Tournament of Books discussion
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2016 Tournament of Books
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Guest Interview with Nozlee
Thank you, Nozlee, for this Q & A opportunity. I am aware that the work you put in (almost invisibily, to us) to bring out the ToB each year must be grueling at times. I hope you have some fun, too, because we sure do!I have a two-part question:
Based on things I've read before, many (if not all) of the judgements and tier winners are known long before the tournament kicks off.
--How soon in the process do you have to go incognito or into hiding to avoid being kidnapped/tortured/bribed to reveal the winner?
--Have there ever been any leaks?
The Zombie Round seems to be the most contentious feature of ToB. Discussion groups like this always include a seemingly equal number of fans and non-fans. (I'm neutral on the subject; I don't care what you guys do, I love it all.)Have you ever considered some slight modifications to the Zombie Round:
--Hold the Zombie poll a little later on, rather than immediately upon announcing the short list? Many folks are scrambling to read books they haven't already read or even heard of, and later regret their Zombie pick. (I'm from the "books I've read are always better than books I haven't read" school, so that's how I always vote.)
--Include *all* the books from the long list in the Zombie poll, allowing for even deeper rising from the grave?
Hi, Nozlee, and thanks for all you and the gang does to put on the ToB and for doing this Q&A!!! Could you walk us through the behind-the-scenes timeline?
Hi Nozlee, My question, or more so, curiosity is around the Authors who are knocked out during the tourney or don't make the brackets. Do you ever have negative or 'competitive' feedback from them. I know the readers defend their fav books with a passion so I assume you have a few stories you could share?
Thanks for putting the sport into reading!
Cheers,
Ace
Will the biblioracle be returning this year? *please, please, please*
Hi Nozlee, My main question is about the process of selecting judges---are people interested, or are you twisting arms? Are you looking for judges who already know about the ToB, or are you looking for newbies?
Are you all as surprised as we are about how much of a life this thing has taken on and how passionate people are about it?
What part of the ToB do you personally enjoy the most?
Do you ever pick a book for TOB for reasons other than you liked reading it? Maybe because you want to add a different kind of read to the mix, or to challenge us, or maybe just to mess with us?
Thank you so much for doing this. My question is what book or books have generated the most debate among the organizers regarding their inclusion or exclusion in the TOB?
Is there a set U.S. publication date cut off for consideration for the TOB?
Inquiring minds want to know...Is there a theme for the selections, it seems like the crowd speculates this and maybe it's all a coincidence?
AmberBug wrote: Thanks to the alt-TOB, we have attracted the attention of Nozlee & Rosecrans (who have been following along). ..."Nozlee & Rosecrans - I suggest this be trademarked for future use. A law firm? A haute couture house of fashion? Or (my vote) a bookstore?!?
Why don't the commentators read all the books they're 'judging' the judgments on?* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *
Are the Zombies typically the ones with big publishing houses or marketing dollars behind them?* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *
Why are the zombie votes closed so early?* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *
How are books paired up to go head to head? Do you consider the bracket as a whole and how books will potentially face each other in later rounds or do you primarily set it up based on first round? Or is it random?* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *
Does the committee intentionally exclude a few great/well-reviewed books and include quirky/experimental books that you know won't go far, just to spark discussion/outrage?* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *
Can you tell us about how Oreo made it into the TOB considering it was originally published in 1974?* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *
How much of a book is read before greenlighting it for the long or shirt lists? (first page, first chapter, word of mouth enough?)
What criteria is used to reduce the long-list down to the final 16? (some of our other threads had great speculation like "one experimental WTF entry, one current social issue theme, one satire, one short story collection..." etc.)
What elimination criteria are used to pare down the longlist?* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *
Do you have a "biggest regret"--a book that you read later and desperately wished had been in the ToB?
It seems TOB started out as a lark, as an anti-book-award, and yet now people pay attention to it as if it were a "real" award for literary merit/best book of the year, where authors write press releases, or thank you on twitter at least, and people write articles about the winner. Are you becoming a Real Literary Award in spite of yourselves? How do you think the role of TOB in book culture has changed over the years, and how do you feel about it?
which book were you rooting for this year?
Hey folks! It's 4 o' clock and I'm excited to be here answering questions about the ToB. Here's how it's going to go down:- I'm going to start at the top right now, quoting questions as I go to answer them.
- There are some duplicate-ish questions here -- hope it's okay if I skip those for my typing fingers' sake.
- I hope we get some back-and-forths going! For the sake of the rudimentary Goodreads threading format, remember to select "reply" before typing.
A little bit about me: I've been involved with The Morning News since 2008, and in 2010 I started helping out with the ToB, eventually getting so involved (hey, I love wrangling dozens of Google docs) that I became its producer. In my non-ToB time I enjoy not reading as much as I'd like to, throwing dinner parties, sewing, and oh yeah, my day job as a software engineer.
