You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion
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Watcha Doin' - 2017.1 edition
Peggy wrote: "It feels so dependent, or like giving up part of your identity. I don't know. I like my own name and the family it belongs to much more than my bf's name, and I don't want to become known as someone else. ..."I struggled with taking my husband's last name because I don't like it very much! LOL. After 10 years it has grown on me though.
I never felt like I was giving up my identity though. Or that it would make me dependent on him in some way. For me it was a way of showing that we are united. I'm just a romantic at heart. LOL.
Hyphenated last names happens a lot here too by the way, but usually man's name first.
Sarah wrote: "Mariab wrote: "Are You feeling better, Sarah?"Much better thank you. I have a day or so left on the antibiotics but I'm certain the infection has gone now. I am left still with some pain in my ri..."
Great!, glad to hear that.
I like that too KimeyDiann, of being united :)I think it's just the general assumption that it *must* then be the man's name that makes me resist the whole idea and gets me a bit worked up ;-)
My wife and I discussed with keeping names. My argument was she had only been. A licensed pt for 2 months. So not long established. Plus I voted if we kept separate. Names then why get married at all. Mostly I just never wanted to get married
Peggy wrote: "On the other hand, I also understand that if you have a family you do want to have the same name as your husband and kids, and not be the odd one out. ..."Well, in many countries you can give your children your name, and the only left out will be your husband, that is, if he doesn't take your name as well.
Peggy wrote: "I like that in Spain children get both their parents' names. Although I wonder if in the end it's still always the paternal name that gets carried on.."As most children in LA.
And no, they use always both of them. Having (or using) only one has -in the past- the meaning of coming of the wrong side of the bed, that is, not having both parents recognizing you as their child.
And, also, families names can choose the order, putting the mother's name first and the father's second.
I wonder, how does that work through generations? If tradition is to give the child both the parent's names, when a new baby is born and the parents have 2 surnames each, which do they give the baby? So, if Smith and Jones have a baby and name it Smith-Jones and Green and Wilson have a baby and name it Green-Wilson. If Smith-Jones and Green-Wilson have a baby, what is the surname of the baby??
edit: I do know that some cultures have many surnames, but where does it cut off? I mean it wouldn't take many generations for that to get out of hand. Is it just the grandparents and parents names?? Just curious because I really don't know.
Lots of cultures deal just fine with different last names for parents and kids, read any Icelandic or Korean novels? Here in the US, more than 30% of married couples use different last names but it varies widely by region, education level and social group, not so much by age as you might think. I just came home from dinner with a friend who is a professor of sociology so my question about this really got him going!
I should find the meme where God says to swear using your own name. And it gets to the guy with like 10 hyphens in the name. It's hilarious.
And then there are the cultures that only use one name (Myanmar, Indonesia, Tibet, maybe parts of India). When you think about it our name changing tradition is the one that is unusual : )
That must have been a great conversation, Joan!
Well it was sort of a monologue as he got going, but that let me enjoy my dessert.
I took my ex-husband's name when we got married even though I never liked it. Over the years, I thought that if I could do it over again, I wouldn't have changed it. It was becoming more common for women to retain their maiden names after marriage.When we separated, I changed my name back to my maiden name before we were even divorced. I learned that your maiden name is always yours and that you can switch back at any time.
Mariab, I know you can do that, but my point was that only very few people do that (in NL it almost never happens) and the standard way is the man's name. Kristie, that is exactly what I meant. Mom and dad both have two last names, I think the child also gets two, but are parents free to chose and is it also like here that it is the standard to go with the names from the paternal side (so the name mom got from her dad and the name dad got from his dad).
In The Name of the Wind and many other fantasy names, they talk about your name having true power. It's who you are. I know they aren't reality but i really like what they say about names in them. My surname ends with me as I'm an only child, as is my father. If i were to get married, i always thought I'd keep my surname for that very reason. Plus i don't like the given that women change it to the man's. My partner and i have been together a long time and we're not likely to get married. I do like his surname though . Double barrel names are wuite common here and i know a few people who have both hyphenated their names so they've each taken each other's name effectively.
Kristie wrote: "I wonder, how does that work through generations? If tradition is to give the child both the parent's names, when a new baby is born and the parents have 2 surnames each, which do they give the bab..."Kristie, in Uruguay women do not take their husbands last names. It is not legally possible, and only a few do it "informally", that means they can be called by their husbands last names, but they don't have any document by this name. It is really only a few, and it is more common in upper classes.
Kids are given both parents last names, first the father's and second the mother's (unless they have only one parent). They are actually called "first last name" and "second last name", and are not hyphenated. When these kids have babies they give them their first last names, what it means both grandfathers names. That means the woman last lame is "lost" after two generations, and men are said the ones "continuing" the family names.
In your example:
father -> Paul Smith Jones
mother -> Mary Green Wilson
kids -> Thomas Smith Green and Clare Smith Green.
Thomas and Clare's kids will be Smith + their partners first last names, what means the Green will be lost in the next generation, at least in this branch. It will only go on if Mary had a brother.
