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Roach, Mary - Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers - Start Date February 2, 2014 [February 2014 Adult Anything Goes BOM]
Mod
Comments and questions
18. Roach explores the concept of "when" is someone dead and the soul has gone. Were you surprised that the heart can keep beating on its own for a minute or two outside of the body? Do you agree with the current belief that death occurs when there is no more brain activity?
19. Thoughts on the experiment with cheek cells "feeling" pain when separated from the body?
20. A lot of this section reminded me of the Unwind books (highly recommended btw!) and the idea that organ donation can also transfer consciousness. According to neuropsychologist Paul Pearsall, over 150 anecdotal cases have been documented. You can freak yourself out with some cases here: www.paulpearsall.com/info/press/index...
This website is referenced in (UnSouled)
21. We are getting into the home stretch now. What are your thoughts on the book so far? Are you still finding it enjoyable/fascinating/interesting?
Chapters 5&6Comments and questions
12.Dennis Shanahansaid the hardest thing about examining Flight 800 was that most of the bodies were intact.
"Intactness bothers me much more than the lack of it."
Do you agree this would be harder?
Emotionally harder to deal with intactness.
13. The explanation of how regulators put a price to a human life when determining cost/benefit analysis of safety features was sobering. Your thoughts?
But I guess we do it ourselves too. I didn't buy the top of the range car with the absolute best safety features, I bought the one I could afford that met the standards and was good enough. If aircraft met those superiour safety measures, I could no longer afford to fly anywhere as the costs would pass on to the consumer.
14. What do you make of the theory that our reactions to being shot are psychological rather than immediately physiological?
Depending on exactly where you were hit. I think it would have a huge "shock" and psycological element.
15. So where cadavers are not available, or where a country doesn't allow them for ballistics research, human tissue simulant is used. Do you think there is benefit in using cadavers when an alternative is available? Has your opinion changed while reading the book?
More affordable to use cadavers and some places seemed to have an excess. I think a synthetic alternative would be better for consistancy and ability to repeat the results and that cadavers would need to be used to test synthetic initial production to ensure results would be comparible.
16. Should family members know what happens to their loved ones cadaver? Would you like to know and have veto?
I would want the deceased to have what they wanted. I'd like to know general information but not specific details.
17. The research into the Shroud of Turin was interesting. Especially all the volunteers for crucifixion! Did that surprise you?
I was surprised at how many people volunteered for crucifixion. Jesus was up there for more than 45 minutes though, so not sure if they would have had more trouble breathing with a bit more time. I'd also heard alot of the theories about how crucifixion worked. From what i've heard, many people didn't die from the crucifixion, but from the sword stabbed through their side "just to make sure" when they were taken down.
Kelly wrote: "see if they'd come up with a way to test it that didn't get everyone fired :)"lol :)
Renee wrote: "But I guess we do it ourselves too. I didn't buy the top of the range car with the absolute best safety features, I bought the one I could afford that met the standards and was good enough. If aircraft met those superiour safety measures, I could no longer afford to fly anywhere as the costs would pass on to the consumer. "I do have to say that the expensive car commercials that show the cars auto stopping with the teen drivers make me so happy since I assume that stuff will be cheap enough to be standard by the time my 2 year old learns to drive :) So I do appreciate when people buy the top of the line stuff allowing it to get cheaper.
Mod
13. Fair point. air travel has gotten a lot more accessible in the last decade or so
17. yes I remember hearing that too
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@Zonnah
I agree it has slowed down for me too
Chapters 5&6Comments and questions
12.Dennis Shanahansaid the hardest thing about examining Flight 800 was that most of the bodies were intact.
"Intactness bothers me much more than the lack of it."
Do you agree this would be harder?
Yes I agree.
13. The explanation of how regulators put a price to a human life when determining cost/benefit analysis of safety features was sobering. Your thoughts?
Yes it was sobering, but I can understand. This is not only the case with safety features in airplanes or cars, but also with novel medication, especially for rare diseases, the cost/benefit calculations are made.
14. What do you make of the theory that our reactions to being shot are psychological rather than immediately physiological?
Having never been shot I don’t know. I think there is a lot to the theory that the reactions are more psychological, the example given of the tribal warriors that kept going after being shot multiple times illustrated that nicely.
