enjoyed this book, even though it was, admittedly, barely a book. The damn thing is up for best fantasy of the year on here right now, so I guess other people must have liked it too. So, let's say it has "mixed reviews" then. I think something with mixed reviews deserves to be published, bought, and commented on, don't you? I think PLENTY of other books with "mixed reviews" have come out and NOT been a scam where the author secretly believed the book was absolute shit and put it out anyway, so I have no idea why you're singling out Pat for being some malicious mastermind. You bought a book you didn't like. End of story.


idcboobs David wrote: "Idcboobs wrote: "This isn't butt-hurt as you describe. There are very real ways Rothfuss has been deceitful. Perhaps, its not malicious in its intent.

But, misleading people, apologies and warnin..."


could not be bothered reading all that because a lot of it felt personal and very accusing.

Tell me, do you find it ethical to sell a novel and then stamp on the last page "sorry if you didn't like this book, if you didn't like it; it's not because it's a bad book, it's because you weren't my target audience. I know i can't offer you anything in return but please trust me, i'm a good person"

if you do you're a fanboy, simple. If you can excuse shit like this then you are simply too obsessed with an author and you refuse to look at his bad personality.


David Idcboobs wrote: "David wrote: "Idcboobs wrote: "This isn't butt-hurt as you describe. There are very real ways Rothfuss has been deceitful. Perhaps, its not malicious in its intent.

But, misleading people, apolog..."


Re-read what I said. Nothing I said was a personal attack. I'm being very cordial, in fact. YOU'RE the one who questioned MY taste in books. Never have I said anything about YOU. And that seems to be your problem, isn't it? You read a book you didn't like, and you blame the author instead of the work. He didn't just disappoint you, because that would be a normal reaction. He intentionally, maliciously ripped you off and he's a bad PERSON. That's quite a nasty way to look at the world and people my friend.

Okay, so you read the warning at the beginning, and the story at the end. You interpreted it like this:
"I'm sorry this book is so shitty, but I need money and I don't give a shit about any of you, so ha!"


I read the same thing, and this is how I interpreted it:
"I wrote this thing, and I know it's really weird and doesn't have a plot, and that a lot of people probably wouldn't like it. That's why I wasn't going to publish it, but then a friend convinced me to give it a shot, then my editor and my publisher liked it, and, well, I hope you like it too, but it's okay if you don't."


I didn't get any of that, "Well if you don't like it you're not as cool as the actual target audience" victim complex vibe that you got. He wrote a story for people who might like stories like this. Ones without plots. About little girls with mental illness. Which...obviously you have a problem with as a plot concept? No other qualifiers need apply. He's not saying people who like the book are better than those who don't; that's just how you're choosing to see it.

Becoming an author is fucking HARD. Building your reputation with fans is HARD. I highly doubt any author would just shovel out a work they knew was of poor quality without being under some pretty extreme circumstances, and Pat has plenty of money so I doubt he did it so he could eat. You may think the book is shit. You may think Pat is a shitty writer. I don't care, because that's fine. But you honestly, sincerely think that this book is some sort of scam? Like no real work went into it? Like Pat doesn't care about it, or his fans, and that he's not working his ass off on book three? That's ridiculous. And you're also right that Pat is taking a lot longer to write the Kingkiller books than he said seven years ago or w/e. But honestly, you acting like any of that is him being a bad dude trying to hurt folks is just silly.

Nobody's out to get you dude. Yeah, he may have had them "written", and the publishers may have used that as a selling point disingenuously, but most of writing is rewriting. It's not at all surprising to me that it's taking him this long to whip into shape this massive ten-year project that he started when he was way too young to even know what he was doing. There's plenty to read in the meantime. When it comes out, I'll read it, and if it's good I'll like it, and if it's not I won't. But whatever happens, Pat is by all accounts, including my own since I talked to him for like fifteen minutes at C2E2, a super nice guy and I don't appreciate you trashing on him. Not because I'm some blind fan, but because he's a good dude and he doesn't deserve that shit. Trash his work all you want, but leave him as a person out of it because he's done nothing to deserve it. You want to shit on an author as a person, go after Orson Scott Card.


