[2020] Voting for 14th Mini Poll

[MissLemon]

Laura wrote: "I think the USD1 prompt is the type of prompt that I would be fine with re-wording it as a moderator.

If people have an idea for how to make it more inclusive, then let us know. I’m not sure of a..."

I'm all for keeping costs down, I try not to spend more than £3 on a book.

How about "A book that cost you one or less of your currency units ( eg 1USD, 1 Euro, 1 GBP)"

I would be keen to keep in the 'cost you' part as it would then be possible to choose a book you had been given as a gift, or won.

[Peter]

Anabell wrote: "Peter wrote: "I sort of think an audio book is actually a great choice for this prompt because I can pick a book that I'm unsure on the pronunciation of the author's name, and be confident that in ..."

Actually, I've heard of narrators mispronouncing character names sometimes too. And I've seen a clip of Benedict Cumberbatch talking about trying to pronounce penguins during the documentary and it's hilarious! I think he calls them "penwings".

[Ellie]

I see someone's already shared the link to NASA mission names, thanks. Just a reminder that a lot of them are connected to Greek mythology so it could work for a retelling.

For author names you could use Clementine, Dawn, James, Jason, Juno, Lucy, Sofia, Swift, Tess.

You could also read about, pioneers, polar regions, twins, gold... as well as the more obvious space connections.

[Sophie]

Bryony wrote: "Or you could tie it to the cost of something - like a book that cost you less than a cup of coffee, or a book that cost less than a daily newspaper? "

Pam wrote: "For #15, a suggestion for rewording- a Book you acquired at a bargain price. There may be people that don’t buy or have access to $1 books! If I do, it’s from the Dollar Tree or the library but tha..."

I like both of these reformulations!

[Ellie]

Carolyn wrote: "How about "A book that cost you one or less of your currency units ( eg 1USD, 1 Euro, 1 GBP)".."

In some countries, one unit of currency will not buy you a book. eg. one Japanese Yen is less than a penny.

[Jody]

I like the bargain price rewording, given the differences in currencies (and what constitutes a bargain) worldwide.

[Rebecca]

Laura wrote: "Those are pros and cons that the member suggested in order to aid people in discussing and thinking about the prompt for voting. It definitely isn’t actually stated in the prompt anywhere, as you c..."

This is literally what I'm doing? I am discussing why those pros and cons for the prompt make me uncomfortable to the point I will downvote it?

I want this list to be more diverse, but this prompt isn't the way to do it. It's like the discrimination prompt suggested awhile ago - would that have brought diversity? Yes. Would it have been harmful in only allowing it if there was suffering involved? Also yes.

And Stacey, the issue of literary canon is 100% a race issue. Here a few links to articles discussing this.
https://smallstrokesbigoaks.com/2013/...
https://harvardpolitics.com/culture/t...
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi... (author is POC)

[Jill]

Ellie wrote: "I hope the social media/tech one gets in. It's such a huge part of our lives, it makes sense that it should be incorporated into stories. I especially like ones with Black Mirror vibes.

Some I've ..."

Thanks for the links. Very helpful

[Fourevver]

Rebecca wrote: "I'm pretty uncomfortable with the name pronunciation prompt. I agree the list is in desperate need of any kind of diversity, but it feels very exoticizing to frame it in this way. It feels like the..."

Rachel wrote: "Reposting this from the suggestion thread, in case people are looking for ideas:

I am totally open to adjusting the wording, but my idea was for a book where the social media (blogs/vlogs, podcast..."

It also works the other way round. I have a friend who is originally from Somalia and she told me that when she first came here (the Netherlands), she had difficulty pronouncing all the Dutch names. And yes, she is a POC and yes, most Dutch people are white.

[The Chapter Conundrum (Stacey)]

Rebecca I’m not saying that the literary canon being predominantly white is not an issue in general or a race issue, I’m saying I don’t think it’s an issue that’s specific to this prompt because this prompt would likely tend to discourage reading those authors anyways since they are celebrated through many ethnicities and people often know how to pronounce their names.

