Book Nook Cafe discussion
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The Wright Brothers - August 2016
Alias Reader wrote: "Though the Wrights have to run a business and use their own money unlike some of the others they are competing against ..."I think McCullough mentions this much better later, when Wilbur is in France. In the US it seems to be that large money institutions, such as the Smithsonian and Bell were the ones attempting to try to be the first. However, overseas many of the aviator attempts were by the very rich. I can't call it a hobby but it seemed to be more about the thrill than possible riches.
And i think the same could be said about the Wrights. If they were thinking about the business angle primarily, i think McCullough would have mentioned that more often. They just seemed to want to see if they could create such a feat. I'm probably looking at it wrong, though.
The seeming indifference by the press and others to what the brothers were doing has me wondering if they were only two of hundreds making such announcements. If someone today says they can move a butterfly from one room to another using scientific apparatus, we are all over that. (Ok, i don't think anyone has claimed this but there was something about transporting a few years ago.) Flying? Apparently it was not a sure road to fame or success. Who knew?
Petra, i'm with you in wondering how many better, curious and able young people we would have if they were allowed to follow their interests rather than a prescribed course. I've seen home schooling parents allow this with some success. You can teach all the requirements (Reading, Writing, Math, Science) while allowing a student that freedom. It's just no longer rote teaching but rather catered. I suppose that is one of the problems. And many parents just don't have the time to be that specific with their children's curiosity. I've seen it work, though.
madrano wrote: "I've seen home schooling parents allow this with some success. You can teach all the requirements (Reading, Writing, Math, Science) while allowing a student that freedom. ,..."I've thought about home schooling (as a method of teaching; not doing it). It has a lot of broadening options but I can see it going the other way, too, with students not learning the basics.
If I had kids I would be torn. I don't entirely buy into the school system (too much learning by rote) but don't have the confidence to ensure that I'd cover the basics solidly enough (especially in topics I'm unsure of) but fairly sure that I'd be able to pick up on individual interests and allow that freedom.
It's tricky.
madrano wrote: " ......I can't call it a hobby but it seemed to be more about the thrill than possible riches.
And i think the same could be said about the Wrights. ..."
So far, the impression I'm getting of the Wrights' interest in flying is just an interest in flying.
They seem so down to earth, with no business & riches aspirations or a desire for fame. They seemed truly curious about transforming a bird's flight ability to a machine. I really like that about them and it's this true interest and lack of personal gain that makes me glad that they cracked this problem in the end.
This morning I listened to the episode with the mosquitoes. What a nightmare! I can only imagine the itching & scratching that they went through afterwards.
That fellow (can't remember his name....a problem when listening to audios) who kept borrowing everyone's items and was basically a lazy pest in the camp was irritating.
Re. homeschooling. I've seen it go mostly poorly but the potential is there. We opted for public schools but it was important to me to also offer ideas and opportunities for activities i would do had i homeschooled. And i think this is where the tricky part is. We could afford for me to stay home with our children, so i could practice this idea. When a family is limited to evenings and weekends, it's more challenging. Many families manage to do so, i hasten to add. I agree with your impressions of the Wright brothers and their interest in flying. It was more about curiosity than visions of dollars. Or at least from what was shared by McCullough. This fall we intend to be in Dayton, so wonder if we can find out more about that.
I can't recall his name & i had to send back the book. However, i remember my disdain of that man who felt so entitled, even though he was just a visitor. Can you imagine. Clearly, even back then there were folks who felt that way. :-) Nothing new under the sun, eh?
I think, had I had kids, I would have tried the same as yourself, Madrano. I wouldn't want to be the roadblock to my kids' education (by missing the basics and not teaching something important) but would have liked to follow their studies and introduce projects to their interests. Not sure how I would have done that or if they would have been interested but I would have tried to get them to think beyond the boundaries of schoolwork. It is a tricky balance with everyone's busy schedules just to make ends meet. Raising kids is fun and hard.
The Bishop made it seem natural and easy-going, at least in McCullough's version of things. He was also rather removed from his kids upbringing. He travelled a lot and they were left at home with their mom for long periods of time. Perhaps she hasn't been given the credit she deserves. Maybe she inspired the curiosity in her kids?
