Vaginal Fantasy Book Club discussion
Oct 2014: Wicked as they Come
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Discuss Wicked as They Come - October Main Pick
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Brittany
(last edited Oct 01, 2014 09:06AM)
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Oct 01, 2014 09:04AM
Started reading this last night and so far I'm liking it. I'm already picturing the dude Tish meets after opening the locket (I'm guessing that's Criminy? It was late and I was falling asleep, so I don't recall if he introduced himself when he gave her his coat) as Colin O'Donoghue/Killian Jones from OUaT.
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I'm liking it already as well! He did introduce himself as Criminy at some point during that interaction. Also: bludbunnies!!!
I think I made myself go to bed right after the bludbunny bit her. Might have to do a little back-reading, because I can't for the life of me remember him introducing himself, lol. Funny that I can remember the bunny and that he lent Tish his coat, and that he reminded me of Hook with long hair, but I can't remember him saying his name!
I'm still hung over from last nights meetup/drinking game. Will start book tomorrow. :-/
I'm a couple of chapters in - very promising so far!
I just started reading the first few chapters before bed and I am loving it so far. Things are kind of happening a bit too quickly, but I like a fun and fast read.
I'm 20% in and enjoying it so far. This 1st person POV is far less annoying than usual because she isn't a silly twit, so a big thumbs up for a heroine in her mid 20's who sounds 25 and not 15 the way most PNR heroines do. The hero though... please tell me how I'm supposed to read his name without seeing "Crimson" instead of "Criminey"? Seriously, I'm thinking of him as Crimson Stain. Can I remove him by soaking overnight in bleach?
I agree, Criminy is a weird name. I'm not entirely sure what my brain thinks it should be read as, but I feel like I keep having to pause longer than necessary to make myself read his name correctly. I am, however, enjoying the book. I'm still not far into it yet, but Tish is likeable and Criminy doesn't seem to be a creeper.
For me (and how I sound out his name in my head), my mind keeps rhyming it with Jiminy and I get "When You Wish Upon A Star" stuck in my head for a while...oy.
Brittany wrote: "Criminy doesn't seem to be a creeper. ..."Criminy seems to be a HUGE creeper to me, which shamefully is part of his attraction at the moment!
I was alternating between reading it as CRYminy and CRIMMiny until Tish said he pronounced it like Jiminy. I'm used to it as a not-swearing word, not as a name!
Alicia wrote: "Brittany wrote: "Criminy doesn't seem to be a creeper. ..."Criminy seems to be a HUGE creeper to me, which shamefully is part of his attraction at the moment!
I was alternating between reading i..."
Oh no! I'm still at the part where they first meet, so he doesn't seem creeptastic at this point. I don't want the hero in this book to be a creeper, I had enough of that with Matthew in last month's Alt. :(
Oh, he's definitely
Brittany wrote: "Oh no! I'm still at the part where they first meet, so he doesn't seem creeptastic at this point...."I'm not very far in! So he's a very engaging, charismatic creeper. I just hate that he seems to have engineered this whole thing and told her NOTHING but not to cuddle bunnies!
She's very sanguine (and I use the term advisedly) about the whole situation too.
I'm about halfway through now, and I think the author does a really good job of showing Letitia's conflicts about being in Sang vs. going back to the "real world". At the very beginning, Letitia still partially believes she is dreaming, so that accounts for some of her initial positivity. Also, is this a thread where we can post spoilers, or should we create a new thread for spoiler-y discussions?
Kelsy wrote: "Also, is this a thread where we can post spoilers, or should we create a new thread for spoiler-y discussions? ..."For me it's a given that there will be spoilers in the discussion threads about the books we are reading. You can always use the spoiler tag if you don't want to reveal to much. (view spoiler)
PointyEars42 wrote: "I'm 20% in and enjoying it so far. This 1st person POV is far less annoying than usual because she isn't a silly twit..."Being new to the romance genre, allow me to confess to having no real breadth when it comes to knowing other "silly twits", but "silly twit" was as good an explanation as any in chapter 4, during the following exchange, where Criminy and Tish were talking how things were "blud" this, "blood" that, "Sang" this, "Sang" that:
"Sang," I mused to myself. "In the past tense. I like that. ..."
