Reading the Chunksters discussion
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09/29 Infinite Jest by D.F. Wallace, Week 1
Let the fun begin! Great first post, Zulfiya. Your detailed questions are always so helpful to me in thinking about what I've read, so I appreciate you taking the time to come up with great ones.1. The wacky naming of the years was certainly jarring, yet comical. Of course they make it more confusing to figure out when things take place relative to each other. The non-numerical years tells us we are in the future, at some point where corporations have taken over something so universal as what year it is. Yet Serena Williams' mention lets the reader know that we are not too far ahead in the future (unless, that is, she has been somehow preserved to live well beyond our current normal lifespan, in which case we are farther in the future than I assume).
2. Well, I guess I find myself most relatable is Erdedy. Not in the aspect of repeatedly waiting for deliveries of weed and his subsequent days of getting to high as to make him sick. But more in the aspect of over thinking and worrying about the smallest things - such as the when he thought about whether to change the answer on his answering machine or not. Also, his notice of the small bug on the shelving system was comical and something I could see myself doing.
Anyway, Erdedy was my first instinctual answer to this question, but I would have to mull that over more as I think of all the other characters.
3. Yeah, the mold. I have no clue to the answer to this question. It was such a short glimpse of Hal's past, it seemed odd. But of course I'm sure it means something...
4. LOVED the entire Erdedy episode. I was mesmerized by the long sentences, paragraphs, like I couldn't stop reading and come up for air until I was done reading the entire episode. I felt myself reading faster and faster, too, as if I was in his mind and thinking through everything myself. Also loved the reference to the small bug popping in and out of the shelving, mimicking Erdedy himself almost. There is a line I will need to look up in reference to this that I liked.
End post Part I. :)
Yes, I need to sleep as well but am v. excited about reading your thoughts and sharing tomorrow! Z, I am glad to hear the closing is coming along!
Man there is so much to talk about after just 62 pages!! This discussion is going to end up being as long as the novel :)1. I think the book is set in kind of an alternate universe -- I don't think it's too far in the future, but events in the 20th century had progressed differently than they did in our reality, thus resulting in a world that seems more science-fictional to us.
2. I think my gut reaction of which character I identify with most would have to be Orin. Mostly because, and I hate to admit this, but I also have a set of glasses that are reserved for trapping bugs :D (not cockroaches, thankfully I have never had them)...I don't let them asphyxiate, though, I just trap them until I have time to find a shoe. But I definitely won't drink out of those glasses.
(side note: I find it hard to believe that cockroaches would asphyxiate in a few days. Just a nitpick, but I may have to research that a little - maybe I'm wrong.)
I also like Orin because he seems to have a personality that does not really fit in with our preconceptions of a pro football player. I have to say, though, that I am dismayed at the way he treats the women he sleeps with. It seems strange that he would be a misogynist when he grew up with such a strong mother figure...then again, I'm 100% sure there are aspects of the family dynamics that we have yet to learn.
3. Hal eating the mold...yeah, what the heck is up with Hal in general?? What was happening to him in that very first scene? Why does Himself think that Hal can't speak? Hal seems perfectly articulate in other scenes so I can't imagine what could be going on with him.
7. I think the biggest challenge for me so far has been the jumps in scene - I have found that I often have to reread the first few paragraphs of a scene in order to orient myself in the setting and characters.
I have been having a blast with the "subsidized" year names. I love to put together little puzzles like that as I read, and in my notebook I've got a timeline of the years chronologically, and a summary of what happens in each year.
There were several scenes that resonated with me, including the Erdedy scene, which was a powerful portrait of addiction. I used to smoke (tobacco) so I am very familiar with all of those little rationalizations that an addict makes when trying to quit. Also, the desire to hide what you're doing. Scary stuff.
I'm interested to find out more about the woman who was bringing the weed to Eredy -- her dealer in Allston gets mentioned a few more times and I feel sure her identity will be revealed. And, speaking of the character connections, did anybody notice that Hal mentions Don Gately in the first scene, after his breakdown at the University? He says something about Don Gately helping to "dig up his father's head". (?)
I was unexpectedly moved at the end of the "interview" between young Hal and his father. That scene was very much laugh-out-loud funny, and then at the end it turns out to be a desperate attempt of the father to connect with his son. There seem to be indications that Himself is maybe not all there, mentally.
The scene where Hal and Mario discussed their parents in their dorm room was touching as well.