I still don’t understand why you have an issue with my possible pros/cons unless you are interpreting my use of ethnicity to mean race? OR unless you somehow have gotten the idea that I want to discourage people from learning the correct pronunciation after the fact. (Both of which I have already explained at length are not the case.)

I’m sorry you feel the need to downvote this prompt because I brought up some possible discussion points surrounding it.

[Fourevver]

Here is the list of books I posted in the suggestion thread for the prompt

A book with a title that doesn't contain the letters A, T and Y

Kindred
Room
Circe
Homegoing
Spinning Silver
Rivers of London
Bombproof
Lockdown
Clockwise
Bruno, Chief of Police
Jumper
Widdershins
Gone Girl
Gone
Legend
Sphere
Recursion
Hollow World
George
Beloved
Robinson Crusoe
How I Live Now
Sleeping Murder
Origin
Of Mice and Men
Scoop
Life of Pi
Wonder
Pinocchio

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[Rebecca]

Even if you hadn’t explicitly linked them yourself, your prompt and the literary canon being almost all white are related. This is exactly why it feels exoticising. With no context outside of being a native English speaker, Dostoevsky would be too difficult for me and I would feel a little more confident guessing at something like Achebe. In reality it’s the exact opposite. Let’s say both are objectively difficult for native English speakers, but it’s getting into exoticising territory when we acknowledge the prompt would essentially disallow a “harder” name like Dostoevsky and highlight how “””unique””” Achebe is.

[The Chapter Conundrum (Stacey)]

Rebecca wrote: "Even if you hadn’t explicitly linked them yourself, your prompt and the literary canon being almost all white are related. This is exactly why it feels exoticising. With no context outside of being..."

The prompt would absolutely not disallow the name Dostoevsky if you don't know how to pronounce it and I'm not sure why you're getting that idea? As stated this is an individual type of prompt and not everyone will agree on whether any one name is "pronounceable" in general or not. It's up to the individual to decide.

I said it might be more of a challenge to find a classic to fit this prompt, not that it would be impossible.

Also, even if someone who is a native english speaker and white was to pick a book by Dostoevsky that could still be considered ethnically diverse (although not racially diverse) to them personally.

I don't understand why, in general, it's harmful to encourage this form of diversity as well as racial diversity.

[Anastasia]

Books with idioms
We All Fall Down
Barking Up the Wrong Tree: The Surprising Science Behind Why Everything You Know About Success Is (Mostly) Wrong
Catch-22
Skin Deep
No Time for Goodbye
Too Close For Comfort: Canada's Future Within Fortress North America
I found several books with these idioms as titles. You could always try typing in your favourite saying to see what pops up.

[Emily, Conterminous Mod]

For the social media one, I automatically thought of An Absolutely Remarkable Thing by Hank Green -- social media plays a huge role in the plot. I'm not voting for it (because I ran out of votes!) but I think it could be interesting if it got in.

[Avery]

Jody wrote: "I like the bargain price rewording, given the differences in currencies (and what constitutes a bargain) worldwide."

For what it's worth, I seconded this prompt and agree with changing the wording to "bargain price." Hopefully we can make this change soon so that more people have time to consider it, since I've seen some comments about how it's too U.S. centric!

[Pam]

I will downvote, as worded, the prompt using your age and birthdate to find a word. I appreciate the originality but it’s too restrictive. You might find a reasonable word but you might not! With the book I’m reading, my word was “filming”. I found nothing for that word. There are lots of words, including conjugated verbs, proper nouns, expressions like “Uh-huh”, obscure or archaic words, made-up words (like in SF & F), and curse words, for example, that are not going to work. If it was worded where you could use any book you read or own or skip to a word that works (either next page, or line, or word), I might vote for it. I hate to be super literal but this is such a specific prompt.

[Nadine in NY]

On the pronunciation issue, people have been mispronouncing my name my whole life (not all people, but some people), so I didn’t see this prompt as “exoticizing” anything. I’m not exotic (at least, not to me)! I’ve passed this legacy on to my children and accidentally gave my second child a hard-to-pronounce name, plus their (Italian) last name often trips people up.

