You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

93 views
Challenges: Monthly > August 2014 - World Wonder Feats (Reporting Thread)

Comments Showing 1-50 of 97 (97 new)    post a comment »
« previous 1

message 1: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments Score and report your books for the August 2014 challenge in this thread.

A reminder of the scoring criteria:

Scoring: (Count all qualifiers that apply)

Genre:
5 points – Historical Fiction
4 points – Mystery
3 points – Memoir/Biography
2 points – Science Fiction
1 point – Romance

Author:
5 points - Born or resides in the main setting of the book.
4 points – Initial of last name is W O N D E or R.
3 points – Is deceased.
2 points – Is female.
1 point – Is new to you.

Title:
5 points – Is two words long. (Sub-titles don't count.)
4 points – Has the proper name of a person or place in it. (Specify if not obvious.)
3 points – Is a play on words.
2 points – Have two or more words starting with the same letter (exclude a, the, but, or, etc.)
1 point – Starts with the word "The"

Cover: (based on the edition you read)
5 points – Has a picture of the Seventh Wonder on it.
4 points – Has a sun, moon, or stars on it.
3 points – Author's name is larger than title.
2 points – Has just words on it.
1 point – Blue is a predominant colour (over 50% of the cover).

Setting:
7 points - Set in Jordan
6 points - Set in Peru
5 points - Set in Italy
4 points - Set in Brazil
3 points - Set in India
2 points - Set in Mexico
1 point - Set in China

Pages:
5 pts - 600 - 1000 pages
4 pts - 500 - 599 pages
3 pts - 400 - 499 pages
2 pts - 300 - 399 pages
1 pts - 200 - 299 pages

Bonus points:

3 points - If the book mentions the Seventh Wonder and not just set in the country of the Seventh Wonder.
3 points - For International Beer Day, add 3 points if there is a drunkard in the story (may only count once)
3 points - For Bad Poetry Day, add 3 points if there is a poem in the book (may only count once, and must be quoted)
3 points - Pony Express Day, add 3 points if there is a live horse in the book (may only count once)


message 2: by Thing Two (new)

Thing Two (thingtwo) First paragraph of a new book and the Great Wall is mentioned. It's a Chunker-Challenge book, of course. #ihaterules


message 3: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments LOL! What's a challenge with no rules? #suckitupbuttercup :)


message 4: by Liz (last edited Aug 03, 2014 09:21PM) (new)

Liz   (lizvegas) | 504 comments I read Chasing the Sun: A Novel Natalia Sylvester Chasing the Sun A Novel by Natalia Sylvester
setting: Peru

my review here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

My points:

Genre:
4 points – Mystery

Author:
5 points - Born in Peru
2 points – Is female.
1 point – Is new to you.

Title: 0 points

Cover:
?4 points – Has "sun" in the title (does this count?)

Setting:
6 points - Set in Peru

Pages:
2 pts - 304 pages

Bonus points:
3 points - Macchu Picchu mentioned as the main character reminisces about his honeymoon that was taken there.

Total points: 27
(or 23 points if the word "sun" does not count for cover)


message 5: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments I was thinking image for the cover, but I didn't specify that. Ah... why not? Words will count too. So 27 points! :)


message 6: by Travis (last edited Aug 05, 2014 03:48AM) (new)

Travis (travistousant) | 6011 comments The Gates of Rome
I'm using the cover which audible is using but can't find a match for it on goodreads

Historical Fiction 5
new author to me 1
Rome in title 4
The 1
Name larger than title 3
Italy 5
448 pages 3
Drunkard 3
live horse 3

28 points


message 7: by Liz (new)

Liz   (lizvegas) | 504 comments Janice wrote: "I was thinking image for the cover, but I didn't specify that. Ah... why not? Words will count too. So 27 points! :)"

Either way works for me!


message 8: by jaxnsmom (last edited Aug 06, 2014 12:38PM) (new)

jaxnsmom | 8271 comments I read Honor Lost Love And Death In Modern Day Jordan by Norma Khouri Honor Lost: Love And Death In Modern Day Jordan which is set in Jordan. This book was written and published in 2002 as a memoir, but was exposed as a hoax in 2004. I am so pissed at this book!

