The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion
2000-2014
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What SF are you reading now, 2000-2014?
-Too like the lightning.-That is what she said.
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I really liked Too Like The Lightning. It is a very rich universe that Palmer create and I like how she plays with langage and narrative styles. Her references to the Enlightenment was also a nice touch.My only real problem is (view spoiler)
I finished The Speed of Dark by Elizabeth Moon. I gave it 4 stars although it gets a bit boring at times. Most of the story is told through the inner monologue of an autistic character, and Moon does a great job of really putting us into the character's thoughts. The ending gives us a lot to think about - what constitutes "normal" human behavior?Also, I started reading Redshirts by John Scalzi.
Mod
-That is what she said.
Sorry. Couldn't resist."
Well, it seems like you had no problem understanding the English, there! In English, when a title has some strange phrasing, there is a good chance it will turn out to be a quote from Shakespeare or the Bible. English has changed a lot from those days and I find both of those hard to understand.
Do you also read any SF by French authors? I sometimes do, and maybe I will need to ask you for a clarification of a word or two someday.
I just forgot tha "too" can mean trop and not just aussi in French. Brain fart. I do not read much French sci-fi authors as they are really famous for it, aside from Verne. Angst with prostitutes, now that is French literature!
I am sitting on Babylon Babies by Maurice G. Dantec and The Possibility of an Island by Michel Houellebecq. Maybe I'll get to them at some point.
Ask away for words. No prob.
Mod
Nobody reads French SF because it isn't popular. And it isn't popular because nobody reads it.
Except Planet of the Apes, of course.
I found a few authors that I like, mostly ones who do really weird stuff. You can check my shelf of sf-francaise if you are curious.
The one I'm reading now actually does have angsty prostitutes. They are some sort of virtual-reality prostitutes that also function as slot machines. If you are lucky enough, you can win things from them. (I'm only half-way through and don't really like this one.)
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I was only bored in the section where he goes into a church and thinks things over from a religious perspective. That simply doesn't appeal to me. And I don't love the end. But I very much enjoyed it overall.
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I just finished the sequel. I liked it even more. Events really escalate quickly! Important characters die. Some secrets are revealed. I will definitely get the 3rd one when it is available.
Three that I have on my Kindle right now are; Pushing Ice by Alistair Reynolds (2007). The Girl With All the Gifts by MR Carey (2014). Too Like the Lighting by Ada (2016).
I was reading The Rook by Daniel O'Malley but it was so boring I finally had to kick it. I don't kick books very often - heck, I even finished The Stars Are Legion which was pretty bad. But this one was so boring I found myself avoiding reading. That's pretty bad. My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Mod
...all the Gifts is quite fun. I was pleasantly surprised.
I agree with Ed about The Girl with All the Gifts. I was very pleasantly surprised since I'm burned out on zombies. Unique & good.
Mod
Hey! Saying "zombies" is a spoiler! I probably wouldn't have read it if I had know they were in it. But, it is a really unique sort of zombie story, so don't be scared away if you think you don't like zombie stories.
Yes it's a great book. The movie is not that good.
Sorry, Ed. I thought that was in the book's description. Seriously, I detest spoilers, but I'm sure I knew that going in & didn't expect much.
I read The Road & was highly disappointed. I'm a fan of post apocalyptic fiction & with all the raving about this, I thought I was in for a treat. I wasn't. I gave it a 1 star review here:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Jim, thank you for th review of The Road. I was thinking about reading it in the future, since I had heard so much about it, but now I think I'll pass on it. I am a reader who is really affected by the style of a book, and a consistent plot helps.
That is one book that is not going on my to-read list.
I enjoyed reading your review!
I am reading The Library at Mount Char by Scott Hawkins. It's nothing like what I expected, and certainly not like any library I've ever seen, but it's really entertaining. Also extremely violent. Sorry to hear you didn't like The Road Jim. It's one of my all-time favorites.
Jim wrote: "I read The Road & was highly disappointed. I'm a fan of post apocalyptic fiction & with all the raving about this, I thought I was in for a treat. I wasn't. I gave it a 1 star review he..."I didn't dislike The Road as Jim did. Obviously other readers think highly of it. It won the 2007 Pulitzer for fiction. I didn't think it was good enough for that.