Leslie sometimes being a writer is not all about us…so don't buy any more of his books if you did not like this one. I would rather he writes what he writes the way he wants to write.
We don't really have a role in this part of the process. Writing is art-sometimes it is about self-expression, not communication. I am still looking forward to book 3. Rather have it when the writer thinks it is ready, instead of when I feel it should show up on the shelves.


idcboobs Leslie wrote: "sometimes being a writer is not all about us…so don't buy any more of his books if you did not like this one. I would rather he writes what he writes the way he wants to write.
We don't really hav..."


lol i think the slow regard of silent things is a good example that letting the author do what he wants is a bad idea


MiryamDT I didn't buy it, I borrowed an e-book from the library. I don't think this was a plea for money any more than the Bast story in Rogues was. I think this is a bone thrown to the fans so that we stop harping on him for the third book.
NOT GOING TO WORK PAT!
(Though I may stop if you write another Princess and Mr Whiffle book)


message 30: by Marc (new) - rated it 2 stars

Marc Jones Idcboobs wrote: "Leslie wrote: "sometimes being a writer is not all about us…so don't buy any more of his books if you did not like this one. I would rather he writes what he writes the way he wants to write.
We d..."


King Killer - The phantom menace


Justin Lucas WOW.
What a bunch of self-entitled, undeserving, unappreciative lot the majority of you are. This book is presented with the utmost humility, written as an exploration into the mind of a character full of mystery and whimsy, to delve into her consciousness for the sake of fully realizing her depth, published as a gift to those who long for such a realization and crave another perspective into the world of Temerant. Despite the fact that this novella breaks the rules of traditional story telling, Rothfuss and co. published it so that we could have this insight, if we were so inclined; ungratefully, we've chosen to collectively spit in their faces, like a child angry that his father bought him a piece of cake instead of ice cream, while being deserving of neither. It's both disgraceful and disgusting.

"The part of him that knew he was making a huge mistake releasing this book." Rothfuss states this book was never originally intended for publishing, or rather, not in this manner. It was intended for another collaborative series, but ultimately, Rothfuss decided it didn't fit. Instead, he stayed true to himself, and more importantly, to his story. He wrote it solely to flesh out a truly unique character, so that she may be written with intent and purpose, fully realized regardless of her lack of 'screen time.' This is what good authors do. They create a world that exists in its entirety, so that we have an unbridled view through the small window by which we're privilged to glimpse it. His mistake wasn't in his writing, or his decision to publish; it was in assuming his readers could appreciate a work for its literary value and character insight, and that those who couldn't would at least heed his advice and choose to pass it over.

"When you claim to have written a 3 book series of epic fantasy and you have released 2 of those books, you have set up the expectations of your epic fantasy fans yourself for book 3."
There is still a book three. What are you getting at? That you have to wait for the book still? What's your point here? It's standard in the industry to have books come out several years apart, and delays are a normal part of that process. See: GRRM, Tolkein, Rowling, Jordan...This is the rule, not the exception.

"Heck, I would have been satisfied simply getting some good background story about Auri and some insight into the part she is playing in the KKC. Or, just something about why she ended up where she did......Was she the Princess rescued from the Barrow King? A Fae? But, that wasn't the case....I still don't have a clue about those aspects of her character. I paid 10 bucks and I got her finding things and making soap and I really know nothing more about her character than I did previously. Nothing. " This is simply your failure as a reader. Nothing more, nothing less. If you can't handle subtlety in your literature, maybe you should stick to Young Adult novels. Competent readers prefer inference and critical thinking. If you like everything spelled out explicitly for you, then you've chosen the wrong series. Again, this is your own personal failure as a reader, not Rothfuss' failure as a writer. I gleaned significant insight (although there is still uncertainty and mystery); if you'd like, I'll share my thoughts. I'd suggest instead that you reread it with a more discerning eye. Or maybe try the Twilight or Hunger Games series. I think they're more appropriate for your reading level.

