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Roach, Mary - Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers - Start Date February 2, 2014 [February 2014 Adult Anything Goes BOM]
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CHAPTER BREAKDOWN
Date Chapters PPDQs
February 02 Intro & Chpts.1&2 Karen
February 03 Chapters 3&4 Karen
February 04 Chapters 5&6 Karen
February 05 Chapters 7&8 Karen
February 06 Chapters 9&10 Turtlecollector
February 07 Chapters 11&12 Turtlecollector
Breakdown is based on the audio version of the book which is why I have only provided chapter numbers, but it should equate to about 50 pages per day based on percentages.
Mod
Yeah! Can't wait to read this :)
I'm going to try this out... kind of scary! Haha.
I read this book a few months ago and loved it. I was constantly in a mix of feeling fascinated and grossed out at the same time through most of it.
I loved this book. Maybe I will read it with you all :)
I read this a few years ago, one of the most interesting books I have read. I'm looking forward to reading it again.
Wow, this sounds like a fun read. I think I'm in for this one.
Got it on audio from the library.
I'm not sure if I will reread it, but I enjoyed it and plan to participate in this discussion. I have herother books on my TBR now.
I am going to try to join in on this one. I have had this book on my bookshelf for a long time now!
Mod
I only have the audiobook version, but I think the breakdown should work out ok.
We'd love some volunteers to write discussion questions for this one. Just let me know if you can take any day(s)
Thanks!
Karen
I can write some questions, but it will have to be after the 4th. I am out of town 2nd-4th and will be able to make short comments, but not anything extensive.
I'll join in if I can get a copy from my library in time. This one sounds interesting!
Mod
Thanks Turtlecollector. I'll put you down for the last 2 days (Feb 6 and 7). If that doesn't work just let me know. Thanks :)
~Karen
Moderators of Nothing but Reading Challenges (All the Mods) wrote: "Turtlecollector wrote: "I can write some questions, but it will have to be after the 4th. I am out of town 2nd-4th and will be able to make short comments, but not anything extensive."Thanks Tur..."
That should be fine.
Mod
I'm in, although I will be starting a little late as I have my finals for the next two weeks. Later is definitely time for pleasure reading!
Apparently moving messed with the calendar in my head because I totally thought this started yesterday and I was late to come answer questions. Guess I started early :-P
I'd love to join in I've been wanting to read this for some time now!
Have my copy and I can't wait to start reading! I might be a little late for discussion though due to work schedule this weekend.
*shudders* I highly recommend not googling "cadaver feet" if you're curious about if the feet on the cover are too pink to be dead..... ewwww
Mod
LOL I HAD to once you said not to.... ewww there went my lunch ;)
Ashley wrote: "LOL I HAD to once you said not to.... ewww there went my lunch ;)"Ha. I knew someone would. I imagine this book will have a lot of stuff that you're not quite sure if you want to look up more information on.
Mod
Introduction and Chapters 1&2
Comments and questions
~~ Disclaimer: I am a BIG wuss. You may cope with this book better than me! :D ~~
1.This is one of the more unique BOMs we have had! Why have you decided to read this book?
2.The subject of death and cadavers is a sensitive one and taboo in many cultures. In the introduction the author states “death makes us helplessly polite.” I could also imagine Roach being criticized by some for writing on this topic. Your thoughts?
3. I was surprised when Roach referred to her mother's body as “my mother's cadaver” and “it”. Is that her coping mechanism?
4. So I felt a bit lulled into a sense of security with the Introduction and then we go straight into a room of sawn off heads in roasting pans! Did anyone else get that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach? As the chapter went on it became easier to cope with the subject matter.
5. This section had me thinking about if I would donate my body and why I haven't really wondered about it before. Have you?
6. There were so many surprising parts to this section I had never even considered before (like how today's students learn to perform pap smears!). I loved the description of the memorial service for the cadavers. I think it is so important for the students to remember these were people. Did you like the history provided? Are there any parts of these chapters that really stuck out to you?
I'm so excited to finally be participating in a book of the month read!!
Introduction and Chapters 1&2Comments and questions
1.This is one of the more unique BOMs we have had! Why have you decided to read this book?
I have had this book on my bookshelf for awhile now! Not even sure where/how I had heard of it. But I am so happy to be finally reading it.
2.The subject of death and cadavers is a sensitive one and taboo in many cultures. In the introduction the author states “death makes us helplessly polite.” I could also imagine Roach being criticized by some for writing on this topic. Your thoughts?
I agree that the subject allows for Roach to be criticized. I don't think the subject of death is as sensitive as the cadavers part is.
3. I was surprised when Roach referred to her mother's body as “my mother's cadaver” and “it”. Is that her coping mechanism?
It seems like it - that she can't accept the idea of her mother being dead.
