Doctor Who: The Library of Carsus discussion
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Revisiting Troughton, etc.
I've come to love Doctors one and two, as for the longest time there was so little of their stories available.With the arrival of the new show and the BBC releasing anything they can get their hands on, I've been able to go back and see some stories that I'd only ever heard about or read the Target novel.
Been so great to go back and watch the shows mythology being built and get reminded how much I love crowded Tardis companion groups.
Good stuff.
I am finding a new love of Troughton. In addition to being in the midst of Web of Fear, I also picked up The Seeds of Death. I only had that one incomplete on an off the air VHS. The DVD is nice and crisp and I really like this story. I bit elongated, but then many classic Who 6-parters could be excellent 5-partners (or 4-parters).Realized I now have more Troughton on DVD than any other classic Doctor. Who'd have thunk it.
I've always liked Troughton ever since I first saw him in The Five Doctors. Once I got a chance to see some of his stories, it only confirmed it for me. He's so great! It's a shame his era was hit the hardest in terms of missing episodes.I didn't really think much of the first Doctor. Even watching An Unearthly Child and The Daleks really doesn't do him justice. He really starts to shine towards the end of the 1st season. By the 2nd season, he's downright hilarious! Still mischievous, still a bit cranky sometimes, but often he's a total goofball. He's great!
Same with the 6th Doctor, didn't like him much at all, at first. I stopped watching when Davison was replaced by Colin Baker. Only now, years later, as an adult, can I finally appreciate how awesome he was. He's a little like Bugs Bunny, running circles around the villains, always one step ahead. He's unpredictable, sometimes a bit fierce, but it's always in a good way.
William Hartnell and Patrick Troughton are my two favorites of the classic series. I love how the writers and the actors were literally making it up as they went along. There’s a freshness and a vitality in those first six seasons that I don’t sense again until the new series, 2005-2009, and even then it’s not the same as with Hartnell and Troughton. I just finished rewatching The Mind Robber, which is one of my favorites. I love how surreal it is. I love how they inventively figure out a way to recast Jamie for part of two episodes when Frazer Hines got the chickenpox, or whatever it was. I love the humor, the delight of seeing literary characters in the series. I love it just feels so different, evolving even, from episode to episode. It just such an entertaining episode.
Really hoping the reconstructions get fandom more awareness of the Troughton era, as he deserves more love.Always liked him in the 3 and 5 Doctor specials, but now having seen most of his run, he's become one of my favorites.
I’ve finally gotten his entire run either on DVD or on CD (for those that are lost and not yet animated). The only one I haven’t gotten to yet is The Space Pirates. I just started rewatching The Invasion this morning.
Just rewatched The Krotons. Superficially, this feels all rather unremarkable. And on the first viewing that probably what I felt. But I think I’ve gained some new respect for this one. It’s not particularly strong, but it’s pretty darn well structured. The cliffhangers are pretty good. Instead of just throwing a sudden danger in the middle of an otherwise typical scene, the tension builds to the cliffhanger, making them all the more effective. The Krotons may be a bit dodgy looking, but their motivation holds up (the execution of the plan may be more than a wee bit daft, but the goal makes sense). The way the arrival on the planet is handled particularly well: odd smell of sulfur and the appearance of two suns. Patrick Troughton is in good form and his companions are put to good use, meaning that they have productive things to do that play to their strengths. Yes, a good solid serial. Could it have been better, certainly. But a well developed serial nonetheless.
Rick wrote: "Just rewatched The Krotons. Superficially, this feels all rather unremarkable. And on the first viewing that probably what I felt. But I think I’ve gained some new respect for this one. It’s not pa..."It's a solid little story.
The Tardis crew is one of my favorites, and solidly written.
The Krotons are interesting, if a little clunky looking, and a shame they never come back.
It doesn't get much attention, but it fun.
Yep. Tomorrow I’ll probably be doing The Seeds of Death.
Rick wrote: "Yep. Tomorrow I’ll probably be doing The Seeds of Death."Another good one.
I love Ice Warriors.
Moonbase is supposed to show up on Monday.