Kristie wrote: "It is here too! And not widely available. My library doesn't have a copy and they are unlikely to get one. I did find this blog though... http://www.arthurstreetkitchen.com .."Oop. Sorry everyone, didn't realise it was an Aussie only release (although I am dancing around in my head yelling "WELCOME TO MY WORLD!!")
Go to the blog, and google books has a few of the salads too. I use the blog a fair bit too.
KimeyDiann wrote: "What is your favorite salad from the Community book? "My favourite is Barbecued corn and roasted butternut pumpkin with black beans and jalepeno sour cream https://thebackyardlemontree.com/2016...
We eat this all the time.
Followed closely by Balsamic Brussels sprouts and Puy lentils with Parmesan and mint https://www.eatyourbooks.com/library/...
This combines 3 things Lexx dislikes: brussels, lentils and mint. And he devours it. I made this down the coast and the kids ate all their sprouts! If that isn't a recommendation I don't know what is. I may upload this to photobucket/imgur for you all.
My MIL's is Za’atar Roasted Carrots with Kale, Freekeh and Blood Orange & Maple Dressing http://thedesignfiles.net/2013/12/tas...
If you don't have za'atar, I just google it and whack in what I have in my pantry. It's an approximation, but whatever. Tastes good. Same with blood oranges, I use oranges (maybe with grapefruit depending) as blood ones are expensive and rare.
Google books link: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=...
If you see something on the contents/index pages you NEED, let me know and I'll ummm... hook you up *wink wink*
I have a few friends who have taken their wife's name or invented a new one for them both (marriage here is a free name change for both of you, but usually only the woman takes this opp). In the 80s and 90s and early 00s it was really common for women not to take their husband's name, particularly in our city. This has shifted hugely in the last 15 years. I have one friend my age who hasn't taken her husband's name. One. For me this is a bit astounding.I work in academia which you know, but it's interesting, as soon as a woman publishes in her maiden name, that's her name forever more. Doesn't matter what a couple wants, you don't go switching you name for your publications, you work too hard for that to not get the cred.
Lol take that love, publishers are more important!
PS no judgement for anyone who has, people can do whatever they wish! It's just really interesting watching this social shift in my peer group.
KimeyDiann wrote: "Either that or they hyphenate it, Sarah Beth Smith-Jones." Hyphenations were a thing here too for a bit. But then I wanted to know what happened when Sarah Beth Smith-Jones married David Joshua Stuart-Weeks. Do they then end up as Smith-Jones-Stuart-Weeks?
Kristie wrote: "I think having the ground turkey in something like chili is probably a good way to try it if it's a texture thing."Here's another cultural difference. Turkey. We eat it at Christmas. The End. You guys seem to eat minced (ground) turkey all the time! Do you just have an obscene amount of turkeys in North America?
Peggy wrote: "she says she would like to sometime just so she'll have the same last name as her partner and children. "Kids could have her name. Why is it always the guys name? One of Lexx's sister's eldest kid has her last name, and I always thought that was cool. I mean, there is no reason why not.
School is closed today. The outside looks like a huge iceberg.
Sorry... Australian monologue as I caught up on the convos. Stop having such interesting conversations when I have to work!!
Peggy wrote: "Thanks for that explanation Sandra!"Agree, that makes a lot more sense for those people I have worked with from Latin and Central America. I could never quite work it out, and didn't know them well enough to ask.
Rusalka wrote: "Kids could have her name. Why is it always the guys name? One of Lexx's sister's eldest kid has her last name, and I always thought that was cool. I mean, there is no reason why not. "It is really cool. Our first daughter was born in Brazil, where you can choose and it is as common to use your mother's last name as your father's. We decide to give her my husband last name since we knew our next kids would be born in Uruguay, so she will end having a different last name than her siblings. What I said above about Uruguayan way of naming is law, not costume. If something of this changed by now, it was recently, and I am not aware of it.
Rusalka wrote: "Sorry... Australian monologue as I caught up on the convos. Stop having such interesting conversations when I have to work!!"Excuses... :)
Peggy wrote: "Thanks for that explanation Sandra!"You are welcome. I don't know how it is in other LA countries really. As I said you can choose in Brazil, and I know in Argentina you use only one last name, your father's. You don't change you name when you marry in neither of them.
My cousins in Chile use their father's name, but I don't know if it is like this for everyone.
We eat turkey for Thanksgiving and ham on Christmas and Easter. For a while we did lasagna on Christmas which I preferred. We do have a lot of turkeys but many people eat turkey throughout the year but I'm not a big fan I basically eat it on Thanksgiving. The end.
Definitely an interesting conversation.Thanks for the links Rusalka. Love the recipes on the blog. I will definitely be having a go with some of them. This is my go to for veggie recipes http://demuths.co.uk/rachels-blog i have done a few cooking courses with her.
Rusalka wrote: "Peggy wrote: "she says she would like to sometime just so she'll have the same last name as her partner and children. "Kids could have her name. Why is it always the guys name? One of Lexx's sist..."