4. So I felt a bit lulled into a sense of security with the Introduction and then we go straight into a room of sawn off heads in roasting pans! Did anyone else get that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach? As the chapter went on it became easier to cope with the subject matter.
I thought that this chapter was well written in the fact that I didn't get grossed out. As squeamish as I am about blood and guts, I wasn't grossed out while reading. Roach made a good point of how important it is for physicians to get hands-on practice. I actually was horrified at the idea of students learning/getting their first hands-on experience during actual surgeries!!
5. This section had me thinking about if I would donate my body and why I haven't really wondered about it before. Have you?
I agree, that I had never thought about it before. I didn't realize how in need schools are of cadavers. It's not something that you really see advertised. "Wanted: human cadavers!"
6. There were so many surprising parts to this section I had never even considered before (like how today's students learn to perform pap smears!). I loved the description of the memorial service for the cadavers. I think it is so important for the students to remember these were people. Did you like the history provided? Are there any parts of these chapters that really stuck out to you?
I have to say that chapter 2 kinda bored me to tears. I wasn't really interested in the history of cadaver stealing and historical cultural misunderstandings. I did find it touching that the students have the memorial services for the cadavers though.
Nancy wrote: "I did find it touching that the students have the memorial services for the cadavers though. "Me too, I got a little teary eyed.
Mod
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@Nancy
1. It is funny how that happens sometimes. I had never heard of it and then at the same time it was nominated as BOM someone else recommended it to me!
2. Agreed
4. Yes, that was a *very* good point!!
5. lol!!
6. Funny - I knew the history, but I still found it interesting. I guess different parts of this book will appeal to different people ;)
The memorial service was lovely
@ Nancy#4. Yeah, that would definitely NOT be a good idea.
#5. LOL!
Introduction and Chapters 1&21.This is one of the more unique BOMs we have had! Why have you decided to read this book?
I hadn't heard of it until it was nominated here. I usually read fiction, but thought it might be interesting to try.
2.The subject of death and cadavers is a sensitive one and taboo in many cultures. In the introduction the author states “death makes us helplessly polite.” I could also imagine Roach being criticized by some for writing on this topic. Your thoughts?
Many people don't like to face their own mortality, and don't like to think about death.
3. I was surprised when Roach referred to her mother's body as “my mother's cadaver” and “it”. Is that her coping mechanism?
It's easier to deal with a dead body by dehumanizing it. She is discussing her mother in the same way that she discussed all the other dead people she refered to.
4. So I felt a bit lulled into a sense of security with the Introduction and then we go straight into a room of sawn off heads in roasting pans! Did anyone else get that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach? As the chapter went on it became easier to cope with the subject matter.
I kept getting flashbacks to the human disection anatomy classes I did in uni about 18 years ago when studying Physiotherapy (dropped out before I finished). We worked in small groups of 5 or so per cadaver. Ours were embalmbed, so the overwhelming stench of formaldehyde always filled the room. We started with an intact body, but partway through the term the heads disapeared, for the med students to work on.
5. This section had me thinking about if I would donate my body and why I haven't really wondered about it before. Have you?
When I was at uni I always though I'd return the favour and donate my body, but I never found out how. I think I'd prefer to donate my organs first to save the living who are waiting for someone compatible to die so they can live. Then I'd be happy to be donated to science for any purpose.
6. There were so many surprising parts to this section I had never even considered before (like how today's students learn to perform pap smears!). I loved the description of the memorial service for the cadavers. I think it is so important for the students to remember these were people. Did you like the history provided? Are there any parts of these chapters that really stuck out to you?
I wish we had given a memorial service for our cadavers, that was such a lovely thing. We only put the bits into a bucket to be kept with the body so it caould all be cremated together for a burial when we were finished. I always wondered how families coped, waiting the best part of a year to get their loved ones back to they could bury them.
I'm glad we live in the age of anaesthetic! Would hate to turn my face to the surgeon and avert my eyes to cope.
@ Renee#3 - I agree, but I also thing she really didn't see her mother's cadaver as her mother any more. That her mother had moved on.
#6 - Yes, I really liked that they did this. And "really!" to your last line.
Introduction and Chapters 1&2Comments and questions
1.This is one of the more unique BOMs we have had! Why have you decided to read this book?
Because this is one of the more unique BOMs. Also because I have a professional interest in this book. When I started out as a lab tech, I worked in a pathology lab (I did not work on cadavers, only tissue samples). Nonfiction books on a scientific/medical subject usually have my interest.
2.The subject of death and cadavers is a sensitive one and taboo in many cultures. In the introduction the author states “death makes us helplessly polite.” I could also imagine Roach being criticized by some for writing on this topic. Your thoughts?
I can definitely imagine being criticized for writing about this topic. People usually don’t like to be confronted with their own mortality.
