Used and Abused: Words and Cliches

[Meagan]

I read a lot of paranormal romance and authors in this genre love describing things, that are not gender specific, as masculine or feminine. Nalini Singh is so guilty of this, with phrases like "his masculine heat", or "masculine breath" and (my favorite), "his masculine teeth". Teeth? Really? How does someone have masculine teeth?

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Meagan wrote: "I read a lot of paranormal romance and authors in this genre love describing things, that are not gender specific, as masculine or feminine. Nalini Singh is so guilty of this, with phrases like "hi..."

lolol!!

[Micah]

Clichés don't bother me nearly as much as misuses being adopted by supposedly smart media. The one that sets me totally on edge is one I've seen printed in headlines in major media outlets like the NY Times and Washington Post, as well as heard on National Public Radio in interviews, by news announcers, and in sponsor clips. It is this, "...graduate high school" or "...graduate university."

As in: "After these students graduate high school..."

NO! Students cannot graduate a high school. High schools graduate students not the other way around. And students graduate FROM high school!

I'm going to have to go on a serious ombudsman campaign next time I get triggered.

[David]

I've developed a pet peeve from editing my own writing: qualifiers such as "I believe", "I think", etc.

It can sometimes be used to strong effect, but is often overused. Ex:

It was the best of all possible outcomes.
vs.
It was, I thought, the best of all possible outcomes.

The latter phrasing can imply some level of self-doubt, or declare to the reader that the speaker might be an unreliable narrator, or just generally indicate that the speaking character is careful not to make universal declarations. There are many valid instances.

More often than not, however, the qualifier is unnecessary. If someone makes a declarative statement, the speaker's belief in that statement is implied.

"It's gonna be a beautiful day today."

Sure, the speaker might end up being wrong...but at the time that the character makes the statement, he or she believes it. Adding 'I think' or 'I believe' or some other qualifier just softens the character's conviction--often without purpose.

[Micah]

Another least favorite of mine is "alot."

What ticks me off about this one is that it's not even a word. "Allot" is a word. "A lot" is two words. But "alot" isn't even a thing (and the autocorrect on this browser automatically makes it two words so I'm thinking A LOT of people who use it are going out of their way to do so--not really but, you know, sometimes autocorrect is actually correct).

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Micah wrote: "Another least favorite of mine is "alot."

What ticks me off about this one is that it's not even a word. "Allot" is a word. "A lot" is two words. But "alot" isn't even a thing (and the autocorrect..."

This spurred a post by Allie Brosh of Hyperbole and a Half.



Here's her great post about it http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com...

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Allison wrote: "his spurred a post by Allie Brosh of Hyperbole and a Half.


Here's her great post about it http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com.."


That's what I think of every time I see someone use alot.

[Tomas]

Micah wrote: "sometimes autocorrect is actually correct"

Often it is, though what makes me go bonkers the last days is that MS Word obviously has issues with it's / its.

I think we could make a topic in author section about these struggles, both with autocorrect and with ourselves (thoughts faster than fingers leading to interesting amalgamations of words or phrases).

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

lol
I love that book.

[Sarah]

Meagan wrote: "I read a lot of paranormal romance and authors in this genre love describing things, that are not gender specific, as masculine or feminine. Nalini Singh is so guilty of this, with phrases like "hi..."

haha! Masculine teeth. Love it. But not really. If I read that in a book I'd probably throw it across the room.

[Micah]

Masculine teeth."

Those are the ones with little dangly bits.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Tomas wrote: "Micah wrote: "sometimes autocorrect is actually correct"

Often it is, though what makes me go bonkers the last days is that MS Word obviously has issues with it's / its.

I think we could make a t..."

Tomas, go for it!

Actually, real quick. Things I am a stickler about: 1. Kindness. 2. Following the rules for placement/promotion 3. Threads stay more or less on topic or evolve per the creator's intent. If anyone thinks of a good idea or has a question or anything, by all means, start a conversation! I'll back you up :)

LOL re: masculine teeth. Have you all seen the Bad Sex in Literature awards? They're continuously one of my favorite things on the internet.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Micah wrote: "Masculine teeth."

Those are the ones with little dangly bits."

lolol

[Tomas]

Allison wrote: "Tomas, go for it!"
It's 22:00 here in CEST timezone, it'll have to wait for tomorrow, unless someone else does it instead.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Tomas wrote: "Allison wrote: "Tomas, go for it!"
It's 22:00 here in CEST timezone, it'll have to wait for tomorrow, unless someone else does it instead."

PFFT! Slacker!

lol kidding. Night!

[Trike]

I’m reading Jade City currently and it’s quite well-written EXCEPT for the comma abuse. My god, there are so many, it’s as if, there had been a sale, on commas, at the, discount, comma, factory,,,,.