"The only justice I perceive for this gross disrespect of my time and money is the entertainment value I get from calling out what I believe to be a hack author...I compared him to the best. I believe the utter deflation here will be legend amongst a certain group of fantasy fans." Again, you only have yourself to blame. Does it not strike you as odd that a writer could go from "one of the best" to a "hack" with one novella? That maybe it wasn't his skill as an author that rapidly deteriorated, but rather that your ability to read critically and appreciate prose filled with double entendre and stylistic elements is lacking? That maybe a professor of literature, who has been writing for several decades, who edited over 80 times, who sought feedback from a wide variety of writers and readers, both esteemed and amateur, didn't produce a stack of worthless words, but rather that you failed to see the beauty and skill embedded there within? Furthermore, you should be ashamed to call a piece of art that was years in the making, that has the courtesy to come with a foreword that warns potential readers that it may not be suited to their tastes, a "gross disrpesect of [your] time and money." It is most clearly quite the opposite. In fact, I can't recall any other author taking such consideration. It's a short read and costs 10 bucks. If you're that hard pressed over your 10 dollars, then you have several options: get a better job, return it from where you got it, or use the public library. Then cry me a river because your whining is really pathetic.

"Maybe not the 'specials'" His comments in regards to only a subset of people potentially liking this book isn't a dig at those who don't; rather, it's a call out to those who feel out of place in the world, who feel like they don't fit, who feel like they can relate to Auri; it's a call out to the broken. It's a statement that says "you're not alone." It's pure empathetic, heartfelt outreach and you've twisted it into a pretentious insult over your own bitterness at your incapapbility to appreciate his work. I enjoyed this novella, yet I didn't feel like I was being addressed particularly by his statement. I don't feel 'special' because I like it. Likewise, you shouldn't feel 'unspecial' because you don't. Just like how bullying has come to the forefront of western society conversation, laregly on behalf of gays, doesn't mean that those who are bullied and aren't gay shouldn't take solace in the idea that 'it gets better.' Reaching out to a particular subset of people with positive intent doesn't automatically effect a negative intent on those who don't fall into that subset. That's your own narcissism coming into play. Again, you just sound like a self-entitled child. Which is really ironic considering one of the major themes of the vignette is selflessness and restraint from unearned gratification.

To everyone saying they should be refunded, I don't know what's stopping you. Amazon, Books a Million, et. al. have return policies. Despite the fact that he warns readers, in both the book itself, his website, this website, etc., that this book is not in his typical style, does not follow standard story telling principles, does not follow the main story of KKC, and is not suited for the large majority of general readers; despite the fact that there are several options for previewing this book before buying it: you still chose to purchase it. And then you have the gall to say Rothfuss should refund you, like he should take time out of his day to personally mail you a 10 dollar cheque? If you're that intent on getting your money back, do it your own damn self. No one is stopping you. Seriously, you all disgust me. If I was Rothfuss I would never release the third book, just to spite all you whining, snivelling, self-entitled, smug, condescending assholes. I never take the time to write out long comments like this on the internet because the reality is I couldn't care less about a dozen random, anonymous internet users which will ultimately have no effect on my life. But you all are just so infuriatingly irritatiting I just couldn't let it go.

To summarize, if you didn't like this book: 1) it may just not be your style, but more than likely the blame lays with your incomptency as a reader, 2) no one owes you anything, and you should feel grateful that you were even given the chance to read it, 3) if you feel like you were cheated out of your money, you only have yourself to blame, 4) please shut up, because those of us who can appreciate good literature don't need you jading one of very few modern, competent fantasy writers capable of writing above the 8th grade level.


Leslie Justin wrote: "WOW.
What a bunch of self-entitled, undeserving, unappreciative lot the majority of you are. This book is presented with the utmost humility, written as an exploration into the mind of a character..."


I think some people in this thread misunderstand the relationship between writer and reader...


message 33: by idcboobs (last edited Dec 01, 2014 06:39PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

idcboobs Justin wrote: "WOW.
What a bunch of self-entitled, undeserving, unappreciative lot the majority of you are. This book is presented with the utmost humility, written as an exploration into the mind of a character..."