3. I was surprised when Roach referred to her mother's body as “my mother's cadaver” and “it”. Is that her coping mechanism?
Maybe, it could also be the way she looks at things, she described it as not being her mother, that her mother was already gone and that the body was just a body.
4. So I felt a bit lulled into a sense of security with the Introduction and then we go straight into a room of sawn off heads in roasting pans! Did anyone else get that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach? As the chapter went on it became easier to cope with the subject matter.
No sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I only wondered why just the heads, but that was explained later in the chapter. I also thought it is good to use cadavers to teach surgical procedures.
5. This section had me thinking about if I would donate my body and why I haven't really wondered about it before. Have you?
Yes I have. In the Netherlands you get a form to fill out if you want to be an organ donor or not. One of the questions on that form is if you want to also donate your body to science. After thinking long and hard, I ticked the box that I do not want to donate my body for science.
6. There were so many surprising parts to this section I had never even considered before (like how today's students learn to perform pap smears!). I loved the description of the memorial service for the cadavers. I think it is so important for the students to remember these were people. Did you like the history provided? Are there any parts of these chapters that really stuck out to you?
For me the memorial service stuck out, the history part of the second section I more or less knew. From the first section the part where they mention that donor skin can be used for wrinkle fillers made want to recheck the donor form I filled out years ago and un tick the box that I want to donate skin when I’m dead.
@ Imke#2 - Very true.
#5 - Here in the U.S., they ask about organ donation when you get your driver's license, but not about your whole body. Well... at least not in California.
#6 - Yes, I knew a lot of the historical stuff,too. Must of learned it for my pre-nursing classes.
1.This is one of the more unique BOMs we have had! Why have you decided to read this book? Growing up I was very interested in anything CSI, love murder mystery books, and read a few on body farms. I always had this book on my list never got around to it.
2.The subject of death and cadavers is a sensitive one and taboo in many cultures. In the introduction the author states “death makes us helplessly polite.” I could also imagine Roach being criticized by some for writing on this topic. Your thoughts?
I was extremely nervous to read this book since I tend to be a little more queasy after my brother's passing but I have been pleasantly surprised by Roach and her writing that makes the reader comfortable. I think the humor that she has definitely helps, but I like how she address objectivity as well.
3. I was surprised when Roach referred to her mother's body as “my mother's cadaver” and “it”. Is that her coping mechanism?
Yes, I believe so. I hadn't thought of it in this exact way before, but I have to agree. When the life leaves a person they aren't there anymore, just a shell.
4. So I felt a bit lulled into a sense of security with the Introduction and then we go straight into a room of sawn off heads in roasting pans! Did anyone else get that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach? As the chapter went on it became easier to cope with the subject matter.
I really enjoyed the introduction, and it gave me a sense of security as well. Yes, the sawn off heads was a quick transition... but I used the episode of Nip/Tuck where they do the exact same thing, but the doctor hallucinates and the head talks to him, to help me out with that chapter.
5. This section had me thinking about if I would donate my body and why I haven't really wondered about it before. Have you?
I haven't wondered about it before, and was pretty set on the fact that I didn't want to be cut into pieces. But the way she has addressed those issues really makes me rethink my decision on donating my own body!
6. There were so many surprising parts to this section I had never even considered before (like how today's students learn to perform pap smears!). I loved the description of the memorial service for the cadavers. I think it is so important for the students to remember these were people. Did you like the history provided? Are there any parts of these chapters that really stuck out to you?
No joke, angel wings have been earn for the professional pap smear lady, no thanks! I did enjoy the memorial service for the cadavers. I had many friends that had to take anatomy and phys. during college and had to work with cadaver/parts. I didn't have to with elementary education, obviously, so I often wondered how respectful college students were to the cadavers. The donation part really stuck out to me because my great-uncle donated his body to science and it took them 2.5 years to fully use his body and send back the rest in cremation, which I thought was crazy! May be morbid, but I actually thought maybe he finally got that nose job. It was also interesting to read about the body snatching. Read books about it before, but never that people were purposely killing people to earn money from it.
@Nancy, totally agree with what you said about it being important for physicians to get hands-on practice! I was horrified as well and would never want to be under the knife of someone that has never done the procedure!
@ Audra#3 - Yup. A temporary home.
#6 - "Angel wings" - I like it.
Renee wrote: " waiting the best part of a year to get their loved ones back to they could bury them."I did not even think about if the bodies went back to their loved ones. That would be a hard and long wait.
1. I've had this on my TBR list for a while, so I was happy to have the motivation to read it. 2. I can see this book be looked down upon as slightly creepy, at least. It seems like you shouldn't be interested in death or anything like it unless you want to be thought of as morbid or gross.
3. I think seeing the body as ONLY a body and as something that belonged to the dead like a purse or car is a nicer way to think about death. In the opposite way, I found it odd that the students were giving their cadavers life by forming emotional attachments to the body or trying to console them.