Alias Reader wrote: "Talk about the Wright family circle—especially Sister Katharine and Bishop Milton Wright—and the influence its members had on Orville and Wilbur and their achievement. This leads, inevitably, to the roles that upbringing and genetics play in individual accomplishment. To what extent are all of us shaped by our family environment? How much of our accomplishments are fully our own? ..."The family was a loving, warm and close one. Not often found. The Wright siblings were lucky.
This closeness and acceptance in who and what they were, allowed the brothers to be themselves and follow their interests without rebuke from those closest around them. That would lead to confidence, security and the knowledge that the pursuit of a goal, regardless of possible failure, was possible without ridicule or shaming. I think the possibilities of failure followed by ridicule stops many people from following an idea. Our families are important in this shaping because they are the refuge we all live amongst. So it all starts at home, in a way.
The brothers were strong in the knowledge that their interests could be pursued and no end goal of success was expected or required. That might have taken a load of stress off, leaving their minds free to observe and learn.
Katharinen is a good example of this. We don't know much about her. Yet in McCullough's book she's always there for the brothers, loves hearing their adventures with their flying experiments. The brothers were intense and seem to have talked & written about their work constantly. How interested was she really in all that flying talk? She may have been, we don't know. Either way, she was enthusiastic at their successes and always showed interest in what they were doing. Total acceptance of the brothers and their interests and daily lives. They, of course, showed the same towards Katharine; that's the family they were. It's lovely.
So, family environment is important to allow the freedom to grow into who and what you are.
Petra wrote: This struck me, too. I would have loved to grow up in such a free and open family that allowed for self-awareness and learning. Just the thought of being able to stay away from a structured school setting to study a topic of interest in your own fashion is dizzying. The Wright brothers and their siblings had a wonderful opportunity with this...."I thought it interesting that even though their father was a pastor when O&W read that book it said they never went back to church. And it seemed as if their father was fine with that.
I thought that showed a lot. Even if he may not have agreed with them he allowed them to think for themselves and make their own decisions.
I've started Part III and I am up to chapter 10.Chapter 9 The Crash
*****Spoiler for this chapter.
Can you imagine if TR was in that crash ? And if the things I've read about TR are even a fraction true, you know he would have done anything to get up in that plane. Scary how history can change with what at the time may seem inconsequential or sudden changes of mind.
Poor Orville ! Yikes! I can't imagine his pain. And his leg wasn't even in a cast but hanging from some contraption from the ceiling!
Chapter 8I found it very endearing that Wilbur was so taken with alphabet soup. Simple pleasures of an earlier time.
Chapter 9"The Bishop liked to preach the futility of craving fame. "Enjoy fame ere its decadence, for I have realized the emptiness of its trumpet blasts," he had written to Wilbur, and quoted favorite lines form the Irish poet Thomas Moore:
And false the light on glory's plume
As fading lines of even.
Here is the poem.
XXXV. Consolation
‘This World is all a fleeting Show’
By Thomas Moore (1779–1852)
THIS world is all a fleeting show,
For man’s illusion given;
The smiles of Joy, the tears of Woe,
Deceitful shine, deceitful flow—
There ’s nothing true, but Heaven!
And false the light on Glory’s plume,
As fading hues of Even;
And Love and Hope, and Beauty’s bloom,
Are blossoms gather’d for the tomb—
There ’s nothing bright, but Heaven!
Poor wand’rers of a stormy day!
From wave to wave we’re driven,
And Fancy’s flash, and Reason’s ray,
Serve but to light the troubled way—
There ’s nothing calm, but Heaven!
http://www.bartleby.com/361/524.html
Petra wrote: "This closeness and acceptance in who and what they were, allowed the brothers to be themselves and follow their interests without rebuke from those closest around them. That would lead to confidence, security and the knowledge that the pursuit of a goal, regardless of possible failure, was possible without ridicule or shaming. ..."This is a very good point, Petra. Ridicule and poor support probably killed more dreams than we'll ever realize. The support the brothers received from family is tremendous. Even the letters, as you note, home indicate they felt their sister and father were as interested in the way the events unfolded, too.
And your comment about the mother is true. We really have little info about her. And i really, really must add that having a housekeeper frees everyone up to do more and inspire work. :-)
Alias, thanks for that poem. The first two lines draw one in, don't they? That it ends with "Heaven" is neat, in that they were reaching upwards.
********************CHAPTER NINE SPOILER*********************
I agree, Alias. I wondered if TR flew with them, as it seemed like something that would spark his interest.