Did anyone have any trouble with the infamous "Wardine" section? I think if it had been longer I may have struggled, but it was only a couple of pages and I found it pretty easy. I'm sure there will be more later though.
Also, how about the Saudi Medical Attache? What has happened to him and what was on the video he's watching?
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OK, I think that's all I have to say for now :) If anyone is interested in seeing some of the notes I took, I would be glad to share them.. Note that those notes are only for the first section, so no worries about spoilers :)
Lastly, there is a footnote on page 64, right at the start of the next section, that I am dying to discuss. The Filmography? I may have to start a thread to talk about it, I don't know if I can wait until next week :) Maybe we could have a general "Footnote discussion" thread :)
Oh, one more question for the group: It seems like Wallace has several acronyms that may or may not have other meanings? For example, O.N.A.N. is obviously a biblical reference, probably meant to be humorous in this context...E.T.A. also means "Estimated Time of Arrival"...do you think there is any significance behind these?
I read the different sections without even trying to make connections, because I thought it would just confuse me more. Because of that, I imagine I will want to read it over again after I finish!The cockroaches and the addiction scene are probably what struck me most. The cockroaches - I agree with John, they surely wouldn't asphyxiate? They must need so little air - wouldn't it be hard to make a truly airtight seal between the glass and the floor? But maybe DFW tried it, and found it worked...
Also, I'm not familiar with American cockroaches, but like Orin, I can live with the little brown kind, but not the huge black monsters that I've encountered in Asia. In Orin's position, there's no way I'd leave them in my bathroom, covered by glass or not. I might knock a glass over myself by accident when half-asleep.
I wouldn't squish them either - like Orin, I once tried, and you cannot do it with a shoe - these things are armoured - it takes something like a hammer, and you end up damaging your home - so I'd just do what I do with spiders in my bathroom, i.e. cover them with the glass, find a piece of card, slip it under the glass, carry them to the window, throw them out and close the window, fast.
I didn't intend to write a whole post about cockroaches, so maybe I should look at the questions...
1. How did I know it was not our universe ... I wondered as soon as I saw the references to e-notes and TPs and other technology we don't have, but I wasn't sure until a little later. I don't remember what made me sure.
2. I think I related to the addict best, maybe just because we were so deep inside his head. I haven't yet seen a female character I could relate to.
3. It crossed my mind that maybe the mould eventually gave Hal the speech problem he has in the first scene - but that would be way too simple!
4. We're back to cockroaches.
5. Definitely back to cockroaches. And I must challenge the assumption that anyone who's afraid of the huge flying beasts, while not being afraid of the regular household cockroach, is katsaridaphobic...
6. I do some writing myself and I would guess those 'coincidences' of repeated themes are (initially at least) neither deliberate nor accidental, but unconscious. Then the writer realises they're there, and has a choice about what to do with them.
7. What I found most challenging was the jumps in time combined with the shifts in narrative voice. Plus, of course, the cockroaches ;-)
John wrote: "Did anyone have any trouble with the infamous "Wardine" section? I think if it had been longer I may have struggled, but it was only a couple of pages and I found it pretty easy. I'm sure there will be more later though."Trying to read the Wardine section instantly reminded me of the difficulty I had while reading the post-apocalyptic section of Cloud Atlas. It was pretty tough to get used to, but I was finally able to get into the flow of the language. For this section, I definitely had to diagram who was related to which other characters and so on.
5. Orin's way of dealing with the cockroaches seemed very OCD to me. He had a method that worked and did not deviate from it. Along with him having to transport the dead roaches to a separate dumpster down the road, which sounds extreme to me.John - your suggestion that it would take a long time to asphyxiate a roach under a cup does make sense. But these ARE very large roaches which were described... :)
Zulfiya - good observation on the way the roaches die and the way the Canadian was accidentally suffocated. I didn't catch that. Now I will keeping an eye out for other such possible incidents.
I read Metamorphosis so very long ago, so I did not think to compare the two. If I remember correctly, the main character who turns into a roach is treated so very differently because of what he appears to be on the outside, even though he is the same person on the inside. So, I wonder if there is some underlying similar theme taking place in IJ.
And using this possible theme as a segue to John's questions:
What was happening to him in that very first scene? Why does Himself think that Hal can't speak? Hal seems perfectly articulate in other scenes so I can't imagine what could be going on with him.