Yes! But for some reason that almost never happens, it's just a given for most people that it will be the guys name. And I think a lot of men would prefer to have the kids and the wife have his name instead of he taking hers. Just because it's so ingrained and it's 'unmanly' (not my words, just what people may think) to do otherwise.
The Netherlands is not much of a turkey-eating country either.
@Peggy - Here you are free to choose your child's last name (surname) as well, but most often the father's name is chosen. In the case of parents that are not married, the mother may choose her own last name more often, but sometimes still the father's. I think people often consider whether they intend to marry when making that decision. @Sandra - Thank you for the explanation! That was exactly my question. I know some other cultures carry it on a bit longer and have several surnames before it stops. I'm curious how those cultures determine an endpoint and which names to choose too.
@ Rusalka - Thanks for the salad links!
Rusalka wrote: "Here's another cultural difference. Turkey. We eat it at Christmas. The End. You guys seem to eat minced (ground) turkey all the time! Do you just have an obscene amount of turkeys in North America?"Haha...I guess we do. They are farmed and we have turkey in the grocery store year round. I eat ground (minced) turkey all the time instead of beef. It was originally a change for health, but I like it better now. I only eat whole turkey on Thanksgiving and maybe one other time during the year. I eat a lot of chicken though.
I have seen wild turkeys several times in my yard and on the side of the road, so I know they're around in the wild too.
Rusalka wrote: "Sorry... Australian monologue as I caught up on the convos. Stop having such interesting conversations when I have to work!!"I feel the same way, except sleeping! lol
Rusalka wrote: "KimeyDiann wrote: "What is your favorite salad from the Community book? "My favourite is Barbecued corn and roasted butternut pumpkin with black beans and jalepeno sour cream https://thebackyardl..."
I was so sad the book wasn't released in US... Thanks for sharing your favorites, Rusalka : ) These sound so good!!
@ Rusalka/Balsamic Brussels sprouts and Puy lentils with Parmesan and mint... The link at Eat Your Books says you have to own the book to see the recipe. But I found this link that does allow me to see the recipe (click on page 81) and many others from the Community book. https://books.google.com/books?id=-Fk...
Sarah wrote: "Definitely an interesting conversation.Thanks for the links Rusalka. Love the recipes on the blog. I will definitely be having a go with some of them. This is my go to for veggie recipes http://d..."
I love all the soup and stew recipes. So good in winter months especially. And the savory vegetarian pies... yum!!
Sarah wrote: " i know a few people who have both hyphenated their names so they've each taken each other's name effectively..."I love this!!
Rusalka wrote: "KimeyDiann wrote: "What is your favorite salad from the Community book? "My favourite is Barbecued corn and roasted butternut pumpkin with black beans and jalepeno sour cream https://thebackyardl..."
Thanks for the links! The one with corn sounds divine! But is butternut pumpkin the same thing as butternut squash?
Rusalka wrote: " Do you just have an obscene amount of turkeys in North America? "Yes, I think we do. LOL. Most are from farms just like chicken and beef, but they are common in the wild where I live too. It is common, especially in the fall and spring, to see more than 20 wild turkeys on my commute to work. Turkey hunting season is very short though, and does not coincide with Thanksgiving, which has always seemed odd to me. Thanksgiving is about the only time I ever eat turkey and I really don't like it all that much. But I'm trying to branch out and find something different. I'm hoping to remember to get the slow-cooker out tonight so I can put the turkey breast I bought in to cook before I leave for work tomorrow.
This video sort of reminded me of our name changing conversation for some reason. An organization interviewed a group of people about their ancestry, then did DNA testing and shared the results with them. I found this fascinating.
https://www.facebook.com/yourmindacad...
That video is awesome. Thanks for sharing, Kimey.
@KimeyDiann yup. I think there is an old convo about this somewhere but we only call proper squash, squash. I can't remember what you guys call it. Button squash? Butternut squash is pumpkin to us. I've used Jap and Queensland Blue, so whatever pumpkin (squash) you have handy/is cheapest works. Just not what you guys call pumpkin, what you make jack O lanterns out of. You need flesh
KimeyDiann wrote: "re: Last Names. it is highly uncommon for women to not take their husband's name in the area I live in. Most women in my generation opt to drop their middle name and use their maiden name as a midd..."I did that, I moved my maiden name to my middle name (I didn't have a middle name to begin with) and I'm glad I did so that my kids and I have the same last name. To me, it's not a big deal. Honestly, I feel like it gets too confusing with all the different last names. I do totally understand wanting to keep your name though. I thought a lot about what I was going to do and it just felt ok to me to change my name. I've been this last name now for about as long as I was my maiden name and it just feels a part of me now like that one did. :)
The discussion on last names has been fascinating - I've learned a lot:-) Re: butternut squash and pumpkin, jack-o-lantern pumpkins are pretty fleshy - at least they are in the U.S. since, you know, everything in the U.S. has to be super sized - like drinks, meal portions, egos, etc. :-)
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We also have friends with two kids but not married. They don't necessarily want to get married for 'being married', but she says she would like to sometime just so she'll have the same last name as her partner and children.
I like that in Spain children get both their parents' names. Although I wonder if in the end it's still always the paternal name that gets carried on.