Discuss Wicked as They Come - October Main Pick

[Elizabeth]

Laurel wrote: "Sorry for entering the chat a bit late, but if I may add, I'm willing to give a first book in a series a bit of a pass on a few uneven plot points or scenes if the rest is there.

I could imagine e..."

I think you worded this really well. Letitia may not be my favorite female character of all time, but I could relate to how she felt about Casper and her ex. It kind of sucks when your with some one where you feel like you cannot completely express yourself. I can see how Crimminy has some issues, but it seemed to me that Letitia felt that she could be herself around him.

I think thats what the author was trying to get across. She may have not have written that well enough to reach every one but it was a debut novel. It won't surprise me if the other books improve some of the problems other readers have highlighted.

[Maria]

ok so is anyone watching the new season of AHS? because when they got to the sexy times and she kept mentioning his hands I just kept having flash backs to Evan Peters lobster fingering that housewife last week.

[Beth]

I actually thought of Howl from Howl's Moving Castle and whenever his hand/arm turns black and clawlike.

[Alicia]

Anja wrote: "I highly recommend checking out this interview if you wrote in this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ8K9... . It touches on a LOT of the things we've discussed.

Including that Criminy'..."

It's saying that video is set to private?

[Jennifer]

Well, it was interesting. I like the worldbuilding on this one. Very interesting world. I like how Strangers, people from the "normal" world come into Sang when dreaming or in comas. (Omg, it's the Fade! I just realized that. And this after 1000 hours of playtime on Dragon Age.)

Tish seemed to be taking the relationship into her own hands, too. She didn't totally let Criminey control her all the time, which I liked, since she had gotten out of one of those types of relationships.

I also kinda liked the...everythingness of this book...Vampire-steampunk-magic mix. And that the bludmen were vampire like but not really typical vampires.

[[deleted user]]

Alicia wrote: "Anja wrote: "I highly recommend checking out this interview if you wrote in this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ8K9... . It touches on a LOT of the things we've discussed.

Including ..."

I guess they took it down post-hangout and are going to put it up later. : (

[Mandy]

Anja wrote: "Alicia wrote: "Anja wrote: "I highly recommend checking out this interview if you wrote in this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ8K9... . It touches on a LOT of the things we've discuss..."

I hope they will repost!

[Kat]

I have to admit, I set out thinking it would be more cookie cutter vampire romance, but it pleasantly surprised me!

Kelly wrote: "I had to smirk a little when the Ebola virus showed up -- what an unexpectedly topical read."

I found that interesting too. Several little bits of the book resonated with me, actually. I've been helping my uncle out with the care of my grandmother lately, so I identified with her sense of duty towards her.

I really liked having a main character who was, for the most part, headstrong without coming across as a whiny little brat.

Jennifer wrote: "I also kinda liked the...everythingness of this book...Vampire-steampunk-magic mix."

This. (Plus the multi-universe-travelling-thing.) The mashup of so many different standard themes is what made the story feel new and interesting to me.

[Somethingblue]

Does anyone else keep picturing Criminy as Johnny Depp in Alice in Wonderland? Because I do and so he's missing some of the sex appeal to me, damn it.

[Laurel]

Someone mentioned Jack Huston in casting, and I've gotten his face stuck in my head!

[Heather]

Somethingblue wrote: "Does anyone else keep picturing Criminy as Johnny Depp in Alice in Wonderland? Because I do and so he's missing some of the sex appeal to me, damn it."

That's about as (un)sexy as I found him to be.

[Jordan]

Katie wrote: "I'm kind of put off by the way Tish immediately reacts to both Criminy and Casper. There's so much about her abusive relationship and how she's trying to rebuild herself and form an independent lif..."

This. Exactly this is how I'm feeling. I'm about a hundred pages in, and it seems as if I should stick around for the world building at the very least, but this reason is exactly why I couldn't finish A Discovery of Witches last month. And this considering I have an incredibly hard time not finishing books once I've started them.

[[deleted user]]

Jordan wrote: "Katie wrote: "I'm kind of put off by the way Tish immediately reacts to both Criminy and Casper. There's so much about her abusive relationship and how she's trying to rebuild herself and form an i..."

