World, Writing, Wealth discussion
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An ebook priced within 1-5$ range sounds reasonable to me and I would expect some correlation between the price and the length.I'm not sure a dollar less or a dollar more influences a reader who wants to buy a book. If the price is too deviating then - yes, but unlikely within the expected range.
On the other hand you have an example of your niece, who claims to never pay more than 2 pounds, but then even with 2.31 you are above her exepctations and if you go lower - your royalties drop sharply.
The ease with which you can change price makes it really worthwhile to try a few different prices, to see whether it has any impact on sales and remain with the price that sells the best...
There was actually a really good, lengthy thread on this topic on one of the dozens of Facebook groups I'm in. I'll see if I can find and link to it here.
I had someone email me: "I'm so excited for your next book. I hope you don't make it too expensive because I'm a little broke."My answer: "Aww, thanks! It'll be $2.99, which IS kinda expensive for a novella. Totally worth it, though ^_~"
The problem with cheap people is they'll always be cheap. And they're demanding as shizz. God forbid you should decide to raise the price of a subsequent book *GASP* as you have every right to do as the person who wrote the darn thing. I'm too stubborn to compete for their business.
You wrote a book. Is it a Porsche or a Pinto? Whatever the answer, treat it as such.
With that being said, I write free fiction for my readers all the time. So the cheap buggers get some love too haha!
Hugs,
Ann
P.S. - Ain't nothing wrong with Pintos. We totally had one when I was a kid *smirks*
EDIT: I should say that this is obviously my personal opinion. Some authors just wanna gain exposure or get their books read. I respect that too. Do what you want. As long as you wanna do it.
I remember seeing/hearing somewhere that $2.99 is the sweet spot for pricing on fiction e-books. More and it hurts sales and less it hurts sales because its perceived to be of inferior writing. Non-fiction can be priced higher though.
I priced my fiction novel (77K words) at $3.99 with no issues whatsoever. I've actually considered changing it to $4.99 but it's working fine sooo...*shrugs*
I'll price novellas $2.99, which many authors have told me is too high for 30K words. But honestly, I don't care what authors think. I care what readers think. Minus the really cheap ones ROFLMAO!!
Group hugs,
Ann
You have to take multiple factors into consideration:1. Overall market
2. Genre market
3. Format/length
4. Stand-alone or series?
5. First book or twelfth book?
6. Sales history
Notice I didn't mention:
1. How much it cost to publish it
2. How brilliant everyone says it is
3. Personal book buying habits
Did I forget anything?
Tara wrote: "Did I forget anything?"Nope. You never do ^_~
EDIT: Oh, I totes forgot to share!! I was talking to my buddy last night (the one I never see eye-to-eye with haha!) and he was trying to convince me to lower my price again *eye roll*
Anyhoo, he said, "I'd never pay that much for a book" to which I replied, "Then you're never gonna buy my book."
Ahhh. Don't you just love different personalities? *smirks*
Annie, if you don't object I will use your book as an example to illustrate my points.
I don't object, your honor!*hands over Exhibit A*
Should I be worried? Hahahahaha!!
Yeah I agonized over this one for months, since my books are considered too long to be novellas but too short for novels (they average about 45K words, 170 pages in print). The ebooks have been selling well at the 2.99 price point. For lots of reasons I have decided to keep them there. If I publish a longer novel, I will likely have it priced at 2.99 just to participate with more ebook marketing sites.
I would probably pay any price for a book if I wanted it bad enough. For ebooks that I am not sure I will like, I pretty much pass them by unless they are on Kindle Unlimited. Sorry, I can be a cheapo too. :)
(i should be getting into the commute rt now, but this is a stimulating topic.)Tara wrote: "You have to take multiple factors into consideration:
1. Overall market
2. Genre market
3. Format/length
4. Stand-alone or series?
5. First book or twelfth book?
6. Sales history
Notice I didn't mention:
1. How much it cost to publish it
2. How brilliant everyone says it is
3. Personal book buying habits"
out of all of these, "2.Genre market" and "2.How briliant everyone says it is" are the most important considerations.
on a pragmatic note, i'd look at the top 100 bestsellers in your genre/sub-genre as well as some books that are your closest competitors in terms of subject and style and try to match them. they're the best gauge to the perceived value (aka "price") of your ebook. if you want to get really detailed pricing info, you should download the raw data from the May 2016 authorearnings.com "6-million amazon titles" report, import it into your spreadsheet app, and number crunch your genre/sub-genre.