I’ve been mispronouncing Rick Riordan and J.K. Rowling and they are both popular mainstream authors (and I think they are both white), so anything goes here, even super popular authors. Michael Crichton was another good example.

The prompt is to choose an author, so I don’t see how it excludes audiobooks, since by the time you’re listening, you’ve already chosen it.

[The Chapter Conundrum (Stacey)]

Nadine, I don’t think it will exclude audiobooks for the average person doing the challenge, the only reason I think it could possibly exclude audiobooks for some is if someone wants to take the prompt super literally with the fact that “you’re” is in the present tense. So some might think that the prompt implies not knowing the pronunciation at the time of reading the book and audiobooks tend to say the authors name at the beginning so you would know while reading the book.

Personally, I think it’s totally okay to know at the time of reading as long as you didn’t know when you selected the book and I think it's totally cool if someone wants to bend the prompt slightly and pick an author that at some point or another they didn't know how to pronounce. Personally, I’ll treat it as -I didn't know the pronunciation at the time of selecting the book- if it passes. I just have an inkling that not everyone will think that way though!

[°~Amy~°]

I think my favorites of the moment are NASA, title that doesn't contain A, T or Y, social media/tech, a book that brings you joy.

While I love the concept of the first one and do something similar for readathons, I don't think a year long challenge is the right place for it. And I can guarantee I will have sold or given away the first book of the year by the time I remember I am supposed to use it for this prompt. I would love to see it come up in a future readathon game though!

There aren't any prompts that I particularly dislike this round. Maybe I won't downvote anything, which feels very weird actually!

[Avery]

I want to highlight a few other prompts that I really like since the discussion seems to be focusing on issues with 2-3 prompts only. I think currently I'm only down-voting one prompt also which does feel weird, Amy!

I love the prompt about "A book that you are prompted to read because of something you read in 2019." I love that it enables me to expand my knowledge or reading about something I read in 2019, or a new author I discovered! I like that it could be about series too!

I also like "A nonfiction book about something you see on a regular basis" because it's a unique idea. It could be about something related to your line of work, or current issues. It does throw me off that it must be a non-fiction book though. I wish fiction counted so I could include books that are set in my city/country, or where the characters have my profession or hobbies.

Still torn about the NASA Mission prompt because I love it's connection to 2020, but hesitant since it wasn't a close call in the other poll it was in.

[Nadine in NY]

I’m torn about NASA missions too. I love the idea, but when I look at the list of mission names, they don’t inspire me. I’m still thinking about it.

[Ellie]

Avery wrote: "Still torn about the NASA Mission prompt because I love it's connection to 2020, but hesitant since it has been in so many polls already and not made it..."

It's only been in one other poll, however it was used in a readathon team challenge if that's what you mean? I felt it suffered a bit from me suggesting it just after that readathon (it was included because I pre-discussed it in the wild discussion and it got picked up from there). I have been waiting to resubmit it so I'm pretty sure no one else has.

[Jette]

A couple of thoughts on the prompts:
I appreciate the link to the NASA Mission names. It changed my mind about how I thought about it.

I don't understand all the fuss about the 'name you don't know how to pronounce". My married name is one of those that people struggle with. The "tph" is just too much for some. In fact, my kindergarten students used to call me Ms. Sumthin. My maiden name was Pate and even that was was wrongly pronounced "pa Tay". I guess I just don't read beyond the surface of the prompts.

Finally, for the prompt "a book less than $1.00", I would probably use a Prime First Reads book. I also found a Kindle collection of HG Well for $0.99 that I could count.

[Jen]

How do you know if a book brings you joy unless you have already read it? Why reread when there are so many books still to read?

Would a library book count for less than 1USD? Or a gift even though someone else paid more? Even the op shops don't sell books that cheap here.

[°~Amy~°]

Jen wrote: "How do you know if a book brings you joy unless you have already read it? Why reread when there are so many books still to read?

