Reading the Chunksters discussion
Archived 2015 Group Reads
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09/29 Infinite Jest by D.F. Wallace, Week 1
Ami wrote: "I mentioned in an earlier post about a supposed obsession with suffocation so far, but I'm also noticing a trend with heads too. Wallace makes it a point to discuss the size of people's heads, digg..."Oh, dear. They were having their "head shrunk". That was a very subtle joke to slip in there. That's a lot of head related comments. I didn't connect them all together.
Also, Orin had an "oversized left arm and big left leg".
John wrote: "Sarah wrote: " Also, in this scene Himself is saying he's 14, Hal says he's 11 and then later on he says he's 10. "This confused me at first too -- I had to reread it. Himself says Hal is 14, eit..."
Thanks John. I never saw the "almost".
Sarah wrote: "Ami wrote: "I mentioned in an earlier post about a supposed obsession with suffocation so far, but I'm also noticing a trend with heads too. Wallace makes it a point to discuss the size of people's..."Well, isn't that funny too... The shaman are known to shrink heads, but these two are increasing the size of theirs. I'm not able to connect them all together either, yet, but the occurrence of the descriptions (heads) happens often enough...I think?
Hilarious..."Head shrunk...Head shrink!"
It does seem like way too many references for it to be a coincidence.
Sarah - Thanks for your comments about depression. I highlighted that part in the book because I related. Those who have never experienced a true depression aren't able to describe it. How you talked about why going to sleep is horrible, knowing you have to wake up and start again- so true.
I'm puzzled by the comments on Serena Williams. I've seen Venus mentioned, but not Serena. Did I miss it?
Sarah I think we must have mixed the two up at some point. Venus is correct.
Thanks. I was looking everywhere for Serena. :)
Sarah wrote: "It does seem like way too many references for it to be a coincidence."There's also a section where Hal discusses digging up my father's head with Donald Gately (17)...This is thought-provoking because of a possible Hamlet tie-in. Prince Hamlet can also be found speaking to a skull belonging to his dead father's court jester; Yorick, at the beginning of the play. Prince Hamlet speaks fondly of Yorick...
Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy; he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! My gorge rises at it. Here hung those lips that I have kissed I know not how oft. Where be your gibes now? Your gambols? Your songs? Your flashes of merriment, that were wont to set the table on a roar? (Hamlet, V.i)
We find him reminiscing about the wonderful times he spent with Yorick in this sequence. Perhaps Hal is wanting to do the same and look back up the fond memories with his father.
I do not think it is a coincidence that the title for this novel was also derived from the same section. Although Prince Hamlet refers to Yorick as an infinite jest, there is a very melancholic undertone to his speech and the same can be said about the novel...Full of laughs while having deep rooted undertones of immense sadness.
I'm really interest in finding out what Hal said (or better yet, what they heard) to the Deans in the first section Year of Glad. They compared his speech to that of an animal. A dying animal.. I'm still turning this part over in my mind.Also in Year of Glad. "a tired Cuban orderly who addresses me as jou — who will, looking down in the middle of some kind of bustled task, catch what he sees as my eye and ask So yo then man what's your story?" ...not catches my eyes but what HE sees as my eyes..Interesting..
So i'm guessing all of what we are reading after the year of Glad is in the past, as told by Hal. This would be including the footnotes?
Mekki wrote: "So i'm guessing all of what we are reading after the year of Glad is in the past, as told by Hal. This would be including the footnotes? "Provocateur! We already had a very turbulent discussion whether it is a spoiler or not to comment on the title - The Year of Glad ... and now you with your interpretation.
As for the quotation, it might be a false lead or a solid lead. Right now, I am definitely clueless as I think many are.
Speculation is, on the other hand, is the most exciting part of reading, IMHO.
Mekki, the "what he sees as my eye" was a good catch. I missed that.
Mekki wrote: "I'm really interest in finding out what Hal said (or better yet, what they heard) to the Deans in the first section Year of Glad. They compared his speech to that of an animal. A dying animal.. I'm..."Mekki, I am under the same impression with you about the sections we have read; other than YOG (so far), taking place in the past (as in it takes place in a future time period, but has already taken place before YOG). I thought The story was being told through Hal's eyes as well, but missed the inference (potential) in the quote. I've been keeping track, having made a list of the available dates, and it "could" make sense..
I also assumed that the Year of Glad was the present as well, only because it's the only section written in the present tense? Unless I'm mistaken?It's also one of the few sections written in first-person, along with the Wardine section and the section about nightmares on page 61.
Mekki wrote: "and ask So yo then man what's your story?"...So i'm guessing all of what we are reading after the year of Glad is in the past, as told by Hal."
Yes, I did notice that "what's your story" line upon the first reading, and took it to mean that the rest of the book was what has happened to Hal up until that point. I'm glad you brought this up - there has been so much to discuss in this week's reading, it's hard to mention everything!