The crash was awful and the very slow recovery of Orville is amazing. It clearly didn't diminish his interest one iota.
I felt Alexander G. Bell's actions with the plane was curious. I've finished the book and it isn't specifically mentioned again by name. What was he thinking? I think by that point he was embroiled in patent lawsuits himself.
madrano wrote: "I felt Alexander G. Bell's actions with the plane was curious. I've finished the book and it isn't specifically mentioned again by name. What was he thinking? I think by that point he was embroiled in patent lawsuits himself."
I'm almost done. I think I have around 30 pages left.
It seems whatever hard feelings there may have been were temporary. When she was in Paris, Bell took her out for a drive. Forgot what chapter that was.
Re: TR almost going up in the Wright plane. I'm happy they decided against it, considering the outcome of that test flight. However, I can't believe they were able to talk him out if it. It would seem like something TR would have loved. I saw this on my FB feed today.
On August 22, 1902 President Theodore Roosevelt was the first U.S. President to make a public appearance in an automobile while in office. President Roosevelt was on a tour of New England and, according to the New York Times, "cheering supporters greeted Mr. Roosevelt at all points along his parade route, which he traversed in a handsome victoria automobile, in charge of two expert New York chauffeurs.”
madrano wrote: "This fall we intend to be in Dayton, so wonder if we can find out more about that...."I just heard the other day that the Air Force museum in Dayton is free, if you are interested in seeing war planes.
Julie, i'm not but i'm sure my husband will be. I tend to avoid those...what they offered at the Air & Space Museum in DC was enough for me. I wonder if the Wright's Flyer is still there or if it's moved to their hangar museum...hold on while i check...Yes! it's still there, as is The Spirit of St. Louis. The other museum, Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, VA, holds larger aircraft. It's free but the parking is $15!!!!ANYway, thank you, Julie. I know we'll be going there.
****KINDA SPOILER BELOW, BUT NOT MUCH****
Alias, i was surprised that Bell took Katharine for a drive. I guess not much was made of the hangar visit at the time. Not that much was mentioned in the book, either.
I had no idea TR was the first to appear in a car while in office. Funny the things historians note.
Petra wrote: "I am interested in the episode of "the bat". There does seem to be a backstory there. Wilbur gets hit with a bat and loses his teeth but the family want to sweep the event under the rug? That's eno..."That was a bit odd. It doesn't appear we have the whole story here.
chapter 9Page 182 Hardcover edition
Interesting that the first full scale public performance was in France not the United States. I don't think I knew this before reading the book.
Chapter 10Page 203 hardcover edition
Democracy in America --Alexis de TocquevilleThis book is mentioned when discussing the "grit & individuality" of Americans.
I've owned this book for decades. It's been on my TBR list forever. I really need to read it. Anyone here read it?
Chapter 10Page 204
Mentions the "Hobble Skirt" and how it became a fashion sensation.
Wiki-
A postcard (circa 1911) depicting a man pointing at a woman wearing a hobble skirt. The caption says, "The Hobble Skirt: What's that? It's the speed-limit skirt!" as hobble skirts limit the wearer's stride.
A hobble skirt was a skirt with a narrow enough hem to significantly impede the wearer's stride, and was a short-lived fashion trend around the turn of the 19th to the 20th century and the early 1910s. The name was given in reference to the device used to restrain, or hobble, horses. A knee-long corset was also used to achieve this effect. A dress consisting of such skirt was called a hobble dress.
Although restrictive skirts first appeared in Western fashion in 1880s, the term was first used in reference to a short-lived trend of narrow skirts in around 1910–1913. The Parisian fashion designer Paul Poiret is sometimes credited with the design, and hobble skirt is an evolution of the narrowing skirt seen in fashion since the turn of the century. Poiret may also have been influenced by observing the behavior of Mrs. Hart O. Berg[1] upon the first aeroplane flight she took in October 1908 with Wilbur Wright, whereon she tied a rope around the bottom of her skirt to keep it from blowing up during the flight. After Wilbur and Mrs. Berg landed she walked away from the plane undaunted, being seen to "hobble" around until removal of the rope from her skirt.