As far as the first scene goes, it appears that Hal can think and articulate well inside his own head. To himself (Hal, not his dad), he is the same person he has always been. Yet to others, he appeared unlike a normal person. Monstrous, even, since the administrators were completely horrified by his body movements and sounds. Zulfiya's mention of Metamorphosis seems to go hand-in-hand with this first scene.
But as to his "interview" with his disguised father, I can't figure that one out since Hal was what, around 12 years old or so at that time? But in conversations between Hal and Mario, Hal does seem to speak out loud, so I puzzled too.
John - good catch on the Don Gately being mentioned in the first section. I will have to go back and reread this section.Also, I wasn't keeping a list of the characters until I went back to review what I had read in preparation for this week's discussion and realized I couldn't remember everyone. So then I went back through and started writing down all the characters, but I clearly missed a bunch after looking at John's notes!
Rosemary wrote: "But maybe DFW tried it, and found it worked..."Ewww. Interesting thought...
Wow, for someone who reads mainly older classics, this is going to be a challenging read for me. I'm glad to be reading it with a group of obviously very detailed and insightful readers.I almost gave up at the beginning but I'm pushing through. I really struggled with understanding what was going on, the connections of the different narratives, trying to get the characters straight, the shifts in time, etc. etc. The rest of you have noticed so much that I either missed or that confused me. :-Z
I haven't quite finished the section yet, but so far the scene with Erdedy was the most powerful and I must say, surprisingly, I really enjoyed the Wardine section. I didn't have problems with it at all (finally something in this book that was easy!)
I was wondering as I was reading it if DFW was emphasizing lack of, or difficulty with, communication ....??? There were a few instances of either not understanding or misunderstanding or not understanding the complete situation. Just a thought ......
And John, thank you sooo much for your notes. Probably the biggest struggle for me will be the fact that I don't have the time to take to write notes, re-read, etc. so your notes will be so helpful!
Okay, I'm off to finish this section!
Rosemary wrote: "I haven't yet seen a female character I could relate to."I was a little concerned at this as well - I think Wardine (and Wardine's friend who was narrating) are the only females we've met properly. We have heard of a few others but not to the point where they are full-fledged "characters". Hopefully there is some development here, I'm afraid a thousand-page sausagefest would get annoying :D
John wrote: "For example, O.N.A.N. is obviously a biblical reference, probably meant to be humorous in this context"O.N.A.N. is definitely biblical, but Wallace also mentions that Erdedy used the petroleum jelly when he was pleasing himself manually.
As for the mold and the suffocating roaches and a poor Canadian who died because he was gagged and his mucous clogged his nostrils, I do think these are very sickening episodes, but they are also inventively sickening, if it makes any sense. Wallace is not using banal, cliched tropes as it is often used in horror fiction; his episodes are very, very original, sometimes ad nauseam. the pun is intended.
Rosemary wrote: "It crossed my mind that maybe the mould eventually gave Hal the speech problem he has in the first scene - but that would be way too simple!..."
Do you remember how hal discussed how much/little we remember and how differently we remember things. This meditation on memory and him eating mold is an incision that tears the episode with the admission into two parts. Maybe,
this is exactly the evidence that we remember certain things and do not remember others.
I hope eventually the gap would be filled in and why his seemingly very coherent and very intelligent answer provoked a reaction we did not expect, or it might be left as an open to interpretation episode.
Zulfiya wrote: "John wrote: "For example, O.N.A.N. is obviously a biblical reference, probably meant to be humorous in this context"O.N.A.N. is definitely biblical, but Wallace also mentions that Erdedy used the petroleum jelly when he was pleasing himself manually. "
I need an explanation here. I don't get the biblical reference at all (the bible being a weak point with me), nor what this has to do with petroleum jelly. Sorry if this is obvious to others.
Linda wrote: "LOVED the entire Erdedy episode. I was mesmerized by the long sentences, paragraphs, like I couldn't stop reading and come up for air until I was done reading the entire episode. I felt myself reading faster and faster, too, as if I was in his mind and thinking through everything myself. Also loved the reference to the small bug popping in and out of the shelving, mimicking Erdedy himself almost. There is a line I will need to look up in reference to this that I liked. ..."
I also loved this episode. The stream of consciousness is ideal for that episode. We learn about the most inner fears and frustrations, the most intimate hopes and plans. The incessant long sentences created that sickening, absolutely unreal feeling of a man trapped in his addiction.
