Doctor Who: The Library of Carsus discussion
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Revisiting Troughton, etc.
message 51:
by
Rick
(new)
Dec 14, 2021 11:15AM
I do have a preorder in for a new release of The Web of Fear with the missing stuff animated. I think that’s only the one episode that’s still lost. But I’m trying to wait to preorder until at least closer to the time of release, maybe just a month of two. I had an order for Wheel in Space that went into limbo before it was finally cancelled altogether. That was frustrating.
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After Abominable snowmen, what Troughton stories are left to reconstruct?
Patrick Troughton (53 lost episodes/14 arcs affected) 30 The Power of the Daleks (6): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (S4) DA, C
31 The Highlanders (4): 1, 2, 3, 4 (S4) C
32 The Underwater Menace (4): 1, 4 (S4) D, C
33 The Moonbase (4)1, 3 (S4) DA, C
34 The Macra Terror (4): 1, 2, 3, 4 (S4) DA, C
35 The Faceless Ones (6): 2, 4, 5, 6 (S4) DA, C
36 The Evil of the Daleks (7): 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (S4) DA, C
38 The Abominable Snowmen (6): 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 (S5) C
39 The Ice Warriors (6): 2, 3 (S5) DA, C
41 The Web of Fear (6): 3 (S5) DA, C
42 Fury From the Deep (6): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (S5) DA, C
43 The Wheel in Space (6): 1, 2, 4, 5 (S5) C
46 The Invasion (8): 1, 4 (S6) DA, C
49 The Space Pirates (6): 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 (S6) C
Story arc number
Story arc title
(#) = number of total episodes in arc
List of episodes from arc lost
(S#) = season of series that arc aired within
D = on DVD or Blu-ray
A = Animated
C = currently audio only on compact disc (unless also listed with D)
The missing episodes for The Underwater Menace have not yet been animated, these are presented with photos instead, at least on the discs that I have.
Here’s the same type of list for Hartnell era, using the same structure & coding William Hartnell (44 lost episodes/12 arcs affected)
04 Marco Polo (7): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (S1) C
08 The Reign of Terror (6): 4, 5 (S1) DA, C
14 The Crusade (4): 2, 4 (S2) D, C
18 Galaxy 4 (4): 1, 2, 4 (S3) C
19 Mission to the Unknown (1): 1 (S3) C
20 The Myth Makers (4): 1, 2, 3, 4 (S3) C
21 The Daleks’ Masterplan (12): 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12 (S3) C
22 The Massacre (of St. Bartholomew’s Eve) (4): 1, 2, 3, 4 (S3) C
24 The Celestial Toymaker (4): 1, 2, 3 (S3) C
26 The Savages (4): 1, 2, 3, 4 (S3) C
28 The Smugglers (4): 1, 2, 3, 4 (S4) C
29 The Tenth Planet (4): 4 (S4) DA, C
The Crusade’s missing episodes are presented on disc using photos.
So, there’s a lot more Hartnell left that needs to be animated.
Rick wrote: "Patrick Troughton (53 lost episodes/14 arcs affected) 30 The Power of the Daleks (6): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (S4) DA, C
31 The Highlanders (4): 1, 2, 3, 4 (S4) C
32 The Underwater Menace (4): 1, 4 (S4..."
Looks like Highlanders and Space Pirates are the only unreconstructed ones.
Rick wrote: "So, there’s a lot more Hartnell left that needs to be animated."There is an amazing fan made remake of 'Mission', done by a film school, using the shooting scripts and some funding/assistance from the BBC.
Think it's still up on youtube and it's pretty cool.
Travis wrote: "Looks like Highlanders and Space Pirates are the only unreconstructed ones."Yeah, and those missing episodes of Underwater Menace.
Now the Hartnell’s are another matter entirely.
Travis wrote: "There is an amazing fan made remake of 'Mission', done by a film school, using the shooting scripts and some funding/assistance from the BBC.Think it's still up on youtube and it's pretty cool."
I’ll have to check it out.