LMAO EVERY SINGLE POINT YOU MADE WAS LITERALLY VOID SINCE YOU DIDN'T MAKE ANY POINTS OMG

omg i hate to act like a child but holy shit dude, you wrote all of that and literally every single point was backed up by "because i said so" omg that was such a waste of time holy shit justin i'm so sorry but 100% of that essay you just wrote has no meaning whatsoever

and the summary holy shit "if you didn't like this book it may not be your style" hahahahaha THAT'S HOW LITERALLY EVERYTHING WORKS OMG "I DON'T LIKE THIS BOOK MHM MAYBE BECAUSE IT'S NOT MY CUP OF TEA"
"no one owes you anything and you should feel greatful etc" read the comments this time, we actually do deserve the third book on a literal (with proof) promise that Patrick made before releasing the first book, that was a promise which literally means he owes us because he made a promise omg
"if you feel like you were cheated out of your money, you only have yourself to blame" OMG NO WE DON'T LMAO BECAUSE YOUR PRECIOUS AUTHOR MADE A PROMISE THAT HE LITERALLY WOULD NOT CHEAT US OUT OF OUR MONEY SO IT IS LITERALLY HIS FAULT NOT OURS NOT TO MENTION THE APOLOGY IN TSROST HOLY SHIT THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE
"please shut up, because those of us who can appreciate good literature don't need you jading one of very few modern, competent fantasy writers capable of writing above the 8th grade level." YOU'RE CALLING TSOST GOOD WRITING OMG YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A 150 PAGE NOVELLA WITH THE MOST BORING CHARACTER IN HISTORY HOLY SHIT DUDE I CAN'T DO THIS

i realize i've used "literally" like a dozen times in this post but every single time i used it, it was not an exaggeration or a hyperbole; your whole post was *literally* that ridiculous, every single point you made has been addressed like 3 times each already.

omg justin, really i'm sorry but that whole post was so funny

EDIT: i seriously can't get over the fact that you called tsost a good book though, like the first two were good i'll admit, they were enjoyable at the least but the fact you can call this novella; which was seriously just overhyped teen girl drama, good writing is just so over the top fanboy, like you don't even make sense at this point you just say "oh yeah it's good writing, it's true because i read literature", i'm just so speechless right now


Justin Lucas "i'm just so speechless right now"

About damn time.


idcboobs Justin wrote: ""i'm just so speechless right now"

About damn time."


you have that effect on me justin :')


Justin Lucas Fohgetdatshit wrote: "@ Justin

LOL, I have to hit on a few things here from your rather unique perspective ....and thank you for reading my posts.

So, here goes. I did find this exercise a little humorous but also ..."


Well, I'm gay, so there goes your whole pedophile theory.

" I thought it was book three of the Kingkiller chronicles............The Kingkiller Chronicles.........Kingkiller. Magic, fighting, swords. Can we get back to something that "epic" fantasy is supposed to be about?"

Rothfuss stated explicitly that it wasn't. Everywhere. Book, blog, goodreads, literally everywhere. Again, that's your own fault.

"....I'm confident in my own interpretations and don't care if Shakespeare himself gave Rothfuss a stamp of approval"

Which is why I'm not going to bother explaining it to you.


message 37: by Marc (new) - rated it 2 stars

Marc Jones This novella needed more EPIC HORSE BARTERING.


idcboobs Justin wrote: "Fohgetdatshit wrote: "@ Justin

LOL, I have to hit on a few things here from your rather unique perspective ....and thank you for reading my posts.

So, here goes. I did find this exercise a lit..."



Actually this novella was titled in the king killer chronicles up until about a month before its release. There's a thread about it somewhere on this site, the moderators changed it because it clearly did not fit into the series.

By the way, rothfuss never actually said that it wasn't part of the king killer chronicles, it would be fair to assume it isn't seeing as this evolved from a short story (which he then proceeded to publish and sell...seriously?) but then again it does have a significant character, which by the way i believe was ruined by this novella, that is featured significantly within the second book.

