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Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
Summerdale wrote: "I just returned home yesterday from an unexpected out of town trip and will start the book tonight."Glad to have you back, Summerdale! You'll catch up without problem. Looking forward to your thoughts.
....and if you find Stephen's glasses in the first chapter, I think we'd all like to hear about it. :D
I'm playing catch up with this after a busy week. Hope to get chapter 1 finished tomorrow and then start chapter 2. All the above notes and comments have helped me immensely too :)
After reading the 1st part, and thanks, Petra, for posting the reading schedule which clears things up for me, my opinions are pretty short & sweet; Buck is a smart @ss, why doesn't he have his own money? and the text brought to mind other random things I've read like Shakespeare's Richard III and Tom Stoppard plays. hm
In chapter 2,I like Stephen's concern with what might have been, if something else hadn't happened e.g. If Pyrrhus hadn't fallen. I also enjoyed his concern for the outcast student Sargent.Also, how hard it is to argue against those who claim status and seek for respect from having been around for a long time e.g. 'I remember the famine' Mr Deasy.
Love this sentence. "thought is the thought of thought.Tranquil brightness. The soul is in a ''manner all that is: the soul is the form of forms." pure poetry to my ears.
The "thought is the thought of thought" that Diane mentioned stood out to me also along with another quote "History is the nightmare from which I am trying to awake." The latter just made me feel even more sympathetic towards Stephen, as he seems to be suffering the guilt of not praying at his mother's deathbed and who knows what else from his past that maybe we don't know yet. ( I have no reason to think that other than we don't know a lot about his history yet."
The other thing that struck is that Stephen, yet again is surrounded by another pompous ass, Deasy, who is condescending as well as blatantly antisemitic.
I've just come across a link to the person that Buck Mulligan is meant to be based onhttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver...
It also includes some information about the Martello tower.
I don't know if I got much more out of Chapter 2 than I did in Chapter 1. I like Stephen but he's a bit of a weenie, too. If he were younger (late teens/early 20s), his angst may be a symptom of his age. But isn't he mid- to late- 20s? Shouldn't he be starting to feel more comfortable in his skin? Because of his age, I think of him more as someone without much of a backbone, not someone coming of age. But then, it can take years to grow a backbone when one is brought up to be "nice" and a Catholic upbringing may have given him a "turn the other cheek" philosophy.
However, I like his humanity and, therefore, him. We are all vulnerable and insecure in many ways. We may not show it but it's always there.
If Stephen is somewhat autobiographical, then Joyce must have often second-guessed himself.
I like when he ruminated about "what might have been" if something in history had been different. All of our lives could have been changed if something elemental had gone the other way. ie: if Julius Caesar hadn't been killed, how would his additional life have changed our world today?
History is such a crap shoot. It's really as if we live in Vegas and its all in the roll of the dice.
It's very much an "out of your hands", fatalistic thing.
Summerdale, Buck is a medical student so I think his lack of funds is mainly from his student status. He's really milking it, though.
Question re: Stephen's pay:
Didn't Stephen say, in Chapter 1, that he's to receive 4 pounds? Didn't Mr. Deasy give him 3 pounds & change? Is he being ripped off by Mr. Deasy?
I agree that Mr. Deasy is a boring person.
His hoof & mouth disease project/campaign kind of made me chuckle, though. It's so not a part of the boy's school or anything at all to do with Stephen or his job but Mr. Deasy involves Stephen in his own personal concern anyway. It's all about himself.
Gill, thanks for that link!"..... Gogarty was known to be fond ... midnight carousing in "the Kips", Dublin's red-light district" - there's a chapter in Ulysses set in a the red-light district. Wonder if this had anything to do with that chapter.
The mention of the Tower is really interesting. It adds a personal perspective to Chapter 1.
Gill , thanks for the link . That is so interesting.Petra - I agree - Stephen is a weenie - lol .
He seems to be taken advantage of every time he turns around . Yet , I kind of feel sorry for him .
I had a look through chapter one and it was Buck who mentioned 4 quid, Stephen didn't actually confirm the amount. Buck did ask to borrow some though. When Stephen got paid, he made a mental list of all his debts, and he mentioned Mulligan 9 pounds. So even though Buck is currently borrowing money, it looks to me like Stephen owes it to him anyway?At the beginning of episode 2 we see Stephen teaching. His style seems very disjointed, he starts with history, moves on to a story and then tells riddles before his students run off to play hockey. Even the students seemed befuddled by the lack of closure of any subject prior to moving on. Mr Deasey's observation that Stephen was not born to be a teacher could be correct. He worries that his students will laugh, that they are aware of his lack of rule. Petra mentioned Stephen's lack of backbone,I think he is aware of his shortcoming in that area. One on one with a student he is not intimidated by though, he seems very caring and supportive.
