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Now You're Speakin' My Language (or Dialect)
Beth wrote: "Jemppu wrote: "163 = one hundred (and sixty-three)1141 = one thousand one hundred (and forty)one or (eleven hundred) (and forty)one
10 111 = (ten thousand one hundred and eleven)"
There are no "a..."
Beth, I think the lack of an 'and' in the numerals is another difference between US and British English.
I, and everyone I know, here in the UK says One hundred and forty, or two thousand for hundred and thrty six. Interestingly, there is no and between the thousands and the hundreds, but if there are no hundreds, there is an and. Two thousand and fifty.
V.M. wrote: "... The US puts the month first, while Europe puts the day first. So your example 9/11 would mean 11th September in the US, but 9th November in Europe. Therefore, it's important to know if we're dealing with the US or Europe, or it could be disastrous...."Indeed! 9/11 over here is 11.9.
"Syyskuun yhdestoista" ("September Eleventh") would be the term to refer to the date here in Finland (in general or the specific event).
Those 'dots' after numerals are important in Finnish, in general. They make the numerals into ordinals. (A detail too often neglected especially in dates by many a Finn - much to the rest of us dismay *ha* That last . matters!)
11 = eleven (yksitoista)
11. = eleventh (yhdestoista)
9 = nine (yhdeksän)
9. = ninth (yhdeksäs)
_____
ETA: Veered off to the 9/11 wikipage, and found an example of unguided numerals reading:
"Syyskuun 11. päivän terroriteoiksi* (myös: Syyskuun 11., WTC-iskut ja 9/11)..."
"September 11th terrorist acts (also: September 11th, WTC-strikes and 9/11)..."
"9/11" is given as an alternative term in the Finnish article as well, without specification of 'pronunciation'; you'd never say that in Finnish as "yhdeksän (kautta) yksitoista", but would indeed need to know to read those numbers in English (and know the "slash" is silent).
(*a conjugated form of 'terroriteot', lit. 'terror acts')
V.M. wrote: "Therefore, it's important to know if we're dealing with the US or Europe, or it could be disastrous."Yes, and this is why I always ask people to write the date out, either "Jan 1" or "January 1st", etc. so there can be no confusion. You can't even trust the format (. or / or -) since people don't use them correctly (. for Europe, / for US, - for universal).
I wouldn't have known about the Swiss having different numbers except that a friend of ours was married to a Swiss woman when we were learning French.And the French do use and (et) in some of their numbers:
21 — vingt et un
31 — trente et un
and so on up until
71 = soixante et onze (sixty and eleven)
and then it goes back to no et uns
I think Belgian French does “septante” (70) instead of “soixante-dix” (70), too. same with 80 and 90.
The military in the U.S. puts the date before the month. My husband served for 24 years before he retired, and he still writes the date, say like today, as 23 Jan.
Michelle wrote: "The military in the U.S. puts the date before the month. My husband served for 24 years before he retired, and he still writes the date, say like today, as 23 Jan."👍 That is no doubt because they are a part of a chain of internationally operating organizations. Smoothens the correspondence considerably, one would imagine.
Mod
Jemppu wrote: "11 = eleven (yksitoista)11. = eleventh (yhdestoista)
9 = nine (yhdeksän)
9. = ninth (yhdeksäs)"
That's quite elegant compared to our superscript "th"," "st," etc.
V.M. wrote: "Beth, I think the lack of an 'and' in the numerals is another difference between US and British English."Such small differences. Writers must clutch their heads constantly if they're trying to write characters from the other side of the pond.
In this case I suspect there are lots of "ands" in numbers when people are speaking in the U.S, and the lack of them is only important in formal/legal documents.
Michelle wrote: "The military in the U.S. puts the date before the month. My husband served for 24 years before he retired, and he still writes the date, say like today, as 23 Jan."I'm terminally confused because of learning date formats in both the US and European at the same time. 24 hour time I can handle (father was Air Force lifer) w/o any problems though. And first floor: in the US it's the ground floor, in France it's the floor above the ground floor
I have always thought that the whole world should use the elegant year-month-day, formatted in whatever way someone thinks is best. I don't mind what the punctuation is, I just want a logical order, and not only is this logical, it's also sortable!All my files are named 20210123_name_of_file.yay, in perfect order and extremely easy to find ^_^
I’ve started doing that for my bank files (the only ones that really need dates), Anna. It is perfect.
