Angels & Demons
discussion
Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion?
Bukky wrote: "I just take solace from the fact that a time like this have long been prophesied in the bible and I've been charged against itO bukky,keep that which is committed to thy trust,avoid profane and va..."
Bukky, I think this is one of the most worrying statements I have read in a long time. You sound like a crazed zealot. Its things like this that get said before someone goes on a rampage killing the "idolators".
I'm honestly worried about you now.
Cerebus wrote: "Anybody who thinks science and evolution aren't full of wonder, take a look at this...http://www.sciencefriday.com/videos/w..."
http://www.videobash.com/video_show/m...
I love cephalopods. They're so interesting.
I'd rather live in a world without money. Or, maybe, a world where I had money.
Money & commerce, that's what people really worship.
And science, instead of saving the world, helps make money.
Money & commerce, that's what people really worship.
And science, instead of saving the world, helps make money.
Maureen wrote: "Hazel wrote: "Cerebus wrote: "Maureen wrote: "I'll give you the pink pony explanation.:If I told you there was a pink pony behind your couch but everytime you looked he disappears to Guam so you ca..."Pah! You, and the rest of the Pink Pony Aggregate have no idea how to fight. I fear ye not.
James wrote: "I'd rather live in a world without money. Or, maybe, a world where I had money. Money & commerce, that's what people really worship.
And science, instead of saving the world, helps make money."
That's a somewhat ridiculous viewpoint, I certainly don't know anyone who worships money. Money is a means to an end, nothing more.
And, back to looking at videos of interesting, and pretty, things to do with science:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=driZo_...
hazel,don't any of you see pink elephants!hazel i asked my daughter to get the book by Michael Majerus called Melanism-evolutions in action and also the book on Moths--what is the elephant book? i thought it was by Kettlewell but not so- just a few pages according to her. what is that one about?
Hazel wrote: "Cerebus wrote: "Anybody who thinks science and evolution aren't full of wonder, take a look at this...http://www.sciencefriday.com/videos/w..."
http://www.videobash.com/video_show/m......"
Ah! The children of dread Cthulhu! Now there's a god that worshiping does no good at all, Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!!!
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Hazel wrote: "Cerebus wrote: "Anybody who thinks science and evolution aren't full of wonder, take a look at this...http://www.sciencefriday.com/videos/w..."
http://www.videobash.com/vi..."
Ia Ia Cthulhu fhtagn.
Personally, I think that the cthulhu cult (and the other cults that Lovecraft invented for his fiction) was a commentary on the self destructive nature of religion and worship, and that by dedicating yourself to a supernatural being, you are essentially "feeding" yourself to them, and that that way madness lies.
I think there is more "evidence" for Cthulhu's (and Nyarlathotep's) involvement in world events than there is for any other diety.OK...maybe Eris is a prime mover too...but my money is on squid head and chums.
And when they awake, I shall dance with the Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young. Ia Ia Shub-Niggurath!
How did we go from the church of my little pony to Cthulhu in a page?Not sure if I'm impressed or deeply concerned.
Travis wrote: "How did we go from the church of my little pony to Cthulhu in a page?Not sure if I'm impressed or deeply concerned."
A little from column A, a little from column B?
Its obvious really, my little pony is an abberration, that have messages in the form of pictures on their rumps, which a sign sent by the deep ones to let us know that they are stirring. The deep ones want their followers so much, that they are leaving messages for them in a form that the followers can use as a mount to ride to the designated place in time for the stars being right, so that they may offer themselves up to the Old Ones, and live forever in maniacal bliss.
I Think, after that picture, I'm going to go with deeply concerned.
As valid a mythology as any...and with added tentacles.Now...everyone use "eldritch", "cyclopean", "squamous" and "rugose" in conversation today in homage to the nameless horrors.
Hazel wrote: "Travis wrote: "How did we go from the church of my little pony to Cthulhu in a page?Not sure if I'm impressed or deeply concerned."
A little from column A, a little from column B?
Its obvious r..."
Smashing photo.
Taken in the wild? Between the spheres?
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "As valid a mythology as any...and with added tenticles.Now...everyone use "eldritch", "cyclopean", "squamous" and "rugose" in conversation today in homage to the nameless horrors."
that will make my trip to the dentists interesting...
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Smashing photo. Taken in the wild? Between the spheres? ."
unfortunately, I cannot claim to have taken the photograph, I am not so blessed as to have seen a wild cthulhupony.
Hazel wrote: "unfortunately, I cannot claim to have taken the photograph, I am not so blessed as to have seen a wild cthulhupony."It is as valid as proof as the shroud of Turin...
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Hazel wrote: "unfortunately, I cannot claim to have taken the photograph, I am not so blessed as to have seen a wild cthulhupony."It is as valid as proof as the shroud of Turin..."
well, they are both photographs
Hazel wrote: "well, they are both photographs ..."