Would a library book count for less than 1USD? Or a gift even thou..."

In the suggestion thread I mentioned a few ways that a book might bring you joy. A lot of people do like rereading old favorites so there is that but you might also really love the cover, you might love the topic or the genre, it might be a book written by a favorite author, or perhaps it's a book that you heard about on youtube that you are highly anticipating reading, maybe your best friend raved about a book and recommended it to you so you get excited when you think about reading it? There are a lot of ways to find joy in a book before reading it. :-)

[Avery]

Jen wrote: "How do you know if a book brings you joy unless you have already read it? Why reread when there are so many books still to read?"

In addition to the great examples Amy came up with, what about a book that someone gave you as a gift? I love getting gifts or mail and that's joyful for me regardless if I like the actual gift or not.

Maybe it's a book about something you think is underrepresented in the book industry. I could see how joyful that would be if you realized that said topic is finally being represented.

I'm also that nerdy person that loves when covers are beautiful and love books that look good on my shelf. Maybe the author's name is Joy, or the word Joy is in the title. How about any Christmas book, as in I feel like the word "joy" is often associated with Christmas!

[Emily, Conterminous Mod]

My only downside to the "prompted by something you read in 2019" is that we already have "a book by an author you read in 2018 or 2019", which.... I know they are two different prompts, but I would probably use them in the same way -- a connection by author.

[Nicole]

I like the wording changed of the $1.00 prompt to a "book you acquired at a bargain price," but I still think it needs a little tweaking. As many other people have mentioned/asked, what about library books or gifts or book exchanges? From what I understood from the person who suggested it (please correct me if I'm wrong), those books can be included, but having the words "bargain price" makes it seem like it has to be purchased.

Also, to go back to the name you're not sure to pronounce, I love the prompt. I often get caught up by racial or homophobic or bigotted wording, and it makes my blood boil, but I see nothing wrong with this prompt. There is nothing about it that makes any kind of racial or ethnic judgement. My maiden name was Brawner - my ancestors were from England, and have now lived in the US for generations, and we're all white, but everyone from teachers to grocery store checkers to bosses had to ask how to pronounce it: Bran-ner? Brawn-eer? Brown-ner? Brawn-er? It was the last one, and that seems straightforward to me, but that was almost never the first guess that I heard out of people's mouths. Along with many others who have mentioned author's names, I also mispronounced Rowling and Crichton and Riordan and Chabon and Ayn and Groening and Picoult... Every single one of those people is a popular, white author. Now, yes, there are plenty of authors who are POC whose names I've also mispronounced, but encouraging people to pick only POC for this prompt is not the point at all. If you decide to try to make your reading more diverse, and that's the direction you go, awesome! If you saw that Picoult is not pronounced the way it looks, and you don't want to find out the proper pronunciation until you've read a book by her for the challenge next year, go for it!

I also love the first suggestion about using your DOB to pick a word and then picking a book with that word in the title. I think it sounds like lots of fun! I completely understand that for the pre-planners, that makes it difficult. However, if you're pre-planning, and you pick the book you're going to read first, go ahead and open the book to the correct page & find your word. Then you can plan ahead for the rest of the challenge. Also, I know a lot of people take the prompts super literally, so if you find a word like Flumbergersson (hilariously mentioned on the suggestions post), you're kinda stuck. I just can't take my life that seriously. I would do the +/- 1 word that someone else had mentioned, and see if I could work with one of the words on either side of the specified word. Nothing against the literalists, but I'm okay with a little slide every now & then.

Over all, I love the suggestions. I have 7 up-votes and only 1 down-vote. Ready to get my vote on! :)

[Pam]

Emily - I took that prompt as not necessarily being books by the same author but a similar subject, setting, experience or wanting to expand knowledge in an area. I like this prompt because there are subjects I want to explore more because of books (fiction & non-fiction) I read this year. There are also novels I want to read due to their connection to my non-fiction reads.