Oh, date format pet peeve in Finland! The official format is d.m.yy, so for example 1.1.2021, not dd.mm.yy, 01.01.2021. I naturally only use the latter format when I can't use YYMMDD, because otherwise the dates don't line up nicely :P
it does allow you to sort them digitally
Anna wrote: "All my files are named 20210123_name_of_file.yay"So basically my drive looks like this:
20210123_capybara1.jpg
20210123_capybara2.jpg
20210123_capybara3.jpg
20210123_capybara4.jpg
20210123_doggo1.jpg
20210123_emu1.jpg
20210123_emu2.jpg
20210123_emu3.jpg
20210123_fox1.jpg
20210123_fox2.jpg
20210123_kitten1.jpg
Oh my god, yes, you are my people! I've tried to explain this way of sorting files to colleagues for decades, and only around 20% ever understand it. Or even just a system when you have around 15 files to be in a particular order, naming them 01, 02, ..., 10, 11, ... Somehow it's utterly impossible to understand and people just go "okay, Eva wants those weird zeros in front of stuff, so we'll write 01, 02, ..., 010, 011, ... there, happy now?" 😂
I don't understand how other people can live with their files!!
yymmdd_name_of_the_ad_(number of columns)x(column length in mm).indd Worked with this filing system on a newspaper for a decade. Current place doesn't need as precise filing: folders get named "yyyy_mm" and files with name and size.
Using "-" instead of "_" drives me mad, for the alphabetizing gets mixed up. Spaces in file names breaking the string are also unpleasant to look at (such as "040624_Name of the work_2x120.fh9"), but at least that doesn't mess up the filing order.
This for work, though (work work, and hobby work). Other than that my folders are such a complete mess. File names what ever the heck, and saved where ever there's sufficient space just then 👀
I wish they were more organized, though (clearing space would be so much easier and quicker, for one), but that's the nature of saving on the fly - often amidst actual other tasks of importance - with minimum time/effort/energy expenditure.
(ETA: might've misremembered that file naming! Surely the year got marked short 🤔). (ETA: I could use such a service 👇)
I worked in data management for years
Oh, you and I, Jemina, could be data filing twins.
Love the discussion that proceeds apace while I step away.But I just want to add, because I'm stubborn, "Reynolds Wrap® Aluminum Foil" and "Aluminum is a valuable metal that when recycled has significant positive impacts on the economy and environment. "
Y'all should get rid of the extra i, just like the extra u in words like color. :)
The American Chemical Society (ACS) officially adopted aluminum in 1925, but in 1990 The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) accepted aluminium as the international standard. And so we land today: with aluminum used by the English speakers of North America, and aluminium used everywhere else.The original name was aluminum according to this article:
https://diecasting.com/blog/2014/02/2...
CBRetriever wrote: "Gaes: pronunciationhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kG6O..."
Yep. This word comes up quite often in Charles Stross's Laundry Files books. The narrator of the audio books gets it right.
V.M. wrote: "... But it seems the whole world, including chemists in the US pronounce (and spell) it with the -ium ending. ..."Not me. I've got a Ph.D. in Chemical Physics. I've always said "-um".
Anna wrote: "I have always thought that the whole world should use the elegant year-month-day, formatted in whatever way someone thinks is best. I don't mind what the punctuation is, I just want a logical order..."
I would tend to disagree on that. A much clearer, foolproof way is date-month-year, as of today is 23, 01 (January), 2021. The USA is about alone in putting the month before the day and it is confusing as hell. It is like the USA being about the only country left using the imperial system rather than the metric system. Even the British now use the metric system.
I would tend to disagree on that. A much clearer, foolproof way is date-month-year, as of today is 23, 01 (January), 2021. The USA is about alone in putting the month before the day and it is confusing as hell. It is like the USA being about the only country left using the imperial system rather than the metric system. Even the British now use the metric system.