Looking forward to more Troughton.
Travis wrote: "... Moonbase is supposed to show up on Monday.Looking forward to more Troughton."
Have you seen Moonbase before? I love how the figured out to do with Jamie in that one. When it was written, he still wasn’t a companion so there was no presence of him in the script. His part and lines were added quickly. And he spends 2 episodes, I think, in bed saying “The Silver Piper” in a slightly delusional way. Hines says it was the easiest acting job he ever had. 😹😹😹
Rick wrote: "Travis wrote: "... Moonbase is supposed to show up on Monday.Looking forward to more Troughton."
Have you seen Moonbase before? I love how the figured out to do with Jamie in that one. When it wa..."
Nope. First time seeing it.
Alot of the epic rewatch is me seeing most of the first three Doctors stories for the first time.
Travis wrote: "Nope. First time seeing it.Alot of the epic rewatch is me seeing most of the first three Doctors stories for the first time."
Cool 😸
Let me know what you think.
Just finished rewatching The Seeds of Death. UNLEASH THE FOAM! 😹😹😹
I do enjoy this one. While the villain’s plot isn’t anyway near as whack as in The Wheel in Space or The Tomb of the Cybermen, it does seem a bit silly to try and invade a world that has a surface area that is 2/3 covered with water when your initial weapon is so vulnerable to water. Still, this base under siege story holds up pretty well. Jamie’s loyalty to the Doctor shines through and Zoe gets to shine as well. It moves along at a good pace, and I can even overlook the absurd time compressions and expansions necessary to travel from the earth to the moon and into solar orbit (yeah, okay that part is a bit hard to accept - but it’s Doctor Who 🤷🏻♂️). And, of course, the cast gets to play in foam! 😹
Rick wrote: "Just finished rewatching The Seeds of Death. UNLEASH THE FOAM! 😹😹😹
I do enjoy this one. While the villain’s plot isn’t anyway near as whack as in The Wheel in Space or The Tomb of the Cybermen, i..."
Love Ice Warriors, so I will forgive their clunky masterplan.
Like the idea of a society that operates by transmat.
Another chunk of the Who-universe that deserves exploring.
Travis wrote: "... Like the idea of a society that operates by transmat. Another chunk of the Who-universe that deserves exploring."Agreed.
Moonbase: Waitaminute! They just recycled this script to make revenge of the Cybermen!It is a fun story, but wildly uneven.
Decent feeling of menace and I've come to really like this Tardis crew, love the look of old school Cybermen and referencing the Tenth Planet.
Very cool to realize this was only their second appearance, so it must have been a big deal, having them return, as Who had very few reoccurring bad guys, besides the Daleks.
Also cool to realize the Cybermen were the big foe in the Troughton era. They had 4 stories, where the Daleks only had two.
Unfortunately, the BBC budget did not allow for creating the greatest base.
Even my wife commented that she'd rather they went to the one with the girls in the purple wigs.
Also, the actors can't pull off 'moon acting' so the outside chase scenes aren't as suspenseful as intended.
Plus, you can see the Cybermen are obviously wearing shoes!
What's up with that?
Travis wrote: "Moonbase: Waitaminute! They just recycled this script to make revenge of the Cybermen! It is a fun story, but wildly uneven. ..."It is uneven, but I really like this serial. Even if Jamie gets left in bed for so long with the “Phantom Piper.” It’s another daft Cybermen story, but I love the way they look and gimbal about on the lunar surface. It’s all so camp. 😹😹😹
Just finished up The Space Pirates on audio. Narration read by Frazer Hines on the Doctor Who: The Lost TV Episodes Collection Five: Second Doctor TV Soundtracks. It’s a wonderful story without aliens or monsters, just a human threat and surviving in space. Almost a historical of the future. Just wonderful.
Rick wrote: "Travis wrote: "Moonbase: Waitaminute! They just recycled this script to make revenge of the Cybermen! It is a fun story, but wildly uneven. ..."It is uneven, but I really like this serial. Even i..."
Love the design of old school cybermen and what this story lacks in budget it makes up in jump scares and just the joy of seeing Troughton in action.