Good catch...I think you may have the same ref texts lying about as those in my Library Of Discord.
Nah, I just enjoy documentaries.
Hazel wrote:Its things like this that get said before someone goes on a rampage killing the "idolators"Hazel if I were a fanatic,you would already be xxxx by now.I'm not a fanatic and believe me, I enjoy such intelligent and healthy arguments.
I just do as much as defend my faith by any means necessary anyway.LOL
Bukky wrote: "Hazel wrote:Its things like this that get said before someone goes on a rampage killing the "idolators"Hazel if I were a fanatic,you would already be xxxx by now.I'm not a fanatic and believe me, ..."
you're still sounding like a fanatic. And no, I wouldn't be XXXX(?) by now, because you have no way of getting to me.
Any means necessary means you'd be willing to blow my head off with a rifle then?
its also interesting that you picked out that bit, rather than thinking how nice it is that I actually worry about you. Not worry as in "scared of you" but worry as in worried about your well being.
Hazel wrote: "Travis wrote: "How did we go from the church of my little pony to Cthulhu in a page?Not sure if I'm impressed or deeply concerned."
A little from column A, a little from column B?
Its obvious r..."
Thanks for the pic, It's certainly changed my outlook on life, the universe and everything.
Alright Hazel, thank you so much for your concern but I can assure you,you have nothing to worry about.I was just being........just talking.
LOL! I for one am impressed!
I refuse to choose one or the other. They are both vital. You state that the lesson of the book is that extremism in any form is dangerous and yet you are asking us to be extreme by choosing either science or religion. I know there is an ongoing battle between science and religion, but I think this battle is pointless. Hopefully someday people will realize that science and religion don't have to contradict each other.
As the kids are fond of saying:*headdesk*
Julie, I don't think that is the intent of the question. And, they're NOT both vital. Religion was invented by humankind because they didn't have the knowledge that we have today, and they wanted something that would comfort them and so they tried to explain by myth. Remember, religions are OLD, and were developed when humankind was still young itself. We've grown since then. It's not being extreme at all by making a choice and stating which you prefer. Personally, I've lived without religion since I quit going to church with my parents at the age of 15 or 16. Has that done me any harm? Not in the least, and I'm most definitely not an extremist of any kind. In fact, I would consider myself a bit of an extremist if I were to believe that a man gave birth to a woman in a garden via his rib. Now, that's a bit extreme.
Religion has always trumpeted their opposition to certain scientific advances, and where did that really get them? They aren't big enough or strong enough or powerful enough to stop it. Oppression simply does not work in today's world, as we are seeing right this minute in Arab Spring! Long live the irrepressible human mind.
I like myth. In fact, it fascinates me. But do I "BELIEVE" the actual myth story? No, not at all, it's the lesson or the moral that is important. What I truly detest about religion is the lies and the manipulation of naive followers who just swallow it up so ignorantly. Plus, it's scary. I also hate the biases against women. Those old lies have to be put to death soon.
connie- i agree with everything you said--as i grow older i think we should stop trying to convince believers of the error of their ways.it does no good.when you are taught something as a child from people that have great influence on you it is very difficult to change that view-the fear that some religions teach their followers is one of the ways they keep them in the fold. fear of burning in HELL forever or of not going to Heaven paralyses the mind.as knowledge grows the influence of religion hopefully will wane.one of the problems is the lack of teaching in American school of science and mathematics and the ability to READ!
Agreed, Bunnie and thanks. I can so clearly remember asking questions about what I learned as a little girl in Sunday School and from my parents. My parents were by no means 'fear mongers', yet what they taught their kids was what they themselves had had pounded into their little heads. I believed that every time I told a lie, a little piece of my heart turned black and died. If I lied, I got a black mark on my heart, if I stole, I got another one. If I disobeyed, the black mark grew bigger and bigger. This belief caused me no small amount of anxiety as a little child and I thought that my badness was going to make me die some day, at least I knew that I had disobeyed enough times to surely end up in hell...whatever and wherever that was. No, I would never bring up a kid thinking that trash. It's poison!
Who has made the greatest contribution to the growth of humanity around the world ... Steve Jobs or the Pope? Personally, I would much rather reside in a world free of religious bigotry than give up my ipad or iphone!
I think one of the problems with this discussion is it's binary nature, an assumption that they do the same thing.They do not.
Religion is more akin to football than science...in the West of Scotland it can actually be the same thing with all the related bigotry and lunacy. Having said that, even without the religous aspect you'd still have the crazees...all adds to the fun of the game...allegedly.
Connie wrote: "Incidentally the pope can ___________________. (Fill in the blank.)"
...prove his faith by hiding behind bullet proof glass...
...threaten excommunication against anyone who is honest about the child abuse scandal...