15. So where cadavers are not available, or where a country doesn't allow them for ballistics research, human tissue simulant is used. Do you think there is benefit in using cadavers when an alternative is available? Has your opinion changed while reading the book?
I think if there is an alternative which gives you the same/similar results as a cadaver would go with the alternative. But I don’t think you can always rely on using alternatives. I don’t think my opinion has changed.
16. Should family members know what happens to their loved ones cadaver? Would you like to know and have veto?
To a certain extent, I think it’s good to say in what way their loved one helped but it should be kept general and do not give to many details about the specific experiment that was performed. And maybe explain how their donation might help people in the future. I don’t think I would want to know and have veto, it’s an incredibly difficult decision to make and I admire people who have made that decision for their loved ones.
17. The research into the Shroud of Turin was interesting. Especially all the volunteers for crucifixion! Did that surprise you?
This is in the next section and I will answer with the next set of questions.
Chapters 7&8Comments and questions
18. Roach explores the concept of "when" is someone dead and the soul has gone. Were you surprised that the heart can keep beating on its own for a minute or two outside of the body? Do you agree with the current belief that death occurs when there is no more brain activity?
I accept brain death as point of death. I'm pro organ donation and definately don't see the doctors as murderers. I did know that the heart has it's own source of electrical stimuls to make it pump. That's what pace makers are put in to replace. I liked the description of how vigourously the heart moves when it is pumping.
19. Thoughts on the experiment with cheek cells "feeling" pain when separated from the body?
Not sure about this one, but then there is so much about the world that we don't really understand.
20. A lot of this section reminded me of the Unwind books (highly recommended btw!) and the idea that organ donation can also transfer consciousness. According to neuropsychologist Paul Pearsall, over 150 anecdotal cases have been documented. You can freak yourself out with some cases here: www.paulpearsall.com/info/press/index...
This website is referenced in (UnSouled)
21. We are getting into the home stretch now. What are your thoughts on the book so far? Are you still finding it enjoyable/fascinating/interesting?
Not the kind of book I can sit down and read in all one go. I've been breaking it up by reading a couple of other books too. It's not dry like a text book, more enjoyable to read, and I do like her humourous observations.
. Were you surprised to learn how cadavers are used for forensic science? I have seen documentaries about the University of Tennessee's "anthropology research facility" and I remember they often receive more body donations than they can use. If you are interested in finding out more about their work here is the link: http://fac.utk.edu/8. I was eating my lunch while listening to the part about purification of bodies. Bad idea!! Will you ever eat rice krispies and chicken soup again without thinking of that passage?!
It is so funny because I am an ER nurse and on our lunch breaks at work, while we are eating, we will have all kinds of gross talk. But when I was in my first trimester I couldn't even handle the smells at work, but I have to say overall I think us nurses have pretty tough stomaches
9. The author says the smell of corpses is"dense and cloying, sweet but not flower-sweet. Halfway between rotting fruit and rotting meat." what do you think of her descriptions? Are they important to satisfy our curiosity? Does it help to make a non fiction book more accessible?
I remember when my mother passed at home, and family was able to view her body, but the smell, after awhile, that starts to leak from the corpse. It is a very distinct smell - but I have smelled worse things - like trench foot and GI bleed poo and infected wounds - the worst. Also cadavers that have been treated with formaldehyde or whatever preservative has a distinct not quite so pleasant smell - the smell of the cadaver lab for human anatomy.
10. I was really interested in the description and history of embalming which explained why it is popular in North America. Over the years I have seen American TV/Movies with "open caskets" and references to embalming (e.g. Six Feet Under!), but it is not very common here in Australia. Your thoughts on this passage?
I went to my first open casket funeral this past year when my brother in law died suddenly in his sleep at the age of 35. It was strange viewing the body, the lifeless form that had just two weeks ago been over at the house talking and playing with his niece and visiting and moving and breathing alive, now laying lifeless before me. Really strange.
11. I had not considered cadavers would be used as crash test dummies, but it makes perfect sense! I was disturbed by the thought of child cadavers and understand why they are not often used despite the "logical argument". Comments?
I don't know. A dead body is simply dead after all, but dealing with losing children and the young dead I think is a lot more troubling for people, probably more related to the emotion of what is stirred up from the thought of losing someone so young more than the dead body itself. I think it becomes even harder to separate the emotions from the corpse.
