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We Need to Talk About Kevin
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September 2014 Group Read: We Need to Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver
I read this book when I became a dad for the first time. That was really bad timing on my part!
David, I read The Hours when I was a new mom and thought I'd turn out like the Julianne Moore mother. Ugh. I've read this book, loved it, and had some great discussions about it. Looking forward to hearing what everyone has to say about it.
I'm with Tressa. I both loved and was disturbed by this book. It's a great book for discussion.
I just read this last year. It's a very intense book and I really enjoyed it. Will be nice to go over it with others.
I thought this book was very well written and I agree with previous posters, very disturbing.Ugg. Speaking of disturbing teen killers...stumbled across the story of the Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs yesterday on Reddit, the story is pretty well outlined in Wikipedia. DO NOT watch the video, I wish I didn't.
I just Googled these two Ukranian pieces of excrement and saw where they hanged a dog and then posted a selfie with it. And then read about their hammer spree. How the hell does a human being grow to become so evil?
I have no idea. One of the worst things for me was how they looked, they appeared perfectly normal and yet there were complete monsters underneath. Odd how all these killers (including fictitious Kevin) start off with animals. Sick bastards.
Kevin kickstarts interesting conversations about nature vs. nurture when it comes to people doing evil things in the world. I think some kids are born bad seeds, and others' evil deeds are the result of years of horrendous abuse and/or neglect. I read Columbine last year and learning that there is evil out there in the world in the form of Eric Harrises chilled me to the bone.
I just started this book, I have never read it before.I became a mom in July of last year, so i'm reading this with a pit in my stomach.
Don't get me wrong, I am really liking it so far, and I like how its written in Letter form, I feel more connected to the story this way. Its just very hard to read and grasp the mother's mindset
It's widely claimed that kids who terrorize animals and younger children are more likely to exhibit violent behavior as adults.
So glad my gentle son loves animals!
Looking forward to getting into this book after I finish the book I'm reading.
Alissa wrote: "I just started this book, I have never read it before.I became a mom in July of last year, so i'm reading this with a pit in my stomach.
Don't get me wrong, I am really liking it so far, and I ..."
Alissa, I did not find the mother to be likable at all. So don't feel bad if you don't like her either. I'm not even sure the reader is supposed to like her, I just know that I didn't.
Tressa wrote: "So glad my gentle son loves animals!"I was very happy when I watched my son growing up with a tenderness towards any living thing.
Yeah, I'm not liking her much either...
Interested to hear what people think. I read this last year and it has stuck with me ever since. I also will give a plug to the movie and suggest watching after reading. I thought they would ruin it...but the movie was spellbinding.
I'm not participating in the read but I am in the discussion. Is that even allowed? It shouldn't be.No spoilers - I think most of the people who don't care for it will feel the same way I did. The format/structure/style/whatever was different. Not wrong, just unusual. It didn't work for me so I quit and never bothered to rate it because I probably shouldn't have been reading it to begin with if I disliked the style that much right from the start.
You're bumming me out, Eleven. The way this story is told is masterful. You're missing out on the full effect by not finishing, so I'm bummed for you. :)
Charlene wrote: "You're bumming me out, Eleven. The way this story is told is masterful. You're missing out on the full effect by not finishing, so I'm bummed for you. :)"
Aww, thanks Char. Your concern for my literary welfare is touching. I saw the movie. Does that count? Or can I skip to the end of the book and pretend I read it all? I think we can reach a reasonable compromise here.
I haven't seen the movie. I would like to.
Charlene wrote: "I haven't seen the movie. I would like to."I thought it was well done. Not sure why the letter format bothered me in the book since I loved it in Dracula but to each his own I suppose.
Tressa, I read Columbine to, thought it was pretty well written. Very chilling.Charlene - not sure if you watch Game of Thrones, but the mom in the movie is Brienne of Tarth!
Hudson wrote: "Tressa, I read Columbine to, thought it was pretty well written. Very chilling.Charlene - not sure if you watch Game of Thrones, but the mom in the movie is Brienne of Tarth!"
Oh, my! That actress plays this mom?
I'm 60 pages into the book (60 of 394 or something like that). So I'm about 15% in. It feels honest so far. Do like the way she refers to that "Thursday."
I'm 13% in, and to be honest finding the book very pretentious and trying far too hard to be clever. I'm going to carry on to the end though!
Amanda wrote: "I'm 13% in, and to be honest finding the book very pretentious and trying far too hard to be clever. I'm going to carry on to the end though!"That it feels honest doesn't mean I'm liking the narrator. But then, if I was this honest, I'm not sure anyone would like me either, LOL!
For me, it's not the narrator so much, but the whole book that feel like it's trying too hard. I do agree that the honesty of the narrator is good but I just feel like the effectiveness is bring lost as a result of the authors need to be overly clever. But I'm not that far in to the book so time will tell :-)
Finished the book, really did not enjoy it.
Hudson wrote: "Tressa, I read Columbine to, thought it was pretty well written. Very chilling.Charlene - not sure if you watch Game of Thrones, but the mom in the movie is Brienne of Tarth!"
Hudson, I didn't know that. I thought that Tilda Swinton played the mom? I haven't seen it, so I'm not sure. I am familiar with the character of Brienne, and that actress is fantastic, IMO. :)
Without spoiling anything, this book taught me that I could enjoy a book without liking ANY of the characters. Prior to reading Kevin I would have said that that was impossible. This book proved me wrong.
Charlene wrote: "Hudson wrote: "Tressa, I read Columbine to, thought it was pretty well written. Very chilling.Charlene - not sure if you watch Game of Thrones, but the mom in the movie is Brienne of Tarth!"
