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[2020] Voting for 14th Mini Poll
Nicole wrote: "Fourevver wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Fourevver wrote: "Nicole wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "...We aren't being ignorant, we are just not agreeing with you on this. I guess if someone doesn't like the prompt..."Yes, I can understand that. In the last poll I was afraid the book about a diaspora would win. I have friends who are refugees and they are full of horror stories about terrible things that happened to them in real life. I have no desire at all to read a book about that subject.
I beg to differ, Nicole. Every time certain types of prompts are suggested, I know x number of people are going to complain they hate it out of hand based on nothing but personal preference - lists and nonfiction especially come to mind. I have yet to see anyone policed for these opinions, no matter how many times they share them. There’s a handful of posters that I can think of off the top of my head for several different categories, which would seem to fit your criteria for them needing to let it rest, but I have no seen a single instance of that ever policed. If you can point to any other member being told they need to stop complaining about some opinion on a prompt, please do. I would sincerely love to be wrong on this.
Rebecca wrote: "I beg to differ, Nicole. Every time certain types of prompts are suggested, I know x number of people are going to complain they hate it out of hand based on nothing but personal preference - lists..."Perhaps I missed it in all of these posts, but I have not seen anyone tell you to stop complaining or to be quiet. I have seen a lot of people who disagree with your point of view, and who have shared their disagreement, but I have not seen a single person tell you that you need to stop talking or that you are flat out wrong.
I have seen many discussions in other posts where people have argued back and forth about the wording of a prompt or people who do, like you mention, say they're down-voting a prompt because they hate such-and-such topic or they don't like "personal" prompts or they can't vote for something because they take it too literally to make it work for them. I disagree with many of those, as well, but there's nothing to be gained from a dialogue about someone's quirks about personal prompts or how literally someone takes something.
I think you got so much to feedback because people people are honestly wanting to have a dialogue about the topic, and express why they disagree with your point of view. That doesn't meant they're wrong, and it also doesn't mean they think you are wrong. Again, I never saw anyone being ugly or hateful towards you, just people expressing differing opinions. I think people just want to be able to express and maybe even work out their feelings about this prompt.
I'm sorry if you have felt attacked or have felt policed, as you say, but from where I'm standing, I did not see anyone trying to attack or belittle or police you or your opinions. Again, this has been a long discussion thread and I have been keeping up with it while I was at work, so I apologize if I have missed something that you are referring to specifically. Just speaking for myself, I have not felt animosity towards you, or felt like you are wrong. I just feel like the prompt doesn't mean to mean what it means to you.
You yourself made several references to moving on/just using a wild card, which I interpreted (I guess incorrectly) was your polite insinuation to stop. And I think more than one mod has made it clear they disagree so there’s no point in saying anything. It is just *so* frustrating to see people bending over backwards to make the bargain priced prompt doable (which is good, I want it to be doable!) but pointing out a prompt trends to xenophobia is stonewalled. It signals the culture here is very much about only allowing “safe” debate and not considering any real issues.
I went 6 up and 2 down this time. I definitely upvoted the pronunciation prompt.
I voted for the ATY prompt after I saw how many options there are. I like the idea f carrying on the tradition of having a prompt with those letters.
I voted for the prompt that has a character in two points of their life.
I voted for the social media/technology prompt.
I voted for the sky prompt. It will be fun to narrow down my options.
I also voted for the book that brings my joy. On one hand it feels like a bit of a freebie. But I thought it would be a fun prompt to use for a nostalgia read--like a book of Peanuts cartoons or a reread of a favorite.
My downvotes for for the non-fiction book about something I see every day. It just doesn't appeal. And I downvoted the birthday prompt because the planner in me can't handle the randomness. I tried it with a few books and wound up with "of," "and," and "its" for three of my attempts.
Glad to see people are liking the social media/technology suggestion this time around! I'd brought it up once before in a previous year, but a lot of people weren't really interested in the social media angle at the time. I thought broadening it out to include any technology would make it a bit more appealing.Aside from that one, I voted for the sky prompt since I've noticed a lot of sky themed covers, a title without AT or Y because it's surprisingly tricky!, NASA, and a book about twins.
I downvoted the birthday prompt, the title based on an idiom because I had trouble finding many options, and the nonfiction book, although I could live with that one if it did get in.