IT'S ROOSTER TIME LET'S GET STARTED.
Mainon wrote: "Do you have a "biggest regret"--a book that you read later and desperately wished had been in the ToB?"oooh! yes please... do tell!
Lljones wrote: "Thank you, Nozlee, for this Q & A opportunity. I am aware that the work you put in (almost invisibily, to us) to bring out the ToB each year must be grueling at times. I hope you have some fun, too, because we sure do!I have a two-part question:
Based on things I've read before, many (if not all) of the judgements and tier winners are known long before the tournament kicks off.
--How soon in the process do you have to go incognito or into hiding to avoid being kidnapped/tortured/bribed to reveal the winner?
--Have there ever been any leaks? "
We're all pretty practiced at laying low! I made a lil misstep this year by tweeting this: https://twitter.com/nzle/status/67900..., although neither of those page counts were 100% factual. Occasionally someone asks how prep for the Rooster is going at a party and I'll have to wiggle my eyebrows and shrug and change the subject. But honestly, my answer to anyone who wants to know ahead of time what's going on in that year's tournament is that you're cheating yourself out of a *lot* of fun by knowing.
There have never been *leaks* per se -- not in the malicious sense. What did once happen in the indeterminate past is that a judge [gonna use gender-neutral pronouns here] loved one of their books so much that they tweeted about it a few weeks after the shortlist was out, and an enterprising fan put two and two together and tweeted a guess that it was still in the tournament. We politely asked both parties to delete their tweets, and all was well.
So I would say that we're all good on kidnapping and torturing, but Twitter, man. It'll get you.
Nozlee wrote: "I made a lil misstep this year by tweeting this:..."Yup! you probably noticed some speculation here once those page numbers came out! (several admitted to spreadsheeting the longlist page # deets!) we'll take even the smallest hints!
Amy wrote: "Nozlee wrote: "I made a lil misstep this year by tweeting this:..."Yup! you probably noticed some speculation here once those page numbers came out! (several admitted to spreadsheeting the longlis..."
I was the human manifestation of the following emoji while following the Goodreads thread speculating on all that: [Goodreads is deleting my emoji so anyway, the "speak no evil" monkey face]
Jan wrote: "Hi, Nozlee, and thanks for all you and the gang does to put on the ToB and for doing this Q&A!!! Could you walk us through the behind-the-scenes timeline?"Sure thing -- so first off, in a sense the timeline never ends! Here's a rough timeline of how the Rooster comes together over the course of a year:
- March 31: the previous year's tournament wraps up, and I put the final touches on the "stuff to remember for next year" list that includes every new book recommended in the comments of the last judgement.
- April - November-ish: Rosecrans, Andrew, Kevin, John, and I keep an eye on new fiction: reading reviews and tracking particular buzz, noting who is winning the big awards, and, of course, reading.
- November: we start reaching out about that year's judges. This can take a while, since it's a pretty big time commitment we're asking for! In the meantime, we start having conversations about the longist: consulting that list from March again and adding to it until it's enormous.
- December: One of the busiest months of the year: we're pruning the longlist for publication while *also* deciding on the shortlist (more on that in future answers), we're seeding the brackets, assigning judges to matchups, sifting through reader judge polls and Zombie polls, and finally, around Christmas we send out the books for round 1.
- January - end of February: things slow down a *little*, but not really? There's the regular cycles of sending out books, getting decisions, sending out new books, getting judgements, editing judgements, getting commentary, copy editing judgements and commentary, which ranges from hellish (eight essays at once in Round 1) to totally fine (just two essays in the semifinals and Zombie round)!
- March: everything goes wild -- judgements are going up every day, I read every. single. comment. that goes up on the site, and we're still ticking towards the final, which isn't in until mid-March. It's an exciting, energetic time.
- March 31: bourbon + a nap. And then it starts again.
Adding in new question:This was mentioned in another thread (https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...), so I will bring it forward here:
"what did [you] think when [you] heard an alt-TOB was going on? what did [you] think of our list of 16*? did the alt-TOB worm into [your] process in any way? inquiring minds!! :) "
* - if you paid it any attention, of course. :)
Thanks, Nozlee!!
Ace wrote: "Hi Nozlee, My question, or more so, curiosity is around the Authors who are knocked out during the tourney or don't make the brackets. Do you ever have negative or 'competitive' feedback from them. I know the readers defend their fav books with a passion so I assume you have a few stories you could share?
Thanks for putting the sport into reading!