a corollary to the aforementioned procedure is: "do not consider anecdotal statements" because the dataset is too small.
this procedure takes care of "genre market".
to answer "how brilliant your book is" question, we have to abstract price into "perceived value". perceived value is how valuable the people--who are going to want to read your book and buy it--think it is. in the open marketplace, that perceived value is the price that the most number of those people are going to buy it at.
perceived value is different from the value that is derived from production. for an ebook, the value that is derived from production is basically your labor (plus depreciation of equipment costs, editing, cover and so forth), but the major value is your labor--your blood, sweat and tears.
we should not confuse perceived value with production value. that is, we should not get emotionally attached to perceived value b/c of the amount of work we put into that ebook.
now, how brilliant your book actually is in a feedback loop w/the perceived value of your ebook (see Cialdini on the principles of "social proof" and "commitment and consistency"). that is to say, when readers pay about the same amount for your ebook as they would have for a book in the top 100 bestseller list, then they feel more satisfied with your ebook than they would if they had paid less. an extension is that they might feel more satisfied if they paid more for your ebook than the mean of the top 100 bestsellers!
in summary, you should price your ebook around the same as the genre/sub-genre top 100 bestsellers' mean price.
DISCLAIMER: in no way am i telling you what you should price your ebook at. my advice might be completely inaccurate. please do your due diligence and price your ebook at what you think is the best for you.
The price is a message of a sort. Price your book at 1 $ and some would think, hey I'm not sure the book is worth much but I like the blurb and if it's s..t, I don't lose much either. The higher your price the bigger is your statement and readers' expectations. The more hesitant they may be about unknown authors. When brands like Grisham or King sell, they don't have a quality and enjoyment issue hovering in the air, while indies have to dispel many suspicions -:)
You could run a sale of sales are lagging.
Tim wrote: "Annie wrote: but then even with 2.31 you are above her exepctations and if you go lower - your royalties drop sharply."Umm. I didn't write that. I'd NEVER suggest anything below $2.99 (with the exception of 99c promos). Don't you know me at all, Mr Tim?
*evil grin*
Haha, no worries! Just didn't want people to think I'd suddenly lost my stubborn edge cuz *evil grin widens* I haven't. At all. Not even a tiny bit. Nope.@Mr Nik: I'd recommend starting off with a chunkier heel. You're gonna break an ankle in my stilettos ^_~
#SpikedHeelsFTW
Tim wrote: "I can't understand the reasoning that paper books are VAT free but ebooks aren't? .."Alex brought a link where exactly this issue is mentioned to be discussed by European Commission, so if and b4 UK leaves, there is a chance the situ may change
Annie wrote: "@Mr Nik: I'd recommend starting off with a chunkier heel. You're gonna break an ankle in my stilettos ^_~..."It's probably apocalypse, the end of the world?! , if we became indistinguishable -:)
According to Smashwords, the "sweet spot" is $2.99 - $3.99, and while the higher price leads to slightly fewer sales, you make up with more return. I price my shorter ones (~100k words) at $2.99 and the longer fictional ones at $3.99, and actually I don't see much difference in sales between the prices. I priced "Miranda's Demons" at $4.99 because it is even longer (about 300 k words) and it is not selling at all well, despite (in my opinion) it is one of my best. I get annoyed when I see very short ones selling for $2.99, but, well, I guess I have to live with it.
Why don't you break Miranda's Demon into a duology?
Alex G wrote: "Why don't you break Miranda's Demon into a duology?"Because there is no natural break in the middle. There is a break about 2/3 the way through, but the second part would make no sense without the first, and I am not sure that a 200 k book would make any more sense. Basically it is my scifi attempt at a "War and Peace", but it is also the end of a political and economic system, and the first part would also not make a sane ending. Added to which, when I have decided that this was as good as I could make it, I am reluctant to change it. If nobody reads it, that is unfortunate, but if I messed it up and still did not get many readers I would hardly be happy.
Ian wrote: "Because there is no natural break in the middle. There is a break about 2/3 the way through, but the second part would make no s..."i wonder if you wouldn't mind allowing me to use Miranda's Demons as a case study on perceived value in this thread.
science fiction is one of my interests and i looked at your book on amazon in comparison to others in the "first contact" subgenre and thought that it might be instructive to explore and discuss perceived value in that context.
if not, then i won't.