Genre:
3 points – Memoir/Biography
I don't know what to do about this one. I read it believing it was a memoir, and today discovered it was a hoax.

Author:
5 points - Born in Jordan, but lied about residency - family moved to US in1973.
2 points – Is female - One true thing.
1 point – Is new to you - and is now dead to me.

Title:
5 points – Is two words long. But should really be 'Your Honor Lost After Reading This and The Discovering It Really Was a Hoax"

Setting:
7 points - Set in Jordan

Pages:
1 pt - 200 - 299 pages

Bonus points:

3 points - If the book mentions the Seventh Wonder and not just set in the country of the Seventh Wonder.

Points: 27


message 9: by Thing Two (new)

Thing Two (thingtwo) Daisy Miller by Henry James Daisy Miller by Henry James

24 points

Genre:
1 point – Romance
Author:
3 points – Is deceased
Setting:
5 points - set in Italy
Title:
5 points – Is two words long
4 points – Has the proper name of a person in it
Bonus points:
3 points - if there is a live horse in the book
3 points - if the book mentions the Seventh Wonder


message 10: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments jaxnsmom wrote: "I read Honor Lost Love And Death In Modern Day Jordan by Norma Khouri Honor Lost: Love And Death In Modern Day Jordan which is set in Jordan. This book was written and published ..."

I'll give you the 3 points for memoir. Sorry it was so disappointing!


message 11: by Lucy (last edited Aug 06, 2014 12:34PM) (new)

Lucy Furr (lucyfurr) | 775 comments Finished I, Claudius: from the autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, born 10 B.C., murdered and deified A.D. 54.

I enjoyed reading it, though I have to say it is a pretty dense, wordy book, which made for slower reading. With my insomnia, I can usually finish a 500 page book in 3 days, but this took double. Either way, still an enjoyable read. Will likely read the sequel at some point.

POINTS:

Genre:
5pts, Historical Fiction

Author:
3pts, Is Deceased
1pt, Is New To Me

Title:
5pts, Is Two Words
4pts, Title Has Proper Name

Cover:
1pt, is blue

Setting:
5pts, Italy

Pages:
3pts, 400-499 Pgs

Bonus Points:

3pts, Has a few drunks mentioned
3pts, a couple poems are recited
3pts, plenty of horses

Total Points: 36

At first I was surprised that there hadn't been any mentions of the Colosseum yet, then it slowly dawned on me as I read that, DUH, it hadn't been built yet. LOL!


message 12: by jaxnsmom (new)

jaxnsmom | 8271 comments Janice wrote: "I'll give you the 3 points for memoir. Sorry it was so disappointing!"

Thanks! I edited my post for you.


message 13: by Anna (new)

Anna Kļaviņa (annamatsuyama) | 1098 comments Tell A Thousand Lies by Rasana Atreya

Tell A Thousand Lies by Rasana Atreya

Genre:
0

Author:
5 points - Born or resides in the main setting of the book.
2 points – Is female.
1 point – Is new to you.

Title:
2 points – Have two or more words starting with the same letter (exclude a, the, but, or, etc.)


Cover: (based on the edition you read)
0

Setting:
3 points - Set in India

Pages:
2 pts - 352 pages

Total: 15


message 14: by Valerie (new)

Valerie | 3 comments Just finished reading Wild Swans: Three Daughters of China by Jung Chang for my first challenge! It was an amazing book. A bit sad/scary in parts but ultimately uplifting (in part because of the author's wit and the beautiful imagery she creates of the Chinese landscape). I really came to love Chang's family and friends through reading this book.

Genre
3 - Memoir/Biography

Author
5 - Born in the main setting of the book (China)
2 - Is female
1 - Is new to me

Title
5 - Two words long (Wild Swans)

Cover
0

Setting
1 - China

Pages
4 - 500-599 pages (544 pages)

Bonus points
3 - Mentions the Seventh Wonder -- The Great Wall was mentioned several times.
3 - Bad Poetry Day -- A couple of poems were quoted.
3 - International Beer Day -- one person came to work with Jung Chang's family to escape her alcoholic husband.