To prevent tearing of the skirt when women attempted to walk in them, a fetter made of braid was sometimes worn around the skirt under the knees. There was also an elasticized band available that had two connected loops, one to be worn on each leg just below the knee, underneath the skirt; this invention also kept women from taking too large of a stride and tearing the skirt fabric. A few women adopted a style of wearing little trousers with a "harem"-influenced design of full fabric that became snug at the ankles. These trousers were visible below the hem of the skirt, but they were considered too scandalous by most people, and few women persisted in wearing the style.[4]
The archives of The New York Times between 1910 and the beginning of the First World War contain many detailed accounts of the hobble skirt wearers of the era. It seems that some New York fashion houses may have asked their dressmakers to interpret too literally the slim styles depicted in Paris fashion illustrations. Many women subsequently discovered the way of walking which such narrow skirts create, and the hobble skirt, impractical though it was, achieved tremendous popularity.
Although the term is sometimes used in reference to narrow ankle-length skirts in the early 1910s, some skirts of this period, although called hobble skirts, had slits, hidden pleats, and draping that lessened the restriction on a woman's ability to move freely, because in this period women were becoming more active in various activities which would have been impossible to do in a hobbled hemline. The most restricting extant styles from this period, which truly do hobble the wearer, are either evening wear or are found in wedding dresses when a woman was only required to take small measured steps down the aisle of a church.
Modern history
Long tight skirts reappeared through the century in various forms, particularly in evening gowns, as well as daytime pencil skirts popular from the 1950s onwards. A more literal interpretation of hobble skirts became a mainstay in bondage-oriented fetish fashion, often made out of leather, PVC, or latex. For example, they were a regular topic in the 1950s John Willie fetish magazine, Bizarre.
Hobble skirts are still present today in goth and BDSM communities, but are also sometimes used as evening gowns and wedding dresses and sometimes in other occasions although rarely due to restricting properties. A recent trend in fashion that resembles a Hobble Skirt, is the ''mermaid-tail/dress'', dubbed so because the dress' shape narrows and expands towards the bottom, similarly to a fish's tail-fin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobble_...
Chapter 10Page 212 Hardcover edition.
Yikes ! After all Orville has been through, he and Katharine are in a train crash where two people die and others were seriously injured.
Chapter 10Last page of chapter.
I thought the author made a good point that I didn't think about when reading the book.
"Further, as would become increasingly clear later, they had seen Europe at almost perfect time, when prosperity and peace prevailed, when American in abundance were discovering and enjoying the experience of European travel and the changes in outlook it brought as never before and when the horrors of modern, mechanized warfare were still to come."
Page 248Well, I didn't expect Edith Wharton to make an appearance in the book. :)
The book mentions in that section that Comte de Lambert had flown over the Eiffel Tower, the tallest structure at that time.
If I recall the video on my bike at the gym, the Chrysler building overtook it. Though one is a building and the other a structure.
I hope I am remembering it correctly.
Okay, I just looked it up and that's correct.
"The Pyramids of Egypt at 455 feet (139m) stood as the tallest structures on earth for millenia from 2,584 BC until Europeans built the 525 feet (160m) tall Lincoln Cathedral in 1185. After that, builders got busy with a “game of cathedrals” competing for tallest structure in the world for centuries until the Eiffel Tower was built in 1889 at a height of 1,063 feet (324m). The Eiffel Tower held its record for about 40 years until the Chrysler Building was built in 1928 at 1,046 feet (319m). Finally, a year later in 1929, the Empire State Building overtook the Chrysler Building, reaching 1,250 feet (381m) into the sky. It was the first building in history that if a human jumped from the top he would reach terminal velocity and stop accelerating before he reached the ground."
http://www.industrytap.com/the-talles...
EpilogueSo sad Wilbur died so young.
Why was Orville so upset that his sister was marrying ? To not attend the wedding and then almost not seeing her on her deathbed? Seems quite selfish and out of character with the rest of the books portrayal of him.
EpilogueI love Orville's quote. Seems he was just a simple man who happened to be a genius at what he did. His brother and he never really seemed in it for the money or glory.
"All the money anyone needs is just enough to prevent one from being a burden to others."
Epilogue.I love the last paragraph about Neil Armstrong. :) A fitting and touching tribute.
Just recently Buzz Aldrin was on Book TV with his new book.
You can watch it at this link.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?409591-...
After hearing him I put these on my TBR list.
No Dream Is Too High: Life Lessons From a Man Who Walked on the Moon- Buzz Aldrin
First Man: The Life of Neil A. Armstrong--James R. Hansen
Neil Armstrong: A Life of Flight--Neil Armstrong: A Life of Flight
Can anyone recommend any other astronaut books that they have read?
