Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion
This topic is about
The Matrix and Philosophy
FRINGE SCIENCE
>
Could the matrix be real?
Harry wrote: "Why build it? Maybe we're just entertainment, being watched on T.V. screens by Man Who Fell To Earth type aliens. Who knows. ..."Yes, we are one of 100 TV shows on various planets...Like The Truman Show...
Unfortunately (and this is difficult news to reveal, so please don't "shoot the messenger"!), Planet Earth is no longer a highly rated TV series...The extraterrestrial TV studio execs are considering axing the series we are currently starring in: Planet Earth.
Unless, we can somehow be more entertaining...
Don't worry. They're planning the sequel: Earth 2: The Colonisation of Mars.
Harry wrote: "Don't worry. They're planning the sequel: Earth 2: The Colonisation of Mars."Oh great.
So we can have a spin-off...
We are still in demand then!
Phew.
"HAYFA wrote: "The computer would have to be bigger than the universe"If we're in the matrix, then the universe might not even exist. It might just be a 'video projection'.
Or maybe we/earth/the universe are the size of a tennis ball, in comparison to the 'real universe' on the other side of the matrix.
Harry wrote: ""If we're in the matrix, then the universe might not even exist. It might just be a 'video projection'...."Exactly.
The whole concept of this universe being a computer simulation means that the size of the universe is illusory.
Dr. Robert Lanza, M.D is basically saying the matrix is real (as per the observer effect and other modern physics experiments): https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1204...
Not totally sure about some of the connections this guy makes to prove we are living in a simulated reality, but see what you think of this video anyway...YOU ARE BORN TWICE. simulation reality. how can so many people keep this a secret for so long!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYHPG...
Find out why Lanza made TIME Magazine’s top 100 list of the "100 Most Influential People in the World" in this video and why his theories appear to explain how every person is potentially inside their own unique matrix:MINDBLOWING INFORMATION! Award-winning scientist Robert Lanza reveals the nature of our reality in his theory of Biocentrism (Coast to Coast interview) https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1220...
Nick Bostrom is an Oxford Philosopher who speaks about the simulation hypothesis a lot. Here is a link to a video by him. He also has written a few titles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnl6n...
Thanks Peter.Have you read Nick Bostrom's book Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies? Apparently it's pretty awesome.
He's been on my radar since 2007 with his book "Anthropic Bias" Which came out in the early 2000s. He seems to pick speculative topics which most fascinate me.
He's on my list to read - thanks for recommendation.
Theory claims to offer the first 'evidence' our Universe is a hologram http://www.wired.co.uk/article/our-un...Everything you see and experience in 3D, including time, could be an illusion
The Matrix and Jewish Reality (The amazing similarities between the movie Matrix and the Torah) - Rabbi Motty Berger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfr6Y...
What if we’re living in a computer simulation? https://www.theguardian.com/technolog...Virtual reality technology is making great advances, but it has also helped popularise a theory long debated by philosophers and now gaining supporters in Silicon Valley – that the outside world is itself a simulation
Here is Nick Bostrom explaining his simulation argument. He estimates that there is a one-third chance we are living in an ancestor simulation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnl6n...
For a better understanding of how the matrix works, see the book by Tomas Campbell: "My Big TOE- A trilogy unifying Philosophy, Physics and Metaphysics". Here TOE stands for Theory Of Everything. Is a long book. If in a hurry, take a look here: https://youtu.be/uEuOGCEmiTg
Harry wrote: ""HAYFA wrote: "The computer would have to be bigger than the universe, and time would tick more slowly in the program than in reality. So why even bother building it?"That's a lot of assumptions ..."
Yes the computer we have can create a virtual world that is smaller than itself in the micro chip - thus the computer being larger than a nanoverse is easy to implement - thus meeting the first condition. Time is a relative concept and we can make the being in the nanoverse believe that the time is progressing in the same pace #BlackMirror
A lot of people keep telling me about 5G and how it could be a matrix in the making...or a matrix within the matrix! I don't really understand much about 5G, but listening to this interview now:
Max Igan "The Coming 5G Roll-out & AI Will Transform Human Society By 2025!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABRLI...
A few months back, some theorist stated that the universe couldn't be a simulation because there wasn't enough computing power to model the quantum states of every particle.I disagree with that. Anyone who has played video games knows the game doesn't have to track everything in real time. It calculates and renders what is needed when it's needed. That may explain why subatomic particles have indeterminate properties before they are measured.
Wow, that's really fascinating, and scary, Jim.
I think the notion that human beings are becoming enslaved by the media, and tricked into spending most of their lives slaving away as part of an unfair and rigged system that offers them "security" instead of going out into the real world, is uncannily accurate. The Matrix just takes it a step further and turns it into a sci-fi parable. But the more powerful IT becomes, the more literal that parable will become.