Total Points: 30 (If my math is correct).


message 15: by Ava Catherine (new)

Ava Catherine | 4258 comments A Walk Across the Sun by Corban Addison A Walk Across the Sun by Corban Addison

Genre:
5: historical fiction
Author:
1: is new to you
Title:
4: has proper name of place: sun
Cover:
2: has just words
1: Blue is a predominant color
Setting:
3: Set in India
Pages:
3: 400-499
Bonus:
3: has a drunkard
3: several poems are quoted
3: has 2 live horses

Total Points: 28


Theresa~OctoberLace (octoberlace) | 1090 comments Bel Canto by Ann Patchett

Genre:
0 points – doesn't fit given categories

Author:
2 points – Is female.

Title:
5 points – Is two words long. (Sub-titles don't count.)

Cover: (based on the edition you read)
I listened to the audiobook.
2 points – Has just words on it.
1 point – Blue is a predominant colour (over 50% of the cover).
Bel Canto by Ann Patchett

Setting:
6 points - Set in Peru

Pages:
2 pts - 300 - 399 pages

Bonus points: 0

Total: 18 points


message 17: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments Wow! Everyone is doing so great! I've tracked to this point.


message 18: by Debra (new)

Debra (debra_t) | 6542 comments The Seven Wonders. They visit the seven wonders of the ANCIENT world, so only one of them counts and I get no points for it: The Great Pyramid.

Genre:
5 points – Historical Fiction
4 points – Mystery


Author:
1 point – Is new to you.

Title:
1 point – Starts with the word "The"

Cover: (based on the edition you read)
3 points – Author's name is larger than title.
1 point – Blue is a predominant colour (over 50% of the cover).

Setting:
0 points

Pages:
2 pts - 300 - 399 pages


Bonus points:

3 points - If the book mentions the Seventh Wonder and not just set in the country of the Seventh Wonder.
3 points - For Bad Poetry Day, add 3 points if there is a poem in the book (may only count once, and must be quoted)
3 points - Pony Express Day, add 3 points if there is a live horse in the book (may only count once)

26 points


message 19: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments Good choice, Debra. I love the title.


message 20: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments I finished Appointment with Death which was set in Petra, Jordan.

Genre:
4 points – Mystery

Author:
3 points – Is deceased.
2 points – Is female.

Title:
0 points

Cover: (based on the edition you read) Appointment with Death (Hercule Poirot, #19) by Agatha Christie
5 points – Has a picture of the Seventh Wonder on it.
3 points – Author's name is larger than title.

Setting:
7 points - Set in Jordan

Pages:
1 pts - 256 pages

Bonus points:

3 points - If the book mentions the Seventh Wonder and not just set in the country of the Seventh Wonder.
3 points - For Bad Poetry Day
3 points - Pony Express Day, add 3 points if there is a live horse in the book


Total Points: 34


message 21: by Peggy, Moderator (new)

Peggy (pebbles84) | 15384 comments I read Like Water for Chocolate Like Water for Chocolate by Laura Esquivel

Genre:
1 point – Romance

Author:
5 points - Born or resides in the main setting of the book.
4 points – Initial of last name is W O N D E or R.
2 points – Is female.
1 point – Is new to you.

Title:
0 points

Cover: (based on the edition you read)
0 points

Setting:
2 points - Set in Mexico

Pages:
1 pts - 200 - 299 pages

Bonus points:
3 points - For International Beer Day, add 3 points if there is a drunkard in the story (may only count once)
3 points - For Bad Poetry Day, add 3 points if there is a poem in the book (may only count once, and must be quoted)
3 points - Pony Express Day, add 3 points if there is a live horse in the book (may only count once)


Total: 25 points


message 22: by Cherie (last edited Aug 23, 2014 12:05AM) (new)

Cherie (crobins0) | 20272 comments I read The Grammarian The Grammarian by Annapurna Potluri by Annapurna Potluri
My review. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Genre:
5 points – Historical Fiction

Author:
2 points – Is female.
1 point – Is new to you.