Chapters 7&8Comments and questions
18. Roach explores the concept of "when" is someone dead and the soul has gone. Were you surprised that the heart can keep beating on its own for a minute or two outside of the body? Do you agree with the current belief that death occurs when there is no more brain activity?
I was surprised that the heart can keep beating outside the body, but I've learned a lot from reading this that I didn't know before! Yes, I agree that death occurs when there is no more brain activity. You're not really living if you're just a shell of organs.
19. Thoughts on the experiment with cheek cells "feeling" pain when separated from the body?
Skimmed over this part.....
20. A lot of this section reminded me of the Unwind books (highly recommended btw!) and the idea that organ donation can also transfer consciousness. According to neuropsychologist Paul Pearsall, over 150 anecdotal cases have been documented. You can freak yourself out with some cases here: www.paulpearsall.com/info/press/index...
This website is referenced in (UnSouled)
OMG...I'm actually reading Unsouled right now along with this book. As I was reading the chapter in here, I was thinking that this is addressed in Unsouled!
21. We are getting into the home stretch now. What are your thoughts on the book so far? Are you still finding it enjoyable/fascinating/interesting?
I find this book to be interesting in parts but also a little too detailed/boring in other parts. I'm learning a lot and am glad that I finally had a reason to read this book!
Chapters 7&8Comments and questions
17. The research into the Shroud of Turin was interesting. Especially all the volunteers for crucifixion! Did that surprise you?
I was thinking it was real crucifixion they were volunteering for. I don't imagine it hurt to do the strap version so I'm not surprised there were volunteers. The ones who wanted the real crucifixion obviously have some issues to work out.
18. Roach explores the concept of "when" is someone dead and the soul has gone. Were you surprised that the heart can keep beating on its own for a minute or two outside of the body? Do you agree with the current belief that death occurs when there is no more brain activity?
I think death is a real fuzzy line. There's 10 times more bacteria cells in your body than human ones and those obviously go along just fine for quite awhile. There's also people who are brought back to life which makes the line fuzzy too. I like the idea that our body acts kinda like a planet where it's a source of gravity. That "gravity" keeps the soul contained in our body. When we die the pull loosens and we float away. I think the more realistic example though is our body is an appliance. If something small is wrong with it then it can be fixed and be good as new. If something large breaks then there's no going back to a working appliance even if some of the parts are still ok.
19. Thoughts on the experiment with cheek cells "feeling" pain when separated from the body?
I think it's probably highly unlikely. I suspect if that really was the case the whole transplant thing wouldn't work since you'd overload all the pain circuits. Plus the way I understand pain to work is that it originates at the source of the pain and transmits to the brain. I know sometimes pain can be felt elsewhere from where it originates though.
20. A lot of this section reminded me of the Unwind books (highly recommended btw!) and the idea that organ donation can also transfer consciousness. According to neuropsychologist Paul Pearsall, over 150 anecdotal cases have been documented. You can freak yourself out with some cases here: www.paulpearsall.com/info/press/index...
This website is referenced in (UnSouled)
Haven't read them. I feel like it's very unlikely that this is actually the case. However, I could see something transferring over. i.e. you have an old man who gets a young runners heart and suddenly feels a ton better (both from the better heart and the lack of a bad heart) and gets up and wants to run. I imagine a lot of the changes are just relief at having passed that milestone and moving on with the next part of your life. So many people die waiting for transplants that they must have been living in a state of waiting for death for a long time.
21. We are getting into the home stretch now. What are your thoughts on the book so far? Are you still finding it enjoyable/fascinating/interesting?
I like it quite a bit. I find the comments on the book amusing. I think you either like the humor or don't like it. I can see it pissing off people who don't like tangents :)
Chapters 7&8Comments and questions
18. Roach explores the concept of "when" is someone dead and the soul has gone. Were you surprised that the heart can keep beating on its own for a minute or two outside of the body? Do you agree with the current belief that death occurs when there is no more brain activity?
I thought the soul tests were interesting. I wonder what the weight that was lifting in the experiment was. I personally believe that death is when the brain dies. Your brain controls everything that you do and are. You have no personality without a brain, you can't think, you can't act, you can't anything. The heart beating thing just made me think of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom when the guy pulls the beating heart out of the living guys chest. Creepy but interesting.