"Which is why I'm not going to bother explaining it to you. "

No justin, you aren't going to explain it because you can't. You backed up all of your points with absolutely nothing, you seemed happy enough to validate your argument with fancy literature and words but seriously, you cannot explain what you wrote because everything you wrote was the recycled rubbish that fanboys have been spouting for months now, the same rubbish that we have answered time and time again except this time you stretched every single argument out with double meanings and metaphors. Nobody has time for that here, tell us straight what you're trying to say, i could have summed your essay up with a haiko for gods sake

i am unhappy
these people are very mean
what is evidence

please justin, just explain, don't even bother making it long, just tell us bluntly what you think is wrong with us being unhappy at your author for completely validated and 100% explained reasons, i've gone into complete detail with my review showing EXACTLY 100% how and why i hate him for what he did, what he said and how he's reacted, you on the other hand have told us we're wrong for no reason, for no other reason and finally for an absolute lack of any reason whatsoever

by the way, the way i see it; fohgetdatshit wasn't calling you a pedophile or anything, he was trying to point out to you that this novella was a backstory to a completely unknown child, a child that held so much mystery and unknown to her that massive theories have been made to how she's connected to the end story, this novella told us that instead this girl was just a teen with ocd and she enjoyed making soap or whatever the fuck, point is; that's not literature, that's not "good writing", that is cashing in on the sappy teen drama's that have been popping up everywhere over the past 3 years, the same drama that portrays mental illness as some sort of romantic "broken" image that needs fixing, which i found disgusting. Worst part is that you suggest twilight or the hunger games to people who didn't enjoy this novel when ironically this book is the EXACT SAME TROPE AS THOSE BOOKS

please respond seriously for once, you tell us nothing with your posts other than you dislike the way we talk about your favourite author, you whine about literature and good writing but you're talking about a fantasy author that's released 2 books over 8 years and a 150 page novella that he legit sold for $10


message 39: by Justin (last edited Dec 02, 2014 08:32AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Justin Lucas I'm not going to go through the effort of making a complete literary analysis of his work. It's simply too time consuming, I gain nothing from it, and you've already made it clear there's literally nothing I could say that would sway your opinion. But I see you, fohgetdatshit, like to make cinema comparisons (based on your post history), so I'll put it this way: you expected Transformers and you got Amelie. I can see why this would be upsetting, except for the fact that Rothfuss made it abundantly clear what he was putting out. It's not his fault you didn't bother to find out what you were getting, nor is it his duty to refund you (that's between you and your merchant) Book Three is still on the way. You haven't been cheated out of anything, so stop acting like you have. The only legitimate gripe is over the delay in publication. And all I can tell you is suck it up. He overpromised, likely due to his inexperience in publishing a major series prior to this one. It's an understandable mistake for a break out author, and unless you have some sort of terminal illness, I can't see why you're that caught up about it. Particularly considering you think he's such a hack, I can't imagine why you find yourself so invested in his work. I haven't been trying to prove to anyone that this book is a solid piece of literature; I just want everyone who doesn't like it to shut it with their entitlement to read the third book. It's not out yet. It will be eventually. Deal with it. That's life. Stop acting like petulant children who didn't get what they wanted. We're all in the same boat. No one really cares.


message 40: by Marc (new) - rated it 2 stars

Marc Jones Maybe if this had been packaged with the lightning tree and maybe a preview of the next novella/book people wouldnt have felt so cheaped out.


message 41: by Justin (last edited Dec 02, 2014 11:52AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Justin Lucas Fohgetdatshit wrote: "Justin wrote: "I'm not going to go through the effort of making a complete literary analysis of his work. It's simply too time consuming, I gain nothing from it, and you've already made it clear t..."

Which is a completely legitimate way to feel. And if you or OP or anyone else presented their opinion in this manner - eloquently, succinctly, rationally - rather than in a tone of smugness, condescension, and ridicule, I wouldn't have even bothered commenting. I still disagree with your disdain for Rothfuss directly; I've only ever heard stellar things about his character. I think it's more likely that those responsible for marketing his novella were unsure how to categorize it, being that it is exclusively dependent on the KKC world, but is more of a spin-off than a part of the series. I doubt they intended to confuse it with the final book of the trilogy. Or maybe they did? I don't know, but regardless, I don't think Pat was in any way responsible for the confusion. I've never purchased a book without reading at least the first few pages, and he explicitly states what readers can expect to get. So despite whatever other information may have been relayed about the book, it itself divulges the truth immediately. And I think that's more than enough.