I'm finding this interesting. In the author interview, the author spoke about how she wanted this story to be a story of consent and escaping abusive relationships. Yet, the discussion here interprets Criminy as having abusive behaviour and not really respecting consent. (And I agree. Before the author spoke about her intentions with Criminy, I found his behaviour to be not so wonderful.)

[Jordan]

Anja wrote: I'm finding this interesting. In the author interview, the author spoke about how she wanted this story to be a story of consent and escaping abusive relationships..."

That IS interesting. I mean, I guess in the most literal, physical sense of the word "abusive," Criminy has not hit her or sexually assaulted her. And I also guess there are some ladies out there who would find Criminy's behavior endearing or a sign of devotion or whatever. But while I consider myself an empathetic person with a good (read: overactive) imagination, I have a hard time putting myself in the shoes of a girl who hears some of these lines and just lets them go.

Now beyond the relationship issues, I'm also starting to notice some of the writing inconsistencies that other folks have been mentioning. For example, towards the beginning of Chapter 18, Letitia and Criminy are leaving the city and Criminy has put a spell on her as they're leaving through the guard station, and she says the guard looked at her and then "sneered in disgust, and, oddly, pity." How did she know it was pity? I have never heard of anyone "sneering in pity" before. Sneering in disgust, sure. That's a pretty recognizable facial expression. But pity? That's a bit harder to read. For some reason, that phrasing really bothered me.

I also think that the names of pretty much everything in Sang are a bit too on-the-nose. First of all, Sang. As somebody else said, I immediately thought of sang as in "related to blood" and not sang as in the past tense of sing. Then we've got Criminy STAIN? Mrs. CLEAVERS? And Antonin SCABROUS? Like, what?

[[deleted user]]

Jordan wrote: "Anja wrote: I'm finding this interesting. In the author interview, the author spoke about how she wanted this story to be a story of consent and escaping abusive relationships..."

That IS interest..."

Hahha you forgot my favourite EMERLIE FETCHING (I'm really fetching). But I actually loved that one. It made me giggle.

Definitely, before the modern discussions of consent that are currently happening right now, I would have perceived Criminy's behaviour as endearing rather than realizing what was going on in the undercurrent. He's part of that school of, "I won't do anything as long as you say no but I'm convinced that I know better than you so I will keep pushing until you become exhausted from it and stop saying no."

The sort of view of sex as a "conquest".

And I will admit. Until recent conversations, I was completely blind to that behaviour. I had an ex who'd say things like, "your playing hard to get is getting dull" and that didn't set off a red flag.

[PointyEars42]

So many romances treat 'making the best of a bad situation' as if it's the same thing as agency+consent.

[Alicia]

PointyEars42 wrote: "So many romances treat 'making the best of a bad situation' as if it's the same thing as agency+consent."

Very true. "Enthusiastic consent" is what we are going for people! Two (or more...) people who are unambiguously into each other and express it freely.

[Michele]

Alicia wrote: "PointyEars42 wrote: "So many romances treat 'making the best of a bad situation' as if it's the same thing as agency+consent."

Very true. "Enthusiastic consent" is what we are going for people! Tw..."

Really?

"Hey, you're hot! Let's bone!"
"Yeah, let's get it on!"
A few days later - "Ah, it's Destiny! Insta-love!"

Story over....

I agree, for real life, consent and mutual attraction are key.

For a romance novel, there's not a lot of dramatic tension there. Of course, the drama can come from other plot stuff, but meh - I prefer my romances to be full of misunderstandings and denial and sexual tensions and general ridiculousness.

After all, if we're going for, "Meant for one another," "True Love," "Fated to be together," "Perfect for each other," then the fact is at least one of the characters has to be in denial for a good part of the story or it just gets boring. At least here, it's the guy who wants love and romance. This is a nice change from the woman doing the chasing. I've read countless stories where the woman is an actual stalker, and that's totally ok. Yet this makes him a creeper?