Mod
That would be equivalent to saying “I don’t like non-fiction and it’s wrong if you do too”. You’re even going a step further and saying “I don’t agree with that prompt and you’re xenophobic if you do” (I.e. making judgments that could be seen as offensive).
There’s a distinct difference there. Opinions are all well and good (we welcome them). Safe, polite discussion, even debate, is fine too. But it seems like you want others to agree with your opinion, you’re not just voicing it.
I went 5 up, 3 down. I gravitate toward setting and character prompts, lean away from title and cover prompts. I'm pretty sure I'll be relying heavily on the Listopia suggestions for the winners of this list.
I think the pronunciation prompt itself is being conflated with the ideas/discussion points/pros and cons that were posted along with it. But they are two different things. The prompt is literally... any individual group member picks any author with a name they aren't sure of the correct pronunciation.
Proper pronunciation has nothing to do with race/ethnicity/language/nationality/gender or any other factor. There are names from every language, backround and nationality that are difficult to pronounce. There is absolutely nothing indicating, requiring or even suggesting the author be from any specific demographic. Proper pronunciation will differ for each individual group member based on their own background, their experiences with other cultures and languages, normal reading habits along with many other factors.
The fact that a member can *choose* to pick an author from a minority group with a name that they don't know how to pronounce has nothing to do with the prompt itself. That is an individual choice completely beyond the parameters of the prompt. Just because one member chooses an author because they don't know how to pronounce the name doesn't mean that is the case for every other member.
I don't believe people disagreeing with you is indicative of a culture of "safe" debate, or one that disregards issues as not relevant or present as you seem to be suggesting.
Just to clarify - when I say there are names names from every language/background/nationality that are difficult to pronounce, I meant difficult for people native to those languages/backgrounds/nationalities, not just people from a different background.
I voted for “social media” because I want to read Because Internet: Understanding the New Rules of Language. If it wasnt for that book, I probably would’ve up-voted something else.
Peter wrote: "I think the pronunciation prompt itself is being conflated with the ideas/discussion points/pros and cons that were posted along with it. But they are two different things. The prompt is literall..."
Well said, Peter. I value hearing the opinions of the other ATY participants. Sometimes their opinions coincide with mine, sometimes they don't. On occasion their thoughts make me reconsider a prompt that I had overlooked. That said, we each bring our own reading preferences to the voting so we should expect different opinions. However, disagreement, on my part, is not meant as judgement and I don't expect my opinions to change anyone else's.
One thing I thought of when I was voting - the topic about reading a book prompted by something you read in 2019 doesn't have to be a book from the 2019 challenge. In fact, it doesn't even need to be a book - it could be a newspaper article, magazine, or something you read online that sparked interest in something or about someone that people may want to read a book about next year.
Mod
Great point Peter! I already know what I plan on reading based on the book I’m reading now! I really hope this one goes through! This is a great one for planners. 😀
Rachel - I’m glad you added the technology wording! I recently saw someone talking about The Door Into Summer by Robert Heinlein which I want to fit in next year! Social media/ Technology is a definite Yes for me!
Peter, yes! I definitely had that kind of thing in mind. A KIS option would widen the inspiration to something you watched or heard (podcast, etc.)
I think Rebecca makes a really good point in reminding us that behaviors & actions from members of dominant and therefore privileged group can definitely be meant with no harm but still have harmful consequences & effects. It's something I'm trying to be more cognizant of all the time, and something that deserves highlighting. We are all just here for fun to discuss a shared leisure activity, but it's always important to be aware of how our words and actions can be taken and recognize opportunities for improvement. I also think it's especially important when we're having dialogue electronically and are subject to the limitations of this media that we seek to give each other the benefit of the doubt in our discussions.
I ended up voting 4/4 for this poll. I'll be okay with however the results turn out. (The only one I really don't want is the 1st book page number. I'm planning on reading a fantasy book that has a ton of words that do not exist outside of that series. I'm not interested in jumping ahead in the book just to see what word it is. I don't like jumping ahead even just to find some random word. I also have planned my book to be my first book for a really long time.)I did not vote either way for the name pronunciation task. I felt there were too many strings attached to it and the discussion feels too push for it. Even though I think I have a fairly straight forward first name, it is frequently mispronounced. Names are personal. Some people are bothered by them being mispronounced others are not.