Sarah wrote: "Mekki, the "what he sees as my eye" was a good catch. I missed that."I missed that too. I wonder what he that means by that. Hal doesn't say that he is looking AT his eyes, or "catches his eye". Looking into someone's eyes is like looking into that person's inner self. Are Hal's eyes not really serving this purpose for him? When someone looks into Hal's eyes, maybe that is not the way to his inner being. We know Hal is a wordsmith, perhaps the window to his inner being is his mouth, or ears, instead? I don't know, I'm just typing what is coming to my mind right now and I may be totally off the mark here....
Web wrote: "What "forced" me to stay committed to reading it through the first two hundred pages (per Infinite Summer's advice found here --> http://infinitesummer.org/archives/215 )"Thanks Web. I'll give it a chance by reading to page 200 as suggested in that link.
Linda wrote: "Ami wrote: "After Hal was taken to the emergency room, he tells us he will be held for as long as he does not answer any questions, and then, when he does finally respond, he ends up finally sedate..."As I mentioned earlier, this quote continues to resonate with me...I think it sheds light on the aspect of time (past, present and future). The "inversion of time" represents having to move backwards in time to move forward, similar to the manner in which the book is supposedly written. We are reading about the events leading up to Hal's current sedated state in the ER and then moving forward from that point on, I feel.
While reviewing some passages, I noticed that the envelope the medical attache receives with the unlabeled video has written on it "Happy Anniversary!". The day he gets this envelope is April 1st. He says he knows it has a different meaning from "Happy Birthday", and his birthday is on April 2nd. So now I wonder what of significance happened on April 1st? Or was the envelope actually meant for the wife to open since she usually sorted the mail for the medical attache?
Great catch Linda!I personally would guess it was meant for him; even if his wife had opened and watched it, eventually he would have come into the room and seen the screen anyway.
Rosemary wrote: "[spoilers removed]"Rosemary, I was thinking the same thing...
But April 1 is also the date of the interview between Hal and his father - so I think maybe there could be a wider significance? It's too specific to be a coincidence.
John wrote: "But April 1 is also the date of the interview between Hal and his father - so I think maybe there could be a wider significance? It's too specific to be a coincidence."True, John. There probably is a bigger significance to this date. Rosemary's suggestion was the first thing I had thought of at the time. I'm not flipping ahead to look for more "April 1" dates, but now I'm certainly on the lookout for them as I read.
If you're making notes on the dates of each chapter included in this first week's reading, you'll notice quite a few chapters/events take place on April 1, or leading to it (I think)-There seems to be little enough consistency in it.
Maybe its just a joke. April 1st is April fools day in america. DFW is just fooling around :PMaybe.
Mekki wrote: "Maybe its just a joke. April 1st is April fools day in america. DFW is just fooling around :PMaybe."
:) I had thought of that, especially given the disguise the father wears during the conversation with Hal.
So many things to think about!
Mekki wrote: "Maybe its just a joke. April 1st is April fools day in america. DFW is just fooling around :PMaybe."
I would only disagree because it's too obvious. I get this sick feeling, DFW wants me to work for it...A little?
Jumping in a little late here. I just finished the first weeks reading and all your great comments. I'm hoping to catch up to the group in the next week or so and participate in the threads.
Right, I've read the first 60 pages in my journey to catch everyone up. I'll first answer the questions and then read what everyone else has put down. I don't want my first impressions to be coloured by others replies. I'll probably comment again once I've done.1. No clue - that's not something I've picked up on yet.
2. I didn't really relate to any of the characters as they currently stand. At the moment they are just character in a book. I have yet to lose myself in the world - I think the peculiar nature of the writing creates a distance which makes it difficult to forget it's fiction.
3. I was thinking about this while I read it. Is it meant to be some sort of forshadowing of Hal taking something so horrific and disgusting inside himself willingly? Years later he has some sort of mental issue(?) which stops him from speaking with others even if he wants to. People who listen to him have the same sort of reaction that everyone did to the mold.(mould!)
4. I found most of it amusing in a black humour sort of way. Mostly the conversations centered around Hal.
5. Hmmm, that's the way I deal with them too...
6. Yes I did but I expect that in a novel. Books have themes and I often see them repeated over and over. So far, nothing unusual to me about it.
7. Definitely the language - I don't have a dictionary on me and several times I just felt lost. In the end I decided that any particularly difficult passages were obviously meant to be that way and it didn't matter if I wasn't following every word.
Linda wrote: "The wacky naming of the years was certainly jarring, yet comical. Of course they make it more confusing to figure out when things take place relative to each other. The non-numerical years tells us we are in the future, at some point where corporations have taken over something so universal as what year it is."Oh is that what it was all about? I thought it was just the characters giving descriptive names just the same way I might say 'that was the of drunken parties; that was the year of std clinic visits' and so on.