[Beth]

Jacqueline wrote: "I was just watching one of those stupid girls buying wedding dresses shows. The saleswoman said that the girl and her Mother were like "two bees in a pod". It's peas not bees...."

Haven't seen that one before, and at the risk of being drummed out of the thread, as eggcorns go I think that is pretty darn adorable.

Agreed on being skeptical about a character being able to read somebody else's mind just by looking in their eyes. And speaking of eyes, oh, the rolled eyes. One of my least favorites. Makes grown adult characters come across like five-year-olds.

And how about when everyone in a dialogue scene is constantly shrugging, grinning, nodding, frowning, rolling their eyes, etc., like they have a case of the fidgets.

[Donald]

Micah wrote: "Masculine teeth."

Those are the ones with little dangly bits."

Mine ooze testosterone.

It tastes kind of salty.

[Micah]

Saw this one on a youtube comment the other day (by the person posting the video): "...your results may very though."

[Jacqueline]

I always think of Hyperbole and a Half when I see alot too. It makes me laugh when I imagine what the Alot is made of.

[Michele]

“I don't mean to be rude—" he began, in a tone that threatened rudeness in every syllable.
"Yet, sadly, accidental rudeness occurs alarmingly often," Dumbledore finished the sentence gravely. "

*chortle* I love that line.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Speaking of descriptions and things - honestly, I gloss over a lot of these types of things. I've seen reviews which harp on the bad metaphors in books, and I can't say I notice them half the time. I just sort of write it off as poetic license.

But I do hate when descriptions get belabored.

The example I remember strongest is from Dune and Gurney's inkvine scar. Every effing time he was on the damn page there were lines about his inkvine scar. It started to make me twitch whenever I would encounter it... It got the point where I commented to my husband that I was going to scream if I heard it on more time.

He had said that he never really noticed it before, and he thought it was kind of funny that it was annoying me as much as it did. However, when he reread the book afterwards he was like, "You know, you're right. It's everywhere.... "


I'm reading a series right now where I'm getting really tired of being constantly reminded about how "pale, snow white" the lead Japanese-based* character is... and there's another character, who's a bit of a femme fatale assassin type, who is not only slim and pale and curvy, but has "bee stung lips". Don't worry - you won't be allowed to forget about her "bee stung lips" because they're mentioned every time the perspective switches to her.

Ya know... the more I think about this book, which is lauded (by some) for its strong female characters, the more I can't help but think how male gazey and weeaboo it is...

[CBRetriever]

braid tugging in Robert Jordan's books
chipped Limoges dog dish in Cara Black's mysteries set in paris

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

uuughhh Strong Female Protagonist. I'm coming to loathe that term. It always seems to mean either the hyper competent, badass, weapon-wielding chick who doesn't need no man (but falls apart promptly for one anyways) or the super cute manic pixie dream girl who can heal the world with her smile but doesn't know her own worth.

I cannot. I know we had a thing about this elsewhere so I will try not to rehash, but any time I see anything about a woman who "is tough and doesn't play by the rules" I need to take a walk and read the first couple pages with a lighter in my hand, just in case I need to banish the evil spirits in the book.

(I am also tired of the "doesn't play by the rules men, but they don't get called strong male protagonists, I think they're alphas? God, I'm so tired of alphas.)

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I also read exactly 1 paragraph of a book written in this year of our Lord 2018 that started "It was a dark night, dark like the depths of a cave."

[Micah]

Lilyn G. (Scifi and Scary) wrote: "...Razor sharp cheekbones..."

Opening paragraph from Dashiell Hammett's The Maltese Falcon:

"Samuel Spade’s jaw was long and bony, his chin a jutting v under the more flexible v of his mouth. His nostrils curved back to make another, smaller, v. His yellow-grey eyes were horizontal. The v motif was picked up again by thickish brows rising outward from twin creases above a hooked nose, and his pale brown hair grew down—from high flat temples—in a point on his forehead. He looked rather pleasantly like a blond satan."

The MC is a FREAK!!!

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Is the Maltese Falcon meant to be a parody? Because that sounds like a parody.

***

Allison - yeah... this "strong female protagonist" is definitely of the first stripe, and now her powers have been uber-amplified because (view spoiler)[she's preggers. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "Is the Maltese Falcon meant to be a parody? Because that sounds like a parody.

***

Allison - yeah... this "strong female protagonist" is definitely of the first stripe, and now her powers have be..."

Oh, LAWD.

LOL Micah!!

[Micah]

And, no, it's not really meant to be parody. That's just the way hardboiled detective books were written back then.

Reference also Raymond Chandler's Philip Marlowe, this one from Murder, My Sweet:

"I caught the blackjack right behind my ear. A black pool opened up at my feet. I dived in. It had no bottom. I felt pretty good - like an amputated leg."

W T F !?!

[Tomas]

Alison, great job with the comment on "strong female protagonist"!