I always read "Sang" as shorthand for "sanguine", a bloody color, but then she appears to be musing it's the past tense of "Sing", which makes no evident sense in the surrounding text.
Just checked Youtube, and Dawson pronounces Criminy to rhyme with Jiminy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVsZ4z...Have to admit I'd have gone for CRYmuhnee if I hadn't checked (the faux swear word).
He's abducted her away from her entire plane of existence, may cause her infirm grandmother to starve to death, isn't trying to hide that he's hiding important things from her, is withholding info for the sake of appearing mysterious, is working hard to ensure that she's utterly dependent on him (for an income, a home, and safety), states upfront that he considers her prey and that he expects her stop running well before he stops hunting her... and she still thinks he's an improvement over her conventionally abusive ex and is swooning over him because he's hot. That's going to end well. I hope Sang has a domestic violence hotline she can call. Sigh, why does this sort of behaviour get romanticised in these books? I really hope its revealed that she's overall so calm and compliant because she's really hoping at Sang is just a dream. Criminy Creeper indeed.On other hand - I'm loving how this alt world is the explanation for where your mind wanders off to, given the right conditions. Really liking that. Isn't there a TV show with same basic premise?
Morbus wrote: "PointyEars42 wrote: "I'm 20% in and enjoying it so far. This 1st person POV is far less annoying than usual because she isn't a silly twit..."Being new to the romance genre, allow me to confess t..."
"Silly twit" is relative, believe me. Many romance heroines would still be trying to play with bunnies or wandering off alone a lot just to create an opportunity for the hero to rescue her.
PointyEars42 wrote: "He's abducted her away from her entire plane of existence, may cause her infirm grandmother to starve to death, isn't trying to hide that he's hiding important things from her, is withholding info ..."To give a different perspective on this (and this could be because I've read halfway already), but (view spoiler)
So, that being said, yes, there are some of the usual possessiveness and "you will be mine" statements that comes with the territory of the soul bonding/fated lovers subset of the romance genre. Overall, however, I think the author balances the inherent weirdness of that with Letitia's feelings of confusion and wanting to return to the real world, her independence there, and her sick grandmother.
Serendi wrote: "Just checked Youtube, and Dawson pronounces Criminy to rhyme with Jiminy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVsZ4z...Have to admit I'd have gone for CRYmuhnee if I hadn't checked (the faux swear w..."
Thanks for this! I am terrible at pronouncing names.
Kelsy wrote: "PointyEars42 wrote: "He's abducted her away from her entire plane of existence, may cause her infirm grandmother to starve to death, isn't trying to hide that he's hiding important things from her,..."He deliberately created the problem so I don't think he deserves points for helping her after the fact but I guess I'll just have to see how the story unfolds since I haven't gotten to any of those redemptive moments yet.
Yeesh. With the inclusion of caravans and the like, I was crossing my fingers in hopes that a certain racial slur would not be included. I was wrong. Many sighs from my end.Still enjoying the book a lot, but I am a bit disappointed by the use of the slur.
Beth wrote: "Yeesh. With the inclusion of caravans and the like, I was crossing my fingers in hopes that a certain racial slur would not be included. I was wrong. Many sighs from my end."
Yes. It's problematic.
So, the part I think I left off at last night was when Criminy was just about to take Tish to his carnival caravan group. I'm still not getting the Super Creep vibe from him, but it is fishy that he seems to have brought Tish to Sang. Did anyone else get the Jareth vibe (Jareth from the movie Labyrinth, I mean) when Criminy said something along the lines of, "Trust me. Join me. Be my love."? I wonder if this is Insta-Love or if he's just known of her for a long time and infatuation is being confused with love? Seems a bit quick for him to be all, "You're going to love me and I don't give up easily" at her. And Tish just seems to be in a daze to me. She's only just started to realize that Sang is not actually a lucid dream, but she's a little blasé about it imo. If I were her and had just caught on to the fact that this new weird place where vampire!everything was the norm, I'd be freaking out a little more than she is. Especially, if I had responsibilities like she does back home.
Brittany wrote: " Did anyone else get the Jareth vibe (Jareth from the movie Labyrinth, I mean) when Criminy said something along the lines of, "Trust me. Join me. Be my love."?"YES. I got total Jareth vibes from Criminy. Glad to know it was not just me.