I think you take your attack on Rothfuss' character too far. And I think you're too smart, or at least well read and written, to have your opinions glossed over because you choose to attack your audience's character, whether tongue-in-cheek or not, whether offense intended or not. As a future reference, stating you're not trying to be offensive, and then twisting the context of one's words to intentionally be offensive, is a good way to make sure your voice isn't heard. No one likes to be intellectually condescended to. Although I suppose I wasn't trying hard to portend a neutral tone, myself, was I?


idcboobs Justin wrote: "I'm not going to go through the effort of making a complete literary analysis of his work. It's simply too time consuming, I gain nothing from it, and you've already made it clear there's literall..."

i'm sorry but that's bullshit justin, like i said you won't explain it because you can't. All your arguments end with "because i said so" and then you act like this is somehow below your time and effort. You're simply lying, there is no way to defend an author that has, with complete 100% evidence and fact, lied several times about his books. There's no way you can explain this to change this fact, you say that you can't change our minds because we're so set into this mind set; however the truth is you can't change our minds because we know the truth and you can't see it.

Think outside the box for once Justin, think about everything we've said about the author, how we've backed it up time and time again, put aside your bias and actually look at what Rothfuss is saying and doing. It's clear to me that he's scamming people because i've been here from the beginning, you just need a bit more time.


People have read my review and instantly changed their minds about the author because i explain every detail of evidence against him, they have no choice to change their mind on him because they don't want to be that loyal fanboy that refuses to see logic. Simply look at it from our perspective and you'll see that we're correct.


Justin Lucas Idcboobs wrote: "Justin wrote: "I'm not going to go through the effort of making a complete literary analysis of his work. It's simply too time consuming, I gain nothing from it, and you've already made it clear t..."

Fohgetdatshit seemed rational and intelligent enough to engage in real conversation with, and so that's who I was addressing, and I feel we've both satisfactorily made our points and can, overall, agree to disagree. You, however, I'm still pretending are speechless.


idcboobs Justin wrote: "Idcboobs wrote: "Justin wrote: "I'm not going to go through the effort of making a complete literary analysis of his work. It's simply too time consuming, I gain nothing from it, and you've alread..."

I really am, you say you're having a constructive argument or a real conversation but while fohgetdatshit brings up different points you still say the exact same thing while implying these books are somehow above our reading level.

Essentially i'm saying you have said nothing, all your points imply that you don't know how to debate a topic while you pretend you've brought up anything that actually tells us we're wrong. I mean you can fool yourself that you're having an intelligent discussion if you'd like but in case you're actually trying to prove to me that you don't know what a real argument is then everything you've said is wrong.

Funniest thing is you still have that condescending tone as if you've brought anything important to this discussion other than that massive post on the other page summarized by "you guys are really mean :(". I'm not gonna speak for fohgetdatshit but he did say i explained his thoughts fairly well so i'd say that would mean you are ignoring all of his points. Yet you say you're having a real conversation?

You aren't having a conversation with anyone if you're constantly ignoring the main points and addressing absolutely nothing. You've ignored everything anyone in this thread has said that shows you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to this topic yet you act like you've gotten some sort of point across.

I'll ask you again, please post some sort of detail or example, maybe some evidence at all that what you say has any merit. I've asked three times now and if you ignore again i can only assume you have no idea what you're talking about and are only here to make excuses for an author who doesn't even bother making excuses for his fans.


Justin Lucas Idcboobs wrote: "Justin wrote: "Idcboobs wrote: "Justin wrote: "I'm not going to go through the effort of making a complete literary analysis of his work. It's simply too time consuming, I gain nothing from it, an..."

Nope, I really just don't care that much and think you're a tool.


idcboobs Justin wrote: "Idcboobs wrote: "Justin wrote: "Idcboobs wrote: "Justin wrote: "I'm not going to go through the effort of making a complete literary analysis of his work. It's simply too time consuming, I gain no..."

thank you for confirming that you have no idea what you're talking about.