It is also a tribute to all those people who are trying to fight their addiction (s) and lose battle after battle again and again. A very powerful foray into the mind of an addict.
Zulfiya wrote: "I do think these are very sickening episodes, but they are also inventively sickening, if it makes any sense. Wallace is not using banal, cliched tropes as it is often used in horror fiction."Do you guys find the tone of the book so far to be more on the comedy side, or a dark/dramatic side? It seems kind of hard to pin down.
A fun way that I have been thinking about it is "who would make the movie adaptation?" I think in this case Charlie Kaufmann and Spike Jonze (the team behind Being John Malkovitch) would be a great choice. It's very funny but you often don't know if you should laugh or be horrified.
A good second choice would probably be the guy who directed Donnie Darko (can't think of his name atm).
John wrote: "A fun way that I have been thinking about it is "who would make the movie adaptation?" Fragmented stories like this one usually translate very well into movies where you can easily change scenes. Taking into account the complexities of the novel, it might be only an art-house movie :-)
Hi everyone! The most challenging part for me is just trying to see how everything fits. I don't think we have enough information to start making connections, yet, but that isn't stopping my brain.
As per the first scene, they mention that Hal is one month from graduating at ETA and it is Year of the Glad...only chapter of that year. The rest are most Y.D.A.D., which I am taking to be probably the year before he graduates. That being said, I am assuming that something happens to Hal in that year that makes him seem so monstrous to the university admissions committee and messes with his personal communications.
AS per funny scenes, I read my husband the part about Don Gately and the toothbrushes (and subsequent Xanax), and I think he's still laughing about it.
I'm actually finding myself really drawn to this books. Wallace's ability to wholly master such diverse scenes and characters is really incredible. Like lots of other people here, Erdedy and Orin's scenes were so powerful. With Erdedy, he really captured the mindset of an addict and tries to help his reader get into that mindset as well by changing his writing style to speed up your thoughts. Orin's scene with descriptions of OCD and irrational fears (ok, maybe not SO irrational if the cockroaches are that big) are just really spot-on.
Overall, I am quite enjoying the book, though I am finding it isn't an "easy" read persay. I am reading in much smaller chunks than I normally do and have to take a reading break and either do something else or pick up a different book. Maybe my brain is working too hard with so many different scenes and characters? Anyone else having that problem with this book?
Kaycie wrote: "Overall, I am quite enjoying the book, though I am finding it isn't an "easy" read persay. I am reading in much smaller chunks than I normally do and have to take a reading break and either do something else or pick up a different book. Maybe my brain is working too hard with so many different scenes and characters? Anyone else having that problem with this book? "This is how I read it, and I also shared some episodes with my husband. :-)
Kaycie wrote: "As per the first scene, they mention that Hal is one month from graduating at ETA and it is Year of the Glad...only chapter of that year. The rest are most Y.D.A.D., which I am taking to be probably the year before he graduates. That being said, I am assuming that something happens to Hal in that year that makes him seem so monstrous to the university admissions committee and messes with his personal communications."Those were my exact thoughts, Kaycie. Although the part where Hal's father doesn't seem to hear what Hal is saying and Hal is much younger in that scene, so that doesn't really fit. John mentioned that perhaps something is actually wrong with Hal's father, then, which would fit into your thoughts of something occurring during the Y.O.D.U. to really mess up Hal.
I've found most of what I've read pretty comedic, although I do realize a lot of the underlying themes are quite sad and disturbing. The scene with the medical attache was both funny, to an extent, such as the dinner tray that fit onto his head so he didn't have to look down from the viewing monitor, but this scene was also very depressing, again the tray so he didn't have to look down, and when he isn't able to take care of himself while his wife is away for the evening.
The toothbrush scene was hilarious, and quite inventive. :D
Kaycie. Although the part where Hal's father doesn't seem to hear what Hal is saying and Hal is much younger in that scene, so that doesn't really fit. John mentioned that perhaps something is actually wrong with Hal's father, then, which would fit into your thoughts of something occurring during the Y.O.D.U. to really mess up Hal.Yes, this did mess with me for a bit, but I ended up just thinking that maybe Hal has a speech problem when he gets anxious or upset, and something that happens in the Y.D.A.U (whoops, abbreviated this wrong above!) that makes it exponentially worse to where he can't really communicate at all anymore...or something to that effect. Though there is the good point that his dad doesn't hear him in that scene and we only know from in his head that he is talking (or trying to talk). It does seem like he's fine communicating with Mario, though. I must have also missed John's comment. This thread has been so popular, its difficult to keep up, let alone get all of my thoughts down.
