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Do you post unpopular opinions on book discussion threads?
I love The Magicians. I also love how polarizing it is. It's a great example for this discussion.
In my opinion most people just can't see both sides to issues.
But I'm a Libra. By definition, we definitely fully analyze it from both sides. Balance = scales.
Chris wrote: "I love The Magicians. I also love how polarizing it is. It's a great example for this discussion."None of the actors in the TV show is what I expected in my head they were suppose to be when I was reading the book. I envisioned them to the more geeky and nerdy, but Syfy made them more hip, cool, and sexier. I guess the reason being is to attracted more new TV audience to the show.
Chris wrote: "But I'm a Libra. By definititon, we definitely fully analyze it from both sides. Balance = scales."That's not an issue, but a stated fact your a libra. So no argument on that issue is ever needed.
I've only seen the first episode, and I liked it a lot. I have the rest of them recorded and keep meaning to get caught up.
Chris wrote: "I've only seen the first episode, and I liked it a lot. I have the rest of them recorded and keep meaning to get caught up."Syfy I think has all their shows streaming up on their website for free.
For me it depends which group I am commenting in. Some groups are quite laid back and accepting of differing opinions. Others not so much:)
Chris wrote: "But I'm a Libra. By definition, we definitely fully analyze it from both sides. Balance = scales."And I'm a Gemini. I believe that means I can totally believe both sides and not understand that the two beliefs conflict ;)
Phrynne wrote: "Some groups are quite laid back and accepting of differing opinions. Others not so much:)"This is true. I have no problem posting unpopular opinions in any group, but some groups get hyper-protective over any perceived attacks on a book or author they like.
I've actually had people try to shout me down and shut me out of a conversation because I participated in a discussion about a book I hated, and was very clear about what I hated about it.
The best part? I am a moderator in that group.
Phrynne wrote: "For me it depends which group I am commenting in. Some groups are quite laid back and accepting of differing opinions. Others not so much:)"That's very true. I find that the number of commenters can make a difference, too. Like if I'm the one who doesn't like something and I'm reading with just a few people, I'm more likely to hold my contrary opinions back. But in a large group where you have 20+ people commenting, I usually don't have a problem with it.
I generally assume that my opinion is going to be unpopular, so I usually post it no matter which direction the thread seems to be going (though I'm learning to use some tact). Generally once a previously unpopular opinion is posted, a few others chime in agreeing with it. I think as long as out-and-out opinion fights are avoided, disagreeing is great--I like learning why people hold views contrary to mine :) Judging from the whole two episodes of it that I saw, The Magicians seems fun, though I didn't know it was based off a book--Christian Kane's character is my favorite :) thanks for the tip about it streaming on Syfy, Kevin! I've been wanting to catch up :D
I like hearing different opinions because it can make me see the book more fully. It can make me understand. I do dislike it when people act like their opinion is "right". People are different and we can't possibly have the same opinions. And it makes the world, and the publishing world, a more diverse and colorful place. Life would be boring if we were all carbon copies.
Nicki wrote: "Sarah Anne wrote: "In particular, Nicki mentioned that she loved The Magicians. I read that in my in person group and every single one of us hated it so I'm very curious about her opinion and her e..."Also I think that is the same reason why people really loved Among Others because they felt connection to the main character through her actions that they may have done themselves in the past.
Waxing lyrical indeed :) Your love of the book shows and you make some good points. I just got sick of his apathy and wanted to give him a swift kick in the backside.Now I'm thinking that I should give the second one a try, which means I need a sanity check.
Nicki wrote: "I want to do a reread myself..."Hmmm.....
I did meet Grossman at my college 2 years ago, he was the nicest person. I had a stack of The Magicians for him to sign.