In this case, Criminy KNOWS absolutely that Tish IS his destined partner. Magic says so, and he believes it absolutely. She will obviously come to realize this also - it's a romance. Should he not have cast the spell to bring him his true love? Then she would have stayed in our world and had 2.5 kids and a cat and white picket fence and a minivan. Ugh.

I don't know really how else he could treat her - ignore her completely until she admits it to herself? Watch her from afar as she gets herself killed by bludbunnies? Talk to her like any other employee? IDK, I think if you read a romance, you shouldn't expect a normal, real life courtship.

I guess I'm old-school like that.

[Ephy]

I agree with you Michel.

I don't want to read about real life romance. This is supposed to be paranormal romantic fantasy.

I like that Criminy is a romantic and cast a spell to bring him his true love. However, I wish he hadn't have revealed that to her so early on. I think that would have been a nice tension. She starts to have feeling for him and has given in to those feelings (typical romance novel heavy petting before they go to far) and then have it revealed that she was summoned because of the spell. She could have then questioned her own feeling for him ... Love spell? Then had the realization, that no, she does genuinely care for him.

I always want to add about Casper.
I have read enough romance series to spot when a character is being set up as the next character pretty well. Which is why her faux romantic feelings for him felt so forced.

Why couldn't they have just been friends? Two people from the same time and place who were able to connect on that strangeness ? Why did Casper need to be instantly attracted to her as well?

[Ephy]

I agree with you Michel.

I don't want to read about real life romance. This is supposed to be paranormal romantic fantasy.

I like that Criminy is a romantic and cast a spell to bring him his true love. However, I wish he hadn't have revealed that to her so early on. I think that would have been a nice tension. She starts to have feeling for him and has given in to those feelings (typical romance novel heavy petting before they go to far) and then have it revealed that she was summoned because of the spell. She could have then questioned her own feeling for him ... Love spell? Then had the realization, that no, she does genuinely care for him.

I always want to add about Casper.
I have read enough romance series to spot when a character is being set up as the next character pretty well. Which is why her faux romantic feelings for him felt so forced.

Why couldn't they have just been friends? Two people from the same time and place who were able to connect on that strangeness ? Why did Casper need to be instantly attracted to her as well?

[Ephy]

Sorry about the double post. Stupid phone. I'm also sorry Michele, spelt you name wrong.
Does anyone know how to edit/delete on the goodreads app?

Anyway.

I also wanted to ask if anyone else was a little weirded out about the bludmens hands?

All I could picture was Penguin's hands from the 1990 ish Batman with Catwoman movie. But with scales or whatever. Haha

[Hannah]

Michele wrote: "Alicia wrote: "PointyEars42 wrote: "So many romances treat 'making the best of a bad situation' as if it's the same thing as agency+consent."

Very true. "Enthusiastic consent" is what we are going..."

I think you put this very well. No one expects the content of these novels to be realistic... isn't that the point? Sometimes it's nice to read a 'whisk me away goblin king' kind of story!

[[deleted user]]

Hannah wrote: "Michele wrote: "Alicia wrote: "PointyEars42 wrote: "So many romances treat 'making the best of a bad situation' as if it's the same thing as agency+consent."

Very true. "Enthusiastic consent" is w..."

First of all, I don't think female stalking is considered okay. That's why there's this negative association with "fan girls" and the "crazy ex girlfriend" thing.

Now that that's out of the way.

In defense of the posters who did not like Criminy, this isn't us disliking "whisk me away" stories. I for one love those.

Also, Shoujo anime does the unreciprocated kind of story a lot. Where one character has a crush on the other and the other doesn't reciprocate feelings until episode 15. And I love those types of story.

I think the issue with Criminy goes a bit beyond that.

He used a spell that would bring his true love to him, knowing full well that that would give her an accelerated aging process and decided not to tell her.
That is selfish.

He fed her blood, also deciding not to tell her.

This isn't someone not getting his feelings reciprocated and just sharing his feelings a lot. This is someone making decisions for her that have consequences, physical and moral, for her and deciding he knows better.