I've found most of what I've read pretty comedic, although I do realize a lot of the underlying themes are quite sad and disturbing.
I agree completely!!! Wallace is painting these really quite disturbing scenes (and most of them are this way!) in a humorous light. It serves to distance us from the horror as well.
Wow! What an awesome discussion! I'm on page 35, so I haven't quite finished the first section yet. It takes me a lot longer to read too. Even though I haven't finished, I couldn't wait and I read through everyone's comments.
I read this YA book once called Stuck in Neutral. It's told from the POV of a boy with cerebral palsy. He's very intelligent and capable, but unable to communicate with anyone. Hal, at the beginning, reminded me of that. Someone who is trying to communicate, but can't.
I like your theory Kaycie. I'm curious about what happened to Hal too.
When I've finished the whole section, I'll come back in and dive deeper. This is a wonky book but I'm enjoying it so far. It's different and that's refreshing.
Linda wrote: "I need an explanation here. I don't get the biblical reference at all (the bible being a weak point with me), nor what this has to do with petroleum jelly. Sorry if this is obvious to others. "Onan was a guy in the Bible who was guilty of the sin of "spilling his seed upon the ground"...[insert juvenile giggle] :)
Linda wrote: "I need an explanation here. I don't get the biblical reference at all (the bible being a weak point with me), nor what this has to do with petroleum jelly. Sorry if this is obvious to others. "
As a secular person, I am familiar with spiritual books ONLY as works of fiction, so hopefully I am not offending anyone here, and my interpretation will be accurate in the biblical sense.
As far as I remember, Onan was one of minor characters in the Bible who preferred to have uncompleted sexual acts not to sire children. As a result, he is considered as the one who wasted his seed. His name is often synonymous with masturbation.
I am not at home now, so I do not remember correctly, but it was Erdedy who was talking about petroleum jelly and earlier he was also talking about masturbation. So I would say that he was using it as a lubricant.
I'll have to page through this part of the novel when I get home tonight to make sure I am not twisting the facts around the way I want.
Thanks for the explanations John and Zulfiya!
John, we were typing at the same time :-)
Paula wrote: "The Mold: That's a true mystery and there's a lot of speculation about it because of the immediately preceding paragraph: "I cannot make myself understood, now. Call it something I ate.""Ooh - was Rosemary onto something here?...
Rosemary: 3. It crossed my mind that maybe the mould eventually gave Hal the speech problem he has in the first scene - but that would be way too simple!
Paula, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I can't help but be concerned that your comments are a little leading as someone who has already read the book?I totally understand though -- I had the exact same problem when we discussed Wind Up bird Chronicle: as Zulfiya said to me then, "you do know the answers to the questions, but the questions themselves are spoilers of sorts:-)"
I haven't finished the first section yet but will join in as soon as I'm done. At least initially, Hal seems autistic to me (or Asperger's) because he has trouble communicating but he seems super smart and excels at his activity of choice - in this case tennis. As a spectrum mom, I can jump right on board with Hal - liked him right away and can relate to his pov.Loved the Erdedy episode too. Spot on to the internal rantings of an addict - perfection.
I am surprised at how much I'm loving this book so far! I was/still am a bit intimidated, but it's laugh out loud funny and brilliantly clever.
Paula wrote: "Topic: Humor vs. Pathos. "I would reword it, and for me the more precise duality of the tone and modality of the novel is Euphoria vs. Sadness, and it is not only about humor or depression. The whole text per se is the reflection of the mentality of an addict - high and euphoric and cold-turkeyed and depressed. Some episodes are very bleak and sad, and some are Pantagruelianly, unbelievably funny.
Kristen wrote: " At least initially, Hal seems autistic to me (or Asperger's) because he has trouble communicating but he seems super smart and excels at his activity of choice - in this case tennis"That was my initial interpretation, too. Even if this interpretation is wrong, it is always nice to have one at hand. Eventually, it is either rejected or confirmed; thus, when a reader is looking for clues to confirm or reject the hypothesis, his or her search is keener because one at least tentatively knows what one is looking for.
Zulfiya wrote: "Pantagruelianly"Thanks, Zulfiya. My best use of Google today.