Hud..."
Whoops!! Sorry Charlene, I was totally wrong about that. Swinton does NOT play Brienne.
She is played by Gwendolyn Christie and I agree, she's great.
I've just started reading this, looking forward to discussing!
Amanda wrote: "I'm 13% in, and to be honest finding the book very pretentious and trying far too hard to be clever. I'm going to carry on to the end though!"I feel the same exact way! It takes me longer to read, because of the "try-hard" language. I find it a little bit too pompous, but I'm only 60 pages in, maybe I'll change my mind.
Unfortunately I didn't! I!y dislike of this book was nothing to do with the characters. I just found it to be an extremely poor book. It didn't get any better for me!
Not an easy read is it? The prose is excruciating. Eva doesn't seem particularly likeable - but then, I don't think we're supposed to think she's perfect. Way too much upper-middle class pomposity.I'm finding the letter-writing format a bit clumsy when it comes to exposition - why would she write to Franklin with detailed accounts of events where he was present anyway (like from his own childhood)? It feels a little forced. I know the author wants us to get a complete view of everything from Eva's perspective, but it might have made more sense to have a few chapters written in third person to fill in the details that just look downright weird put down in a letter! :)
I finished this a while ago I liked it but the polt really got to my core. I hope you all enjoy.
Jon wrote: "Way too much upper-middle class pomposity."This!!! Completely agreed. I don't mind difficult reads, but this book is just difficult for no reason. The idea of letters isn't that bad, it just doesn't promote much interaction and makes it dull to me.
I've just started the book, and I like it so far. Although I agree that it's not an easy read because of the language.I like Eva and I think she's just writing the letters because she needs to talk to someone, to put her thoughts and doubts together and to try and understand what happened and why.
I think I will start it too. You guys make me so curious
Interesting comments about 'upper middle class pretentiousness'. I read the book as a criticism of exactly those types of parent - mums in particular - who see their child as a fashion accessory. Obviously not all of those children turn out to be killers, but I think the style was quite deliberate. I had no problems with the structure or language, but it really opened up the nature and nurture debate.
The part about Mary bored me....
Jon wrote: "Not an easy read is it? The prose is excruciating. Eva doesn't seem particularly likeable - but then, I don't think we're supposed to think she's perfect. Way too much upper-middle class pomposity...."Jon, the reason for the information in the letters will be revealed.
Charlene wrote: "Jon wrote: "Not an easy read is it? The prose is excruciating. Eva doesn't seem particularly likeable - but then, I don't think we're supposed to think she's perfect. Way too much upper-middle clas..."Interesting! Thanks for the clarification, Charlene. I'm intrigued! :)
For anyone wondering - I am enjoying this book, irrespective of my initial opinion of the style in which it is written.
This was a very interesting read for me because I read this book when it first came out and absolutely loved it. Now I've read it a second time and while my opinion hasn't completely changed, I now think it's a deeply flawed book that could have been much better. My beef with the book can be summed up in two words: too much. I found everything in WNTTAK was taken to an extreme that undermined the story and made me not believe what I was reading. For example, I understand that if that there was ever a character who would examine her life in minute detail, it would be Eva. However, even before the inciting incident, Eva was examining every detail and motivation in her life in excruciating detail. Now I'm a person who tends to live in my own head, but Eva did it to a point where I wanted to yell, "Shut up and just get on with it!" I don't need to have her every motivation parsed to death.
Also "too much" was how (view spoiler). Eva literally has him at eighteen months already (view spoiler) in a way I simply didn't find believable. And it was sooooo unrelenting that again, I didn't by a toddler/young child would do many of things Kevin did.
Speaking of things I didn't buy, the fact that (view spoiler). For crying out loud, after a relentless string of events that his wife has pointed out to him, Franklin (view spoiler). For me this made him either the worst father ever or psychotic, neither of which I found very interesting. I kept expecting Eva to find a journal or letter where Franklin expressed some doubt. Instead, he behaved like the character in the horror movie who refuses to acknowledge anything is amiss even as the bodies pile up.
I know Shriver has said that Franklin represents America's eternal sense of optimism and "believe it and it will be true" attitude, which is fine, but making that point can't override a believable plot, IMHO.
I do give Shriver a lot of credit for making Eva such a complicated, pretty unlikable character and for tackling the issue of women and motherhood and how difficult a challenge that can be. But I wish the book had at least some subtlety to it as opposed to bludgeoning the reader over and over with such extremes. That would have made for a much more nuanced read and allowed for a more interesting exploration of the whole nature vs nurture debate.
Just started, 10 pages in, hope it lives up to the hype!
Twenty-five pages in thus far. Liked this quote:"Only a country that feels invulnerable can afford political turmoil as entertainment."
Michael wrote: "This was a very interesting read for me because I read this book when it first came out and absolutely loved it. Now I've read it a second time and while my opinion hasn't completely changed, I now..."Well said! (view spoiler)
I'm about 40 percent done and I'm hating all of the characters. But I am really liking this book. I've never had that happen before
I'm finding it a little difficoult..because english is not my language.. I'll see
I had listened to the audiobook a while back, and had a hard time getting into it, so I'm going to try again. It could be this is one of those works (like World War Z) that just doesn't lend itself well to audio.
Horror Aficionados
Books mentioned in this topic
Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain (other topics)We Need to Talk About Kevin (other topics)
Columbine (other topics)
The Hours (other topics)
We Need to Talk About Kevin (other topics)
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