Well, I have my book group tomorrow. I'll report back with their thoughts and I continue to look forward to your posts on the book.
Thanks for joining this group read with me !
My final GR rating for the book was 3/5 stars.
This is about the entire book, so spoilers could be included.Alias asked if anyone has read de Tocqueville's book about America. I have not, although i started it once. Too boring for the 30 year old me. I haven't tried it since then.
I'll look forward to hearing what your book group thinks, Alias. I liked the book. You mentioned many of the things i also noted. Particularly the hobble skirt, as i only heard about it when i first began looking into feminism. How glad i was that was no longer popular. I wasn't aware of how favorable it is in the S/M world. Figures. Still, i was impressed by the fact that a woman came up with the Very Practical Idea for flying in a dress.
As a mark of the abilities of McCullough, i felt so attached to the family that i teared up when i learned Armstrong took a swatch of the original plane to the moon. How fitting. Ok, i'm still getting choked up, so maybe it's the tribute itself & not McCullough which moves me? ;-)
ANYway, no i have not read any books about astronauts themselves. I read The Astronaut Wives Club
by Lily Koppel and cannot recommend it. I've also read The Right Stuff by Tom Wolfe and, while it's good, it isn't really about those later astronauts you mentioned.
And while i'm at it, i'll mention another man, chosen to be an astronaut in the projected manned trip to Mars, which never happened, Brian O'Leary. He wrote a number of books, a couple of which explored ideas for things we could do in space, including Project Space Station. His biography, The Making Of An Ex Astronaut, was good, imo.
I also read & liked The Voyages of Apollo: The Exploration of the Moon by Richard S. Lewis. There was much i didn't know which was shared in the book. Can you tell i went through a period of reading about space launches & possibilities? LOL! I see that within the same year i also read two books by or about pilot Beryl Markham--West with the Night and Straight on Till Morning: The Biography of Beryl Markham by Mary S. Lovell.
Any questions? Sorry for the sidetrip.
I was happily surprised to read how much Wilbur enjoyed the Louvre! So many visits were mentioned in Chapter 7. His thoughts and the way he shared them with Orville when he arrived were neat. And it illustrated the breadth of their interests.
Alias, you mentioned the way Orville behaved when Katharine married. It is a shame and i couldn't help wondering about the very words he used. It's interesting that not much, really, was shared about that. Was it a sense of betrayal? Abandonment? Even accounting for his "peculiar spells", this was drastic.
I'll hold off further comments until tomorrow.
madrano wrote: " by or about pilot Beryl Markham--West with the Night Deb, thank you for the book recommendations.
I read and loved West with the Night --Beryl Markham I highly recommend it. It's very inspirational.
The group enjoyed the book a lot. I would guess they would rate it a bit higher than I did. One member had been to Kitty Hawk, so the book really resonated with her.
Deb, may I ask what was it that you didn't like about The Astronaut Wives Club ?
I agree, about the Markham book. Indeed, looking at my list of Books Read, it appears her book started all my other flight books! I was excited to read the Astronaut Wives Club and the first few chapters were great. Then it switched to almost be a People magazine piece--fashions and lifestyle. If she interviewed those women, she barely showed it. No sense of why most of them fell for their husbands, whether their children were impacted by the absence of their dads and so on. Actually, now that you have me thinking about it, it seemed as though they barely went beyond that part of their lives, particularly as far as insights about their lives then.
Additionally, it was disjointed. In fact after those first few chapters i had to force myself to finish. Holding out hope for something other than "popular life in the '60s" was one thing which kept me going.
madrano wrote: "I was excited to read the Astronaut Wives Club and the first few chapters were great. Then it switched to almost be a People magazine piece--fashions and lifestyle. ..."Thanks for explaining. I'll pass on it.
Alias Reader wrote: "madrano wrote: "I was excited to read the Astronaut Wives Club and the first few chapters were great. Then it switched to almost be a People magazine piece--fashions and lifestyle. ..."Thanks for..."
I may be 'odd man out' but I liked The Astronaut Wives Club. It did have a lot of fashion and lifestyle but it gave a compelling picture of what it was like to be thrust into the public eye. The families had to look 'perfect' for the public while their private lives were often in turmoil - with rampant cheating among the men and drinking and smoking among some wives (to cope). Almost all of them got divorced.