I just may join in on this read, especially since it is over several months. I read the first three "episodes" online yesterday and was pleasantly surprised that I didn't find it all that hard to follow. Admittedly it is very stream of consciousness, and his mind jumps from one thing to another rather erratically, but I just let it all wash over me and go with the images. It reminded me very much of Dylan Thomas - the poeticness of the language, and his use of alliteration, color, etc. Glad to do this with a group though. I had no idea what a Martello Tower was. I do think I need to reread though. There is so much there, that you get the overall idea the first time, but maybe miss a lot too!
Welcome, Laurel! We have just read the first 2 episodes, so you're right on time. We'd love to hear your comments and thoughts.
I just finished chapter 2. Mr. Dease was really getting on my nerves. The way he talked about Jews and women! I could feel Stephen's restraint.
Agreed, Charbel. He's quite annoying in his views and so openly forceful about them. I found him so immersed in himself and having no thoughts at all for the person he's talking with (to). He's very much a windbag. Evelyn, thank you for going back to check on Stephen's pay. I keep meaning to do that but haven't yet.
So, it seems that Buck either inflated Stephen's pay or rounded up or just doesn't know the exact amount. It kind of works in his favor to think that Stephen has more than he actually has. In that way, Buck feels less guilty about borrowing cash, maybe?
Stephen, again, doesn't show much backbone by accepting the inflated amount and allowing Buck to believe it. This puts Stephen in a bind since Buck will expect more from him in future.
Thanks for this insight. I think it really ties up with the character of Telemachus in The Odyssey. Huh! There really are parallels to Ulysses and The Odyssey. Fascinating! It must have taken a lot of concentration for Joyce to incorporate the one story into his. I tip my hat to Joyce for being able to do that.
I am really enjoying reading this book along with everyone. I love the thoughts and opinions and ideas. They are really adding to what I'm getting out of this book.
Windbag is a perfect description , Petra. I'm enjoying everyone's comments as well
I got through Episode 3 - can't wait to hear what everyone has to say . I'll wait until next week to post my comments .
Angela, way to go! I've just started Episode 3 and like how it's done so far and am looking forward to next week's discussion on it.I have to say that I like our pacing. It's giving me time to read each episode slowly and when I've got the time. That helps me tremendously in understanding, seeing nuances and enjoying the book even more.
Petra , I agree . It also gives us time to read other things as well . I'm thinking I have to read episode 3 again . So far this one is the most difficult for me .
"...the frozen deathspew of the slain." I like how Joyce decides to join certain words together but the fact that he omits quotation marks is really messing me up. Good thing we're taking it slow. I can't believe Mr. Deasy ran huffing and puffing to catch up with Stephen at the end of part 2 just to knock the Jewish people one more time! Some people get off on hatefulness.
Mod
Sounds like a very busy week, Greg. While you were digging & sawing, were the thoughts in your head as varied, scattered, guilt-ridden & weird as Stephen's headly-meanderings* as he walked the beach? * = if Joyce can make up words, so can I. LOL!
Welcome back!
3. PROTEUS TIME: 11.00 am.
SCENE: The beach along Sandymount Strand.
ORGAN: None
ART: Philology
COLOURS: Green
SYMBOL: Tide
TECHNIQUE: Monologue (male)
CORRESPONDENCES: Proteus-primal matter; Menelaus-Kevin Egan; Megapenthus-cockle picker. (Helen and Telemachus. Sense: Primal matter).
Homeric Parallels: In book 4 of The Odyssey Telemachus visits the court of Menelaus, who knows of Odysseus' lot from information coerced out of the sea god of many shapes, Proteus. The god tells of the death of Ajax and Agamemnon, and of the fate of Odysseus marooned and in bondage on Calypso's island.
Summary: Stephen walks along the sea front and reflects upon the things he sees — midwives, cockle-pickers, boulders, a dog, the body of a dog, "seaspawn and seawrack". He wonders if he should visit his aunt and remember his father's scorn for his mother's relatives. He changes direction, thinks about his time in Paris and his friend Kevin Egan. His imaginings drift towards his own writing and sex, which he projects into exotic settings. He picks his nose, worries about his teeth, then sees "a silent ship" in the bay.