[edited to remove spoiler]
Linda wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "Pantagruelianly"Thanks, Zulfiya. My best use of Google today."
My husband likes wearing his personolized T-shirt that reads, 'Google me!' :-) I think I am going to order the same despite the fact that I am a dress girl, not a T-shirt girl :-)
Zulfiya- I've been gone for awhile and upon seeing that the group's reading Infinite Jest, I had to come back! A buddy and I plan on start it around November 1st or so (better late than never, I say,) so this sounds perfect!!Question: have any of you read any of Wallace's short stories or essays, or will IJ be your first? I plan on reading Girl With Curious Hair, simply because it's been recommended and out of curiosity for his unique style. I also want to read Hamlet.
Gombert's description of her depression? Horrifying and, according to my daughter (who is a psychologist) absolutely spot on. Of course, DFW suffered terribly from depression and addiction.I think I missed this - can anyone give me a page number? I don't recall anyone called Gombert at all!
I think I missed this - can anyone give me a page number? I don't recall anyone called Gombert at all!I think thats actually in this next week's reading. Just got to it last night.
Kaycie wrote: "I think I missed this - can anyone give me a page number? I don't recall anyone called Gombert at all!I think thats actually in this next week's reading. Just got to it last night."
Cool - I was thinking I was really going to struggle, if I was forgetting whole sections already!
Rosemary wrote: "I think I missed this - can anyone give me a page number? I don't recall anyone called Gombert at all!"OK, I thought it was just me! I was flipping through pages last night trying to find this person... :/
I promise never to post without my book again :(.
Paula wrote: "No spoilers...it's just that my book has chapters listed. "But how do we know that one of the chapter headings doesn't appear AFTER the Year of Glad?
Paula, could you go back and edit your posts so that the information is in spoiler tags? Thank you!
Dustin wrote: "Have any of you read any of Wallace's short stories or essays, or will IJ be your first? I plan on reading Girl With Curious Hair, simply because it's been recommended and out of curiosity for his unique style. I also want to read Hamlet. "That is my first Wallace, but people say that his essays and short stories are more approachable than his magnum opus, but I am quite enjoying it.
Please everybody, hide spoilers :-) I often spoil myself, so I am not going to throw the first stone here, but try to make your comments spoiler free. At the same time some small spoilers are nice teasers:-)
Paula wrote: "Having trouble formatting for spoilers so I just went back and edited my posts by deleting info."Thanks! I've also edited my post to remove where I quoted the info.
Spoiler tags work like this, but without the spaces:
< spoiler>text goes here< /spoiler>
Paula, unfortunately it's kind of a sensitive thing: Even if you don't think you're spoiling something, an innocuous question can be leading to someone who has not read the book.Here are examples from your posts that you still have not deleted:
(view spoiler)
Regarding the first quote, where you say:
"although you could very well read the explanation and miss it - but I won't let you"
...I strongly hope you will refrain from this. Speaking for myself, if I am going to miss something, I would rather miss it than be led to it.
Hi everyone. I have deleted all my posts (I think). Let me know if I missed one. John, I think if you delete or hide the list of instances you just posted, that will help. Apologies to the group!
Paula wrote: "Hi everyone. I have deleted all my posts (I think). Let me know if I missed one. John, I think if you delete or hide the list of instances you just posted, that will help. Apologies to the group!"That's too bad because I actually found your posts helpful. I'm feeling a little lost and they gave me a little insight and direction. Perhaps those types of comments could be placed with the spoiler tag so people who want a completely fresh reading are happy, and those of us who would like some minor guidance can get it.
Cleo wrote: That's too bad because I actually found your posts helpful. I'm feeling a little lost... Hi Cleo! I appreciate that, but I don't want to spoil anyone's enjoyment of the book on their own terms. And it can become a bit of a minefield when trying to figure out what to post and what not to post. Especially because DFW deliberately designed the book to be full of subtle threads and teasers that he wanted the reader to dig up. Kind of like Joyce's Ulysses.
For example, when I used a certain term to describe Avril's behavior as stated in the chapter we read, that term was strictly my own. It is not a spoiler. I come from a large family of doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists, some of whom treat addiction and so, her behavior is not something I would have heard described as promiscuous. The sheer number of partners is over and beyond occasional love affairs.
So again, that was strictly my own terminology (based upon my own family environment) for the behavior, based upon the comments made by Hal's father in the chapter we read.