Hmmm. Well that was unsatisfying.If the locket and Criminy's blud called Tish to Sang, what/how were the other Strangers brought there?
What was the source of The Magistrate's power? It seemed like as soon as he died things got better for the Bludmen, so it was just one man oppressing them, even though there was, seemingly, generations of prejudice between Bludmen & pinkies? But there was the mention of how Coppers came into power... It didn't really make sense to me.
And I know she's a nurse & all, but a *little* more concern about waking up covered in an old man's urine would be appropriate, I think.
I was also irritated by her assumption that neither she nor Criminy would find her attractive when she is old & wrinkly. I know she's supposed to be pretty young, but I can't imagine that she'd actually be a good geriatric nurse if she has such a horror of elderly bodies. So you know that after her grandmother dies she will go to Sang full time and let Crim change her, so she doesn't have to deal with aging... which is the vampire trope I like the least, I think.
Beth wrote: "Yeesh. With the inclusion of caravans and the like, I was crossing my fingers in hopes that a certain racial slur would not be included. I was wrong. Many sighs from my end."For what it's worth, the author posted the following on her FB page today:
"I'm so excited that WICKED AS THEY COME is the October main pick for Vaginal Fantasy Book Club! If you're reading it now, I'd like to apologize for use of the word "gypsy" therein. I was not aware that it was a slur, and as soon as readers let me know that it was derogatory, I stopped using it. By book 3, it was definitely gone from my lexicon. I hope you're still able to enjoy the book despite my ignorance."
Elizabeth wrote: "For what it's worth, the author posted the following on her FB page today..."That is amazing. I am glad readers brought up the issue, she made a sincere apology, and she dropped the slur from her vocabulary. Not many will own up to their own ignorance and mistakes. Good on the author.
So... are we okay with the fact that she routinely sneakily drugs her grandmother? I hide my pets' tablets inside pieces of cheese, and its more like that than that she's roofying her, right? Its not like the old woman may need to be wakeable and focused enough during the night to dial for an ambulance or the fire brigade or police - old people who live alone don't need their wits about them the way the rest of us do, so its cool if she's doped & unconscious. Its not like there are any alternative ways to deal with what Tish knows aren't actually random, fantastical nightmares.
PointyEars42 wrote: "So... are we okay with the fact that she routinely sneakily drugs her grandmother? "Really good observation!
Tish slipping her grandmother sleeping pills did not really faze me until she decided to give her grandmother an "extra half of an Ambient". That was when I got a bit irked out. Nurse or not, changing the doses on your ill grandmother's prescribed medication? Might not be a good idea.Hopefully, there was some "offscreen" consulting with a doctor or something.
If I haven't read the BOM I always read the preview for it on Amazon to see if it catches my interest.The reason I decided to read this one are the bludbunnies, I love them. They made me think of Anya from Buffy, these would be her kind of bunnies.
Mod
Those with Romani blood feel it is a racial slur, implying thievery and such.
The slur was created by (I believe) Europeans thinking Romani came from Egypt. Like Michelle said, the slur refers to them as thieves and there is a terrible history behind the word. I am not Roma and would not want to speak over one. If you search for "why is ____ a slur", there are many articles and posts made by Romani explaining why the term is hurtful and the antiziganism that still exists in the world (and a content warning as some of the results show images of violence against Romani).
Mod
The problem is that the word is not universally seen as bad. Many find it offensive now, but historically it was accepted as the norm and even incorporated into the names of Romani organizations, some which still exist. (e.g. The International Romani Union, an organization for the rights of the Romani people, was once called The World Gypsy Community and later the International Gypsy Committee.) It wasn't until 1971 that the World Romani Congress adopted the self-appellation of "Roma" rather than gypsy.
Today, it also synonymous with bohemian or hippie, i.e. non-traditional lifestyles, when used in the lower case. Generally, however, it falls into the category of words which were once common but have fallen out of favor.
This sort of thing happens all the time. Weird Al recently used the word "spastic" in his song Word Crimes but was unaware that it is considered offensive by people with movement disorders. 18 million views on YouTube and counting, so things could be worse.