5. I took an anatomy class where we used cadavers. The ones we had had been embalmed for a while, so they almost didn't look human anymore. Most of their skin and muscles had turned a light brown color, and the skin was wrinkled and pruny from the formaldehyde.
The weirdest part of that experience was seeing the hair that was still on the body because that was one of the aspects of those bodies that still looked really human.
6. I think it's important to remember to respect the cadavers (and that's something that is echoed in any anatomy class whether you're working with human or animal bodies). Treating the body with dignity is important, though I think viewing the body as still having emotions or being able to be consoled is more of a coping mechanism for the dissector.
Amy wrote: "The weirdest part of that experience was seeing the hair that was still on the body because that was one of the aspects of those bodies that still looked really human. "That is weird.
1.This is one of the more unique BOMs we have had! Why have you decided to read this book?Since it was published, something about this book piqued my curiosity. This was just a great excuse to give into that curiosity and read it. I also like the fact that it's well out of my box of books I would usually read.
2.The subject of death and cadavers is a sensitive one and taboo in many cultures. In the introduction the author states “death makes us helplessly polite.” I could also imagine Roach being criticized by some for writing on this topic. Your thoughts?
I think that death being seen as taboo is in the same league as people being so easily offended in today's culture. So sure, someone can criticize or take offense to Roach's approach on the subject. But at the same time, people can criticize anyone for having any opinion differing from the norm these days.
3. I was surprised when Roach referred to her mother's body as “my mother's cadaver” and “it”. Is that her coping mechanism?
I think she realizes that her mom, as in her personality, her thoughts, and her soul have all moved on from the body they once embodied. Therefore, Roach has elected to reference her mother's body as the skeleton of what once was her mother. To be honest, I saw it as a very strong showing of faith on Roach's part. I see it as a representation of strength for her to be able to differentiate her mother from her mother's body.
4. So I felt a bit lulled into a sense of security with the Introduction and then we go straight into a room of sawn off heads in roasting pans! Did anyone else get that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach? As the chapter went on it became easier to cope with the subject matter.
To be honest, when I was in the store considering purchasing this book, I immediately started out by reading the first chapter and skipped the intro. So I didn't get a sick feeling about something that I knew was coming before I read the introduction.
5. This section had me thinking about if I would donate my body and why I haven't really wondered about it before. Have you?
I am listed as an organ donor on my license, since I signed up to be one. I have thought about this subject before for when I die and I would much rather donate my body parts to science than have my body laying in the ground rotting away.
6. There were so many surprising parts to this section I had never even considered before (like how today's students learn to perform pap smears!). I loved the description of the memorial service for the cadavers. I think it is so important for the students to remember these were people. Did you like the history provided? Are there any parts of these chapters that really stuck out to you?
Honestly, I loved reading about the history of dissection. It's amazing how far medical schools have come since then. I really enjoyed reading about the murders of boarders in the house of Hare and Burke and how they were brought to justice. I don't know why, but the concept of to what extent people are willing to go to make money interests me a lot.
Ashley wrote: "It's amazing how far medical schools have come since then."So true.
"Amy wrote: "The weirdest part of that experience was seeing the hair that was still on the body because that was one of the aspects of those bodies that still looked really human." That was something I noticed about my brother. Although he was extremely cold, the hair on his hands made it feel like it was still him there.
@ Zonnah#2 - Very good point.
@ Amy#6 - As an ICU nurse who has done her share of postmortem care for over 25 years, I talked to to the corpses. Of course, unless I was helping a co-worker, they had been my patient. Who knows if their spirit is still lingering in the room? **shrugs** And, it was probably for my benefit, too.
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
Gulp: Adventures on the Alimentary Canal (other topics)Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex (other topics)
Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void (other topics)
Unwind (other topics)
UnSouled (other topics)
Be prepared for spoilers!
Synopsis:
An oddly compelling, often hilarious exploration of the strange lives of our bodies postmortem.
For 2,000 years, cadavers---some willingly, some unwittingly---have been involved in science's boldest strides and weirdest undertakings. They've tested France's first guillotines, ridden the NASA Space Shuttle, been crucified in a Parisian laboratory to test the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin, and helped solve the mystery of TWA Flight 800. For every new surgical procedure---from heart transplants to gender reassignment surgery---cadavers have been there alongside surgeons, making history in their quiet way.
In this fascinating, ennobling account, Mary Roach visits the good deeds of cadavers over the centuries---from the anatomy labs and human-sourced pharmacies of medieval and nineteenth-century Europe to a human decay research facility in Tennessee, to a plastic surgery practice lab, to a Scandinavian funeral directors' conference on human composting. In her droll, inimitable voice, Roach tells the engrossing story of our bodies when we are no longer with them