...get an all expense paid trip around the world to spread his bullshit...
...shit in the woods.
Bukky wrote: "Alright Hazel, thank you so much for your concern but I can assure you,you have nothing to worry about.I was just being........just talking."You're welcome... however, you were just being... what? Don't leave obvious clues that you were going to say something else. What you were being is a dick. Either you really believe these things, and what you say is what you intend, thus if you'll use "any means necessary" you're one step away from deciding that killing a child you believe to be a witch is acceptable. Which means you're a dick. OR you're saying what you saying to be a troll, and to create a reaction, in which case, you're a dick.
So, either you're so obtuse as to not realise that throwing scripture at us, and scripture you've changed to suit your purpose at that, is as pointless as quoting Tolkein, Twilight or See Spot Run at us. Or you have decided that you're simply out for a reaction. If the first, really, read some better books, if the second, don't post, trolls are never welcome anywhere.
Hazel wrote: "...prove his faith by hiding behind bullet proof glass..."The only "barrier protection" that he allows.
What happened to all the proper popes? The ones that turned convents into brothels, took armies to war, employed good artists, had loads of sex? Don't make 'em like they used to...
Anyway, patriarchs are too easy targets and just allow other god botherers of different sects to join in thinking they're righteous and hunting heretics.
I've got another oneThe pope can be... married
well, at least technically, in that modern canon law allows the college of cardinals to elect a married man to the papacy. (bearing in mind that wikipedia is the only source I've found so far that states this, then this may be inaccurate)
Religious violence:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-ca...
Buggy related drive by haircuts in the Amish community...
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Religious violence:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-ca...
Buggy related drive by haircuts in the Amish community..."
I know I shouldn't laugh, because to them its a massive insult to cut their hair off, but I can't help it, its just too ridiculous.
My mam once postulated the idea that if there is a holy grail, that it was Mary Magdalene, the woman who is the receptacle for Jesus's "blood", ie children. Its an interesting idea, but of course, as with all religious postulations, is completely without any requirement to buy into it.Also, you're idea about him marrying is one repeated in the film Dogma, again a brilliant film, watch it if you haven't seen it. Of course its ridiculous to think that a man in Judea 2000yrs ago didn't get married and have sex, its completely insane to think that. As proved over and over, even priests can't manage to go without sex, there are lists of popes who had children out there on the net.
Tom Holt in Grailblazers, decided the grail was... actually no, I'm not gonna reveal what his take on it was, its a comedy fiction book, and its brilliant in its wit and farce. Read it if you haven't, you'll love what the Holy Grail turns out to be, and also the story of santa claus that's in there.
And of course, this is all fiction, so no need for any Christians to take offence at fictional works taking the mickey out of their beliefs.
As for your first question... my other half may have something to say about that :P
LOL @ Hazel. Don't worry I'm as straight as an arrow, but I do love your brain. :-DYour Mam had insight that lots of people of "older" generations lack.
Thanks for the recommendations, I'm going to seek out Dogma and Grailblazers. Love that kind of stuff!
Dogma is a Kevin Smith film, so if you've seen anything with Jay and Silent Bob, you'll have a reasonable idea of the sort of humour to expect. If you haven't, I suggest you watch all his films, as they're great.LOL @ Hazel. Don't worry I'm as straight as an arrow, but I do love your brain. :-D
If I remember when I'm old and dying, I'll leave it to you in my will :P
Hazel wrote: "Dogma is a Kevin Smith film, so if you've seen anything with Jay and Silent Bob, you'll have a reasonable idea of the sort of humour to expect. If you haven't, I suggest you watch all his films, as..."Dogma is one of my favorite Kevin Smiths, followed closely by Clerks of course!
I loved Dogma, it's right up there with Life of Bryan (Monty Python)! I've never laughed so hard. See .... I'm still laughing just thinking about them,
Folks, if Dogma floated your boat try and hunt down Preacher, Vol. 1: Gone to Texas and the rest of the series. Smith wanted to make a movie of it, ended up doing Dogma due to assorted production and legal reasons. A film more solidly based on it is in the pre-production stages by all accounts.It strikes me as odd as the only folk defending religion are christians (of whatever stylee)...where are all the buddhists, muslims, jews, rastafarians, druids, hindus, sikhs etc?
Is it only christians that get all hot and bothered by the question?
I know they can be an easy target, especially easy to get "a rise" out of the more fundamental creationist types...where are all the other god botherers? They can't all be moderate in their beliefs can they?
I think it is only the christians, Barbar. In Judaism it is greatly encouraged to question to your heart's content. Not sure about the other religions you mention, but I'm sure Buddhism would tolerate questioning as well. I'm about to read God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything (2007), by Christopher Hitchens. I'm looking forward to finding out what he has to say.
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Them's fightin' words!