“Even the British use the metric system” well, sort of. Everything is still in miles and mph and they still use stones for weighing people (what is that even?!?) but they do use Celsius.
Michel wrote: "I would tend to disagree on that. A much clearer, foolproof way is date-month-year, as of today is 23, 01 (January), 2021."try sorting these:
23, 03 (March), 2021
24, 01 (January), 2021
22, 07 (July), 2021
and you end up with
22, 07 (July), 2021
23, 03 (March), 2021
24, 01 (January), 2021
and imagine a column/list of 100 or more like this and trying to find a specific date
I worked for a US company, a Belgian company and a French company and the last two insisted that files start with year (4 digit) month (2 digit) day (2 digit). That way you could search for a specific word and then sort by file name and get the latest report.
heck, even the main petroleum and geological databases always had a date sort field formatted like that so you could analyse the data
YES! Japan uses YYYY年MM月DD日 format, and I don't understand why it's not used universally. If you do the reverse, 02-12-2021, there it still possible confusion over whether it is February or December. But the reverse, 2021-12-02, is much more unambiguous. Plus, like others have noted, it's perfect for organizing files.I think we can all agree, only a villain and a fiend would sow discord by using YYYY DD MM.
(Now I'm imagining an actual B-List villain: HaHA! Prepare to be befuddled! For I am the Dastardly Dater! All before me quail in confusion!
Bystander: So, you give mixed romantic signals? Cause honey, that's nothing new.
DD: *deadpan* No actually, I'm most clear and intentional in my romantic overtures. But! You shall never know when the date is!
Bystander2: Yeahhh no. That sounds like my last partner.
DD: *wilts* Ugh, no... Common, you guys... Like, I'm trying to upend society here... )
Allison wrote: "or Guy (like in Guillaume) ass, and certainly not like a slur/epithet, which is another I've heard a lot. I've been very confused about characters calling them selves "ge asses" like "I couldn't sa..."Maybe someone's mentioned this before but ... ass and arse are very mild slur/epithets in British and Australian English, but appear relatively offensive in the American version.?
Mod
Allison wrote: "It's a slur in British English?? Like, it means something against a group of people?? It's a curse word here, but it's one you can say on TV so it tends not to be seen as that big a deal."No, I don't think it could be used as a slur, more a mild almost affectionate sometimes curse word.
Mod
we don't really use arse and I've transitioned to using merde and bloody as most Americans don't think of them as cussing wordshah! Spell check doesn't like arse
DivaDiane wrote: "“Even the British use the metric system” well, sort of. Everything is still in miles and mph and they still use stones for weighing people (what is that even?!?) but they do use Celsius."Don't I know it. I spent my primary (elementary in the US) education struggling with the old imperial system of weights and measures, only to have to change to metric at secondary school. I still cannot visualise grams or Kilogram weights as opposed to stones and ounces. It's the same for heights. Then there was the change of currency to decimal after learning how to calculate in base 12 for the old money, and don't get me started on pocket calculators after spending years in maths lessons trying to master an old fashioned slide rule. They died out about the same time as I left school.
Rant from old man over, now where did I put my slippers ...
1st year Chemistry = slide rule2nd year Organic Chemistry = calculator
the first year the university thought calculators were too expensive for poor students to afford (the first ones (they ran from $150 to $300) and I remember we really had to scrimp to buy the one my husband used (he was studying Geological Engineering)
I teach English as a Foreign Language, and sometimes it can be confusing if I share classes with teachers who have backgrounds in other forms of English. Also confusing is that most of our textbooks are American, but the students' grammar book is English. It threw me off the first day when one of the students asked me what a rubber was, haha. (As opposed to eraser, which they all know and use on a regular basis.)
douche was the odd word for me. I know the American definition of it and to see billboards with sexy French guys on them advertising douche was a bit odd
Australian English:147 = One hundred and forty seven
Date:
Today is the 24th of January 2021, therefore - 24/01/2021 or 24.01.2021
Arse refers to your behind (butt/bottom) and is used here as a mild swear word.