I don't think anyone expects romance stories to have perfect protagonists. I actually wrote a post about how functional relationships don't always lead to the most interesting plots but I think Criminy, for some of us, felt like a bit too extreme.

But if it's still in your reading comfort zone, I can understand the romance in it. I think it was just a bit out of mine.

[Heather]

Anja wrote: "Hannah wrote: "Michele wrote: "Alicia wrote: "PointyEars42 wrote: "So many romances treat 'making the best of a bad situation' as if it's the same thing as agency+consent."

Very true. "Enthusiasti..."

It was just so uncomfortable for me. His making the decisions and holding her life in his hands (because he stole her away into his very dangerous world for himself) feels so much like abuse. Maybe it wouldn't have been as bad if she hadn't been in an abusive relationship before where she was treated like an ignorant child- and then he does the same thing. He makes the decisions because he just know what's best. Well, yes, he does know more about the world. He could, however, take a moment to explain something, give her options, let her know ahead of time what might happen, ask her how she feels about certain situations before just acting. It's just all really manipulative and dismissive of her beyond someone he wants to marry.

I think the point of no redemption for me was when Tish was pushed into selling her blood when they go into the city. He doesn't ask for permission or explain what needs to happen/what will happen when she sells it. He's just selling part of her body for information.

I had a hard enough time getting over her be magically kidnapped. I mean honestly, couldn't it have been a weird freakish magical accident and he thinks they're fated to be together because he's the one that finds her? It would have made me less disgusted.

[[deleted user]]

Heather wrote: "Anja wrote: "Hannah wrote: "Michele wrote: "Alicia wrote: "PointyEars42 wrote: "So many romances treat 'making the best of a bad situation' as if it's the same thing as agency+consent."

Very true...."

Or a Gandalf scene! He opens a portal and finds her and says, "You're bored with your job, your life and you just keep dwelling on the past. Why don't you come with me?"

[Jordan]

Ditto what both Anja and Heather explicated up there. Described the way I'm feeling as well with such eloquence.

Michele wrote: "Alicia wrote: "PointyEars42 wrote: "So many romances treat 'making the best of a bad situation' as if it's the same thing as agency+consent."

Very true. "Enthusiastic consent" is what we are going..."

In addition to what Anja and Heather have already said about this, I'll say I also don't necessarily have a problem with the "fated" relationship trope (although it's probably one of my least favourite and often feels lazy to me). But there are ways to show that tension, to have one person more sure of the relationship than the other, without having that person be entirely manipulative of the relationship. Letitia could have felt reticence to start a relationship with Criminy, despite her obvious attraction to him, because of her past experiences. That could have provided some tension. She could have actually objected to the way he often times infantilized her, and that could have provided tension. These are all ways that Criminy could have been more sure than Letitia, and still respected her as a character and individual.

Do I always want to see realistic relationships in my fiction? Of course not. That's why I often read supernatural romance. But neither do I want to see unhealthy relationships masquerading as "fate."

[PointyEars42]

I suppose it comes down to personal taste at the end of the day. I grew up reading rapey Old Skool romances and while I can partially justify it in historical settings, I just don't get why an author would create a modern heroine who needs to be tricked or convinced into a relationship the way an 80's bodice-ripper heroine did. It feels like a lazy shortcut so that the hero doesn't have to work to be worthy of her attraction and affection. I want to see the fundamentals of a real life relationship perfected in my romance novels.

Criminy: "Wait, you don't auto-love me just because its Magic? Oh noes, I come off as a kidnapper! (Action! Adventure!) I'm going to work through my embarrasment and sadness and guilt and fall in love with the REAL you, not some, random wished-for girlfriend. (Blud-whatevers! Entirely New World!)"

Trish:"Wow, you messed up, but you befriended me & mentored me & showed me how to survive here without expecting me to repay you - even though your heart's obviously broken. (Presented with choices but choses to stay) We're kicking ass together. (Action! Adventure!) I've had time to suss you out before acting on my attraction, because, damn, you're hot, but I've had enough of accidentally hooking up with barbarians (Emotionally charged sexy times!)".