When I said I thought it was interesting that, in that conversation, Hal's father could converse with Hal, but then not at the end of the chapter, I meant only that. I thought it was weird and interesting. I thought it was interesting and strange the first time I read it and I still do. It wasn't meant to be a teaser. It was simply me saying "wow, that's interesting".
But I can certainly see why John would take these comments as teasers and spoilers because of some of my other comments and because I've read the book before. I appreciate it that he pointed it out to me.
So my dilemma is: what if I make a comment that I find something "interesting" just because I do? I can't control how my comment will be interpreted. So, until I figure out a better way to express it, I'm going to read along with you guys and get a feel for the conversation instead of jumping in all over it.
My bigger dilemma is this: there's a lot in this book that I just don't understand and haven't figured out. So, when we get to that part of the reading, what happens if I ask a question like "what do you guys think it meant when Tom Cruise saw purple chickens crossing the road in Manchuria?" Will that be taken as a leading question, when in reality I would honestly like to know what you guys think because I honestly don't know? Or, will it be taken as, "if Paula doesn't know the answer, that means the question doesn't get answered in the book, so the fun of wondering about that episode is ruined for me".
You see where this could go.(P.S., there are no purple chickens, Tom Cruise or Manchuria in the book :)).
Again, I have to figure it out and in the meantime, I want to put everyone else's experience of the book in front of my own. I don't want to ruin the enjoyment of it. And I don't want the entire posting thread to be full of conversations about my faux pas (I apologize again) instead of the book itself.
Enjoy!
Paula, do not get discouraged. Your posts were wonderful, and spoilers are hard to avoid when you are using just notes, and the book is away when you are traveling. Please keep posting for other threads. We will need your quiet guidance.
Reading the Chunksters
Books mentioned in this topic
Girl With Curious Hair (other topics)Hamlet (other topics)
Stuck in Neutral (other topics)
The Metamorphosis (other topics)
There might be challenges and difficulties during this long reading adventure, so let's support each other and do not give way to despair because there are many characters, futuristic world, numerous locations, diverse dictums and discourses and different narrative perspectives as well as different time frames.
I have mixed feeling about the beginning. The introduction by Dave Eggers inspired me so much, and the first part was relatively easy to follow, but then the the confusion starts, but if one perseveres, the gates of the next labyrinths are visible, and if one decides to go with the flow of the novel, the voices of its different characters become more and more noticeable.
1. How do we learn that the events take place not in our universe. Is the evidence conclusive enough? How about Serena Williams? What does her presence tell us about her?
2. Wallace introduces several characters within these 62 pages. Whom did you find the most relatable?
3. Why is the episode with Hal eating mold significant or is it significant?
4. Are there any episodes that you find ironic or wholeheartedly funny?
5. Hal's brother Orin suffers from katsaridaphobia (fear of cockroaches). Is his way of dealing the big monsters from the sewer sad, ingenious, pathetic, or indicative of something else?
Because I read the novella by Kafka The Metamorphosis a couple of weeks ago, I kept mentally alluding to this novella while I was reading about Orin's way of dealing with this big bugs. I wonder whether anyone else experienced the same literary duality?
6. Have you noticed how some of the themes are repeated and mentioned in different plot lines? E.g. Hal and his family members suffering from different disorders and afflictions, the pervasive theme of drugs, tennis, and even suffocation of the monstrous cockroaches and Gately's unintentional victim. Is it deliberate or occidental?
7. What did you find the most challenging: the shifting narrative voice, literary fragmentation, specific terminology, multiple narrative lines?
As the regular participants know, it is not required to answer these questions. Please do if you find them provocative enough (in the meaning the ones that actually elicit a verbal response:-)). Their main purpose is to help the group focus more on the subject matter and not leave the comments, 'I liked everything' or 'I am confused' or 'I enjoyed it'. I am wholeheartedly a supporter of freedom of expression, but more detailed posts make it easier to relate and respond.
P.S. I am also copying and pasting the following lines in all the discussions I moderate :-)
We are very close to the date of the official closing, and we are transitioning between the two houses. It is a little bit of a hassle, but I am persevering with my reading projects. I might be slow responding or commenting, but I am still with you and enjoy reading all your comments.
It will not last long, and I hope in two-three weeks things will get back to normal.
Ready, steady, go! Let the reading fun begin!