Mod
I am only a hundred pages in, so I don't know if he turns out to be a major douche or not... but can I just say, Casper: so freaking hot! Pirate pianist? Yes, please!
Also, I cannot get past hearing Criminey as the fake swear word in my head, as others have said. One sentence started "For Criminey's sake" and my brain heard it like "for Christ's sake!" which really didn't fit the context and temporarily threw me for a loop. ;)
I didn't think I'd like this pick at all, but I was wrong! The typical romance-y bits of the plot are definitely meh for me and some of the dialogue was clunky but I really liked the world, especially Criminey's carnival. I do wish we could have had fewer scenes with just the 2 of them and more exploration of the other characters.
Julie wrote: "I do wish we could have had fewer scenes with just the 2 of them and more exploration of the other characters..."I agree. It would have made more sense when whatshername appears and turns out to be a bad guy, if there had been any sense of her as a character before!
There seems to be a very little amount of verbs or adjectives in relation to her speech, so Letitia is "flat" and "boring" to me. I've also noticed a lot of "I said" being used. Criminy seems very much "alive" and animated. He's very much a pretty painted picture.
If you're reading the story as a story to get lost in, you probably wouldn't notice it as much. I thought as a story is was good, but I feel like I'm left "hanging", as I am left asking myself questions and going back over the book to see if I missed something in hopes to piece it together.
I just started chapter four and I love this book so far. I can't wait to get deeper into it. I love the way the author seems to be slowly easing me (as the reader) into the world...the pace is comfortable and I don't feel like I've been dropped into the deep end of the pool without any floaties. Allison, I had the same reaction to Criminey's name at first. But it's growing on me. ;)
Was anyone else annoyed by the massive info dump in the first couple chapters? Like she was reciting her whole life story?Aside from that, I'm finding it a bit like cotten candy, sugary sweet, pink and fluffy, but not very satisfying overall. Fun, but I'm not totally hooked (I'm up to chapter 11).
As for the creeping or whatever, I don't see it really. He basically made a wish for the woman of his dreams, and there she is, wearing his locket. But his is a world where magic is real - he KNOWS she is his other half, believes it down to his boots. She just hasn't accepted it yet. And now, she's going back and forth, so no real problems with giving up the real world for him, at least not yet for me so...Why all the fears he's going to abuse her?
Sean™ wrote: "Felicia wrote: "I had no idea gypsy was a really bad word to say omg I'm so mortified now!"The problem is that the word is not universally seen as bad. Many find it offensive now, but historicall..."
I know that I've heard that "spastic" is perceived as much more offensive in Britain then it is considered to be in America. Just like their alternate/slang term for cigarette has very different connotations in America.
"Meh" is my general feeling about this book. It had its cute/funny moments. I sometimes liked the characters. However, too many plot points were a complete waste of time and the ending was anti-climatic for me. I also the though the epilogue was cop-out, she didn't seem sure how to give us the ending we wanted. The world was fun, but it was often to 'unbelievable' for me to stay there. I was often torn away. Honestly, the plot read like fanfic to me. So much so, that after Casper was introduced I kept looking for hints. I am still partially convinced that this may have been twilight fanfiction...(torno-Emmett, em-Alice, the sulky blud man who followed em around- jasper, the bitchy mermaid Tabitha-either Rosalie or Tanya) Just food for thought.
Maybe it wasn't, but all these characters were wholly unnecessary. I wished they hadn't been, because some of them seemed pretty funny interesting.
It wasn't a completely unenjoyable read, but those were my issues with it.
A nice speculation, but I disagree on a few parts. A lot of Twilight-fanfiction-turned-books' main male and female characters tend to share traits (both physical and personality-wise) of their Twilight counterparts. Criminy reminds me nothing of Edward as Tish to Bella. The Wicked pair seem to be stark contrasts of the Twilight duo. While in a book such as Fifty Shades, Christian and Anastasia both carry over visual and internal traits (not all but plenty) of Edward/Bella.However, I do agree on the Casper part. I kind of get Jacob-ish vibes from him and the fact that she knew of him (sort of) before meeting Criminy.
Could this have been a fanfic with some minor changes and renaming done? Possible. Making canon characters OOC is nothing new in the realm of fanworkings.