Title:
5 points – Is two words long.
4 points – Has the proper name of a person or place in it. (Grammarian)
1 point – Starts with the word "The"

Cover: (based on the edition you read)
1 point – Blue is a predominant colour (over 50% of the cover).

Setting:
3 points - Set in India

Pages:
1 pts – 272 pages

Bonus points:
3 points – Taj Mahal is mentioned in the book
3 points – there is a drunkard in the story
3 points - there is a poem in the book: “The valiant Egas, as god appears /To proud Castile the suppliant noble bows /And faithful homage for his prince he vows.”
3 points - horses pulled the carriage, and polo ponies

Total = 35 points


message 23: by Almeta (last edited Aug 13, 2014 06:43PM) (new)

Almeta (menfrommarrs) | 10359 comments Appointment with Death
Petra, Jordan

4 pts – Mystery Genre
3 pts – Author is deceased
2 pts – Author is female
5 pts – Cover has a picture of red cliffs of Petra
Appointment with Death (Hercule Poirot, #19) by Agatha Christie
4 pts – Cover has a sun on it.
3 pts – Author's name is larger than title.
7 pts - Set in Jordan
2 pts - 303 pages
3 pts - Mentions Petra, Jordan
3 pts - Travel to Petra can only be accomplished on horseback
3 pts - quoting a poem in the book

Fear no more the heat o' the sun,
Nor the furious winter's rages;
Thou thy worldly task hast done,
Home art gone, and ta'en thy wages; ~ William Shakespeare's Cymbeline

39 Total Points


message 24: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments Tracked to here....

Almeta, the editions we read caused the difference in our points. Off to see if you rated/reviewed.


message 25: by Almeta (last edited Aug 14, 2014 05:42AM) (new)

Almeta (menfrommarrs) | 10359 comments Janice wrote: "Almeta, the editions we read caused the difference in our points. Off to see if you rated/reviewed."

Hmm, so mine had more accommodating cover art and 47 more pages. Bigger words? lol

Almeta's Review of Appointment with Death


message 26: by Debra (new)

Debra (debra_t) | 6542 comments Janice wrote: "Good choice, Debra. I love the title."

It turned out to be much better than I expected. I may read more in the series. I liked the mysteries solved throughout the protagonist's journey to each of the wonders.


message 27: by Cherie (new)

Cherie (crobins0) | 20272 comments Janice, you did not take any bonus points for a poem, which would put you at 37. 1 point for more pages at 38, but I can't figure out the last point scanning up and down on my IPod. I'm getting dizzy as well as tired. Good night at 2am. :)


message 28: by Almeta (new)

Almeta (menfrommarrs) | 10359 comments Cherie wrote: "Janice, you did not take any bonus points for a poem, which would put you at 37. 1 point for more pages at 38, but I can't figure out the last point scanning up and down on my IPod. I'm getting di..."

She did take the poetry points, but the cover art had no picture of the sun.


message 29: by Thing Two (new)

Thing Two (thingtwo) Valerie wrote: "Just finished reading Wild Swans: Three Daughters of China by Jung Chang for my first challenge! It was an amazing book. A bit sad/scary in parts but ultimately uplifting ..."

Hey Valerie! I read Wild Swans for my Chunker challenge this month. Fascinating, wasn't it? I'm mulling over how to review it.


message 30: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments Almeta wrote: "Janice wrote: "Almeta, the editions we read caused the difference in our points. Off to see if you rated/reviewed."

Hmm, so mine had more accommodating cover art and 47 more pages. Bigger words?..."


Ah, you read the LARGE PRINT version. :)


message 31: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments I just didn't quote the poem, but I took the points. I should go back and add the poem, but I see Almeta quoted it, and I'm lazy so I'll use hers. :)


message 32: by Lanelle (last edited Aug 14, 2014 06:34PM) (new)

Lanelle | 3205 comments I read Midnight at the Taj Mahal by Brynn Olenberg Sugarman. I would say that its intended audience is the preteen age group.