[Emily, Conterminous Mod]

Pam, I know it could be interpreted differently for sure. I think that the current prompt in the list is a subset of what you could use for the current suggested prompt... but the overlap is a bit more than what I would want. I'm not downvoting it because I have plenty I could read, but I'm not upvoting it for that reason.

[Nadine in NY]

I just looked through my Challenge reads for this year, and to my surprise there are five books that are parts of series I’d like to continue, so that category will get my last unassigned vote.

That’s six up votes and two down votes from me, hopefully at least one of my choices wins :-)

I’m out of votes so I’m not voting for NASA, but if it wins, I’ll read “O, Pioneers!”

[Eujean2]

In answer to a book that brings you joy, for me I have series that I love and I am joyful about a new book in the series, even before I have read it.

Plus, I am a super planner, but I often move my books around once the year starts. Many times I have read a book and then realized it fit a different prompt. So having the flexibility to move something into the joyful prompt might be nice.

[Eujean2]

I enjoy the utter randomness of the birthday prompt. I have tried a dozen books near me and gotten lots of words that would work (came, are, at, he, is, in, of, black, be, ready, would) One of the books I checked had "references & recommended reading" on my age page. So I would have to make some choices about how I read a url. (Side note: if this prompt wins, I will make sure to read a fiction book first.) :-)

It may be too late for a wording change, but if it included the first 3 books you read in the year, I think it would allow for a little more wiggle room without changing the intent of the prompt.

[Johanna]

Bryony wrote: "I agree about the USD prompt. We could add something like “or a comparable amount in your currency”? I don’t think it works to say an equivalent amount because that will fluctuate depending on exch..."

I like the wording of "less than" something. This gives you a little more wiggle room and accounts for changes in different currencies. And you don't have to go to the dollar store for a 99 cent book. You can get great deals at used book stores, tag sales, or find an e-book for 99 cents (like on Book Bub).

[Raquel (Silver Valkyrie Reads)]

Finally jumping into the conversation after being too sick to sit at my computer yesterday!

I think the birthday/word prompt is a lot of fun, and reminiscent of the 'the first sentence on page 30 of the book nearest you describes your life' type memes, which I always enjoy. On the other hand, I'm enough of a literalist to be a little uncomfortable with being locked into a certain word... Actually, though, I could look up the word *before* I read the book and make sure I the first one I read has a word I like for this prompt. ;-) That's probably enough of a 'cheat' that I'll up vote it.

Whatever the final wording of the bargain book prompt I have so many options that it's basically a freebie prompt for me, but I might vote for it anyway because it's a good way to fit in more of those free e-books I've picked up.

Several others I like (character at two points of life, sky cover, book that brings you joy) and none I dislike at first glance, but will have to do some research to see if I like my options for some of them.

[Rebecca]

Here is yet another article on the subject - mini interviews with many people with “unique” names. Many of them discuss how the scrutiny of their name is uncomfortable and can lead to even more othering, through such things as the dreaded question “But where are you [really] from?” Someone even makes note the scrutiny makes them feel like an “exotic zoo animal.” The few non-POC discuss how having a “difficult” name can be frustrating but is still a very different experience given all their other privilege(s).

https://www.refinery29.com/amp/en-us/...

And again, I don’t like how this prompt centers the reader’s ignorance over actually looking to understand someone’s lived experience.

[°~Amy~°]

Rebecca wrote: "Here is yet another article on the subject - mini interviews with many people with “unique” names. Many of them discuss how the scrutiny of their name is uncomfortable and can lead to even more oth..."

What I am reading there is an article saying that it is wrong to Americanize names to make them more pronounceable.....and we have all stated that we in no way think ANYONE POC or otherwise should change their name. We aren't being ignorant, we are just not agreeing with you on this. I guess if someone doesn't like the prompt for whatever reason, they can just downvote it and use a wildcard for the prompt if it gets through?

[Nicole]

°~Amy~° wrote: "...We aren't being ignorant, we are just not agreeing with you on this. I guess if someone doesn't like the prompt for whatever reason, they can just downvote it and use a wildcard for the prompt if it gets through?"