Rick wrote: "Travis wrote: "Looks like Highlanders and Space Pirates are the only unreconstructed ones."Yeah, and those missing episodes of Underwater Menace.
Now the Hartnell’s are another matter entirely."
They did animated reconstructions for Underwater Menace didn't they?
hopefully, galaxy 4 will be the start of a big run of hartnell dvds.
would love to finally get to see the celestial toymaker and the smugglers!
Travis wrote: "They did animated reconstructions for Underwater Menace didn't they?hopefully, galaxy 4 will be the start of a big run of hartnell dvds.
would love to finally get to see the celestial toymaker and the smugglers!”
I only have a version of Underwater Menace with still photos over the audio recordings for two of the episodes. If they’ve done animated versions, I don’t have them.
I want to SEE The Daleks’ Masterplan In all it’s epic glory. And Marco Polo.
I just started listening to Doctor Who: The Queen of Time, which is one of those scripts that was written during the Troughton years of the original show, but never produced. It premise has a lot of similarities with Doctor Who: The Celestial Toymaker.
Rick wrote: "Travis wrote: "They did animated reconstructions for Underwater Menace didn't they?hopefully, galaxy 4 will be the start of a big run of hartnell dvds.
would love to finally get to see the celest..."
Looks like you're right. They didn't animate Underwater Menace, it's tele snaps.
Bummer.
So, there are three Troughtons that need animating.
Glad I didn't buy it then, as I'm not a fan of telesnaps.
Watched Wheel in space that way.
Much rather wait for animation.
There is also a 4th Doctor comic, the Time Witch, that has a very Toymaker/Omega feel to it and some great Dave Gibbons art.
I just finished Doctor Who: The Queen of Time, which not only a lot of similarities with Doctor Who: The Celestial Toymaker, there’s definitely a connection.
Rumor has it that BBC America may be pulling out funding on the reconstructions.So, it's a bit iffy what'll happen post-Abominable Snowmen.
Sad to hear.
Travis wrote: "Rumor has it that BBC America may be pulling out funding on the reconstructions.So, it's a bit iffy what'll happen post-Abominable Snowmen.
Sad to hear."
😳 NOOOOOOOOO! 🤬
Hoping it's just rumor or that somebody else steps in with the cash.Be a shame if they stopped.
Finally started The Evil of the Daleks animated version this morning. It is really good. About half way through. I’m doing the black & white version first.
I prefer the B+W animation myself.Seems to fit better with the older episodes.
I watched an interesting video on YouTube earlier over lunch discussing the idea of remounting the missing episodes potentially, ala the 2019 the University of Central Lancashire version of Mission to the Unknown.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vlsOn6q...
Finished The Evil of the Daleks. Liked it as the surviving audio with narration that I have on CD, but LOVED it in the animated version. Troughton at his best! Hines at his best! It would have been a fitting end to those horrible pepper pots! Brilliant stuff.
Rick wrote: "Finished The Evil of the Daleks. Liked it as the surviving audio with narration that I hav eon CD, but LOVED it in the animated version. Troughton at his best! Hines at his best! It would have been..."It does have a nice epic feel to it.
I really enjoyed the Jamie and Doctor together.
Was nice, for a brief time, to have a bachelor Tardis.
Matthew wrote: "I watched an interesting video on YouTube earlier over lunch discussing the idea of remounting the missing episodes potentially, ala the 2019 the University of Central Lancashire version of Mission..."Interesting, but I don’t get his credentials. Is he just an Uber fan out there making a YouTube channel, or does he have some kind of accreditation as a student/scholar of film/television/media? The supposedly cute little humorous cut-aways (“if you do t like it, just walk away” hair flip) make me think he’s just some fanboy making YouTube flicks for cash.
But in any case, I’m definitely in the use-the-original-audio-with-animation camp. I’ve never been a fan of telescopes, they just seem like a stop gap measure. But they’re better than nothing I suppose. But, for me at least, the animation with original audio feels like a nice compromise to pay homage to the original actors and to keep the missing/lost/destroyed episodes alive. Although I do hope that the surviving actors get somehow compensated for this continued use of their voice & image. If they are not I’ll have to rethink my support of what I would then realize was an incredibly unethical business practice.