{Plot twist! Conflicted feelings!}

Me: "Hey, great paranormal fantasy with a slowly unfolding romance. They're from totally differnt world's but still have so many fundemental commonalities. The sex is so much hotter now that she's ready and knows he cares enough to put the real Tish ahead of some belief she hadn't heard of a week ago. Oh, wait, she roofied someone? Again? DNF!"

[Beth]

Jordan wrote: "Do I always want to see realistic relationships in my fiction? Of course not. That's why I often read supernatural romance. But neither do I want to see unhealthy relationships masquerading as "fate.""

Unfortunately, unhealthy relationships seem to be the norm in many paranormal (and regular) romance.

This is why I was able to give Criminy a bit of a leeway and that is saying much. In the past two years, I have read romance books with the group and on my own where the men just seem to be the extreme of the alpha male or the dominating/controlling partner or the silly-woman-I-know-what's-best macho stereotype, and so on and so on and so on. I think this really says something about the genre as a whole.

Whenever I go to review a romance novel where the male was just the absolute worst, I see all of these reviews giving four to five stars. Now, I don't know how many of these were bought reviews, but they still get me scratching my head. Did I read the same books as these other people? Did they miss all of these instances where the male treated the female like scum or a child or property?

Yes, there are exceptions and I would love to see more romances explore healthier relationships and where the woman is...y'know, SEEN and TREATED as an actual human being, but mainstream books seem to stick with the old, tired, and dangerous troupes. I don't know if this is just a "safety net" of sorts for authors or if this is all the publishers will turn out to the public. That's another discussion for another day.

Sorry to get off topic, but I'm just worn out from these stereotypes. And this is not to deter anyone who enjoys these books. Escapism and fantasies are harmless fun. And I'm still enjoying the book in spite of how the characters are acting and treating one another.

[Michelle]

Anja wrote: "I highly recommend checking out this interview if you wrote in this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ8K9... . It touches on a LOT of the things we've discussed.

Including that Criminy'..."

Oh cool! I hope they put the post back up...I would love to see the interview!

I'm still a little on the fence with this book. I find myself swinging back and forth between liking it and wanting to hit it with sticks. I would have liked to see more interaction with the crazy mer-vamp before she tried to kill Tish and then dove out the window. I'm sure there's something coming later since she escaped, but right now, it just feels like another one of those moments that was crowbarred into the story like the ghost in the ocean.

Right now, it's just lacking any sort of real emotional pull for me. Again, I LOVE the world-building and I would love to say that I love the story. But I just don't. I definitely intend to check out the other stories that take place in the caravan later.

Anywho, back to reading!

M

[Jordan]

Beth wrote: Whenever I go to review a romance novel where the male was just the absolute worst, I see all of these reviews giving four to five stars. Now, I don't know how many of these were bought reviews, but they still get me scratching my head. Did I read the same books as these other people? Did they miss all of these instances where the male treated the female like scum or a child or property?

Agree. So much. I first noticed this when I read a book, The Edge of Never, which I got on Kindle for $1.99 and was appalled at the sexist, misogynistic, racist content in the guise of a romance book. And then I went to the Goodreads page and it was all five stars. Ugh.

For this book, It probably doesn't help that I just finished shotgunning the rest of the Kate Daniels series either. Kate is such a kick-ass, substantial character—who also has tension related to a man thinking that she's going to end up with him, and they end up together without him manipulating her—and if Criminy had said to Kate some of the things he's said to Letitia, Kate would have punched him straight in the nose.

Like Beth, I am also enjoying the book; I just have some critiques about it.

[[deleted user]]

Jordan wrote: "Beth wrote: Whenever I go to review a romance novel where the male was just the absolute worst, I see all of these reviews giving four to five stars. Now, I don't know how many of these were bought..."

I'm really curious about what is Goodreads algorithm in sorting reviews. I know my friend who used Goodreads primarily for his critiquing platform had a bunch of his lower rating reviews deleted when Amazon bought Goodreads.