Linda wrote: " Also, his notice of the small bug on the shelving system was comical and something I could see myself doing."I saw the bug as representative of himself at that point in time. So much so that I wondered if it actually existed or was only in his imagination.
John wrote: "What the heck is up with Hal in general?? What was happening to him in that very first scene? Why does Himself think that Hal can't speak? Hal seems perfectly articulate in other scenes so I can't imagine what could be going on with him...."I don't think he can speak, not at that point in time anyway. His mind can articulate but when he tries it just comes out as animalistic grunts.
I was also interested in that section with his father/the conversationalist. How much of what he seemed to be saying was real? Was it another conversation that only existed in his head while his father tried unsuccessfully to communicate?
John wrote: "Also, how about the Saudi Medical Attache? What has happened to him and what was on the video he's watching?"I assumed he's watching the movie which is so compelling people can't stop watching it that the book blurb talks about. Not sure how he got it though.
John wrote: OK, I think that's all I have to say for now :) If anyone is interested in seeing some of the notes I took, I would be glad to share them.. Note that those notes are only for the first section, so no worries about spoilers :)"Great Summary!
John wrote: I'm afraid a thousand-page sausagefest would get annoying :D I'm currently listening to 'On the Road' and, yes, it does.
At least it's not 1000 pages though :-)
Zulfiya wrote: "John wrote: ""The Mold: That's a true mystery and there's a lot of speculation about it because of the immediately preceding paragraph: "I cannot make myself understood, now. Call it something I ate..."Oh yeah! I forgot about that comment. Ok, I think that strengths my thoughts about the mo(u)ld and Hal's little problem being connected in some sort of way.
Great idea and very specific questions, Zulfiya! I shall do my best to answer them.First though, I just wanted to say that I also found Dave Eggers Foreword most helpful, encouraging and ultimately beautiful! This piece deeply moved me!
1. How do we learn that the events take place not in our universe. Is the evidence conclusive enough? How about Serena Williams? What does her presence tell us about her?
I'm not sure that it's completely clear, especially the first few chapters, but I think there are subtle clues telling the reader this is some sort of future or alternate history world. The TP cartridges, for instance. But then Wallace throws in pop culture icons like Serena Williams to mess you up..
2. Wallace introduces several characters within these 62 pages. Whom did you find the most relatable?
In the opening 62 pages, I'd have to say that I found Hal most relateble. Later on though, I really related to Kate (was that her name, one of the depressed in the psych ward..?)
3. Why is the episode with Hal eating mold significant or is it significant?
Oh, I doubt it is insignificant, if only to develop his character. I have a feeling that there's something much deeper than that, though. I just don't know what yet..
4. Are there any episodes that you find ironic or wholeheartedly funny?
Nothing specific. Footnote #24 is pretty hilarious, and seems to mirror much of James' life. Plus the many connections therein.
5. Hal's brother Orin suffers from katsaridaphobia (fear of cockroaches). Is his way of dealing the big monsters from the sewer sad, ingenious, pathetic, or indicative of something else?
I think it kind of sad and fascinating, bordering on pathetic and ingenious, and there MUST be some deeper issues below the surface, IMO.
Because I read the novella by Kafka The Metamorphosis a couple of weeks ago, I kept mentally alluding to this novella while I was reading about Orin's way of dealing with this big bugs. I wonder whether anyone else experienced the same literary duality?
I haven't read it, so no. There certainly seem to be a plethora of literary allusions, though.
6. Have you noticed how some of the themes are repeated and mentioned in different plot lines? E.g. Hal and his family members suffering from different disorders and afflictions, the pervasive theme of drugs, tennis, and even suffocation of the monstrous cockroaches and Gately's unintentional victim. Is it deliberate or occidental?
Oh, it's deliberate, for sure!:)
7. What did you find the most challenging: the shifting narrative voice, literary fragmentation, specific terminology, multiple narrative lines?
All the terminology. The other things are fun!
As the regular participants know, it is not required to answer these questions. Please do if you find them provocative enough (in the meaning the ones that actually elicit a verbal response:-)). Their main purpose is to help the group focus more on the subject matter and not leave the comments, 'I liked everything' or 'I am confused' or 'I enjoyed it'. I am wholeheartedly a supporter of freedom of expression, but more detailed posts make it easier to relate and respond.
Linda wrote: "Let the fun begin! Great first post, Zulfiya. Your detailed questions are always so helpful to me in thinking about what I've read, so I appreciate you taking the time to come up with great ones...."
Linda, YES, I also loved and was mesmerized by the Erdedy episode! I think you might be onto something there, about a correlation between him and the insect. There are definite similarities in their behavior.
And yeah, I could't read it fast enough!