I only used five votes this time around - 3 up and 2 down. Most of the suggestions I didn't feel strongly about either way. If they get in fine; if not that's fine too. I suspect I'm in the minority. More often than not I don't use all 8 votes.
I think this would be a helpful read for many people. It specifically say white supremacy, but I think it is relevant to any imbalance of power and privilege. https://www.showingupforracialjustice...But I want to draw particular attention to this section:
Fear of Open Conflict
-people in power are scared of conflict and try to ignore it or run from it
-when someone raises an issue that causes discomfort, the response is to blame the person for raising the issue rather than to look at the issue which is actually causing the problem
-emphasis on being polite
-equating the raising of difficult issues with being impolite, rude, or out of line
Antidotes: role play ways to handle conflict before conflict happens; distinguish between being polite and raising hard issues; don't require those who raise hard issues to raise them in acceptable ways, especially if you are using the ways in which issues are raised as an excuse not to address the issues being raised
I'm not sure if anyone else is having this problem, but the voting link in message 1 is not working for me :(
Avery wrote: "I'm not sure if anyone else is having this problem, but the voting link in message 1 is not working for me :("I voted yesterday so haven't tried it recently but the link was working fine for me then.
Have you tried opening the link in a different browser?
Have you tried clearing your browsers cache?
Maybe (& hopefully!) one of those two things will resolve your issue? :)
Mod
Avery wrote: "I'm not sure if anyone else is having this problem, but the voting link in message 1 is not working for me :("Not working for me either.
Mod
This is slightly specific but I have a close friend who is from Puerto Rico. She is extremely sensitive about people mispronouncing her name, especially when she feels like they aren’t putting effort into correctly pronouncing it. I thought of her when people were talking about sensitivity regarding names.
But at the same time, I think she would be happy if people admitted they didn’t know how to pronounce her name and asked her how to say it. That’s way better than moving forward in ignorance.
I give that example to hopefully exemplify that I’ve been thinking about the issue that you raised. But genuinely thinking about it doesn’t mean that I have to agree in the end. I do think there’s plenty of ways that the prompt could be xenophobic. But I just don’t think it is in the way it’s currently written. Especially since it doesn’t require that people pick certain ethnicities.
Mod
Laura wrote: "The link is working for me now. Hopefully the issue is resolved :)"Ah yes it worked! I just voted 8 prompts in the top for the first time ever! There weren't any I really disliked, except for one, so I just decided to use all 8 to upvote because YOLO.
I really like prompts that relate to how I feel about a book, for example the brings you joy prompt, or the prompt based on something you read in 2019. I also like unique prompts I haven't seen before, so I voted for something you see on a regular basis, and the name pronunciation prompts. Then I also voted for the sky cover, bargain price, and character in two different ages prompts because I have a ton of books that would work for those. Finally I voted for the NASA Mission to get more 2020 related prompts on the list :)
For the prompt "13. A nonfiction book about something you see on a regular basis", this link may be helpful: https://www.goodreads.com/series/74667
Jillian wrote: "I ended up voting 4/4 for this poll. I'll be okay with however the results turn out. (The only one I really don't want is the 1st book page number. I'm planning on reading a fantasy book that has a..."This is a great example of how different we all are as readers. I can't imagine having settled on a book I want to read to start the 2020 challenge. If it's something I really want to read, I can't wait 3 1/2 months to read it... and yet the planners of the group have books slotted for many of the prompts. Love the diversity in approaches!
Mod
Edie wrote: "This is a great example of how different we all are as readers. I can't imagine having settled on a book I want to read to start the 2020 challenge. If it's something I really want to read, I can't wait 3 1/2 months to read it... and yet the planners of the group have books slotted for many of the prompts. Love the diversity in approaches!"I can only read so many books in a year so some books just have to be pushed back to the next year. Not only do I plan my reading for the entire year, I even go so far as to plan my reading by month! So, yes, I have a good idea what I will be reading in December 2020. (Ridiculous, I know, but I'm a super planner and it works for me.) .