Perhaps it biases towards the sorting of higher ratings to give books a more positive impression so you'd buy them? *shudder*

[Beth]

Jordan wrote: "It probably doesn't help that I just finished shotgunning the rest of the Kate Daniels series either. Kate is such a kick-ass, substantial character—who also has tension related to a man thinking that she's going to end up with him, and they end up together without him manipulating her—and if Criminy had said to Kate some of the things he's said to Letitia, Kate would have punched him straight in the nose."

Haha. I'm the total opposite at this moment. I'm burning through a PNR series while reading this one. God, the males from those books are just absolutely dreadful and they make Criminy look like a saint. Guess I should have "cleansed my palate" so to speak before picking the main book up.

Anja wrote: "Perhaps it biases towards the sorting of higher ratings to give books a more positive impression so you'd buy them? *shudder*"

Would not be surprised in the least. It's very similar to seeing a commercial for a bad movie I had just seen and the voice over claiming it's the number one movie in America . And I go, "Says who?" or think it's a really slow season for the box office.

[Heather]

I think I'm more forgiving about possessiveness towards shape-shifter/were characters because they tend to incorporate animalistic/territorial aspects into their culture. If Criminy acted like he does because he's a Bludman (and maybe they use magic to pull people through worlds or conjure up their true love or something), I might have been more forgiving. There was almost nothing to separate their culture from standard humans. They were a persecuted minority, but there wasn't a Bludman culture. That was the only really disappointing thing for me in the worldbuilding and it might have helped me be okay with Criminy.


Jordan wrote: "It probably doesn't help that I just finished shotgunning the rest of the Kate Daniels series either. Kate is such a kick-ass, substantial character—who also has tension related to a man thinking that she's going to end up with him, and they end up together without him manipulating her—and if Criminy had said to Kate some of the things he's said to Letitia, Kate would have punched him straight in the nose."

I just did the same thing. There's some crazy in their relationship, but it still feels healthy, fun, and sexy. I've just read so many better relationship developments that this one just really disappointing.

[Alicia]

Michele wrote: "Really?

"Hey, you're hot! Let's bone!"
"Yeah, let's get it on!"
A few days later - "Ah, it's Destiny! Insta-love!"

Story over..."

You don't think a decent writer would be able to create a plot that has tension, romance and dynamic relationships without the drugging and kidnaps?

[Katie]

I'm so happy about the course this discussion has taken. I'm so used to Tumblr where the second you mention that you have an issue with the "no means try harder" mentality some male characters have you get jumped all over. So I'm happy to see how reasonable and respectful this conversation is.

I'm STILL not done with the book (I got swamped with school this week). I'm about half way through. From a character perspective I'm still really bothered by the way Tish has been written. Like I said before, I've been really put off by her reaction to Criminy considering how she talked about wanting to escape her abusive relationship with her fiancee and make an independent life for herself. Initially she seemed a little resistant to Criminy, but that didn't last for long, and there was a line about how hard it was going to be to choose between him an Casper, which just brought out a really uncomfortable WTF reaction from me. It's just a foregone conclusion from this woman who so badly wanted her own, independent life that she's going to end up with one of these men, both of whom she's only really known for a day or two. There's not even any thought that she might not choose either of them. I really, REALLY hated that. That idea that she has to choose to be in a relationship with at least one of them. It does the character such a disservice and sends that terrible message that a woman HAS to have a man. Obviously, being a romance novel, she IS going to end up with one of them. But treating it like it's just a fact that she has to is kind of insulting. And it just strips away any kind of character, story, or relationship development.

She barely knows either of these men. She knows that she's physically attracted to them and she knows how they're behaving with her, which is kind of just them behaving specifically to charm her. She doesn't really KNOW them, and yet she's just decided she's going to be with one of them.

And Criminy's behavior is potentially abusive. Physical abuse isn't the only kind of abuse, and his possessive, jealous behavior are red flags. His refusal to take no for an answer and his belief that he knows better than Tish what's good for her (not in regards to her safety in Sang, which he probably does know better than her, but in regards to her future, her relationships, and what she wants) is an ENORMOUS red flag. One of the problems with Tish's ex was his controlling behavior, but what Criminy is doing is just as controlling, just in a different way. And again, it's such a bad message to send that men know better than the woman they're pursuing, that no doesn't mean no, and that woman lie about what they want.