Travis wrote: "It does have a nice epic feel to it.I really enjoyed the Jamie and Doctor together.
Was nice, for a brief time, to have a bachelor Tardis."
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Rick wrote: "Travis wrote: "It does have a nice epic feel to it.I really enjoyed the Jamie and Doctor together.
Was nice, for a brief time, to have a bachelor Tardis."
Yep.
Yep.
Yep."
Always a fan of bachelor Tardis.
When I did DW fanfic, if I created a new companion, it was very often a guy, or if I used Who continuity, it would be stuff like 5, Turlough and Kameleon Pre-Planet of fire or 1 and Stephen.
There are so many girl companions ( and I love nearly all of them) but just a guy seemed like a big deal, as it happened so rarely.
Full Circle: Odd, as I liked this one more than I thought I would.I didn't remember being too impressed the first time I watched it, several decades ago, but it was really good.
It's nicely filmed, the Tardis crew all get something to do, the ideas are really interesting ( though you spend a lot of time going 'Am I watching Mutants or Face of evil...?) and Adric is actually a better character than I recall.
There's a nice c chemistry between him and the Tardis crew.
Going back to talking of bachelor Tardis, it's a shame that he and Tom didn't have more time together, as he has a bit of a Jamie vibe to him.
Just if Jamie was from space, instead of Scotland.
Gonna miss Tom, but I've been really enjoying his final season and the shift into 80's Who.
I am an Adric fan. The character wasn’t the best, but he wasn’t the worst by any means. The problem really is the inconsistency with which the character was written. In some episodes he’s written one way and in others he’s completely different. Waterhouse worked with what he was given. The fault I’d say was with the script editor(s) and showrunner for not identifying the problem and taking better steps to smooth things out into a more consistent character. Don’t know how true this is, but the singer from Kagagoogoo, Limahl, was supposedly up for the role of Adric as well. Waterhouse mentions this in his book Blue Box Boy. In case you don’t know, Limahl was the pop singer who sang the theme song for The Neverending Story.
Rick wrote: "I am an Adric fan. The character wasn’t the best, but he wasn’t the worst by any means. The problem really is the inconsistency with which the character was written. In some episodes he’s written o..."Just realized I put my Full Circle review in the Troughton thread.
That's what happens when I post late at night.
Oh well.
Yeah, I agree, Adric is not the worst companion. I'd rate him somewhere in the middle.
I think he was later let down by the writing.
Crowded Tardis were rare and I think some writers didn't know what to do with everyone.
True. But it was more than that. The initial write up for Adric was that he was a “Artful Dodger” type of scamp. And he was good with maths. The genius stuff came later and the “Artful Dodger” stuff got dropped pretty quickly. But as these changes occurred, no one informed Waterhouse or any of the writers, so it was just rather a mess in constant flux and change. Writers just kept doing what they wanted and directors or showrunners never said anything specific to nail the character down. So ends up being inadvertently, and weirdly, multidimensional - but does any of it come across in screen (unless your looking for it). I do so love the episode where Adric is held captive by the Master and strung up and spread-eagle with what appears to be a bit of … shall we say … unexplained excitement (those E-Space jammies are pretty thin material). 😹 Hilarious!
Travis wrote: "Just realized I put my Full Circle review in the Troughton thread.That's what happens when I post late at night...."All part of the “bachelor TARDIS” discussion evolving from the Doctor-Jamie relationship.
Rick wrote: "True. But it was more than that. The initial write up for Adric was that he was a “Artful Dodger” type of scamp. And he was good with maths. The genius stuff came later and the “Artful Dodger” stuf..."Yeah, there seemed to be no solid idea of his characterization, and when you throw that at a young unexperienced actor, it's bound to give you uneven results.
Plus, too many writers seemed to like writing Tegan more. It seemed like the writing staff could only handle writing two companions.