Annie wrote: "You wrote a book. Is it a Porsche or a Pinto? Whatever the answer, treat it as such. "Neither. Mine's more of a Bell Huey Cobra with speakers hanging off the side belting out "The Ride of the Valkyries" as it storms into battle :)
I've also heard that 2.99 to 3.99 is the "sweet spot" for e-books. I've tried varies prices but the numbers aren't statistically significant. I need to work on visibility before I have the luxury of worrying about price :)
Alex G wrote: "Ian wrote: "Because there is no natural break in the middle. There is a break about 2/3 the way through, but the second part would make no s..."i wonder if you wouldn't mind allowing me to use Mi..."
Feel free to.
Tim wrote: "Hahaha... And thanks, for the VAT info, Nik. Take care of those shapely ankles now... ;) I know how I mistook you for Annie, now. I saw breast when I should have seen beast!! :D"-:)
Ian wrote: "Basically it is my scifi attempt at a "War and Peace"..."Sounds very ambitious
Ian wrote: "Bell Huey Cobra with speakers hanging off the side..."Nice metaphor for a book -:)
Nik wrote: "Ian wrote: "Basically it is my scifi attempt at a "War and Peace"..."Sounds very ambitious"
Every now and again you have to try something ambitious. One may not succeed, but it is 100% fail if you do not even try :-)
Nik wrote: "Ian wrote: "Bell Huey Cobra with speakers hanging off the side..."Nice metaphor for a book -:)"
With due credit to Apocalypse Now :)
Ian wrote: "I am not sure that a 200 k book would make any more sense"I dunno though. I worked hard to trim my first novel down to 100k, because at that time I was querying for a trad deal and the received wisdom was that 100k was the limit any agent would touch. Now I can see my paperback on the library shelf alongside others, it looks positively lightweight compared to many.
Also I know I read at various times (unable to cite sources, so this is anecdotal and to be treated with a grain of salt) that e-book readers in some markets are looking for longer works as they represent a better deal. I guess that's as long as you don't price a 200k novel at twice a 100k work :)
That probably depends on genre. Fantasy definitely lends itself to doorstop-sized tomes with all the worldbuilding, but I think epic sci-fi would work too. You just have to reach the right audience.
I tip my hat to all those who write more than 50k words . . . you all are legendary
Denise wrote: "The lowest I can go is $10.63. GRRRRRR!!!! I didn't know Createspace doesn't allow you to put any price for your books."Unlike e-books, there are tangible production costs with paperbacks. Createspace will work out the print cost of a book plus their margin, and you won't be allowed to go lower than that otherwise they'd start losing money on sales. That is to be expected.
If you opt for expanded distribution the minimum price will be higher yet because the distributors also have their cut.
Denise wrote: "My eBooks are priced at $2.99. The first book was originally priced at $6.50, but I lowered it. The price change didn't change sales for that one.I'm trying to decide my paperback price. [book:Ne..."
Hi Denise, I wonder if the production cost for your paperback might be reduced if you uncheck "expanded distribution". If you choose expanded distribution, Createspace requires more royalties than just Amazon sales. A friend of mine recently found that unchecking the expanded distribution option enabled him to list his paperback for a lower price.
Segilola wrote: "I tip my hat to all those who write more than 50k words . . . you all are legendary"Yes! I am in awe :).
Ian wrote: "Alex G wrote: "Ian wrote: "Because there is no natural break in the middle. There is a break about 2/3 the way through, but the second part would make no s..."i wonder if you wouldn't mind allowi..."
spent a couple of hours last night compiling stats on the top 20, but then realized that quite a few of them are very recent and are probably still affected by new release boosters. so i'm culling from the to 21-40 now.
(thanks, Ian, for indulging me.)my position is more tentative than absolute and as such i hope to spur on discussion.
first of all, we are only discussing perceived value--not production value-- that is, not the value produced from, in the case of ebooks, mainly from the writer's labor. therefore, this discussion is not an examination of the value of the story itself. instead, it is an examination of the packaging of that story--and other external factors--and how that packaging influences the perceived value in the marketplace. instead of using the term, price, i prefer to use "perceived value" because that immediately brings to mind that the price is set by people's perceptions and not necessarily the labor of the writer.
simply put, the ebook's packaging (mainly the cover and blurb/sales description) and the prices within close proximity of the ebook are the major influencers on what customers are willing to pay--the perceived value or price--for the ebook. (we are not here concerned so much with the area of marketing that drives customers to discover an ebook (aka "discoverability") as that does not influence perceived value that much. nor will we be discussing the sample pages because i'd argue that the sample pages influence the customer into a buy/not buy binary decision more than a price determination. similarly for customer reviews.)