He can be very fun and eccentric, but there are long stretches in episode 3 where he's just standing around, very passively watching, but you can see the wheels turning.
Travis wrote: "... but there are long stretches in episode 3 where he's just standing around, very passively watching, but you can see the wheels turning."I know! I love that about Troughton, when the Doctor’s just standing there and he’s working something through in his head. It’s almost like you can see steam coming out of his noggin or the gears behind his eyes shifting, turning, reshaping into a new configuration in order to solve this new puzzle, dilemma, conundrum. He’s such a delight to watch. In The Space Pirates there a couple of moments when Jamie or Zoe make a comment like He’s got that look again or Shush, he’s thinking and I have a moment of sadness as we don’t have the visuals to go with it, but then my mind fills in the image and there’s Troughton doin his thing. 😻😻😻
I've always had a fondness for Troughton, but rewatching his era, he has become one of my favorite Doctors.Getting to see his series in order, seeing the mythology being built and how good he and his Tardis crews were has been so much fun and given me a new appreciation.
Another moonbase thought: has anyone done a story dealing with the dozens of cybermen floating around in space?Seems like a prefect story idea.
Travis wrote: "Another moonbase thought: has anyone done a story dealing with the dozens of cybermen floating around in space?Seems like a prefect story idea."
😹😹😹 I have no idea. Go for it! 😸😸😸
Rick wrote: "Travis wrote: "Another moonbase thought: has anyone done a story dealing with the dozens of cybermen floating around in space?Seems like a prefect story idea."
😹😹😹 I have no idea. Go for it! 😸😸😸"
The floating Cybermen and the lost Ice Warrior fleet from Seeds of Death have always been on my list.
Always bugged me that nobody else scooped them up for a story.
Travis wrote: "... Always bugged me that nobody else scooped them up for a story."🤔🧐🤔
Started The War Games over the weekend, I’d forgotten how good this story is. Starting out like it’s a historical and slowly, and continually, evolving and changing, adding layers and twists. That moment when the War Chief and the Doctor see each other and recognize one another for who they are in episode four is priceless. I’ll probably finish it tonight.
Even knowing the 'surprise twist' of War Games, it's very cool, seeing it change from historical to sci-fi epic.Good sized cast keeps it busy and it rarely feels padded.
The General switching accents, depending on what time zone he's talking to, is cute, but man, he cannot pull off a southern accent.
Yeah, the “southern American” accents are laughably awful 😹😹😹
My copy of the animated Evil of the Daleks has shipped. 😸
Rick wrote: "My copy of the animated Evil of the Daleks has shipped. 😸"Very cool.
My copy has a delivery date. I think it's end of November.
Travis wrote: "Rick wrote: "My copy of the animated Evil of the Daleks has shipped. 😸"Very cool.
My copy has a delivery date. I think it's end of November."
Listed as “out for delivery” now. So I’ll probably have it when it get home from the library today. 😸
Rick wrote: "Travis wrote: "Rick wrote: "My copy of the animated Evil of the Daleks has shipped. 😸"Very cool.
My copy has a delivery date. I think it's end of November."
Listed as “out for delivery” now. So..."
Mine's supposed to show up before Thanksgiving, but I won't be heartbroken/surprised if it shows up after.
Travis wrote: "Mine's supposed to show up before Thanksgiving, but I won't be heartbroken/surprised if it shows up after."It’s arrived! And now I’m not gonna watch it right away, cuz I’m in the middle of Haunting of Bly Manor and I need to return it tomorrow. I’m off Wednesday, Thursday and Friday for the holiday. I’ll just need to go in Friday morning to make sure the return drop chute isn’t clogged up. I’m also housesitting for a friend, so I’ll be trying to binge a couple things on Netflix. Probably Pose season 3 and Lost in Space season 3. And I might be going to see Ghostbusters Afterlife on Monday after work. So I may not get to Evil of the Daleks until Tuesday at the earliest.