I recently posted my dislike, and inability to finish, a book in a thread where I was definitely in the minority (although there were not a lot of posts). One of the moderators responded with a list of the awards the book has won, like that should somehow negate my opinion. Even if the list had included the Booker or National Book Award it wouldn't have changed my opinion, but his response convinced me that the participants only want their opinions reinforced. I will continue to observe the group because I generally like the kind of books they read, but I probably won't bother to enter their book discussions.
Faith wrote: "I recently posted my dislike, and inability to finish, a book in a thread where I was definitely in the minority (although there were not a lot of posts). One of the moderators responded with a lis..."That's an unpleasant experience :(
I like expressing my opinion, and I don’t care too much whether I’m part of the majority or the minority. Whether or not I actually post depends on a combination of factors:1. How busy I am. A debate can eat up a lot of time, since one post can lead to many more posts. Sometimes I’ll start typing up a reply to something and go “No, what are you doing, you don’t have time for this!” Then I close the window and walk away from temptation. :)
2. How much I care. If I don’t feel strongly about it, or if I’m not even sure how I feel about it, I usually won’t bother.
3. The setting. I think an open forum like this is a great place for a friendly debate. On the other hand, if I’m commenting on somebody else’s review, I’m going to reign myself in. Not that I think comments on reviews should only be things like “Your review was so wonderful, I agree with everything you said!” I definitely don’t think that. I just think the comments should be more carefully phrased and respectful because you’re in the reviewer’s space, sort of like a guest in their home.
I agree that it’s fun to see different opinions about things and I don’t mind being disagreed with. The main thing that will annoy me is when somebody acts like their opinion is fact, and there is no other logical opinion possible. That will often bring out my snarky side. I do think it's bizarre when somebody posts an opinion in a public forum and then acts horrified and put-down-upon if people react to that post in a way they didn't expect.
I can also understand, to follow up on some thoughts in the original thread, how people would be more easily offended if somebody is trashing a book they liked. If I post about how much I loved a book, and then somebody comes and posts that they thought the book was written for the lowest common denominator, then it will feel like they’re calling me the lowest common denominator. In that case, all I can do is take a step back and try to remember that the other person is just posting their opinion about a book and not about me personally. They may not have even bothered to read my own post, since more likely than not my post was very long! ;) It’s also something to be aware of when we’re expressing our dislike for a book -- how it might be interpreted by somebody who loved it. I think it helps to give specific examples of what was disliked rather than general negative statements, but sometimes people just want to express their opinion quickly and not write an essay and they should have that right.
At the risk of this being an unpopular view, I'd like to point out that my liking or disliking of a book, as well as any of your likes and dislikes, may not have anything to do with the quality of the book. There are some books that I've read where I could say that the book was well-written and possibly provocative -- and I still disliked it. Much more goes into liking or disliking than the work itself, because we all bring our own forms of baggage to what we read... and that baggage has its own influence, and sometimes is a force stronger than the most technically and stylistically outstanding book.
I think she was referring to the language rather than the opinion. By dismissing a book as stupid, it can be received as criticism against people who liked it. The opinion is fine, the attitude is more difficult.
In my opinion, usually most of the time, works of art should be viewed on its own merit along rather than the view points of the artist, but sometimes the artist own point of view is seen expressed right in their works of art.
Sarah Anne wrote: "I think she was referring to the language rather than the opinion. By dismissing a book as stupid, it can be received as criticism against people who liked it. The opinion is fine, the attitude is ..."Yep, thanks, that is what I was saying and you expressed it much more concisely. :) L.E. might not have been responding to me in particular; I couldn't tell.
I do agree with L.E. that a lot of different elements go into an opinion of a book, and also that whether you like it or dislike it doesn’t necessarily correlate with the quality of the writing. There have been times I've enjoyed books that I felt like I shouldn't have enjoyed, and vice versa.
Nicki wrote: "It's disappointing that a moderator would behave that way. Part of the job is to encourage discussion. Not that a mod shouldn't disagree, but they should do so in a way that furthers the discussion, not shuts it down. ."That's what I thought, but I guess moderators can be jerks too.