20. A lot of this section reminded me of the Unwind books (highly recommended btw!) and the idea that organ donation can also transfer consciousness. According to neuropsychologist Paul Pearsall, over 150 anecdotal cases have been documented. You can freak yourself out with some cases here: www.paulpearsall.com/info/press/index...
This website is referenced in (UnSouled)
I had the same thought. It's so weird to think that you can feel what someone else feels based on an organ. I want to look more into this and will probably hit up the link you posted because I never looked much while reading Unsouled.
21. We are getting into the home stretch now. What are your thoughts on the book so far? Are you still finding it enjoyable/fascinating/interesting?
I'm finding it really interesting, although I'm finding myself having to re listen to pieces. I have a bad habit of trying to multi task and then not really listening and it's easy to miss stuff in this book if you're not paying attention.
Mod
13. true
16. I agree that is probably a "happy medium"
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@Renee
19. Yes I suppose
21. I've had it on audio which was a good medium for this I think
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@Sarah
8. lol. yes I guess you have to
9. Yes, it may be the thought of what the smell is that makes people queasy rather than the smell itself
10. I can imagine that would be very odd. I'm sorry to hear about his sudden passing
11. agreed
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@Nancy
20. lol!
21. I think different parts interest different people. I have enjoyed it, but can't say I have been totally engaged the whole time
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@Kelly
18. Good analogy
19. It does seem that way, but like Renee says, there are lots of things in this world we can't account for!
21. lol
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@Jex
18. Agreed. An oh yes, I forgot about that bit in Inidian Jones
20. I also have a book here somewhere about it. Totally weird
21. Yes, the skill of audiobook listening! ;)
Chapters 9&10Comments and Questions
22. I don't know that I like the idea that my brain is still alive if my head is severed. I have a huge aversion to pain and there would be massive amounts of nerves sending pain messages to my brain and no way to express them.
23. Do you think it will ever become possible in the future(maybe hundreds of years from now) to have your head transplanted to another person's body? Technology has a history of coming up with unusual devices people would not imagine could exist.
24. Here's my main thought for this section, who should be the identity of the person with a head transplant? The one the head belongs to(10% of body) or the one the body belongs to(90% of body)? The head seems to win. A good reason to define/judge people by their personalities and actions rather than their looks.
25. Then, a chapter I really should not have reread while recovering from being sick. I am very glad for modern medicine. Would you try any of those remedies? Fresh gladiator blood for epilepsy? Mummy elixir? A cup of urine from a public latrine? These were all prescribed for medical issues found in my family.
26. I am not up to date on medical procedures despite several family members in the profession and several others with a plethora of medical issues. And I must admit I didn't really read the fine print and just signed on the line to be an organ donor for my driver's license. But why would blood not be allowed to be donated after death? Does it start to deteriorate too fast?
Sarah wrote: " It was strange viewing the body, the lifeless form that had just two weeks ago been over at the house talking and playing with his niece and visiting and moving and breathing alive, now laying lifeless before me."Are you glad you did it, or do you wish that you did not look?
@Zonnah - I agree with your side point that the personal experiences are more interesting than a recital of facts.
#26. But why would blood not be allowed to be donated after death? Does it start to deteriorate too fast? Organs must have a continuous oxygenated blood supply to be suitable for transplantation or biological death occurs. (As opposed to clinical death.) Blood - since it is considered a tissue - is the same; in other words, it needs itself. Without oxygen, blood starts to coagulate (change to a solid or semisolid state) rather quickly; a lab technician would have to be right there, on the spot.
Chapters 9&10Comments and Questions
22. I don't know that I like the idea that my brain is still alive if my head is severed. I have a huge aversion to pain and there would be massive amounts of nerves sending pain messages to my brain and no way to express them.
It's definitely a bit creepy, but I can't imagine you are really aware of what is happening due to shock. I'm sure you're dosed full of dopamine and adrenaline from the act of dying that you don't really understand that you're decapitated. That's my hope anyway. I guess that would depend on long the head is really alive afterward.
23. Do you think it will ever become possible in the future(maybe hundreds of years from now) to have your head transplanted to another person's body? Technology has a history of coming up with unusual devices people would not imagine could exist.