Faith Lackey Fohgetdatshit wrote: "Marc - I liked the first Eragon, then they got steadily worse until it was obvious the first book was the best we were going to get.

I'm just saying, Rothfuss' work is progressively getting wors..."


Since when have writers gone from being artists who share their talent with the world to being people who churn out books as a job? Sure writing is work, but you are literally comparing them to people who change oil... "If you say 10 minute oil change, I expect 10 minutes." Think of all the artists and writers who have shaped their art for art's sake (i.e. Pablo Picasso, Oscar Wilder, etc), all the free-thinking idealists who first inspired you... Would you really prefer they become less than what they are? For someone who claims that the publishing companies have gotten out of hand, you really want writers like Rothfuss to spit out their work in a timely and industrious fashion. I suppose writing is no longer an art form, just a means for appeasing the masses. Thank you for opening my eyes...


idcboobs Faith wrote: "Fohgetdatshit wrote: "Marc - I liked the first Eragon, then they got steadily worse until it was obvious the first book was the best we were going to get.

I'm just saying, Rothfuss' work is prog..."


I read that first sentence and holy shit how are you so wrong? Everything done for money is a job, art is a job. Artists accommodate themselves by selling their art for money. It is a job, where would you get this notion that writing is not a job?

Seriously answer me, tell me why you would think writing is a hobby and not a job, please answer because i need to know how your mind could possibly work


message 49: by David (last edited Dec 07, 2014 04:56AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

David You're wasting your time Faith, just like I did. Anybody trying to argue with this guy (and yes I think "Idcboobs" and "Fohgetdatshit" is possibly the same person trying to strengthen his own argument, based on join dates to the website and the fact that I replied to something Idcaboobs said and Fogetdatshit replied to me instead. Can you say sketchy as fuck?) is wasting their time.

Obviously he is very upset about his uber-important ten dollars (OMG TEN WHOLE DOLLARS!) that Pat "tricked" him out of and now he has a personal grievance that he needs to post anywhere and everywhere that people are talking about this book.

Trying to reason with him is like trying to reason with a wall. It's a total one-way street.He expects what he wants when he wants it, and how he wants it, and the world and everyone in it be damned and all their opinions are wrong if they don't align with his.

Just the fact that he repeatedly harps on the protagonist being a little girl as an inherently bad thing shows his true colors. Reality check, genius, some people read books about people who are unlike them because it opens their eyes, and some people write about people unlike them for the same reason. Literature is all about exploring the human condition and stepping outside your own tiny little shell of limited experience. Stop putting people into boxes. The moment you said you thought this basic premise (young girl with mental illness) is inherently bad as a plot idea, I was done with you, Idcaboobs (and your alter ego). Then you went on to say what you really meant. It's okay as a plot idea only if you are a little girl. Close-minded much?

You're the kind of person who probably thinks that no book written for children should also be enjoyed by adults. I was more than prepared to have a discussion about the quality of the work, but that's not what you want. You want to shit on an author's character, as if you know for SURE he ripped you off, and when people disagree you resort to personal attacks. They're blind fans. They're dumb. They need more time to realize how they've been taking advantage of. They only like this book because they're pedophiles, or gay, or in some way not "normal", etc. That's not something that fuels healthy debate.

A person like you, apparently, has neither the patience nor the sympathy to see how Pat, with his OCD struggles, might identify with a character like Auri, who has to put everything in its' proper place (like sentences or words) and how much anguish that can cause people like him (such as how he's struggling to get book three out, and how he almost broke down trying to meet book 2's deadline) and how that might be interesting to read as a kingkiller novella for some people who are not you. All you care about is that Pat LIED about how long it was going to take him to write the books when HE FIRST BROKE OUT. Wait, you're telling me he was WRONG, as a NEW author, about how long his fourteen-year-long hobby-writing project was going to take him to make into actual books? THE TRAVESTY! LET'S BURN HIM AT THE STAKE! OBVIOUSLY HE IS A MALICIOUS SCAM ARTIST AND WE NEED TO DEFAME HIM. Uhhh....no dude. Just no.