Any story where Adric gets to do something, than Nyssa is gets a raw deal.
Like i said, I like the vibe of him as kind of space Jamie, and while he's easy to pick on, I never disliked him as a companion.
My copy of the updated Web of Fear is supposedly arriving tomorrow.
Rick wrote: "My copy of the updated Web of Fear is supposedly arriving tomorrow."Yep. It arrived! Although Amazon delivered it to the wrong address. 🤦🏻♂️ Stupid worthless Amazon. And now they’re advertising their new method of delivery! You pick it up at a store! You know, an empty store front for a shoppe that they drove out of business. How cool is that! Oh, but pay us money for Prime Delivery too! 🤬 Frelling feckless greed mongers.
Not to worry. My neighbor moved it to my doorway. 😻
Rick wrote: "Rick wrote: "My copy of the updated Web of Fear is supposedly arriving tomorrow."Yep. It arrived! Although Amazon delivered it to the wrong address. 🤦🏻♂️ Stupid worthless Amazon. And now they’re..."
Don't bottle that stuff up. You'll get ulcers.
Tell us how you really feel.
😁
Travis wrote: "Don't bottle that stuff up. You'll get ulcers.Tell us how you really feel. 😁"
I can’t use that kind of language here. And ulcers are the least of my worries. 😹
Started my rewatch of the Jon Pertwee episodes yesterday. Spearhead From Space is so entertaining in so many ways. Things I like: + Pertwee’s recovery in first episode. Clearly this is what Davies was paying homage to with The Christmas Invasion when Tennant started. The difference being that with Pertwee, almost everything was new, Doctor, setting, companion, supporting characters, etc, while with Tennant, it was just the Doctor.
+ Dr. Shaw is constantly annoyed with how she’s treated by the Brigadier, yet she finds the Doctor enormously charming and warms up to him immediately. But then the Doctor does have that effect on people in any incarnation.
+ The Brigadier accepts the Doctor at face value (joke intended) pretty quickly. I love that their friendship was able to grow from an earlier episode and that there is a lot of mutual admiration, even when one of them does something the other finds to be absolutely deplorable.
+ I love how even though Dr. Shaw doesn’t believe the Doctor for a second, she still steals the key to the TARDIS from the Brigadier for him. If for no other reason than to see how he’ll keep spinning his absurd and fanciful tales. She is clearly an underrated companion, and I love how the actor creates nuance for the character with very small expressions that were undoubtedly not in the script.
+ Similar to the first two Doctor’s eras, this one is building as it goes and finding its feet in this first (seventh) season. But this time it’s not so much the concept of the Doctor, now it’s UNIT that is being developed while we watch episodes unfold.
Things that aren’t so good:
- They way the character of Dr. Shaw is so disrespected by the writers. Shameful. And it only gets worse.
- That they were clearly trying to capitalize on the interest from the 1960s in espionage and secret service TV shows. It’s almost cringe-worthy how fannish the new direction is to shows like the Avengers, the Prisoner, Danger Man (aka Secret Agent), the Man From UNCLE, etc. I wished they had really embraced the differences of UNIT instead of trying to mimic other shows (this is one of the reasons I like the new take on UNIT in the new series more).
- the Autons. Yeah, I’ve always thought they weren’t really developed well. The scene when the shop window dummies start moving is good, but the rest? Meh.
I gained a new appreciation for Pertwee after watching his era in order.I always thought he was a good Doctor, but never my favorite. He gained some points and I was actually pretty sad when I got to 'Planet of Spiders'.
He got to hang out with the Brig and had the best Master.
Like the build up of UNIT.
Shame they never got a spin off: either a TV show or novels would have been nice.
Only not good things:
Liz should have had a longer run. Liked her.
Pertwee never had a Cyberman episode.
Travis wrote: "I gained a new appreciation for Pertwee after watching his era in order.I always thought he was a good Doctor, but never my favorite. He gained some points and I was actually pretty sad when I got..."
Agreement tactless the board.