That's what I was just getting ready to respond & say. If someone has a strong objection to a prompt that gets into the final challenge, use your wild card and don't do that prompt. We're not all going to agree, and that's okay. We all have the right to our own opinions and our own interpretations of the prompts.

I'm moving on, because I know how the suggesting party intended her prompt to be interpreted (based on her stating it clearly many times), and that is how I will be interpreting it, as well. If it doesn't make it into the challenge, I will absolutely be adding it to my rejects challenge.

[Fourevver]

Nicole wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "...We aren't being ignorant, we are just not agreeing with you on this. I guess if someone doesn't like the prompt for whatever reason, they can just downvote it and use a wildcard ..."

Sorry if I'm ignorant, but what is that wildcard that you are referring to?

[°~Amy~°]

Fourevver wrote: "Nicole wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "...We aren't being ignorant, we are just not agreeing with you on this. I guess if someone doesn't like the prompt for whatever reason, they can just downvote it and ..."

Not an ignorant question at all! Anytime we have a prompt that we don't like or that we can not find a book to fit, we can use a wildcard, that means we just use any book for that prompt. It's basically a free read for one week. Some people even use 2 or 3 wildcards for prompts they aren't excited about. Hope that helps! :-)

[Anabell]

I used a wildcard this year. By reading the book WILDCARD😜 don’t remember which prompt though. But I cracked myself up with that one... which shows the level of my humor...

[Martha]

I thought we could only use one wildcard. I would be happy to know we could use more than one. On the other hand, I've never had to use one.

[Fourevver]

°~Amy~° wrote: "Fourevver wrote: "Nicole wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "...We aren't being ignorant, we are just not agreeing with you on this. I guess if someone doesn't like the prompt for whatever reason, they can jus..."

Thank you. So actually it is a manner of speaking. If you can't do a prompt, for any reason, then you can fill the prompt with something entirely different and that is called: using a wildcard

[Johanne]

Lol Annabel, that is really clever :)

[Rebecca]

Obviously I will be down voting it, and if it gets in I will pick something else because there’s no way I can fill it in good conscience. It really bothers me to be told this is my personal issue when it’s actually problematic and I’m providing sources from the relevant people.

It’s not like I just don’t want to read a mystery because I personally dislike the genre. I’m seeing a prompt with very objectionable framing being up for debate and I’m not just going to sit quietly and ignore it.

And intent does not equal impact. I’m also aware the person who suggested it had good intentions but that doesn’t mean it can’t be harmful.

[Laura, Celestial Sphere Mod]

People use their wildcards in different ways. Some fill it with a completely random book. I, and others, select a different prompt from the “reject” list.

Technically, you have one wildcard to use (officially). But since we don’t police the individual challenges, it’s really up to you.

[Nicole]

Fourevver wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Fourevver wrote: "Nicole wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "...We aren't being ignorant, we are just not agreeing with you on this. I guess if someone doesn't like the prompt for whatever reas..."

Yes, exactly. From what I understand, the general guidelines are that you have one wildcard, and you use it only when you really need it (just absolutely can't find a book or found one, but can't afford it, etc.), or when you really hate a topic or just really don't want to read a book about that topic. I think some people use multiple wildcards if they want, but that is just up to personal preference, and how literal they want to be with the challenge.

[Nicole]

Rebecca wrote: "Obviously I will be down voting it, and if it gets in I will pick something else because there’s no way I can fill it in good conscience. It really bothers me to be told this is my personal issue w..."

I don't think anyone is telling you to sit quietly and ignore it. If you feel a strong objection to a prompt, and you feel that others should also have a strong objection, it is your right to speak up about that. I think you have done that very thoroughly, and no one has told you that your opinion is invalid or just plain wrong. However, others have also spoken up and shared their reasons that they don't agree. Again, we are all free to our own interpretations, and having read through it over & over again, I just don't see it as problematic. I understand that you vehemently disagree with that point of view, but at this point, both viewpoints have been shared numerous times, and I think it's up to the group to determine their decision by the vote.

[Martha]

Thanks for the wildcard clarification!