I really love the world building to this story, I love the way the carnival was set up, but the relationships at the core of this book are just dripping with a kind of casual sexism that makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

[Katie]

Ashton wrote: "I always want to add about Casper.
I have read enough romance series to spot when a character is being set up as the next character pretty well. Which is why her faux romantic feelings for him felt so forced.

Why couldn't they have just been friends? Two people from the same time and place who were able to connect on that strangeness ? Why did Casper need to be instantly attracted to her as well? "

I really agree with this. It felt like it was just shoved into the story because it would create a love triangle. And the triangle felt like it was just forced into it because, well, it's a romance novel so there's supposed to be a love triangle.

It felt so unnatural and inorganic. As much issue as I have with Criminy's behavior and Tish's reaction to them, at least the writer was able to create a genuine chemistry between them. There was nothing like that with Casper. There was no chemistry, and their scenes together felt awkward.

[[deleted user]]

Katie wrote: "Ashton wrote: "I always want to add about Casper.
I have read enough romance series to spot when a character is being set up as the next character pretty well. Which is why her faux romantic feelin..."

I think Casper suffered from the illness known as the metaphor.

Criminy and him seemed to be symbols of a choice between comfort/boredom and excitement/strangeness. As a result of Casper being a symbol, the moments with him seem to have been limited to his symbolness and every aspect of character development were cut out in order to leave more space for plot.

As a result, while the symbol remained, his characterness felt lacking.

[Ephy]

Anja, yeah I see where you are going with that. However, I don't think this author consciously decided to make that metaphor. Maybe it crossed her mind at some point, but as soon as she realized he'd be the lead for the next in the series, the whole metaphor became contrived and silly. And forced.

For some silly reason the author felt like she needed to spell it out for us several times of the course of the book, that Tish is a strong independent woman... And she will never be with another man like her ex! Gah, that drove me crazy.

I'm gettin away from the point I was trying to get to though, it that the character development got pushed away for the 'plot', but the plot was barely holding itself together throughout this book. Stupid wild-goose chase. That was so pointless and stupid. And the necklace , does anyone understand its powers? Haha

So it makes her age faster if she wears it and travels between worlds all the time, but conveniently.... If she just takes it off, and puts it on later.... She'll wind up exactly the moment in time that she left? WTF? Talk about ZERO consequences. Especially when, the first 2 acts of the book deal with her anxiety over the fact that it isn't a magic mcguffin that's solves her problems.

The world building was really cool and unique, and it is a shame this is going to be written as a romance series. I think the world is there, and this could have made for a really good trilogy. (Sans love triangle though). If it had real consequences for Tish, and if Criminy would have had a character arc, along with other character development. Made the bad guy a little bit better and actually come up with a revolutionaries plot to overthrow the villan, all the why Tish is dealing with going back and forth, or getting stuck. Just something with consequences.
Instead we got the water down uninspired version. Sigh.

Is anyone going to read the next one?

[Gretchen]

Does anyone else have the impression that this was Anne Bishop fan fic at some point?

Just wondering...

[[deleted user]]

Ashton wrote: "Anja, yeah I see where you are going with that. However, I don't think this author consciously decided to make that metaphor. Maybe it crossed her mind at some point, but as soon as she realized he..."

I didn't know he was in sequels! : )

[Jordan]

Just got to this delightful section in the book.

After Letitia and Criminy have had impromptu sex against a tree in the woods, he hands her a handkerchief to clean herself up. She does, and then tries to hand the handkerchief back to him, to which he responds: "Just leave it on the ground, love," he said with a teasing grin. "That's going to make some lucky bludbunny very happy."

WHAT?! What does that even mean? Does that mean that, on top of blud, bludbunnies are keen on sexual juices? Is that implying that you made her bleed and that's why the bludbunnies are going to like the handkerchief? Is he making a (not funny) joke? Someone help me understand!