It's funny because I'm both a planner AND a mood reader. So, planning my reading out by year and month would completely stifle the fun out of it for me, because I don't know what I'll feel like reading next week/month/year, etc. On the other hand, I love the process of looking through possibilities for prompts and matching books that will work, so I do also know my top options for most of the prompts selected so far. (I also know those might change if I decide I really want to read some of those before the end of year... But if I only have one option for a hard prompt, I will TRY to save it.)
I love planning but hate sticking to the plan!
I also love planning, but I have long ago stopped trying to stick to my plans. This applies not only to reading challenges :)
I'm definitely a planner. I try to leave myself with multiple option for each prompt, but because I have to rely on the library for a lot of my books, I plan like it's my job.
Same, I love planning but just about never stick to the plan!
I love planning, but as I think it was Jillian said, a surefire way for me not to read a book is to put it on a plan. Emily ... oof, Gilead. Good luck with that.
Mod
Edie wrote: ".This is a great example of how different we all are as readers. I can't imagine having settled on a book I want to read to start the 2020 challenge. If it's something I really want to read, I can't wait 3 1/2 months to read it... and yet the planners of the group have books slotted for many of the prompts. Love the diversity in approaches!
"
The main reason is that I have over extended myself in joining groups and challenges. I’m pushing myself to wrap up some challenges that I’ve been working on for several years. I’m using my book as a reward for finishing and not signing up for so many more challenges. Plus, my book is the only one I own that fit the emotion title prompt.
As Jody, remembered correctly if I put a book down on a list to read is a sure way of not reading it. I only had one book set for this challenge and it was the last prompt I completed even though it was a short book that I wanted to read and already owned. Reading that book first guarantees it will get read.
Ha-ha Jody!😂 That is exactly me. I’m going to try to do better in 2020. I bought several classics this year and last and am determined to read them and fit them into either the 2019 or 2020 challenge! I think I will go through the 2020 group worksheet and bold & enlarge just 1 book per prompt and make those books my priority.
I make a list of options for each prompt before voting so I know how I want to place my votes. However, I’ve found out this year that mood reading is a better option for me so if I read something that wasn’t on the list I will slot it in. That takes a lot of the pressure off and I’m hoping to actually complete it this year.
Jackie wrote: "For the prompt "13. A nonfiction book about something you see on a regular basis", this link may be helpful: https://www.goodreads.com/series/74667"This is awesome, I had no idea this series existed!
Here's a list I found of microhistories that look neat:
https://bookriot.com/2018/11/14/must-...
I think there's a lot of flexibility with this one, though, if you don't like microhistories. There's anything to do with the weather, city planning, social issues. Even astronomy (though I suppose the Maximilian Hell prompt has astronomy covered!).
Marin wrote: "Jackie wrote: "For the prompt "13. A nonfiction book about something you see on a regular basis", this link may be helpful: https://www.goodreads.com/series/74667"This is awesome, I had no idea t..."
Thanks Marin -- I love this list.
Jackie wrote: "For the prompt "13. A nonfiction book about something you see on a regular basis", this link may be helpful: https://www.goodreads.com/series/74667"Moonshine: A Global History is going on my 'to read ' list. There is even one about eggs, which I hope will answer the question about who first decided that eggs might be good to eat and was willing to try them.
I'm OK with the re-wording on my $1 prompt. I got the idea while shopping at a 99-cent or Dollar Tree store and saw that they actually sell books. Plus at my library they put out old books on a rack for a quarter. So you can start a nice personal library for little cash. A dollar is .8 British pounds, or .9 euro, or $1.32 for Canadians.
Jette, I wonder that same thing about who decided that eggs mixed into things makes delicious baked goods! Seems like such a risky first step.
Around the Year in 52 Books
Books mentioned in this topic
Gilead (other topics)The Gifted School (other topics)
Because Internet: Understanding the New Rules of Language (other topics)
An Absolutely Remarkable Thing (other topics)
Skin Deep (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Riley Sager (other topics)Shobha Rao (other topics)
I think this is the heart of the issue, Rebecca. You’ve cited lots of examples of people (predominantly people of colour) who have experienced hurtful, discriminatory or insensitive treatment because of their name. That is something which should not happen and yet it’s a daily experience for many people.
However, that some people experience such treatment does not mean that it is problematic for a person to acknowledge that there are some names which they do not know how to pronounce and to choose a book for a reading challenge on that basis.