Comment: Protean means 'changing', and in this episode Stephen is concerned with the nature of change over time and in space, and with the general movement of all things towards some goal, or towards a decay upon which, paradoxically, new life depends ("dead breaths I living breathe"). He scans the beach for 'signs' as if the external world were a text laden with "Signatures of all things" there for him to read. He also examines the internal world of solipsism, but he finds that if you interrogate the "ineluctable modality of the visible" by closing your eyes and withdrawing from it, you can still hear yourself walking ("ineluctable modality of the audible") and you will open your eyes to find that the world was "There all the time without you: and ever shall be, world without end." (Incidentally, in CIRCE we find that Stephen "Must get glasses. Broke them yesterday"; could this stress upon the nature of the visible be a compensation for myopia?) Several dimensions of classical philosophy and theology (especially Aristotelian and Thomist) are explored during Stephen's apparently random musings in this episode, but he also explores the limits of himself, especially his own artistic aspirations, his sexual proclivities, and his own loneliness, in ways that perhaps ironise his pose as a 'priest of the imagination'.
The Sheila Variations (Proteus): http://www.sheilaomalley.com/?p=7550
I've been reading ahead (currently Episode 6) and am really enjoying this. I'd originally thought it would be a really hard slog, but so far so good.
Well, Episode 3 (Proteus) was a lot more difficult. I probably should read it again but the section in Paris bored me to death!My favorite lines from Proteus:
"See now. There all the time without you: and ever shall be, world without end"
Stephen had walked along the beach with his eyes closed for awhile and wondered whether the world would be the same when he opened them. And, of course, it was and he thought this statement.
It's kind of a sad and yet a positive look at the future: whereas we are part of the world, it will continue without us for evermore for all time.
In Stephen's case, I think it's a sad reflection of his loneliness and isolation from everything: his home isn't his home, he feels guilt about his mother, his money isn't necessarily his (debt & loans to friends), his job isn't what he'd like it to be, etc.
"These heavy sands are language tide and wind have silted here."
I found this very powerful. Tide & wind shapes and pushes sand, while sand is powerless and must comply. The sand is heavy with...what?
Stephen's life is just as powerless to its outside powers as the sands. He's being shaped by forces outside of himself. He's heavy with guilt, remorse, duty, etc.
I do like Joyce's choice in words in this sentence.
I liked the thoughts of his family but, as I mentioned, was bored through the Paris reflections.
We did find out that Stephen seems to be afraid of strange dogs (or maybe dogs, strange to him or not?).
The annotations in my copy were very helpful in this chapter. It's full of references to Irish history. If anyone has a question about a certain line or reference, let me know and I'll see if it's in the annotations.
I found the annotation about the ship in the harbor (at the end of this episode) interesting:
"A threemaster, her sails brailed up on the crosstrees" = the three crosstree masts recall Jesus, flanked by the thieves atop Calvary.
I would never have thought of the ship as a religious reference.
A general note on Sandymount Strand was interesting, too:
"a beach just south of the Liffey's mouth and approximately 8Km north of Martello Tower in Sandycove and 9.5Km north of the Clifton school in Dalkey. The swath of beach that Stephen is traversing in this chapter has since been filled in and urbanized."
I want to post this before I lose the links. It's for episode 6, and is about the cemetery that is the location of part that episode.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasne...
Also: http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/visit-gl...
From the first phrase "Ineluctable modality of the visible " , I had the feeling that this section was going to be difficult . I felt better after reading the analysis because so much of it , specifically the philosophical references were just way over my head .More so than in the first two episodes , I was more aware of Joyce's "stream of consciousness " . I was especially impacted by Stephen's loneliness and general unhappiness with his life . The guilt over his mother's death still on his mind as he thinks of the telegram - Mother dying come home father .
"And no more turn aside and brood."
But he does .
We've now finished the first section: Stephen. Any thoughts about this portion of the book? About Stephen?
What are your thoughts about reading this book? Are you enjoying it? How frustrated are you and in what way?
Do you have any questions before we move forward?
We're about to leave Stephen behind for awhile so any discussion of him would be relevant right now. This section of the book is a complete entity. Any thoughts or ideas?
Angela, Joyce certainly has picked up the pace with his "stream of consciousness" style. This episode was completely in Stephen's head. It did remind me of how my brain skips & jumps when I'm just meandering down the road or the beach. Thought is so unpredictable, isn't it? It just hops & skips about without reason.
Hi, I've just joined thanks to my friend Laurel. I started listening to this on audio, which I think is a great idea. Much of it is aural, plays on words, poetry, even singing. The narrator is great, and maybe because of that I liked Buck! He is alive and enjoying life. Stephen seems rather blah and depressed. He is the intellectual, mind-centered person rather than physical. However, I did find a few times I needed to rewind to catch what was being said, especially with the Irish accent of some characters.