As for bad metaphors... not sure if I will notice them, because English is my second language.

[Brian]

Tomas wrote: "Alison, great job with the comment on "strong female protagonist"!

As for bad metaphors... not sure if I will notice them, because English is my second language."
It's the use of "strong" I find silly. "Female protagonist" is enough. I mean, you wouldn't say "weak female protagonist". Or "weak male protagonist" for that matter.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Ehh...like all cliches, I think this one was born of a good place, a reaction to the Mina Harkers of the literary world who are confined by intellect, ability and/or society to be overlooked, overpowered and only really useful to set up revenge in a man's book. But like with dark and stormy nights or masculine teeth, we've somehow jumped from decent scene/character building to bad writing.

[Tomas]

Also, (father's name)-son second names on male characters (not sure how it's handled on females).
For some reason, I think that if second name had any importance, there would be real second name that would go down through generations.

Reminds me of the photo with Iceland (I believe) football team with every player being [something]son.
-----------
Brian, you are right. After all, weak people in books usually have two choices: become strong (underdog story) or die (no story in that case).

[Micah]

Tomas wrote: "...Reminds me of the photo with Iceland (I believe) football team with every player being [something]son..."

That's because (from Wikipedia): Icelandic names differ from most current Western family name systems by being patronymic or occasionally matronymic: they indicate the father (or mother) of the child and not the historic family lineage.

I.e. they don't typically use a common hereditary surname that's passed down generation to generation. Iceland is ... different.

[Tomas]

Yep, I know it's how it is in Iceland.
As I said, in fantasy, it gives me the feeling that the second name is not really important anyway and used for the sake of being used, like the "I am X Y, prepare to die" phrase instead of just name for more "dramatic entrance".

[Cheryl]

Oh I dunno. Weak female characters used to be the norm. Think of the princess/co-ed that needs to be rescued from the ogre/alien.

I avoid adventure books, and it looks like I do so with good reason. If the book is going to be about ppl kicking-ass, it's very likely to have some cliches that go along with that genre.

I look for books about people. If they have adventures, fine, but the fact that they're people is paramount.

I just finished War for the Oaks and that's got some bits that resemble bits we've seen elsewhere, but it's easy to overlook them. One test it passes with flying colors, *despite* the fact that it's got a strong romantic sub-plot, is the Bechdel test. Apply that to your reads if you're tired of fake strong women.

[CBRetriever]

they use dotter in Sweden and dottir in Iceland for female offspring

like this book: Kristin Lavransdatter
or
this author whom i really like: Yrsa Sigurðardóttir

[Donald]

Lilyn G. (Scifi and Scary) wrote: "I got on a rant about this last night when I was almost done with my current (YA) read.

Razor sharp cheekbones.

Argh."

They're also never on men, and for good reason - it doubles the way you can cut yourself shaving,

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Donald wrote: "Lilyn G. (Scifi and Scary) wrote: "I got on a rant about this last night when I was almost done with my current (YA) read.

Razor sharp cheekbones.

Argh."

They're also never on men, and for good ..."

Who knew that phoned-in descriptions were actually the result of thinking through the likely evolution of men over the years!

[Michele]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "...I can't help but think how male gazey and weeaboo it is... "

What on earth is "weeaboo"?! I love the word but have no idea what it means lol

[Michele]

Tomas wrote: "After all, weak people in books usually have two choices: become strong (underdog story) or die (no story in that case). "

*snort* Good point :)

[Becky]

Michele wrote: "colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "...I can't help but think how male gazey and weeaboo it is... "

What on earth is "weeaboo"?! I love the word but have no idea what it means lol"

" Weeaboo is a mostly derogatory slang term for a Western person who is obsessed with Japanese culture, especially anime, often regarding it as superior to all other cultures."

[Phrynne]

Becky wrote: " Weeaboo is a mostly derogatory slang term for a Western person who is obsessed with Japanese culture, especially anime, often regarding it as superior to all other cultures."

I love threads like this one. I learn so much!!!

[Tomas]

Yeah, any kind of these discussions about almost anything are really fun.
Give me more!

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Becky wrote: "Michele wrote: "colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "...I can't help but think how male gazey and weeaboo it is... "

What on earth is "weeaboo"?! I love the word but have no idea what it means..."


Thanks for the field assist, Becks! ^_^

[Brian]

"Penetrating blue eyes, sharp features and a proud bearing."
Sound familiar?

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Lilyn G. (Scifi and Scary) wrote: "Actually, all the books I've seen with the description - It has been on a man, lol."


Yeah. My first thought for razor sharp cheekbones is Roiben from Tithe.

[Becky]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "
Thanks for the field assist, Becks! ^_^"

My pleasure!

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

I just read a book where they were constantly talking about the hero's "razor sharp" cheekbones.

[Becky]

Now I'm picturing all of these dudes contouring their faces like Kim Kardashian.