Here's my brief review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I think what upset me the most about "The Road" was when I tried to find some good points for my review, I couldn't, just things I disliked about it. I was originally going to give it 2 stars because I listened to it all the way through, but the more I thought about it, the less I liked it. I'm picky at times & sometimes my mood influences how a book strikes me. That could be the case here, but if so it was unconscious. A couple of weeks ago there were 2 senseless deaths in the family that were unrelated & happened about a day apart. That could be nagging at me, so it probably wasn't the time to read this, but I'd been meaning to for a while & it showed up as available on my wish list at the library. Well, it's done & there's no way it gets a second chance any time soon.
Rosemarie wrote: "Sorry about your loss, Jim."Thanks. I'm not fishing for sympathy, just an explanation of possible influence.
I understand that, but it does affect moods to certain books, and or music. From other comments about the book The Road, you either love it or hate it. My husband read it and pointed out some major inconsistencies in the plot. He didn't seem too impressed. I like reading books with characters that I can relate or react to, and also writing with punctuation.
"The Road" is like reading prose poetry. It is also about loss of loved ones and can be read as a parable about the condition of marriage, children, and parents in our current society. This is highlighted in the flashback scene with the wife.A very fine work for our post-nuclear family times...
Gregg wrote: ""The Road" is like reading prose poetry. It is also about loss of loved ones and can be read as a parable about condition of marriage, children, and parents in our current society."That's exactly how I read it. I read the story as a metaphor for parents' journey through life raising their child/children. There was nothing special about the post-apocalyptic world created by McCarthy, but the relationship between the main character and his son really struck an emotional chord with me since I was a new parent at the time (as was McCarthy when he wrote the book, if I recall correctly).
Damned depressing metaphor then. Thankfully, I can find little to compare it to in raising 3 kids & 35 years of marriage. If it is a form of poetry, that could explain my dislike. I've never cared much for most poetry even though some of my favorite authors are known for writing it. Whatever it is, it completely failed as far as I'm concerned, but so it goes. Some of my favorite books don't ring a bell with others.
I read McCarthy's The Road a couple of years ago; whilst I can't remember all the finer details of the novel, I do remember the 'lack of punctuation' style made it feel quite literary which, once I'd got used to it, wasn't a problem for me - I enjoyed it. But the major thing I recall is the feeling of dread it evoked whenever I picked up the novel: I really wanted to read on and discover the next part of the father and son journey, but I was also dreading it all the way through in case the kid got killed! I'm a parent, too, so perhaps that's why it got me. However, I can honestly say I've never been as affected by a book, neither before nor since.
Why does a lack of punctuation seem 'literary'? I've never understood that, but many people seem to think it does. American English is weird enough without breaking the few customs that make it somewhat intelligible. There's a good reason for proper capitalization & punctuation or at least trying. The words "cant" & "can't" have completely different meanings & I see no reason why I should have to spend time figuring out which one the author meant due to context. English is already littered with homonyms. Adding more work to an already depressing novel is just sadistic. It's always seemed like a way to obscure deficiencies in a BS artistic manner to me.
I feel the same way about novels that are written entirely in stream-of-consciousness. A bit here & there can make a fine point such as making action scenes feel more urgent, but I prefer that it is used sparingly. When coupled with a lack of punctuation, the text just becomes a confusing mess & it's work to decipher rather than a pleasure to read.
Lord of Misrule is a lot like The Road in using both. I tried reading it in print, but could never tell when a character was thinking something or actually said it in conversation. It should have been a good read, but it was such a mess that I abandoned it. It's another I might try in audio if I come across it since the narrator often takes care of these deficiencies. Of course, it might wind up being like The Road for me. It's also supposed to be depressing, so I won't be looking for it soon.
Jim wrote: "Why does a lack of punctuation seem 'literary'? I've never understood that, but many people seem to think it does. American English is weird enough without breaking the few customs that make it som..."I take it you really didn't like it then, Jim? :-)
Perhaps my above statement was a bit misleading, though. It's not a complete 'lack of punctuation'; McCarthy uses a pared down syntax that rids itself of things like colons and quotation marks to present a language that has beauty in its simplicity. That's what gives it that 'literary feel' - the language is uncluttered by convention, but is also stark and allowed to breathe. True, it's not to everyone's taste (I don't know of any novel that appeals to everyone). But because The Road deals with the stark realities of life and death in a post-apocalyptic world where society and its conventions have broken down, the syntax used mirrors that. In other words, it's not 'literary' simply because some of the punctuation is missing, but rather because the pared-down syntax reflects the situation man and boy find themselves in.