The spreadsheet that enumerates the attributes of the top 40 bestsellers in the Kindle Space Opera sub-genre is located here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Note: I normalized the top 40 to exclude those ebooks that were in their "alleged" 1-month initial boost phase. 28 is the normalized number.
Miranda's Demons vs. Earth Alone
Cover
The cover of Earth Alone is slicker than Miranda's Demons. 86% of the normalized top 40 have "slick" covers.
However, the cover of Miranda's Demons is very much in line w/the design and graphic elements of the other covers: a spaceship and a planet behind it.
Blurb
The Earth Alone blurb manipulates the tropes well: evil aliens attack earth; a heroic character with a personal beef.
At the end, we have a comparison to other well-known books in the same genre--which adds social proof that this is a good book and increases perceived value--however, upon analysis, this might not be a significant factor in perceived value.
The Miranda's Demons blurb tells a complex story with multiple MCs. There is no comparison to well-known books in the same genre.
This disparity in blurbs could mean that I put Miranda's Demons into the wrong sub-genre; however, the "Look for similar items by category" displayed these categories:
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Alien Invasion
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > First Contact
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Military > Space Fleet
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > First Contact
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Military > Space Fleet
Perhaps adjustments in metadata would help get Miranda's Demons into a more appropriate category?
In bought after viewing
Constitution: 362pp; $3.99/kindle; $16.99/paperback
Sleeping Duty**; 208pp; $2.99/kindle; ??/paperback
The Accidental Explorer**; 504pp; $4.99/kindle; ??/paperback
The Last Marine in the Galaxy**; 302pp; $1.99; $11.99/paperback
** does not have a slick cover
Summary
Cover
* This survey reinforces the common belief that a good cover is important for sales and I would additionally conclude that it is also important in contributing to perceived value.
Median Price
$3.99 is the median as well as the mode (the highest frequency) and therefore customers are more used to a $3.99 price than any other one. Therefore, anything lower or higher than this price would make the customer think--which gives them more time to click on something other than "Buy now with one click."
Having said that, 29% of these ebooks at the $4.53+.
Print Price
* 82% have a print price, which might indicate that a print price increases the validity of the ebook price.
Social Proof
* Only 32% of the ebooks have social proof on the cover or blurb stating that the ebook fits in with other well-known books in the genre or has awards (like USA Today). Therefore, this tactic might not have a significant effect.
Reviews
* Median = 177
* # of reviews doesn't appear to correlate with kindle paid rankings; there is a rough correlation w/the length of time having been published.
* Therefore, # of reviews is not a significant factor in perceived value (nor in the bestsellers list and, by extension, sales). This points to the fact that reviews might not be a significant factor in sales.
Ratings
* Ratings are all 4.5 - 5.
* Ratings seem to be very significant in making it into the top 40 bestseller category, although because of the narrow ranges, it's effect on perceived value is impossible to calculate.
Page Count
* Median page count = 344
* There did not appear to be any correlation between higher page counts and lower kindle paid rankings, although from a cursory analysis, the middle 25%-75% seemed to account for more rankings in the hundreds than the lower and upper quartiles, the sample dataset is too small to reach definitive conclusions. Therefore, I conclude that page count is not a significant factor in perceived value.
Further Research
* Not too sure what to think about in bought after viewing list.
Alex G wrote: "(thanks, Ian, for indulging me.)my position is more tentative than absolute and as such i hope to spur on discussion.
first of all, we are only discussing perceived value--not production value--..."
Thanks for the effort, Alex. Yes, the price should reflect value to the reader and has nothing to do with the cost of producing it - that is sunk cost, although if you are in hard copy, and you don't recover production costs at some point, you don't stay in business very long.
Covers - that is not a planet behind it - that is Miranda - one of the only two images of it from Voyager. I was hoping someone might recognise it and conclude that there was some substance behind the book, but it probably missed the mark there.
Metadata and blurb. Agreed that metadata might be adjusted. The problem is, as you say, this is a very complex story, and this made the blurb more difficult. If I oversimplify the blurb, I might also get dissatisfied customers, who buy it thinking it is something else. Not easy to get around that one. I would rather have few sales than have people think they wasted their money.
To summarise, I am thinking of revisiting most of my books in terms of metadata and blurbs. In my book "Red Gold" the main protagonist starts off by saying that he feels he is the world's worst salesman, a man who could not sell residue-free food to the hungry rich. To some extent, there was a little of me in that thought!