Anything is possible with science, but I can't say I want it to become a thing. It just makes me think of all the heads in goo on Futurama. They can talk and do things, but are bodyless. I think there is a line that's just too far when it comes to trying to stay alive. But then again, there's the argument of those with spinal injuries and paralysis that keep them from really living. A head transplant could fix that for them and give them a full life again. I guess I have mixed feelings. I also hate the research that would have to happen to make this a thing. The dog studies were hard to listen to and not much usually gets to me.
24. Here's my main thought for this section, who should be the identity of the person with a head transplant? The one the head belongs to(10% of body) or the one the body belongs to(90% of body)? The head seems to win. A good reason to define/judge people by their personalities and actions rather than their looks.
I would say the head. If you think about it like a machine, the brain is like the motherboard. The motherboard tells the rest of the machine what to do and when to do it, then the other parts respond by doing it. The brain is the same in that it tells the body how to be, how to act, what to do at any time. However the brain is more complex as it also works as the hard drive and the memory for the machine. Therefore the 10% of the body (the head) actually performs probably 80% of the body's functions. While things like the heart and the lungs keep the brain alive, they do not add to the personality, memories, or thought process of the body. They are simple functions.
25. Then, a chapter I really should not have reread while recovering from being sick. I am very glad for modern medicine. Would you try any of those remedies? Fresh gladiator blood for epilepsy? Mummy elixir? A cup of urine from a public latrine? These were all prescribed for medical issues found in my family.
The guys that volunteered the honey-fy themselves was weird. I couldn't imagine eating enough honey to make me urinate honey and ick. I can't say that I want to try any of these remedies. I don't even like trying modern remedies. At least back then they probably didn't over medicate. They just ate a lot of poop and spit :-P
26. I am not up to date on medical procedures despite several family members in the profession and several others with a plethora of medical issues. And I must admit I didn't really read the fine print and just signed on the line to be an organ donor for my driver's license. But why would blood not be allowed to be donated after death? Does it start to deteriorate too fast?
My guess is that there is a medical reason for it. I would assume if they could take it out right away blood would be useful, but I know nothing about medicine and how all this stuff works. They can hold blood for however long in a cooler, I would assume they could get it out of the body. However, as soon as you die all the oxygen starts leaving the blood. Maybe it's just too difficult to get out? I don't know. I'm just making stuff up now.
@LK Thanks for the why on the blood. Good to have people around that know something about this field. :-)
Well, I avoid needles as much as possible, but if they ever figure out a way, I would be willing to donate my blood along with my organs after death.Before I read this book last year, I had not thought about people donating their cadavers to science, but I think I prefer to try to help an immediate emergency situation first, therefore organ donation first, then if someone still wants the rest of my body, maybe they can have it. I like feeling I might be helpful even when I am not around any more.
Chapters 7&8Comments and questions
17. The research into the Shroud of Turin was interesting. Especially all the volunteers for crucifixion! Did that surprise you?
Yes it was interesting. It didn’t surprise that people volunteered to be “crucified”, especially if it is to prove the authenticity of a religious icon. Maybe some people try to feel like they walked a little in Jesus’s sandals.
18. Roach explores the concept of "when" is someone dead and the soul has gone. Were you surprised that the heart can keep beating on its own for a minute or two outside of the body? Do you agree with the current belief that death occurs when there is no more brain activity?
Not at all surprised. Yes I do agree that when there is no brain activity that you are dead.
19. Thoughts on the experiment with cheek cells "feeling" pain when separated from the body?
No thoughts about that, I don’t really believe in this kind of thing.
20. A lot of this section reminded me of the Unwind books (highly recommended btw!) and the idea that organ donation can also transfer consciousness. According to neuropsychologist Paul Pearsall, over 150 anecdotal cases have been documented. You can freak yourself out with some cases here: www.paulpearsall.com/info/press/index...
This website is referenced in (UnSouled)
I really want to read this series and have the books on my shelves.
21. We are getting into the home stretch now. What are your thoughts on the book so far? Are you still finding it enjoyable/fascinating/interesting?
The book is ok so far, there are bits I like and some that seem to drag. She tends to over explain certain things (especially in the historical sections). I do like the interviews and fieldtrip descriptions and her sense of humor.