Jim wrote: "A few months back, some theorist stated that the universe couldn't be a simulation because there wasn't enough computing power to model the quantum states of every particle.I disagree with that. ..."
I agree with you. We project what we believe, and therefore our perception of things is only that - a perception. It isn't the bigger picture. We can only recreate the bigger picture by relying on all beliefs and perceptions, because we are each a small unit of the whole. I touched base on it (though not in matrix terms) briefly in my book, but there is so much that goes into it, I know I am going to need to revisit it again and again in the books to come in my series. It's very interesting to ponder, but I believe it is actually real. Not in the sense the Matrix makes it out to be, but in the sense that our soul lives in a body (a vehicle) and we live our lives based on what we believe we know - if we listen to our intuition it actually gets more interesting because it will tell you more than you think you know, because the soul can tap into the energy of the universe and can actually tell you things that collective energy already knows (which is everything). A lot of people also believe this collective energy is where we can get supernatural powers from (which I also believe to be real).
A group poll is now underway asking members: Do you believe we are living in a computer simulation (aka the matrix)?Vote and have your say here:
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1...
D.M. Is this concept the same as listening to your gut? Typically when I go against my gut reaction I regret it...I don’t believe I’m psychic by any stretch of the imagination, but sometimes I get these gut feelings that are so strong. Yesterday in fact, for instance, I had to get up at 4 am to travel 3 hours by car to get to a surgery(I’m a sales rep) and what I thought was sleep deprivation kept telling me don’t go, don’t go, but I decided to do the “hard thing” and go to work....1 and half hours in to the trip, the nurse texts to say that Case is cancelled. This has happened on more occasions than I care to count with different scenarios. Thoughts?
Jovo wrote: "I think the notion that human beings are becoming enslaved by the media, and tricked into spending most of their lives slaving away as part of an unfair and rigged system that offers them "security..."This makes a lot of sense to me - the idea that the matrix grows up around us and we don't notice the changes because we're too busy living in them. I struggle with the idea of a purpose built matrix, it seems like a lot of effort for someone/something to go to just for us to trundle about, watch TV and sit in traffic.
The collective unconscious is a curious thing though, humans do seem to connect up in unexpected ways.
The matrix or brain in a vat or Descartes deceptive demon are possibilities of radical skepticism. While interesting doubts about reality ultimately are fruitless speculation. Say they are true where do you go from there.
Peter wrote: "Say they are true where do you go from there. ..."You break outta the matrix!
could you be a little more explicit on that one.
Maybe the 'matrix' is more akin to Plato's cave. Escape through illumination. That said, I do wonder about constructed reality. The Fibonacci sequence and the golden ratio seem to indicate the dominance of design over randomness.
reality is ultimately a mystery at its base and we only see its surface. What is behind it is a matter of reflection and speculation but even there we describe in metaphors of things we know.
I would grant that it is possible we are living in someone else's 'grand simulation,' the problem with the idea is that it is indistinguishable from an objective external reality, and hence not testable.It's sits alongside other untestable ideas like, "The universe was created 10 minutes ago [insert any time], and all our memories are fake." etc... there is essentially an infinite set of untestable ideas.
I ignore untestable ideas.
Graeme wrote: "I ignore untestable ideas."Probably wise, for the most part. That's why I always ignore science headlines about black holes, which can't, by definition, be detected. Pretty much all of mainstream cosmology is in that category these days. The math all works but there are no ways to prove or falsify most of it.
Tony wrote: "Maybe the 'matrix' is more akin to Plato's cave. Escape through illumination. That said, I do wonder about constructed reality. The Fibonacci sequence and the golden ratio seem to indicate the domi..."Yeah, Plato's cave is a good similar tale. Likewise the ancient stories in Hinduism.
The illusions of the mind, being prisoners of our own beliefs, etc.
Some of the mystery religions (Pythagoras etc) claim the mathematics represents 'pure truth' or dare I say reality. If this is indeed the case then the Matrix as a computer simulation, (and therefore totally dependant upon mathematically constructed logical truths) be the best fit answer. Any thoughts outside this constructed reality cannot be seen. Maybe black holes were not written into the program. They should exist but are not part of the code. We may be over taking our makers and becoming 'like God'.
Tony wrote: "Some of the mystery religions (Pythagoras etc) claim the mathematics represents 'pure truth' or dare I say reality. If this is indeed the case then the Matrix as a computer simulation, (and therefo..."Thanks Tony.
Am still to read your screenplay (beyond the first 10 pages) but definitely plan to as it appears to cover similar or interrelated subjects in its basic premise of new Gnostics in the high tech age (as least that's what I sensed it's about!)
Thanks James it does... I sort of created the main character ,Paul in the image of Wil Kane (Gary Cooper from High Noon) lost and alone in a world that has abandoned him. I think this is happening to many people now with the onslaught of manufactured reality. Gnosis is everything. : ) Have you had the chance to see Westworld ? Very very interesting!