It is here on my shelf and somehow I thought it would be "soapy". I may get around to it only because my grandson bought it for me.
Barbara wrote: "I may be 'odd man out' but I liked The Astronaut Wives Club. It did have a lot of fashion and lifestyle but it gave a compelling picture of what it was like to be thrust into the pu..."Maybe I'll give it look at the library. I'll see. If I read a few books on the astronauts it might be a good compliment book to round things out.
Barbara, i agree but felt the same thing could have been done in a long magazine article. I feel there is a good book to be written about those women, i just didn't feel this was it. The film based on The Right Stuff was more compelling in sharing the wives side than this book and that is saying a lot for me, given how much i like reading.Still, i didn't mean to discourage anyone. I only meant that i didn't feel much about the women themselves and that seemed like a lost opportunity. However, one does get a sense of the culture of NASA and parts of the US in the '60s, although you can get the last part in a number of other books.
CHAPTER 11. The parade Dayton threw for the Wrights was remarkable. I knew that towns had large parades for native children but that seemed impressive. Since then i've run into a couple of other small city parades which also seem excessive. I guess it was just a great way to celebrate local celebrities and garner acclaim for their city. Nice.I was amused to read the part about a journalist taking notes about the Brothers that day and how they weren't always in the public eye. I'm not a bit surprised. It's endearing, isn't it?
Can you imagine the especial thrill afforded the brothers when they at last flew together? I got misty-eyed over that, imagining their conversation, shared glances and total delight. What a moment. How i would have liked to eavesdrop on their comments as they flew.
madrano wrote: Can you imagine the especial thrill afforded the brothers when they at last flew together? I got misty-eyed over that, imagining their conversation, shared glances and total delight. What a moment. How i would have liked to eavesdrop on their comments as they flew..."Yes. That was a nice moment.
I also like that his father's only recorded comments were "Higher, Orville, higher!" It was neat to learn that Katharine, Orville and their father marched in a Suffrage Parade. I'm guessing that meant something to the movement, too. I suppose it makes Orville's reaction to Katharine's marriage even more sad.
The Smithsonian's incredible work to rehabilitate the reputation of their failed airplane builder, Samuel P. Langley, and in doing so discredit the Wrights, was pathetic. Orville being outraged because they claimed the problem had been the aerodrome, not Langley’s machine was justified, in my opinion. SO they made major modifications and because it worked, their endorsed a statement, “Professor Samuel P. Langley had actually designed and built the first man-carrying flying machine capable of sustained flight.” was disappointing. And they knew it was a fraud as, before returning it to the Smithsonian, it was ordered to be returned to its original 1913 condition, major overhaul eliminated! Actions speak louder than words.
Finally, in his Acknowledgments, McCullough stated that it’s unfortunate “so few write letters or keep a diary any longer, the Wright papers stand as a striking reminder of a time when that was not the way and of the immense value such writings can have in bringing history to life.” Well stated, i feel. “Seldom ever did any of the Wrights—father, sons, daughter—put anything down on paper that was dull or pointless or poorly expressed. And much that they said to each other, and only to each other, was of great importance.” He states that in excess of a thousand family letters are part of the Library of Congress collection, plus large scrapbooks, “a gold mine of insights.”
One can only imagine what insights we lose when inventors and creators today do not write about their work in personal letters or journals. How much would have been lost without the Wright family papers. Hurrah for letter writing!
madrano wrote: The Smithsonian's incredible work to rehabilitate the reputation of their failed airplane builder, Samuel P. Langley, and in doing so discredit the Wrights, was pathetic. Orville being outraged because they claimed the problem had been the aerodrome, not Langley’s machine was justified, in my opinion. SO they made major modifications and because it worked, their endorsed a statement, “Professor Samuel P. Langley had actually designed and built the first man-carrying flying machine capable of sustained flight.” was disappointing. And they knew it was a fraud as, before returning it to the Smithsonian, it was ordered to be returned to its original 1913 condition, major overhaul eliminated! Actions speak louder than words...."I was shocked by this. The Smithsonian ! :(
The comments are terrific. This book is a joy to read for the dedication the brothers had.
Pauline wrote: "The comments are terrific. This book is a joy to read for the dedication the brothers had."Glad you are enjoying Book Nook Cafe, Pauline ! Welcome to our group. :)
I agree, Pauline. McCullough does a good job in illustrating the failures and so-close moments, as well as the fact the brothers immediately resumed work, inspired by what they learned. All sorts of adages come to mind but "Try, Try Again" seems the best for them.