So this is supposed to be the day of Bloom and he hasn't yet appeared.
Petra ,I was happy to read in one of the analyses that this episode was probably one of the most difficult and that it's gets better or easier from here on in .
Yes, Stephen was all over the place and that is a reflection of his state of mind and it makes me think how conflicted he is , but the hardest parts for me were all of the philosophic references that I hadn't a clue about until looking at the analysis .
Robin ,I just started Episode 4 and Bloom has finally arrived !
Petra wrote: "3. PROTEUS TIME: 11.00 am.
SCENE: The beach along Sandymount Strand.
ORGAN: None
ART: Philology
COLOURS: Green
SYMBOL: Tide
TECHNIQUE: Monologue (male)
CORRESPONDENCES: Proteus-primal matte..."
So, this mentions the broken glasses, but as the day before!
Yes, I think episode 3 was quite hard to read. The thing that made it a bit easier is that I live by the sea and walk on the beach alone most days. So I'm used to the idea of a rambling mind in those circumstances. I can imagine that, following Stephen's mother's death and his return from Paris, his thoughts would wander even more.I've enjoyed Part 1 much more than I expected. There are loads of references that I don't get, though I think I can identify many that refer to the church and religion. It has made me realize that my knowledge of Irish history is greater than I realized.
Re Buck Milligan, I don't think he's too bad actually. A bit of loud mouth, and knows it all. The three of them seem a fairly typical group of young men (hope that's not too controversial!)
It's kind of bugging me that the breakage Stephen's glasses is so hidden because it seems a pivotal part of what Joyce is trying to say about Stephen. From The Sheila Variations:
"It’s 11 am. Stephen goes for a walk on the beach. He is blind, his glasses have broken. ..... Let’s remember: Stephen has broken his glasses. We are now completely inside his head, inside his experience … And so, because he can’t see, all impressions come to him through sounds, all colors blur together … which is a perfect reflection of his own state of mind. "
This concept is important for Episode 3. I noticed a lot of sound in this episode but didn't really relate it to Stephen having broken his glasses. (without glasses, Stephen sees much better than I would without glasses so I never put the things together with sound=not seeing in this episode....guess this sort of thing is all a matter of perspective and where the reader comes from?)
Joyce must have something in mind if he doesn't mention the glasses until Circe, which is near the end of the book (episode 15). There's some reason why we are being kept blind. I wonder what it is?
These three episodes are all about Stephen. In episode 1, we learn of his home life. In episode 2, of his working life and in episode 3, his internal life. What I came away with is that Stephen is an insecure, guilt-ridden, frustrated, almost defeated young man. He's somehow beaten down by his guilt and disappointment and he has to get out of that rut. If he stays where he is, his life will be one disappointment after another. He needs to take control in order to make the changes that will make him happy and give him a good, solid life where he can be content.
He's at a cross road but I'm not sure if he realizes that (I suspect he doesn't).
I like this first section and enjoyed how Joyce introduced us to Stephen. He (Joyce) does rely a lot on A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, I think, and the presumption is that the reader has read this book. Joyce also puts in a lot of history and philology and Catholicism, which is difficult but not insurmountable (especially with annotations).
All in all, I thoroughly enjoyed this section. I either didn't remember much of it from my first reading or I got a lot more out of this second reading. Either way, I feel that I got to know Stephen as a human being.
Have you read Portrait, Petra? I haven't. Perhaps I should read it after this.
No, I haven't, Gill, but I'm beginning to think I should read it one day.
I was struck by the repetition of the colors yellow and gold in this section, rather than green.
Robin, do you mean Episode 3? I hadn't noticed much mention of white & gold (this is something that I'd easily miss). There was a lot of white & gold in Episode 1, I remember (because I was looking for it). Odd things stick in my mind sometimes. As I was driving home from work, I thought about Stephen's glasses and the mention above (thanks, Gill) about the breakage happening "yesterday".
This book deals strictly with one day, so there would be no mention of anything that happened beforehand. Therefore, not only is Stephen blind but so is the reader. We're as blind as Stephen and know only the colours, shapes and words that come at us. It's Joyce's way of having us live this day with his characters. In this way, this one day will live forever, always fresh & new (through the blind eyes of new readers).
Stephen doesn't think about his glasses until Circe (episode 15), which is almost at the end of the book. At that point, his eyes may (or may not) still be blinded (as he still hasn't got glasses) but our eyes are opened as we learn that Stephen is blind and, therefore, we can see.
Philosophical, I know, but is it Joycean?? Guess we'll find out. LOL!