Nicki wrote: "If they want to encourage people to check out a book they enjoy, it certainly seems a less alienating way of doing so than visiting other people's spaces purely to disagree with them...."Yes, there's a difference between disagreeing and trying to harass someone into changing their opinion. That's guaranteed not to work.
I'd like to answer this question with a resounding "it depends".I've certainly done it...
But it depends on the thread and how open or how hostile they seem.
On how much I care about my opinion about the book (i.e. was it a resounding 'meh', or one of my special 'i loathe you and want to burn you' books?)
On my mood.
Like YouKneeK said, having the dissenting opinion, especially if you're the only one, can be kind of exhausting. Sometimes I'll state my opinion and reasons why, but refuse to get into having to 'defend' my position.
Sometimes if a book is just getting love (or vice versa), and I don't see anyone offering any kind of dissenting opinion... sometimes I'll bite the bullet and be the first, just to open the gates to others who may be a bit more hesitant.
Sometimes if there's only one other dissenter, I'll pop in and do a "me too", just so they know they're not alone - especially if they're getting lumped on.
And sometimes I'm tired or lazy and busy, and just can't be arsed.
Short answer, yes. Have I regretted this on occasion? Yes. Otherwise, Colleen, I'm with you.
Great topic!So I usually don't participate in forums about specific books too much, because a lot of the books that have specific forums (because they are popular), are books I don't like. (I'm an erotica author, but passionately dislike "Fifty Shades", for example.) I'm also trying to write and promote lately and deal with life stuff, so I've been unfortunately absent from here a bit.
What I see sometimes is readers talking at cross purposes, and I'll go back to the "Fifty Shades" example. I've seen people post about how it creeped them out, because Ana seems younger than her years, and it has a pedo feel for them, (this is actually something I agree with a bit). Then I've seen someone else who loved the book try to argue against that post, by saying it's a great book because her love saves him.
I don't remember the discussion from there specifically, (it was on some random form years ago), but it was clear that person two wasn't engaging with person one on what they objected to, and was instead trying to redefine the parameters of approval/disapproval to obtain a reaffirming result. I've seen it a little bit here and there on Goodreads in comments, (usually in response to a person's review as opposed to a forum post), but it made me wonder how often that goes on and further, how often a person's opinion is changed and how people use vastly different metrics to judge a book's worth.
I sometimes post reviews for books I read, and I've wondered if that's a good idea, because I tend to review books I really like, books that I felt had promise but disappointed, or books I really dislike. The last two are my concerns because I wonder if I also alienate potential audiences for my books by being critical of another author's work, which is a question for people here : if you saw an author criticise a book you liked, would you be less inclined to read the author who posted a negative review? It wouldn't necessarily change my behaviour, I'm just curious...
I generally read the dissenting reviews of books I select to see the quality of the opinions - it is easy to agree, especially when there is a loud chorus supporting you, but difficult to disagree if that same chorus is arrayed against you. I might still preview/buy the book, even if there are some lucid negative opinions, but at least then I feel I'm prepared.
I agree with Nicki. The only time it would affect whether or not I read the author would be if their reviews tend to be insulting or antagonistic. And like Nicki, if they write fair reviews, I might be more likely to read their books.I had virtually that same conversation with a friend over 50 Shades :)
Holly wrote: "if you saw an author criticise a book you liked, would you be less inclined to read the author who posted a negative review?"No. In fact, I've discovered authors through their critical reviews. One of my favorite reviewers is horror author Ed Lorn, and I only gave his books a try after I'd been friends with him here on Goodreads for a while and was curious about his work because of what he had to say about others'.
If a reviewer is petty about it, it's pretty obvious. If they are reviewing books fairly and because they really want to say something about the book, that's also pretty obvious.
It actually bugs me quite a bit when authors (well, ANY reviewer, really) will ONLY post positive reviews. That strikes me as lying by omission and will definitely turn me off of an author's work if that's how they operate.