Although, I’ve got to add that by the time we get to Sarah Jane, I’m a bit tired of the growing anti-feminism that grows in the series. It gets worse under Baker, peaks with Leela in a lot of ways and is still present until we get Ace. They’re all interesting companions that have some good moments, but jeez writers, directors, producers - these women are people, let them be people please!
In the last couple weeks I’ve gotten through both Doctor Who and the Silurians and Ambassadors of Death. I’ve seen Silurians more times than I can remember, but I’ve only seen Ambassadors of Death once before, I’d forgotten how much I enjoyed that one.
Rick wrote: "In the last couple weeks I’ve gotten through both Doctor Who and the Silurians and Ambassadors of Death. I’ve seen Silurians more times than I can remember, but I’ve only seen Ambassadors of Death ..."Ambassadors is one of those stories I feel like I should like more than I do.
Lots of good elements, and it feels like an Avengers episode with aliens, but the couple times I've seen it were a slog.
Course you could trim an episode off it, if you stopped doing the Liz is kidnapped/Liz almost escapes dance.
All I have left of Tom's era is Shada and Logopolis and I'm kind of dragging my feet.Excited to get to the 5th Doctor's era ( the original cute one, as my wife refers to him) but 2 more stories and then there's no more Tom...!
I’m almost done with Inferno, two more episodes and Liz is gone. 😿
Rick wrote: "I’m almost done with Inferno, two more episodes and Liz is gone. 😿"My dream, if I ever go ahead with my grand Who fanfic project, when I get to #3 my notes include alot of Liz stuff: a leaving story, a trip in the Tardis and a story where she and Jo are together with the Doctor.
I like Liz and feel she is underapreciated and deserves more attention.
Travis wrote: "… I like Liz and feel she is underapreciated and deserves more attention."I agree.
Rick wrote: "Travis wrote: "… I like Liz and feel she is underapreciated and deserves more attention."I agree."
There are companions we love and then there are companions, who were good, but get our attention because they were underused or just deserve more or better.
Finished Inferno last night. Better than I’d remembered it being. Started Terror of the Autons today. Jo Grant, Mike Yates and the Master!
Just finished The Mind of Evil. I do think it was better this time around than I seemed to remember it being. Great chemistry between Pertwee and Delgado. Nice interplay between the members of UNIT that we see. Jo isn’t stuck being just a damsel in distress, she even saves the Doctor at one point. Yes there is some cultural stereotypes on full display, but I give them credit for trying to expand the dimensions of those stereotypes at that time (it gets much worse in a couple years). The Master’s scheme and plan doesn’t seem quite so daft as it did the first time I watched, although maybe I’m just not expecting as much now that I know how it all plays out. And there’s some wonderful use of location shoots and not a quarry in sight.
Mind is one of the few Pertwee's I'd never seen before a couple years ago.I own the Target book, but had little memory of the story.
I really liked it.
Good creepy monster, decent setting, good use of the cast.
The Claws of Axos: This one had some good potential, but it didn’t hold up quite as well as I’d remembered it being. Nothing particularly bad, just generally a lack of the intangible charm that classic Doctor Who usually engenders. The Axons probably deserve a revamp in the new series.
Rick wrote: "The Claws of Axos: This one had some good potential, but it didn’t hold up quite as well as I’d remembered it being. Nothing particularly bad, just generally a lack of the intangible charm that cla..."Big fan of Axos.
Like the odd vibe of it, love how they use it to bring the Master back and his interactions with the Doctor.
The scene where the Master works on the Doctor's Tardis and is so bothered by how the Doctor has slapped together repairs is one of my favorite Delgado moments.
Like how big and public the story tries to be.
Feels like something you'd see on UFO.
I know AXos comes back in BF, but it would be cool to see them in the TV show.
Doctor Who: The Library of Carsus
Books mentioned in this topic
Blue Box Boy (other topics)Doctor Who: The Queen of Time (other topics)
Doctor Who: The Celestial Toymaker (other topics)
Doctor Who: The Queen of Time (other topics)
Doctor Who: The Celestial Toymaker (other topics)