Mod
22. It is creepy. The human body is capable of amazing ways to cope though. I wonder if like what Jex said with going into shock
23. I'm not sure I like the idea of this. More from a point of view that a single body could provide multiple organ donations and therefore save multiple lives. I was pretty shocked that it had been considered at all
24. You have to say it is the head if we say that death occurs when the brain is dead than it stands to reason the brain defines the person. Still creepy though!!
25. Indeed! Although I guess all medicine had to originate somewhere ;)
26. Ah yes I hadn't thought of it either. Thanks LK for the explanation!
Chapters 9&10Comments and Questions
23. Do you think it will ever become possible in the future(maybe hundreds of years from now) to have your head transplanted to another person's body? Technology has a history of coming up with unusual devices people would not imagine could exist.
I'm sure it will be possible....but it seems really creepy, except for instances like giving quadriplegics a chance to move.
24. Here's my main thought for this section, who should be the identity of the person with a head transplant? The one the head belongs to(10% of body) or the one the body belongs to(90% of body)? The head seems to win. A good reason to define/judge people by their personalities and actions rather than their looks.
I think the head. That is where the brains/memory is stored. A new body gives people the ability to prolong their lives and continue to live and have new experiences but the brain allows them to remember their past.
25. Then, a chapter I really should not have reread while recovering from being sick. I am very glad for modern medicine. Would you try any of those remedies? Fresh gladiator blood for epilepsy? Mummy elixir? A cup of urine from a public latrine? These were all prescribed for medical issues found in my family.
I wouldn't try any of those remedies...not sure there was ever any proof that they even worked!
I finished this book over vacation this week so my apologies for the long response! 1. This book sounded extremely interesting! I was hoping to learn more about bodies.
2. I absolutely agree that death makes us polite. I think it makes us each realize that we're not immortal. We think about our own lives when death is brought up.
5. I've not thought much about donating my body, but this book makes me wonder if maybe I should consider it? I'm an organ donor, & then I would like to be cremated. However, maybe some other scientific use can come of my bodily donation.
6. I did like the history. The author did a great job of mixing that in with her stories. It made it all that more fascinating.
8. I'm usually ok with this kind of material. There was only 1 chapter (toward the end) that made me want to stop eating my M&Ms.
9. I guess I'd have to actually smell corpses before really commenting on the author's description. I'm not sure I could ever classify it as sweet, but maybe?
10. I live in America, so embalming isn't really weird. Unless a person was severely injured, our viewings are usually open casket -- at least that what I've seen.
11. Cadavers do make sense to use for crash tests. I would agree that child cadavers would be awkward & I don't think I could allow it.
12. I would think it would be hard to see a plane crash & its aftermath, regardless of whether the bodies were whole or just parts.
13. I don't know how any price can be put on any human life.
14. I suppose everyone would react differently to a gun shot. I think it depends on your lifestyle, your upbringing, & your mental capacity. Reacting psychologically or physiologically to a gunshot wound is probably different for all.
15. I honestly don't see anything wrong w/ using human cadavers for scientific research, as long as the scientists & doctors are very respectful of the cadavers.
16. I'm not sure if I agree that family should be upset if they ask why a loved one's body is being used. If that person agreed to something research-wise, then those wishes should be respected. I guess I just wouldn't want to know. It's not as if the body is still the loved one.
18. Yes, I agree that death occurs with the absence of brain activity. However, it would still be hard to be put into a situation where you had to decide to let a loved one go or let that person live by machines.
23. I don't know if I want to think about head transplants in the future! How could one person be the same person with the same head but a different body?! Yikes. Too much to think about there…
25. I would absolutely not try any of those human bodily function remedies!
Chapters 9&10Comments and Questions
22. I don't know that I like the idea that my brain is still alive if my head is severed. I have a huge aversion to pain and there would be massive amounts of nerves sending pain messages to my brain and no way to express them.
I thought that since the spinal cord is severed so high it would be like becoming an instant quadraplegic and you wouldn't feel too much pain. If you can pass out from the shock of thinking you've been shot when you haven't, chances are you'd probably pass out from the shock of actually having your head chopped off. There might be a couple of seconds of awareness before the brain shut down, but I think it would be quicker than hanging.