Genre:
Science Fiction - 2 points (time travel)

Author:
4 points – Initial of last name is W O N D E or R. (It looks like she has one of those double last names. Let me know if you disagree, and I'll change my total.)
2 points – Is female
1 point – Is new to you

Title:
4 points – Has the proper name of a person or place in it
2 points – Have two or more words starting with the same letter (midnight and mahal)

Cover: (based on the edition you read)
5 points – Has a picture of the Seventh Wonder on it

Setting:
3 points - Set in India

Pages:
1 pts - 200 - 299 pages (202 pages)

Bonus:
3 points - the Taj Mahal is mentioned COUNTLESS times
no drunkards - (Hailey gets tipsy, but I wouldn't say she's drunk)
3 points - a poem in the book

"As the key fits the band, it will open the door
For Foreign youths, while time unfolds,
For youth sent to our ruler, imprisoned, and old -
Overthrown by his seed!
So that all may reverse, in the hour of his need.

At the midnight hour, when the moon is full,
Be swallowed by the Taj's pool.
Hold fast and strong to our ruler's words,
Towards scenes once seen,
And sounds once heard."

3 points - a live horse in the book (they ride in a carriage pulled by two horses, p. 44)

total - 33 points


message 33: by Poongothai (last edited Aug 15, 2014 12:30AM) (new)

Poongothai (poongsa) | 483 comments I have read Vittu Vidu Karuppa Vittu Vidu Karuppa by Indira Soundarrajan by Indira Soundarrajan

Genre:
4 points – Mystery

Author:
5 points - Born or resides in the main setting of the book. (India)
1 point – Is new to you.

Title:
5 points – Is two words long.
4 points – Has the proper name of a person or place in it. (Karuppa is a name of a village god and also a common name of a person in villages in South India)
2 points – Have two or more words starting with the same letter (two words beginning with V)

Cover:

Setting:
3 points - Set in India

Pages:
2 pts - 300 - 399 pages

Bonus points:
3 points - For Bad Poetry Day, add 3 points if there is a poem in the book (Each chapter begins by stating a poem)
3 points - Pony Express Day, add 3 points if there is a live horse in the book (horse plays an important role in the story)

Total : 32


message 34: by Lisa (last edited Aug 15, 2014 07:32AM) (new)

Lisa (lisathebooklover) | 9244 comments I read Blood and Beauty Blood and Beauty by Sarah Dunant by Sarah Dunant

Setting: Rome, Italy

GENRE:
Historical Fiction - 5 points

AUTHOR:
Initial of last name is WONDE or R - 4 points
Is female - 2 points
Is new to you - 1 point

TITLE:
Has two or more words starting with the same letter - 2 points

COVER: 0 points

SETTING:
Set in Italy - 5 points

PAGES:
500-599 pages (544pp) - 4 points

BONUS:
If the book mentions the Seventh Wonder and is not just set in the country of the Seventh Wonder (Colosseum) - 3 points

For International Beer Day, add three points if there is a drunkard in the story (Prince Djem is one example but there are a few others) - 3 points

Pony Express Day, add three points if there is a live horse in the book (there are lots of horses in this book) - 3 points


TOTAL - 32 points


message 35: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments Some great scores here!!


message 36: by Lara (last edited Aug 17, 2014 01:21PM) (new)

Lara | 1426 comments I read Appointment with Death Appointment with Death (Hercule Poirot, #19) by Agatha Christie by Agatha Christie

Genre:
4 points – Mystery

Author:
3 points – Is deceased.
2 points – Is female.

Title:
0 points

Cover: (based on the edition you read)
5 points – Has a picture of the Seventh Wonder on it.
4 points – Has a sun, moon, or stars on it.
3 points – Author's name is larger than title.

Setting:
7 points - Set in Jordan

Pages:
2 pts - 300 - 399 pages

Bonus points:
3 points - If the book mentions the Seventh Wonder and not just set in the country of the Seventh Wonder.
3 points - Pony Express Day, add 3 points if there is a live horse in the book (may only count once)
3 points - For Bad Poetry Day

Fear no more the heat o' the sun,
Nor the furious winter's rages;
Thou thy worldly task hast done,
Home art gone, and ta'en thy wages;
~ William Shakespeare's Cymbeline

TOTAL: 39 points


message 37: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments Lara - you missed the 3 points for the poem at the end of the book - so add 3. Deduct 1 because it's not a romance. Total points (agrees with the edition Almeta read) is 39 points.


message 38: by Lara (new)

Lara | 1426 comments Janice wrote: "Lara - you missed the 3 points for the poem at the end of the book - so add 3. Deduct 1 because it's not a romance. Total points (agrees with the edition Almeta read) is 39 points."