Cheers,
Ace"
I love this question! We totally call the Tournament "literary bloodsport," but the following tweets from John Green (whose book lost by a landslide in 2014), Seth Colter Walls (whose book Gaza, Wyoming was on this year's longlist) and Celeste Ng (whose book was out in one round in 2015 but who is gamely back this year as a judge) are much more typical reactions:
https://twitter.com/johngreen/status/...
https://twitter.com/sethcolterwalls/s...
https://twitter.com/pronounced_ing/st...
Dianah wrote: "Will the biblioracle be returning this year? *please, please, please*"You can try asking nicely on Twitter if he'd consider it, but it's a *ton* of work! Or you can submit your last five books to John's weekly column at the Chicago Tribune: http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifesty...
Neighbors wrote: "Hi Nozlee, My main question is about the process of selecting judges---are people interested, or are you twisting arms? Are you looking for judges who already know about the ToB, or are you looking for newbies?
Are you all as surprised as we are about how much of a life this thing has taken on and how passionate people are about it?
What part of the ToB do you personally enjoy the most? "
We've gotten into a rhythm in more recent years with judges: we're always thrilled when an author whose book was in the tournament wants to come back as a judge -- often it's even something they'll bring up with us. Otherwise we aim for a good balance of writers/editors, non-writers/editors, and anyone else we think would have a good angle when asked to perform the arbitrary task of deciding between two books. We don't screen for prior interest in the ToB, but more than once Rosecrans has reached out to someone who turns out to be a closet superfan!
And omg, we're constantly thrilled that people are as into this as we are. It's a ton of work but it's worth it for the community that's sprung up around it. We love it!
As for my favorite part, I will say that I derive a goofy amount of personal satisfaction from holding on to so many secrets for so long, and then finally seeing them out in the world months later. That, and helping get more books sold in the world.
Nozlee wrote: "Dianah wrote: "Will the biblioracle be returning this year? *please, please, please*"You can try asking nicely on Twitter if he'd consider it, but it's a *ton* of work! "
I thought Dianah was asking would John Warner be back - but now I see there must have been some sort of biblioracle events in previous years - when would that have been?
(I submitted a "last five read" list to John at Chicago Tribune sometime last year. His recommendation to me: the book I had just finished while I was waiting for his reply! It was fun though, will do it again someday.)
Beth wrote: "Is there a set U.S. publication date cut off for consideration for the TOB?"No, unless you mean December 31 of that calendar year. We're always doing our best to keep track of books published later in the year.
Lljones wrote: "AmberBug wrote: Thanks to the alt-TOB, we have attracted the attention of Nozlee & Rosecrans (who have been following along). ..."Nozlee & Rosecrans - I suggest this be trademarked for future use. A law firm? A haute couture house of fashion? Or (my vote) a bookstore?!?"
It's funny that you ask -- this is actually the name of the combination nacho shop-and-ski gear shop we're opening at Lake Tahoe after this year's tournament ends and we officially retire.
(Kidding, we're not retiring! Also hope you like nachos though.)
Lljones wrote: "Nozlee wrote: "Dianah wrote: "Will the biblioracle be returning this year? *please, please, please*"You can try asking nicely on Twitter if he'd consider it, but it's a *ton* of work! "
I thought Dianah was asking would John Warner be back - but now I see there must have been some sort of biblioracle events in previous years - when would that have been?
(I submitted a "last five read" list to John at Chicago Tribune sometime last year. His recommendation to me: the book I had just finished while I was waiting for his reply! It was fun though, will do it again someday.) "
Yeah, in past years during the Tournament, intrepid commentator John Warner has set up Biblioracle office hours and answered dozens of queries in just a couple of hours! The pace set at his column is much more humane.
AmberBug wrote: "Why don't the commentators read all the books they're 'judging' the judgments on?* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *"
Time is finite, of course, and 16 novels is an awful lot of novels. Also, in a definitional sense, the commentators' full text is the text of the judgements themselves, not the novels being judged! Many of my favorite of John and Kevin's commentaries have been cases in which each had read only one of the books at hand, leading them to relate their individual points to the other's ideas instead of drawing on a shared knowledge base.
as you said, "Time is finite" - how many TOB entries are you typically able to get to prior to the bracket decisions?
AmberBug wrote: "Are the Zombies typically the ones with big publishing houses or marketing dollars behind them?* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *"
"Why are the zombie votes closed so early?
* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *"
Combining two questions here! We have no control over what Zombies are picked -- it's a poll, after all -- but yeah, generally people vote for what they know, and on average that means the bigger books end up lurching back to life after being struck down.
There's no good reason as to why we keep the voting to one week, but if everyone is voting only once as I know you all do then there's not a lot of motivation to keep publicizing the poll on the site and on social media for longer than that.