Jim wrote: "Graeme wrote: "I ignore untestable ideas."Probably wise, for the most part. That's why I always ignore science headlines about black holes, which can't, by definition, be detected. Pretty much al..."
Hi Jim, good points, however there are attempts to detect black holes via the detection of gravity waves (a bit of a proxy...) but still reasonable.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2...
Tony wrote: "Thanks James it does... I sort of created the main character ,Paul in the image of Wil Kane (Gary Cooper from High Noon) lost and alone in a world that has abandoned him. I think this is happening ..."Have only seen brief excerpts of Westworld, Tony. But thanks for the rec.
Gnosis is everything...agreed.
Infinity is a real mind bender, mate! Kinda like Ein Sof that the Jewish mystics talk about in Kabbalah...
Ein Sof, or Ayn Sof (/eɪn sɒf/, Hebrew: אין סוף), in Kabbalah, is understood as God prior to his self-manifestation in the production of any spiritual realm, probably derived from Ibn Gabirol's term, "the Endless One" (she-en lo tiklah). Ein Sof may be translated as "unending", "(there is) no end", or infinity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ein_Sof
Really good little doco this one that gets you wondering what the likes of Elon Musk might know (or more likely, have been "told" in the circles he's mixing in) about research (including possibly classified research) that reveals indications that we are living in a computer simulation...As I still find it odd that Musk said "there is a one in a billion chance" that we are not living inside a simulation of some kind... Watch "What If the Earth Does Not Exist?" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CyN8...
4 minute scene from The Matrix: "welcome to the real world" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKwq7...
Honestly I have been pondering that movie for a while and have came up with so much stuff I could probably never write it all.Although the simplest answer maybe the truth, but what fun is that. Alice in Wonderland comes to my first as a remake of sorts, but the name Morpheus the dream god who Fishburne character may also be modeled after also came up. Then the whole red and blue really after years of pondering the very sentence further down the rabbit whole suggest Neo or we have or always have been in that whole no better than Mad's Cosmo Mcmoon; Or to be made simpler the Morton salt with the girl holding the Morton salt. Now straying back to pill gel tab or whatever, it would probably have been better to take the blue pill wake up from the dream or acid trip in your own bed. A bed theoretically he may have never even seen; being sleep his whole life. Getting closer to the question is a little more along the lines of above to find out if this has been some virtual prison in which we are forced to go through the life that got us put in the chair in the first place; just to find out if we would make the same A.B.C.D Fringe choices to prove whether innocent or guilty. Though anthropologicaly thinking all that is relative to the law of the land verses Morality and the law of time and things must change in most cases be corrected. So the answer is relative, only time will tell but it is best to enjoy life now. On the scary side if it were real we are running out of phone booths. It might be a good Idea to take a look at Disney, Mickey Mouse looking glass which oddly enough Closer to the title of the Original Alice in Wonderland. Is any body catching on to the psychedelic truths of all these movies that led one to the other; all I am saying is "mushrooms, acids, and trips oh my. If that is not Mad enough for you, then it must be a matter of hat size for the Hatter.
Yeah there are deeper and deeper levels of meaning to that film, I find...
Black-hole computing https://aeon-co.cdn.ampproject.org/c/...Might nature’s bottomless pits actually be ultra-efficient quantum computers? That could explain why data never dies
"After you die, your body’s atoms will disperse and find new venues, making their way into oceans, trees and other bodies. But according to the laws of quantum mechanics, all of the information about your body’s build and function will prevail. The relations between the atoms, the uncountable particulars that made you you, will remain forever preserved, albeit in unrecognisably scrambled form – lost in practice, but immortal in principle."
Iain wrote: "But, what's the point having a temp life? Just so you can leave a stain in the universe. Lol"You're entering into "what's the meaning of life?" style-questions...Which very moves into meaningless double speak like this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJIvB...
References to the Gnostic influences in The Matrix film The Return of the Gnostics https://grahamhancock.com/connerm1/
Underground Knowledge — A discussion group
Books mentioned in this topic
The Simulation Hypothesis (other topics)Nineteen Eighty-Four (other topics)
Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies (other topics)
The Matrix and Philosophy: Welcome to the Desert of the Real (other topics)
Adapting philosophy: Jean Baudrillard and *The Matrix Trilogy* (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Elon Musk (other topics)George Orwell (other topics)
Nick Bostrom (other topics)
Elon Musk (other topics)
Harry Whitewolf (other topics)
More...
That's a lot of assumptions for something as unimaginable as creating a virtual reality matrix world. Maybe in the future, the biggest computer could be partially organic and be the size of a pinhead, for instance. Who knows.
Why build it? Maybe we're just entertainment, being watched on T.V. screens by Man Who Fell To Earth type aliens. Who knows.