Ass is a donkey.
The first time I heard 'The Nanny' song, I nearly fainted. I mean, they said 'fanny' in the song in child time TV! Fanny doesn't mean butt here. It means...vagina. And fanny pack nearly made my eyeballs fall out, as you can imagine. We use the term 'bum bag.'
Note: Words in Australia used for bottom/behind/butt = bum, butt, behind, bottom, arse. There are probably more.
I once made a list of Australian slang for a Romanian friend, which covered four A4 pages front and back. Nearly all of it was about being insane/crazy/mad, sex, or bodily functions. Or drinking.
Oh, and we're metric. Have been for decades. I'm mid fifties, and I learnt (note the 't') metric in primary school. Babies, for some reason and measured in grams and pounds. But mostly grams now.
Stephanie wrote: "I teach English as a Foreign Language, and sometimes it can be confusing if I share classes with teachers who have backgrounds in other forms of English. Also confusing is that most of our textbook..."Ooh yeah, that one threw me for a loop when I was teaching English- "Teacher, can I have a rubber?" I also can barely handle it when one of my British colleagues says "rub it out" rather than erase.
As often the only American in the room, I have the pleasure of putting on an exaggerated air and launching into an explanation of "IN MY COUNTRY..." (I probably enjoy this too much)
I realize I do torture my team sometimes (not one of whom is American) with our date system, but I am tortured everyday by my frail understanding of international measurement systems- should we not share the pain?
Mod
Did you hear about the NASA disaster that happened years ago because of confusion over metric vs imperial system? NASA had built a space probe that was then flown to Mars. The problem was that it never arrived there and missed Mars by a few thousand kilometers (peanuts for space travel). The cause was that NASA calculated the trajectory in metric but the contractor who built the probe used imperial system. A few inches and hundreds of millions of dollars later... The chief scientist in charge of the mission was said to have nearly strangled the contractor in a fit of rage.
Michel wrote: "Did you hear about the NASA disaster that happened years ago because of confusion over metric vs imperial system? NASA had built a space probe that was then flown to Mars. The problem was that it n..."Yes! Mars Climate Orbiter. Never forget.
I grew up with imperial, like any American, but learned metric in school in the 80’s because, yes, “the switch is imminent!”. I actually learned to use it when I moved to Germany in the mid-90’s and have lived in (mostly) mainland Europe since then. It’s simply not worth converting in your head, so you get used to it sooner rather than later. This half and half solution here in the UK is for the birds. The only imperial things I think *are* a) superior or b) I can let go of are a) Fahrenheit (more differentiation: 20-22*C is approx. 72-76*F) and b) cup measures. I know weights are more accurate than volume, but all my family recipes are in cups.
Temp is the hardest one for me, I never remember what the weird F temps mean. I've learned to let it go, I can't stop audiobooks to do conversions :D I can convert distance, volume and weight pretty easily on the fly, in approximation naturally, but close enough.I should make it a point to learn F to C, but I don't want to.
edit: I looked it up, and I guess the trick to get a ballpark figure is to use 30 and 2 instead of 32 and 1.8. It's still two steps, needs a pause in audio :P
DivaDiane wrote: "I know weights are more accurate than volume, but all my family recipes are in cups. "I love it when recipes have both! I prefer volume for some things, weight for others. Volumes are easy to convert though, I don't care if my recipes use cups or deciliters, I can do the math in my head. And most measuring cups sold in Europe have both.
Measurements for recipes have never really been a problem for me since the invention of ready meals and the microwave oven.
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Language Hoax: Why the World Looks the Same in Any Language (other topics)A Clockwork Orange (other topics)
On the Road (other topics)
Villains in Venice (other topics)
Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation (other topics)
More...
13 — treize
14 — quatorze
15 — quinze
16 — seize
17 — dix-sept
18 — diz-huit
19 — dix-neuf
20 — vingt
as is the one for
70 = soixante-dix (60 + 10)
80 =..."
I was going to say exactly that! But interesting to know the Swiss have 70, 80 and 90.