Rick wrote: "Travis wrote: "Mine's supposed to show up before Thanksgiving, but I won't be heartbroken/surprised if it shows up after."It’s arrived! And now I’m not gonna watch it right away, cuz I’m in the m..."
Sounds like you're going to be busy.
Which Lost in space?
The new series. I own the original on disc.
Only watched the first episode of the new one.I need to get back to it.
Want to re-watch the original, but not enough to buy it.
I grew up watching the original series, so it’s always like going back to childhood.
Travis wrote: "Only watched the first episode of the new one.I need to get back to it.
Want to re-watch the original, but not enough to buy it."
I like the series, though even as a kid, the later camp episodes got on my nerves.
Almost ended up writing a LiS series for a fanfic site, but they crashed before I could get anything out there.
Yeah, season 3 is difficult to watch these days. But the first season is pure love. Season two is still watchable, most of the time. But then season 3, oh dear … The Great Vegetable Rebellion. 🙄Oh the horror. I mean, what were they thinking? Seriously! 🤦🏻♂️
My Evil of the Daleks DVD arrived!!Between that and being an episode behind on Flux, I guess I will be spending my recovering from the holiday time watching Doctor Who.
Evil of the Daleks: 5 episodes in and then I needed to get some sleep.Hoping to finish it tonight
Thoughts so far: Like the overlap from the previous story.
The mystery is interesting and the reveal in episode 1 is kind of spoiled by the title, but still well done.
Like the Doctor and Jamie playing detective.
Story is decent, but a tiny bit padded, animation is a bit clunkier than Fury from the Deep.
That scene of cartoon Jamie and the Doctor running is more comedic than action packed.
Lots of fun and looking forward to going to Skaro for the grand finale.
Evil of the Daleks: All done.The Dalek fight is suitably impressive, but the ending felt rushed and at least one death felt like it happened because we didn't have time to do anything else.
I liked the human factored Daleks. Almost wish they'd taken one with them as a companion.
Good story. I can see why it's a big deal in Who-history.
Travis wrote: "Evil of the Daleks: All done.The Dalek fight is suitably impressive, ..."
I enjoyed listening to the audio only version, I can hardly wait to watch it - now I just have to find the time.
Rick wrote: "Travis wrote: "Evil of the Daleks: All done.The Dalek fight is suitably impressive, ..."
I enjoyed listening to the audio only version, I can hardly wait to watch it - now I just have to find the..."
Good story.
Looking forward to the extras.
Looks like there's going to be a reconstruction of the Abominable Snowmen!Amazon doesn't have a release date yet, but they are offering the DVD.
Very exciting.
Travis wrote: "Looks like there's going to be a reconstruction of the Abominable Snowmen!Amazon doesn't have a release date yet, but they are offering the DVD.
Very exciting."
Yeah, they’ve had that up for awhile, along with Wheel in Space and the more recently added Galaxy 4. Sometimes they’ll be available to preorder and then they take them down.
I'm not going to pre-order, as I had a couple pre-orders go into limbo and take months to arrive, just always happy to see any hint of a lost story maybe becoming available.Plus, I love the Yeti.
Doctor Who: The Library of Carsus
Books mentioned in this topic
Blue Box Boy (other topics)Doctor Who: The Queen of Time (other topics)
Doctor Who: The Celestial Toymaker (other topics)
Doctor Who: The Queen of Time (other topics)
Doctor Who: The Celestial Toymaker (other topics)
War Games I always found a little bloated and my off-air copy of Seeds of Death cut off the ending.
Well, after adding some DVDs, I think I'm changing my mind.
The Invasion is great. Tomb of the Cybermen is a nice, tight 4 episodes, even if some of the costuming, sets, and effects (cypermats!) are a bit, well, Who-ish god love 'em. Now on to my DVD of Seeds of Death. After 25 years, I can finally see that ending.
Totally falling in love with classic Who all over again & finding a new respect for this Doctor. Can't wait for Web of Fear on DVD in the States. But some of the bits on the Lost in Time DVD were already whetting my appetite.
I guess to turn this into a discussion: is there an era or particular Dr. Who story you've only come to appreciate down the road a bit, after first not liking it that much?