[Gunnhildur]

Jordan wrote: ""That's going to make some lucky bludbunny very happy."

WHAT?! What does that even mean?..."

Criminy had just killed the blud stag so he was covered in blood, that included his hands and he did use them to pleasure her. The handkerchief had the stag blood on it after she cleaned herself, hence the happy bludbunnies.

[[deleted user]]

Gunnhildur wrote: "Jordan wrote: ""That's going to make some lucky bludbunny very happy."

WHAT?! What does that even mean?..."

Criminy had just killed the blud stag so he was covered in blood, that included his han..."

Veronica in famed interview (paraphrasing): I want a bludbunny! I feel like my cat already wants to kill me. This way at least it'll be an honest relationship.

[Jordan]

Gunnhildur wrote: "Jordan wrote: ""That's going to make some lucky bludbunny very happy."

WHAT?! What does that even mean?..."

Criminy had just killed the blud stag so he was covered in blood, that included his han..."

Ahhhh. Okay, that makes sense. Thank you! I mean, I read that part about him killing the bludstag, obviously, but was so distracted by the fact that she used the handkerchief to clean her lady bits and then was instructed to drop it on the ground, that I didn't quite make the connection to the stag blud.

[Dave]

I'm gonna be the odd man out here, but It's the world building that keeps taking me out of this. I love cartoony steam punk atmosphere generally, but. . . if all the animals are predators, then they're all dead in a month! It takes hundreds of herbivores converting solar energy stored by plants into biomass to support one predator. Even if Vampire-ism magically draws massive magical energy from blood, it's stated that all these animals eat each other, so for them to still exist, math is backwards! Up is down, in is out, cold is hot, love is hate, confusion is certainty! I enjoy fantasy and romance, but Bloodbunnies multiplying by consuming eachother is gong to send me crawling back to Scifi.

[Heather]

Dave wrote: "I'm gonna be the odd man out here, but It's the world building that keeps taking me out of this. I love cartoony steam punk atmosphere generally, but. . . if all the animals are predators, then t..."

You are not wrong. The whole bludanimals are pretty silly. I like the idea of the world, but there are so many things that just don't make sense. I know people had a problem with unexplained things in the Kate Daniels, but this one made even less sense to me, honestly. I really liked the caravan, but that was about it. The whole book felt sloppy. The more I read it, the less I liked it.

[Katie]

The bludanimals thing is kind of silly, but I'm willing to kind of overlook it because I find the idea of the cities and the way that was set up, the different behavior people display (like the way they dress), and the feeling that the world was actually a very dangerous place to have been really well done.

[[deleted user]]

Katie wrote: "The bludanimals thing is kind of silly, but I'm willing to kind of overlook it because I find the idea of the cities and the way that was set up, the different behavior people display (like the way..."

I agree with Katie.

[Linnea]

I'm 20 % in and I'm lemming this book. There's just nothing in it that hooks me, unlike Kiss of Steel. I don't care about Tish, Criminy is annoying and I just can't buy into all the ridiculous bludanimals. That is not a sustainable ecosystem!(I suppose the bludbunnies are meant to be cute...? They just made me groan everytime they turned up or were mentioned.)

[Susan]

I finished reading this this morning. I quite liked it as a whole, mainly because I found the world fascinating. The relationship between Tish and Criminy bothered me, though not as much as in previous books (like the cat aliens or A Discovery of Witches), which I think is because I was distracted by the world building. Though I thought the whole swimming in the sea/ghost monster/island/back again business was a bit pointless.

When I started reading the book Criminy's language immediately reminder me of Spike, so it was interest to read on here that it was inspired by him.

No matter how sexy the author tried to make Criminy, as soon as she started talking about the black scaled clawed hands it was all over. Icky.

Also, she could have worried more about Mr Surly and leaving him behind while she is off and about another world. As a rescue cat he has already been abandoned once. As the story went on he sort of just became an example of her 'normal, boring' life in our world. In the end she seems to be having the best of both worlds, but what happens when her grandmother passes away and she maybe wants to go back to Sang forever? Where will Mr Surly go? That part of the story really bothered me.