Lljones wrote: "The Zombie Round seems to be the most contentious feature of ToB. Discussion groups like this always include a seemingly equal number of fans and non-fans. (I'm neutral on the subject; I don't care what you guys do, I love it all.)Have you ever considered some slight modifications to the Zombie Round:
--Hold the Zombie poll a little later on, rather than immediately upon announcing the short list? Many folks are scrambling to read books they haven't already read or even heard of, and later regret their Zombie pick. (I'm from the "books I've read are always better than books I haven't read" school, so that's how I always vote.)
--Include *all* the books from the long list in the Zombie poll, allowing for even deeper rising from the grave? "
Continuing on the Zombie front! We announce the Zombies along with the short list mostly because that's when interest is running highest and we can get the most votes, but I'm interested in your first proposition, actually.
As to including the entire goddamn long list, I would fear that this would exacerbate the "best-known books always win" problem, or spread the votes out so thin that the top Zombies would all have basically the same number of votes. That's not counting the fact that we'd have no way to prevent judge conflicts that late in the game. A fun thought experiment though!
Nozlee wrote: "There's no good reason as to why we keep the voting to one week,... there's not a lot of motivation to keep publicizing the poll on the site and on social media for longer than that. ..."I had a similar question but it was more along the lines of... why not have the Zombie poll later? Right now it is within a week of announcing the short-list whereas one month later would give more time to focus reading on the short-listers... is there an urgency due to timing of quarterfinals decisions?
AmberBug wrote: "Can you tell us about how Oreo made it into the TOB considering it was originally published in 1974?* This question is spreadsheet submitted & Anonymous *"
Yeah, wasn't that a cool choice?? For years we've bandied around the idea of including reissues in the ToB, and this year we did it. There are just so many houses doing an excellent job of reissuing work that wasn't appreciated enough the first time around, and I think treating that choice to reissue as equivalent to the choice to publish new work is a really cool development for the Rooster. (No promises that we'll do it again, but very happy with the decision this year.)
Amy wrote: "Nozlee wrote: "There's no good reason as to why we keep the voting to one week,... there's not a lot of motivation to keep publicizing the poll on the site and on social media for longer than that. ..."I had a similar question but it was more along the lines of... why not have the Zombie poll later? Right now it is within a week of announcing the short-list whereas one month later would give more time to focus reading on the short-listers... is there an urgency due to timing of quarterfinals decisions? "
Yep, it's because of the quarterfinals and also making sure we can reference the Zombie results at the end of each round's commentary. Honestly the thought of having yet another piece of information stay an unknown until later during this whole process kind of gives me hives, but it's something we can consider for next year.
Nozlee wrote: "Amy wrote: "Nozlee wrote: "There's no good reason as to why we keep the voting to one week,... there's not a lot of motivation to keep publicizing the poll on the site and on social media for longe..."I have to jump in here early with a great big THANK YOU NOZLEE. I'm so intrigued by everything you're writing here. I've been away for about an hour and it's great to come back to all of your answers. I'm especially thoughtful about how TOB sounds like nearly a year-round commitment for you--with peaks and valleys of course but still a lot of work year-round to pull it off.
poingu wrote: "which book were you rooting for this year?"omg there are so many ways I could flub the answering of this question that my answer has been censored: ██████████████
Nozlee wrote: "poingu wrote: "which book were you rooting for this year?"omg there are so many ways I could flub the answering of this question that my answer has been censored: ██████████████"
!!
Hmm I sort of love that you didn't say "I love them all equally"
poingu wrote: "It seems TOB started out as a lark, as an anti-book-award, and yet now people pay attention to it as if it were a "real" award for literary merit/best book of the year, where authors write press re..."I super big-time second this question and am already fascinated by what the answer might be...
Nozlee wrote: "Yep, it's because of the quarterfinals and also making sure we can reference the Zombie results at the end of each round's commentary. Honestly the thought of having yet another piece of information stay an unknown until later during this whole process kind of gives me hives, but it's something we can consider for next year...."oooh. so I need to get reading earlier! Also... are the Zombie vote results published somewhere then!? I hadn't picked up on that. I certainly noticed commentary discussing them but thought they had some insider knowledge! I need to edit my personal bracket!
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What happens in the background of this event? How do they decide the books? Etc, etc...
I know many of you have brought up queries as to how things are done and now you'll get a chance to have those curiosities sated.
When? February 22nd starting at 1pm (PST)/4pm (EST) and questions will close at 5pm (PST)/8pm (EST).
We will be opening up this discussion topic a day or two before the event, during this time, you will be able to post questions that Nozlee may answer.
On behalf of everyone from this group, we would like to thank Nozlee for offering us this fantastic opportunity and also a big thank you to Jennifer & Poingu for hosting the alt-TOB (if it wasn't for them... we wouldn't have gathered the attention from Nozlee & Rosecrans).