As for this book, some people liked it, weird and plot-less as it is. That doesn't make them wrong, blind, dumb, or inferior to you in any way. It just means they enjoyed a book you didn't. You presented your "evidence" and people saw it. You act like when they disagree they're choosing not to see it. They see it, believe me. They know it's taking forever for him to put out these books. But you know what? The people who defend him have seen your evidence and simply interpreted it another way. They believe that Pat, rather than being malicious and money-grubbing, simply got WAY in over his head and wasn't prepared to write to a deadline as a new author, and that while he may have had a trilogy "written" it was in a very rough first-draft that was even rougher than he remembered it being and it's just taking a long time because he may as well be writing them for the first time and the dude is an OCD perfectionist type of person. It happens. Goddamn fucking deal with it and stop crying about it like a child.


The fact of the matter is neither of us can be proven wrong or right to any degree of certainty, as all we know is what has happened and not why. You could be right, I guess. Pat could be fleecing people. I don't think you are right, but I'll entertain the fact that it's possible. Therefore we are both left with only the assumptions we choose to make based on limited evidence. You choose to make negative ones based on what you think Pat is doing, when you really have no idea what his motivations are. I choose to make positive ones, since I've actually met the dude and his blog contains some genuinely heartwarming stuff (much of it about charity, not being greedy, and how money is only important up to a point). Not to mention every other author (including Brandon Sanderson, who I believe you pointed to as a better example of literary output in your "review") seems to love the guy. Also I try not to get hung up on meaningless bullshit like a book being heavily delayed. But of course that's not acceptable to you. We're all just wrong, cause we're living in your world where you're always right. I forgot. Sorry, should I take my shoes off while I'm on your planet, sir?

You are a troll and an ass, and I suggest anyone looking to argue with him just close your browser and talk to someone else that you consider to be a rational human being. You'll be much happier for it. I'll show you all you need to see anyway. Let's play "Quote the jackass" to take a peak at the shit he's said in the defense of his "point."

"But say that..Justin......say you relate to little girls and that's why you like the book."

Do you really "crave" the "realization" of under-aged girls making soap and getting clean? Soap. Something tells me there's more to this fantastical vision of yours and this insatiable hunger......but I won't go there. Please no more of this kind of talk......"Crave".....and books about mentally challenged little girls should not even be remotely connected by a twenty something year old man....

"t sounds to me like you just like reading about mentally challenged little girls. You are an adult male and that is gross."

"Broken. I see you have a realistic self-image."


Really? You have to result to accusing someone of pedophilia-type thoughts and try your damnedest to make them feel, what, guilty for thinking a story that doesn't have a protagonist their exact age and gender is interesting? Fuck you.

No, Seriously. Fuck you. You can go to hell and fuck yourself. You're being an absolute pretentious asshole fuck-face. Your "argument" against Pat's "scam" has escalated into personal attacks, both on Pat and the people who take my view of things, so fuck it I'm gonna do it now too, because you actually deserve it, and you set the precedent for it. Fuck you. Have I said that yet? Wait, one more time (for luck). Fuck you, and the high-horse you rode in on. I hope you fall off it and break something. I would also hope for you to learn a lesson from your fall, perhaps about humility and respecting other people and their opinions, but I'm too much of a realist to believe that will ever happen.

TLDR; A very petty and pretentious troll lurks here. Be smarter than me and leave asap.


Martin Jovanovski David wrote: "You're wasting your time Faith, just like I did. Anybody trying to argue with this guy (and yes I think "Idcboobs" and "Fohgetdatshit" is possibly the same person trying to strengthen his own argum..."

I'm not going to comment this recent developments. But i'll tell you something.. I liked your post a lot more than this book.. It's well written, it discusses a plot from both sides of the story, it's was about to have a twist but didn't, it was about to end happily but didn't .. instead ended with an epilogue worthy of a book .. Very Burn After Reading style ...
Add to that, that it was unexpected and i didn't have to wait 4 years for it, it was expressed with genuine feelings, it was free and it was stand alone (it doesn't require from me to wait for sequels), and you can see why it's better than this book ..

P.S just for clarification: although i clearly express my nonfeelings for this book, i don't take Idcboobs's side in this matter.


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