L.E. wrote: "At the risk of this being an unpopular view, I'd like to point out that my liking or disliking of a book, as well as any of your likes and dislikes, may not have anything to do with the quality of the book. There are some books that I've read where I could say that the book was well-written and possibly provocative -- and I still disliked it. Much more goes into liking or disliking than the work itself, because we all bring our own forms of baggage to what we read... and that baggage has its own influence, and sometimes is a force stronger than the most technically and stylistically outstanding book...."This is a very good point. It really strikes home with a few particular books I read that were brilliantly written, yet I felt a strong dislike for them. In a couple of cases, I think this self polarizing influenced my dislike further because I felt let down by how much I disliked something that I should have loved.
If that makes sense.
Becky wrote: "The best part? I am a moderator in that group..."I know I know *raises hand*
Nicki, I just read your post about The Magicians and your insight makes it sound wonderful. I wish I could've got past everything I hated about it to see it that way. I'm just not that patient. Or kind. Lol
Yes, Nicki's analysis was awesome. So much better than my "I loved it".
While I generally agree with you about unfair criticism of homage or retelling type stories, I think sometime authors forget that not everyone has read everything they might use as source material. I had that problem with A Night in the Lonesome October, which paid homage and took inspiration from so many different places that it just seemed like a mess to me and I couldn't appreciate (or even understand) what the author was going for or trying to do. That's a risk, I think, for authors, and in my opinion that's fair criticism. I think that for readers who get it, they will appreciate it that much more, but it has to have a coherent story on its own as well.
Nicki wrote: "Aww, thank you both. :)I can totally understand why it's not for everyone, though. I read some negative reviews and think 'Yep, all of that is totally true' even though I love it. The only critic..."
That's why most people hate and have problems and issues with both The Sword of Shannara and The Iron Tower because they're too much like Lord of the Rings.
Nicki wrote: "Aww, thank you both. :)I can totally understand why it's not for everyone, though. I read some negative reviews and think 'Yep, all of that is totally true' even though I love it. The only critic..."
Actually you can trace every book back to the Bible.
This is like how I hate everybody says Grimdark comes from GoT really hasn't read Glen Cook. They never would expect an author from the 80s would write Grimdark, and expect everything to be a quest ripoff of Lord of the Rings.
Completely agree there. Giving a different perspective is one of the most intriguing aspects to retelling something. And now I totally want to read The Sundering! It sounds fascinating to get things from Sauron's perspective. :D
PS. No matter how careful I am when I comment from my phone, there's always about a billion typos. It's maddening. (If I edit every post like thirty times, that's why. LOL)
Sarah Anne wrote: "Do you post unpopular opinions on book discussion threads?"Ahh... Hahahahaha {schnort} {gasp} HAHAHAHAHA!
Sarah Anne wrote: "I like hearing different opinions because it can make me see the book more fully. It can make me understand. I do dislike it when people act like their opinion is "right". People are different and ..."Exactly. Tact is good, but I do like to have a rich discussion.
Sarah Anne wrote: "I think she was referring to the language rather than the opinion. By dismissing a book as stupid, it can be received as criticism against people who liked it. The opinion is fine, the attitude is more difficult."I've found that people take someone's dislike of a work personally. As if hating a book or movie means you also hate them. That is something that has perplexed me for decades.
Whenever it starts going down that road, I always ask, "Did you write it? No? Then stop being defensive about it." It's not like I called your kid ugly, I just don't like a book that you do like.
I usually don't post unpopular opinions on book discussion threads, but it's not because I'm worried about disagreeing with people or what people would think of it. For me, I'm just REALLY bad at explaining why I like or dislike something. I'm really bad at summarizing what I'm reading at all!I like to read in bed at night, and my husband loves to annoy me by asking me what I'm reading. The answer is always the same.. A book. If I tell him the title then he'd want to know what it's about... And I get frustrated trying to make my mind summarize what a book is about!