I'm back. I'm way behind on this read but hope to catch up soon.I'm on vacation this week (went to visit family). Before leaving, I took the audio back and requested the book since I only listen to audio during my commutes. Just picked up the book and after I find my place, I'll be on my way again.
Hope to catch up with you all soon.....or hope you're all still checking in when I reach the end.
I am way behind too Petra. I haven't had any reading time and I am reading a fiction book at the same time too.
No problem, Petra & Julie. We are still discussing the book. Hope you enjoy it !
Yes, we're still here. I think you'll find it moves right along, too. At least i felt the book flowed easily. I wanted to ask the same question from our Discussion questions,
Alias Reader wrote: "Discussion questions...5. Why were the Wright brothers dismissed in the United States but taken seriously in France? What was the difference in culture and/or politics that generated interest on the part of the French but not the Americans?..."
I can understand why the French were interested because, as we read, there were many, many people experimenting with flying machines. However, the same was true in the US. So, why was there a disconnect? Even when the brothers let it be known they had a workable machine the silence was bizarre.
Do you think this is because in that era so many other experiments were going on? For instance, i wonder how many people claimed they flew over the years, only to show reporters, who pointed out they hadn't really succeeded? I have no idea and i'm not sure McCullough explained that enough to us. Perhaps it's just one of those failures of journalism.
It's great to see we're all still here!I found my place yesterday and am on my way again. I like the added pictures, too.
Madrano, from how I interpreted that section, the US Government had gotten their fingers burned already for using an incredible amount of taxpayer dollars for a failed experiment. The people were angry. It's a "once bitten, twice shy" situation. Someone (everyone?) in the Government offices were being short sighted and thinking only of the burn they'd already had and not of the alternatives. Had they only gone to have a look, they would have seen that the Wrights were on to something. But they never left their offices.
This is where I currently am reading. I'm looking forward to how the US Government reacts later.
"6. Wilbur and Orville displayed few emotions. Do you think this hampered the author in his attempt to characterize the two men, to portray them as rich, fully-developed human beings? How does McCullough bring them to life—does he, or doesn't he? Do the two men come across as heroic? Why or why not?"This question surprises me a bit. I find Orville & Wilbur to be perfectly normal people in terms of displaying emotion. They aren't as exuberant as some but the emotions are there. They are delighted with success, disappointed with failure, love their family members, are true to their friends, are polite & kind (note that freeloader guy who stayed with them in the cabin....they tolerated him and didn't persecute him).
If anything, their emotions were more dignified and understood within themselves than most people. They didn't seem to go off half-cocked because of the emotional feelings (ie: rant when angry or hug people on the street when elated); they accepted their "wins' and their "losses", examining both and moving forward.
They were very sure of their accomplishments and they examined (and learned from) their failures. They were really "salt of the earth" type people. I think I would have liked them a lot.
An interesting read, I didn't know about the patent lawsuits until I read this book.
madrano wrote: Why were the Wright brothers dismissed in the United States but taken seriously in France? What was the difference in culture and/or politics that generated interest on the part of the French but not the Americans?...""It seems the U.S. military didn't believe them. There was also the issue of them wanting a demonstration that if I recall the Wrights weren't willing to do.
Petra wrote: ""6. Wilbur and Orville displayed few emotions. Do you think this hampered the author in his attempt to characterize the two men, to portray them as rich, fully-developed human beings? How does McCullough bring them to life—does he, or doesn't he? Do the two men come across as heroic? Why or why not?"..."
Since the brothers were so self contained and didn't have an exciting social life, I thought it did hamper things a bit. Hence, my rating of 3/5. For me, 3 is a sold good read but nothing exceptional.
I did think their dedication and focus were amazing. However, it doesn't make for scintillating reading.
I'm glad the author didn't drag things out and make it a 500 page book. For me, around 300 was enough.
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I think this family is charmed in some way. They aren't rich, by any means, yet find the means to make their interests come true. From the tone so far, I don't think they went into the experiment of flight for the reason of becoming famous. This was truly a project of interest.
The two brothers are so close. It's touching. It's not often that one hears of such closeness. They truly seem to be each other's best friends.
The author is narrating the book. He's a sweet, elderly gentleman telling a story he really enjoys. I like his tone. It's comfortable and soothing.