Thanks! I updated my post.


message 39: by Sarah, Moderator (new)

Sarah | 18196 comments I have just finished Inferno by Dan Brown which is predominantly set in Italy.
Inferno (Robert Langdon, #4) by Dan Brown

Genre: 4 points – Mystery
Cover: 3 points – Author's name is larger than title.
Setting: 5 points - Set in Italy
Pages: 3 pts - 400 - 499 pages (468pgs)
Bonus points:

3 points - For International Beer Day, add 3 points if there is a drunkard in the story - The Provost drank rather a lot of Single Malt Whiskey and therefore inebriated - can I count that?
3 points - For Bad Poetry Day, add 3 points if there is a poem in the book - Dante's The Divine Comedy was mentioned A LOT. I've included just one paragraph:
"CANTO XXV
If it should happen... if this sacred poem -
this work so shared by heaven and by earth
that it has made me lean through these long years
-
can ever overcome the cruelty
that bars me from the fair fold where I slept,
a lamb opposed to wolves that war on it..."

Total: 18 pts (21 pts if can have the 3 pts for the drunk)


message 40: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments Yes, 21 points Sarah! I'm glad you enjoyed the book.


message 41: by Sarah, Moderator (new)

Sarah | 18196 comments Thanks Janice! And as a bonus, I'm now up to date with another series!


message 42: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments Feels good doesn't it?


message 43: by Sarah, Moderator (new)

Sarah | 18196 comments Definitely. And it also means I can take on a new series!


message 44: by Kerri (last edited Aug 18, 2014 02:17PM) (new)

Kerri I read Snow Flower and the Secret Fan
Snow Flower and the Secret Fan by Lisa See
Genre: 5 points – Historical fiction
Author: 2 points – Female author
Title: 4 points - name of person in title
2 points- two words with same letter in title
Setting: 1 point - Set in China
Pages: 1 point - 200 - 299 pages
Bonus: 3 points - poetry in book
3 points - horse in book
Total 21 points.


message 45: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments Snow Flower was a 5 star read for me. What did you think of it?


message 46: by Kerri (new)

Kerri Janice wrote: "Snow Flower was a 5 star read for me. What did you think of it?"

I really enjoyed it too, such a hard life for Chinese girls back then. I made the mistake of googling foot binding as I just couldn't get my mind around that, wish I didn't, there are some terrible images there.


message 47: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments The foot binding part really affected me too, and I googled it as well. The book I just finished had a character in it whose feet were bound.


message 48: by Camilla (new)

Camilla | 2007 comments I finished Caligula: The Tyranny of Rome today.
Caligula The Tyranny of Rome (Rufus, #1) by Douglas Jackson
It got a bit better towards the end, I gave it three stars.

Genre: 5 points – Historical Fiction
Author: 1 point – Is new to you.
Title: 4 points – Has the proper name of a person or place in it.
Setting:
5 points - Set in Italy
Pages: 3 pts - 400 - 499 pages

Bonus points:
3 points - For International Beer Day, add 3 points if there is a drunkard in the story - wine flowed quite freely during the book and several characters were described as being drunk.
3 points - Pony Express Day, add 3 points if there is a live horse in the book - yes, there were horses, zebras, antilopes, lions and an elephant, LOL!

Total 24 points


message 49: by Kerri (new)

Kerri I've read about foot binding before but I think that's the first time I've read exactly what happens to their feet in the process, so barbaric. I peeked at what you just read, and that one is pretty high on my TBR list too.


message 50: by Janice, Moderator (new)

Janice (jamasc) | 49982 comments That's how I felt about it. I knew that children had their feet bound, but I had no idea of what was really involved.


« previous 1
back to top