I think that's why it got to me.
I just finished Parasite, the first of a trilogy. I gave it 3 stars, but am not sure when/if I'll read the other books. It was pretty slow going. Not a very good heroine.https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Well, Jim, I am glad for you.I lost my home and my three kids to a divorce - not to mention my cheating Swiss wife.
I don't wish divorce on anyone especially the kids.
Be glad you have missed the almost universal American experience....
Jim, you ain't never going to like C.J. Cherryh. Damn near stream of conscience from start to finish. Great stuff!
Donna Rae wrote: "...Perhaps my above statement was a bit misleading, though. It's not a complete 'lack of punctuation'; McCarthy uses a pared down syntax that rids itself of things like colons and quotation marks to present a language that has beauty in its simplicity. ..."Definitely different things appeal to different people & some things really tick us off. I just don't understand the appeal of pared down punctuation in this language, not that I know any others. I'm sure you know the old saw about Uncle Jack & the horse. I find the lack of logic making me pause fairly frequently at the best of times. The idea that failing to write clearly is somehow a good thing eludes me.
I guess one of the reasons I don't care much for poetry is that much is self punctuating through its meter which means it's best read aloud rather slowly. I tend to read fast without saying the words in my mind (save strange names) which my wife says she does. I have about enough patience for a couple of limericks.
;)
For me, leaving out quotes is a major offense when there are several speakers in one paragraph or the character thinks some things & speaks others. It's especially bad when the person is of dubious sanity. It makes a lot of difference in how the other characters act & the story progresses. That's what Gordon did in "The Lord of Misrule".
Since I listened to "The Road" I don't really know how he handled it, save for a quick look through a friend's book. That's where I noticed the "can't"/"cant" thing & why I knew I'd never read it in print. I was just plain disappointed in the story even though a good narrator removed the mechanical difficulties.
Jim wrote: "I have about enough patience for a couple of limericks."Limericks are the best, anyway :-)
Mod
Limericks are the best, anyway :-)"
There was a young man
From Cork, who got limericks
And Haikus confused.
There was an old man
From Peru whose lim'ricks all
looked like Haiku. He
said with a laugh "I
cut them in half. The pay is
much better for two!"
[Authors unknown.]
When I was a kid, about 6th grade, I read a kids fantasy book where in one part a kid had to make up limericks on the spot while riding a roller coaster in order to accomplish ... something? I loved the book but have never been able to figure out what it was again. So frustrating! It wasn't The Phantom Tollbooth, but was something along those lines.
Ed wrote: "Donna Rae wrote: "Jim wrote: "I have about enough patience for a couple of limericks."Limericks are the best, anyway :-)"
There was a young man
From Cork, who got limericks
And Haikus confused..."
LOL :-) Keep up the good work, Ed!
Mod
There is this:
The First Completely Electronic Robot and Science Fiction Limerick Book
Mod
That is one of the reasons I rate based on my enjoyment and don't try to determine whether it is really a "good" book or not.
Haven't read "The Road". Not sure I want to.
Donna Rae wrote: "Jim wrote: "I have about enough patience for a couple of limericks."Limericks are the best, anyway :-)"
I only know the one about the man from Nantucket. Not appropriate to share with the group, sorry.
Mod
That book of SF limericks? I don't think so. Cute idea, but I used the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon and saw that the poems weren't very interesting to me. To each their own!
I do have a book of limericks by Edward Gorey that I enjoy. He even wrote some in French, which is something I'd never seen before.
Asimov did quite a few books of them, too, including Lecherous Limericks
Thank God the Japanese don't see our haikus....
Mod
Oh, OK. Maybe someday....
I'm 100 pages in Leviathan Wakes. It isn't bad, but I'm not blown away. The prose is good and the setting is interesting, but there are lots of clichés there. Maybe if I read it faster it would capture my attention a bit more, but real life is rather busy these days.
Just started The Book of Strange New Things by Michel Faber. It's 500p, don't know exactly what to expect.
The Evolution of Science Fiction
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The title is from Shakespear. Romeo and Juliet.
http://nfs.sparknotes.com/romeojuliet...
Lightning is something that appears and then disappears quickly.