23. Do you think it will ever become possible in the future(maybe hundreds of years from now) to have your head transplanted to another person's body? Technology has a history of coming up with unusual devices people would not imagine could exist.
Alcor certainly hope there is, they are charging a minimum of $ 80,000.00 for Neurocryopreservation (Chopping off and freezing your head).
24. Here's my main thought for this section, who should be the identity of the person with a head transplant? The one the head belongs to(10% of body) or the one the body belongs to(90% of body)? The head seems to win. A good reason to define/judge people by their personalities and actions rather than their looks.
I vote the head is the boss.
25. Then, a chapter I really should not have reread while recovering from being sick. I am very glad for modern medicine. Would you try any of those remedies? Fresh gladiator blood for epilepsy? Mummy elixir? A cup of urine from a public latrine? These were all prescribed for medical issues found in my family.
The honey one stood out to me. Wouldn't try any of them though.
26. I am not up to date on medical procedures despite several family members in the profession and several others with a plethora of medical issues. And I must admit I didn't really read the fine print and just signed on the line to be an organ donor for my driver's license. But why would blood not be allowed to be donated after death? Does it start to deteriorate too fast?
In Australia we have a good live blood donation program, but I don't see why they shouldn't add blood to the list of organs and tissues you can donate from a beating heart cadaver. With normal blood donation there are anticoagulants in the bag that the blood is collected in that stop it clotting. I volunteered at the blood bank when I was in high school. A strange feeling to have a warm bag of someones blood sitting on your lap...They have machines to weigh it now, but we did it by hand - and won a chocolate frog if we got within 5 grams.
FAQ from Red Cross state
"All blood donations are tested and processed and available for use between 24 and 48 hours after collection. Whole blood is separated into its components (red cells, platelets, plasma). After processing, red cells can be stored for up to 42 days; plasma is frozen and can be stored for up to 12 months; and platelets have a shelf-life of only five days."
Guys, sorry about this, but I'm going to have to postpone finishing this book. I'm currently having to read another non-fiction book for school and with this one combined it's just facts overload my brain can't handle it. Thanks for the educated responses and sharing your thoughts!
Jex wrote: "I would say the head. If you think about it like a machine, the brain is like the motherboard. The motherboard tells the rest of the machine what to do and when to do it, then the other parts respond by doing it."Good analogy.
Imke wrote: "I do like the interviews and fieldtrip descriptions and her sense of humor. "Me too.
Susan wrote: "There was only 1 chapter (toward the end) that made me want to stop eating my M&Ms. "Do you remember which chapter? Just curious.
Ashley wrote: " I'm currently having to read another non-fiction book for school and with this one combined it's just facts overload my brain can't handle it."I completely understand. Enjoy your other NF book :)
Mod
lol I understand :)
Chapters 11&12Comments and Diiscussion
27. We have a few really environment friendly people at work who even put a compost bucket in our staff break room. Anyone now hoping they can plan a "water reduction" instead of cremation or burial?
28. I always liked the experiments of freezing objects in liquid nitrogen and then shattering them. Not so sure I like the idea with people. I guess, though, that I wouldn't see it, only the results like with cremation, so the actuality of it wouldn't make me as squeamish as the idea.
29. There are so many things to think about when I die. Has this book made anyone change their minds about what to do? Anyone decide that they need to know exactly what happens to them or decide that they don't want to think about it at all so they will leave it up to their next of kin?
30. I like the author's point that much of the funeral ceremony is for the loved ones and she is taking that into account in her decision.
31. Anyone else interested in reading some of the author's other books now?
Gulp: Adventures on the Alimentary Canal
Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex
Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void
Chapters 9&10Comments and Questions
22. I don't know that I like the idea that my brain is still alive if my head is severed. I have a huge aversion to pain and there would be massive amounts of nerves sending pain messages to my brain and no way to express them.
I imagine it stops registering pain at that point. I'm guessing it's like when accident victims have poles through their stomach and their brain is just fuzzy.
23. Do you think it will ever become possible in the future(maybe hundreds of years from now) to have your head transplanted to another person's body? Technology has a history of coming up with unusual devices people would not imagine could exist.