Edited to add: remember that this day is the day that Joyce met his wife. It holds a special place in his heart & thoughts. Somehow he wants to share this special day with all of us and keep it alive forever.
PSS: June 16th is my husband's birthday. I didn't meet him on this day but we celebrate it every year. :D .......perhaps we'll start calling his birthday celebrations, Bloom Day celebrations! LOL! Guiness for everyone!!! :D
Just finished episode 3 and really think I should re-read it. One line jumped out at me that I am wondering about "Ah, poor dogsbody. Here lies poor dogsbody's body." Is Stephen thinking about his own death? Mulligan calls him dogsbody and Stephen seems to be relating to the body of the dog lying all alone and abandoned on the beach.I also like the word ineluctable - that from which one cannot escape, even by struggling. To struggle would then be senseless. We have discussed here how Stephen appears spineless and weak. Perhaps he has come to the conclusion that his life, his friends, his job, are ineluctable?
One more thought, part of Stephen's musings are about the tower. He decides he won't sleep there tonight, Buck has the key, and they will be there waiting. Who will do the clearing up? Stephen continues his walk with the thought "Take all, keep all." He seems so frustrated and unhappy with his home life that he is willing to just walk away.
Nice observations, Evelyn! Yeah, Joyce has gone way out of his way to make us see Stephen as disillusioned, broken and defeated. This is one man at a cross-roads that will determine the rest of his life. If he's not thrown a lifeline soon, he'll drown.
Nice catch on the use of "dogsbody"! This very much seems to tie into Stephen's mental mindset.
I like the use of "ineluctable"! I hadn't looked up the definition; just assumed its meaning but it really fits perfectly into what Joyce is saying about Stephen's mental situation.
When I first read this book, I hadn't read The Odyssey and didn't miss having done so. I saw Ulysses as a story on its own. And it is. There's no doubt about it being its own story. Yet, now that I've read The Odyssey, I can see definite parallels between the two stories. That may change when we start to follow Bloom but Stephen's story is very parallel to Telemachus' story. Both sons miss their father and are bombarded by outside influences that steal their money, land and independence. Both are insecure, feel under pressure and unsure. Both are on a journey to find themselves and their place in the world.
I really enjoy how Joyce is pulling us into June 16th. I hadn't noticed that before. In the case of Stephen, he's pulled us into his mind and, in a way, made us part of Stephen. It's rather well done (LOL!....I'm sure the Joyce experts would be happy that I agree with them. LOL!).
Reading this book is like peeling back layers of an onion. You'll cry (it's so hard at times) but with every layer peeled away you'll see more into the depths, too. I think by the sixth or tenth reading of this book, you'd get pretty close to whatever it is that Joyce is truly trying to do and say. :D
Robin wrote: "I was struck by the repetition of the colors yellow and gold in this section, rather than green."I agree with you Robin. I also read that the episode 3 colour is green, but I also felt bombarded by yellow and gold. And white.
Huh! I plan on skimming Episode 3 again and will keep an eye out for white, gold and yellow. That completely went over my head. Ooops......That's one of the nice things about reading this book in a group. Not only is it fun to have such good company but everyone notices different things. :D
I fought my way through Episode 3. Definitely not an easy read. But I did it and I understood it (after continuous skimming). The most striking feature in the Episode, I find, is the writing style. Jumping from subject to subject, memories to present time, and from contemplation to contemplation. Episode three wasn't the most eventful, but it did provide a lot of information about Stephen, which really got me to see him as even more complex than before.
The constant switching from language to language was most frustrating since I could only read the French comments, and had to google nearly everything else.
Charbel, my version has all the translations in the notes section which is very handy. I have enjoyed testing my recollection of high school French and then checking to see how close I came. As I was in the Class of '86, a very long time to remember a language I don't use, I am quite pleased with how close my own translations are.
I knew that Ulysses was originally unpublished because it was considered obscene. I wonder how much of the objections were about its view of the Catholic Church?I hadn't expected there to be so many scurrilous comments about the church and religion. It seems to be the sort of humour that I can imagine a group of young men taking part in amongst themselves, but I imagine it was quite shocking for people to see it in writing.
Found this link showing why it was once a banned book. Found it interesting. http://bannedbooks.world.edu/2012/02/...
I listened to chapter 3 on audio and went over most of it 3 times. I think I could listen many more, as I know I still missed things but some of it is just so lovely to hear washing over you (like the tide). I speak French so that wasn't a problem, but I was confused as to how that episode fit into Stephen's life and never caught the name of his friend till I saw it written here. Maybe I'll get a text and after I listen to a section I'll look at that too.
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Glad to have you join us, Scamel. Together, we can all make it through this book (I hope).