Likewise, when I like I book, usually all I can say is that I liked it. If I try to think of reasons why, I draw a blank. I think it was written well? But it might not have been. Sometimes I don't notice stuff like that when I get drawn into a story. If I absolutely HATE a book, I usually have a few reasons why... But putting them into words in a paragraph that makes sense is annoying. Screw that!
I consider myself a fairly smart person... I'm an engineer, I went to a really great college and graduated with honors. But reading comprehension has always been my downfall. I partially blame the college I went to. RC already wasn't a strong suit of mine (despite loving to read) in high school, and then I up and went to an engineer school. Our reading/writing class there was called "Written and Oral Communication" and we learned to write professional memos and resumes and stuff.
I've gotten off topic. Bottom line, I suck at book discussions because I can't put my feelings on books into words, and I don't post negative opinions because I'm too lazy to try.
Dawn wrote: "I consider myself a fairly smart person... I'm an engineer, I went to a really great college and graduated with honors. But reading comprehension has always been my downfall."Have you tried breaking a story down into its component parts? Put the engineering brain to good use the way youve trained it. Maybe then you will start to see similarities between books you like and don't like.
"The character was tall/short, brave/cowardly, one step ahead of everyone/always playing catch-up..." etc.
"The story took place in our world/on an alien planet. There were multiple species/only humans." And so on. Take a look at the "Clichés You Love" type of threads, maybe look at TV Tropes to see examples from books and movies you like in order to find similar works which use the same themes.
Edit: it's www.tvtropes.org
If someone has added it to the database, you can search it. For instance, The Martian: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/search_res...
See, that's a lot of work. I have to work at work, and reading is for fun after work, so I don't like to work at my reading. I love following the threads to see what other people think of books I've read or might read, but unless I'm feeling super passionate I'm just too lazy to do the work behind forming an opinion.
Dawn wrote: "For me, I'm just REALLY bad at explaining why I like or dislike something. I'm really bad at summarizing what I'm reading at all!"To stay off topic, I used to be this way as well, and also found it quite frustrating. Why couldn't I compose or verbalize any coherent thoughts? So I decided to start writing down whatever seemingly lame thoughts I did have for the books I was reading and then compose some kind of review. I tried to really think about why I did or did not like the book and to look for the deeper messages that might be there. These "reviews" were just for me and just to try to focus my thoughts.
I made a commitment to start doing this for each book I read, and low and behold, I started to get better at recognizing what I liked or didn't like about the books I was reading. And, I started to get better at putting my thoughts into words. It actually became fun.
I am not suggesting this will work for you, but I seemed to for me. Back on topic now.
Dawn wrote: "See, that's a lot of work. I have to work at work, and reading is for fun after work, so I don't like to work at my reading. I love following the threads to see what other people think of books I've read or might read, but unless I'm feeling super passionate I'm just too lazy to do the work behind forming an opinion. "Well, as long as you aren't slacking off when it comes to designing bridges....
Edwin wrote: "I made a commitment to start doing for each book I read, and low and behold, I started to get better at recognizing what I liked or didn't like about the books I was reading. And, I started to get better at putting my thoughts into words. It actually became fun."For me, this is the most valuable aspect of knowing what you like or dislike: there isn't enough time to get to everything, so having a system in place to find things you will enjoy means you won't be wasting your time.
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Swiss Family Robinson (other topics)The Swiss Family Robinson (other topics)
English as She Is Spoke (other topics)
Fifty Shades of Grey (other topics)
Matilda (other topics)
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In particular, Nicki mentioned that she loved The Magicians. I read that in my in person group and every single one of us hated it so I'm very curious about her opinion and her experience, since that book is so polarizing.
What about you guys? I tend to avoid posting negative comments if I'm going to rain on someone's happy parade, but in larger groups I don't usually mind. I just try to make sure I use non-accusatory language.