Ian wrote: "Covers - that is not a planet behind it - that is Miranda - one of the two only images of it from Voyager. I was hoping someone might recognise it and pick that there was some substance behind the book, but of course it probably missed the mark there."ah. yes, the significance of the image of Miranda is most likely missed by 99% of the readers; however, in general, the cover fits into the sub-genre.
Ian wrote: "I am thinking of revisiting most of my books in terms of metadata and blurbs. In my book "Red Gold" the main protagonist starts off by saying that he feels he is the world's worst salesman, a man who could not sell residue-free food to the hungry rich. To some extent, there was a little of me in that thought! "
ha!
i'd agree that it would be worthwhile to revisit.
it was a productive exercise for me. i'll reuse my spreadsheet for an analysis of the sub-genres that i intend to publish in.
The discussion on covers tends to focus on images, yet it seems the fonts for titles and author's name gets ignored. I'm trying to brainstorm the title for my next book, but I find myself focusing on finding an appropriate font more. I went through my library for ideas and find so many wonderful fonts, then go through my fonts and can't find anything I'm happy with for the project. With SciFi fonts themselves tend to be as simple as you can find, but they're dressed up.Take another look at Miranda's Demons and Earth Alone and you might see what I'm saying. Ian uses what looks like an ordinary font, but he jazzes it up with a gradient. Earth Alone also looks like a plain font, but along with the gradient, there is a bit of an overlay so the colors aren't solid.
Another thing I've noticed going through my library is that indies tend to use all caps on their covers (I too do this), but the "classics" do not use all caps. I also tend to notice some of the traditionally published books opt for no image, instead plastering the cover with text. I know it's something that works better in some genres more than others, but I'm left wondering if we as indies are overly complicating our covers. For some like me who play it cheap and produce our own, I wonder if instead of doing something flashy, we should stick to the principal Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS).
J.J. has a point. As Alex noted, my use of the image of Miranda probably was missed by most readers (although if you recall the cover while reading the crossing of parts of the Chevron and think about the size of the canyons, then you would get a much better appreciation of how difficult that was). Similarly, on my cover of "Red Gold" I used an image of Hellas Planitia, and if you expanded the image up to its full size, it effectively became a map (without names) of where everything happened. At the time, I thought that a great idea, but, well, I doubt anyone even thought about doing that, so it was,more or less a waste of effort. Probably something slick would have done a lot better.
J.J. wrote: "For some like me who play it cheap and produce our own, I wonder if instead of doing something flashy, we should stick to the principal Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS). ..."I wish anyone could know what would work .... But if you produce your own covers, you can probably experiment with a couple of different ones to see which ones brings better results?
Nik wrote:"I wish anyone could know what would work .... But if you produce your own covers, you can probably experiment with a couple of different ones to see which ones brings better results? "I think this is solid advice even if you are working with a design artist. Im going to have 3 different covers made and rotate them. I have about 50 members on a private FB readers group that will choose the first cover but after that I will rotate all 3 covers on Amazon a weekly basis just to confirm their choice or see if the other cover sells better. Raw data is priceless.
World, Writing, Wealth
Books mentioned in this topic
Miranda's Demons (other topics)Earth Alone (other topics)
a few years ago, there was a first book in a series that I read that completely hooked me. I was annoyed that it was a series but it was so good that I HAD to get the others. The price of each subsequent title increased and one was around the £3 mark if I am not mistaken and I grudgingly paid it. The last book I read in the series was rubbish, so I didn't bother buying the next book.
pricing is a very subjective thing. for fiction, it depends on how much pleasure/value a reader gets from/puts to the book.
if you treat this as a business, who is your ideal buyer? someone might want a car and is happy to get any car that would take him/her from point A to B. Someone else might want a car that would take him/her from point A to B in complete luxury.
if teenagers are your ideal buyers, then you know that a lot of them might not necessarily be able to afford pricey books. saying that, I see a lot of them around the chicken and chip shops everyday after school. so maybe they value their tummy more? one piece of chicken and chips with a drink is at least £2.50 from the non-kfc shops
I think we as authors are undermining the skill/time it takes to create a book by making a lot of them free for consumption or dead cheap.
no one goes to the shop to buy alcohol/cigarettes etc free. once you use it, it's gone. a (well written) book gives you more pleasure in my opinion and can be read over and over again.
I don't think £3.19 is too pricey for a 3rd or later book in an adult fiction series. I would pay it if I absolutely love the prior two books.
For non-fiction you can pretty much set whatever price you want, so long as the value the reader is getting out of it is significant and not readily available anywhere else. For such books, I would rather get it as a paperback than an ebook.
Hope this helps