John wrote: "Oh, one more question for the group: It seems like Wallace has several acronyms that may or may not have other meanings? For example, O.N.A.N. is obviously a biblical reference, probably meant to b..."I have been curious about O.N.A.N., as it comes up a lot. I must have missed the Biblical reference, though...
Linda wrote: "5. Orin's way of dealing with the cockroaches seemed very OCD to me. He had a method that worked and did not deviate from it. Along with him having to transport the dead roaches to a separate du..."There does seem to be a correlation between Hal and Metamorphosis. Great insight there!
Regarding Erdedy and Orin, they both seem very much OCD to me.
John wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "I do think these are very sickening episodes, but they are also inventively sickening, if it makes any sense. Wallace is not using banal, cliched tropes as it is often used in horro..."You are spot-on, John, there's a very fine line between wanting to laugh or be horrified. Sometimes at the same time. All without your typical cliches. DFW is amazing!
John wrote: "Linda wrote: "I need an explanation here. I don't get the biblical reference at all (the bible being a weak point with me), nor what this has to do with petroleum jelly. Sorry if this is obvious to..."Ah, thank you for your insight! Much appreciated.:)
Dustin wrote: "Linda, YES, I also loved and was mesmerized by the Erdedy episode! I think you might be onto something there, about a correlation between him and the insect. There are definite similarities in their behavior."I'm enjoying these little flashbacks while I read your input from week one, Dustin! As for the Erdedy episode, it is still retaining a spot among my favorite bits from the book so far (I'm ~3/4 of the way through the book now). Love the insect too. :)
John wrote: "Carrie, I got the impression that Mario might have a mental handicap of some kind? And that's why he was still at the school?In any case, Mario is definitely older. From page 32:
"Hal...saw his ..."
Great questions, John! There really is a lot going on with the Incandeza's, let alone the rest of the novel. You've given me more to think about, thank you.
4. Last but not least, when Mario asks who was on the phone, Hal says "No one you know, I don't think." Does Mario not know his brother?
Exactly! Is Mario somehow not aware that he has an older brother named Orin, or did Hal mean it to mean he doesn't him him intellectually, emotionally, etc..?
John wrote: "Hillary wrote: "Ok... Is it worth downloading this book on my kindle??? I want your honest opinion."Emphatic yes! I am greatly enjoying the book on my kindle.
although, that would turn to an em..."
Oh, you guys are lucky! I'm currently reading on the Nook, which lacks the touch-screen capabilities to navigate effortlessly between the text and footnotes. I have to bookmark everything and that can be a little annoying. I'm seriously considering a paperback copy.:)
John wrote: "Great insights Sarah! I will definitely have to look up that Beatles song.Oh yeah, I totally forgot to mention that description of how in New Orleans there had been cases of cockroaches feeding o..."
Yes, I couldn't agree more, Sarah, fantastic insight into the Beatles lyrics. And yeah, the Charles de Lint mentioned repeatedly in the beginning was a little confusing, because I'm familiar with the fantasy writer of the same name.
Re: Orin's clinical depression/phobias, I found that VERY disturbing and dark, and really lets the reader into his mind-set while also developing his character.
Ami wrote: "I mentioned in an earlier post about a supposed obsession with suffocation so far, but I'm also noticing a trend with heads too. Wallace makes it a point to discuss the size of people's heads, digg..."Ami, I think you're spot-on about suffocation being an on-going theme here, and I totally missed all the size of heads references. There ARE a lot of them! Just off the top of my head, but in Hamlet, he (Hamlet) holds up and examines poor Yorick's skull, which is also connected to Footnote #24. Poor Yorick Productions.
Sarah wrote: "It does seem like way too many references for it to be a coincidence."I highly doubt it's coincidental. In fact, everything thus far feels very deliberate. DFW was a master of having the utmost control of his scenes/stories, and IJ is no different, IMO. There are no coincidences here, folks. Or very little, anyway.
Reading the Chunksters
Books mentioned in this topic
Girl With Curious Hair (other topics)Hamlet (other topics)
Stuck in Neutral (other topics)
The Metamorphosis (other topics)
What was with that weird past scene with Hal going to a professional conversationalist and realizing it was Himself? Then it was like Himself couldn't understand him. Also, in this scene Himself is saying he's 14, Hal says he's 11 and then later on he says he's 10.
I'm so glad you brought this up, I've been wanting to discuss it. My understanding was that Himself (in disguise) was able to communicate with Hal, but once the disguise was no longer effective the communication came to an end creating the same silence spawned by his own dear late father. By reading the newspaper instead of communicating with a young Himself, Hal's grandfather turns the newspaper into the room's fifth wall...In a four walled room, the newspaper is another wall separating Himself from his father (31). The grandfather also suffered from alcoholism too...I think Avril brings this up when talking about not being an overbearing parent.