Hrm... I imagine it could be done but I think it would take a long time for that person to learn to do anything with the body. I'm not sure on the breathing thing. They'd have to remap all the pathways. (Similar to how transplants of smaller items go where you have to learn how to use the new hardware as it were). I'm guessing that a robotic body is probably more likely. Probably even with a robotic brain. That takes the soul argument to a whole new level.
I do have to say that I think it would be sad to transplant a head onto someone who they could use to give many more people additional life. It seems like until we get enough transplants for everyone that we shouldn't look for ways to use them up faster. If they're going to be bedridden for life wouldn't a better way to do things be to figure out a way to keep just the head alive?
24. Here's my main thought for this section, who should be the identity of the person with a head transplant? The one the head belongs to(10% of body) or the one the body belongs to(90% of body)? The head seems to win. A good reason to define/judge people by their personalities and actions rather than their looks.
Yeah, it's got to be the head. If you think about it, it's kinda like online interaction. There's not really any part of the body involved except for data entry. Wonder what that means for multiple personality disorder...
25. Then, a chapter I really should not have reread while recovering from being sick. I am very glad for modern medicine. Would you try any of those remedies? Fresh gladiator blood for epilepsy? Mummy elixir? A cup of urine from a public latrine? These were all prescribed for medical issues found in my family.
I think people just got better so they had to stop taking the "medicine". *shudders*. I do think some of the medicine we have today probably is hokey too though. A lot of stuff works on the placebo effect. However, I think our testing standards are better than they used to be. I think what we don't do well is define what normal is. We try to get everyone too close to center when there's not a need to. (Thinking mainly of behavior modifying medications, though some for hormone imbalance stuff is applicable as well.)
The honeyed man one was pretty creepy. Who decided to do it first? You have to wait 100 years to see if it works... Did they try doing a bunch of preserves to see if honey was better than jam or milk or salt? The whole human in dumplings thing seemed odd too. Seems like a lot of effort to save a little bit of cow. Then again there was a story from here of some restaurant making breast milk cheese or ice cream or something and not telling it's patrons. So...
26. I am not up to date on medical procedures despite several family members in the profession and several others with a plethora of medical issues. And I must admit I didn't really read the fine print and just signed on the line to be an organ donor for my driver's license. But why would blood not be allowed to be donated after death? Does it start to deteriorate too fast?
I wouldn't think it'd be worth it to try to collect blood from a donor after death. It's only 12 or so donations from someone if they had all their blood still used. Plus I'd imagine you'd want it for the organs your harvesting. However, I do think it would be "neat" if they could take a few type 0 braindead people and use them as blood banks. Creepy but seems like it would be useful if you could just pull blood from the same person.
I have been following along but not staying up on the questions - I have learned a lot - but non fiction is just not my favorite. I am snowed in today and gonna focus on my murder mystery instead.
Chapters 11&12Comments and Discussion
27. We have a few really environment friendly people at work who even put a compost bucket in our staff break room. Anyone now hoping they can plan a "water reduction" instead of cremation or burial?
I love the idea of composting human remains. Growing up I always thought how I wanted to be spread in a garden or planted as a tree or something to give back after death vs just rotting in a box. I wish that this would become more mainstream.
28. I always liked the experiments of freezing objects in liquid nitrogen and then shattering them. Not so sure I like the idea with people. I guess, though, that I wouldn't see it, only the results like with cremation, so the actuality of it wouldn't make me as squeamish as the idea.
It surprisingly doesn't bother me to know that a body is being shattered. To me it's not really any different then burning it. In fact I think burning sounds worse just because I envision melting flesh and it probably smells and leaves residue and all sorts of gross.
29. There are so many things to think about when I die. Has this book made anyone change their minds about what to do? Anyone decide that they need to know exactly what happens to them or decide that they don't want to think about it at all so they will leave it up to their next of kin?
I had always kind of thought it would be cool to give to science but didn't know how, or that it was a thing people could easily do. Now I really want to give my body to whatever cause needs it. I'll have to do more research on exactly how to donate and all that jazz, but it's a thing I want to do. Hopefully my family will understand and follow through with it.
30. I like the author's point that much of the funeral ceremony is for the loved ones and she is taking that into account in her decision.
I think you can have a good ceremony without having the actual body. I've been to numerous ceremonies where there was simply the urn of ashes. Who's to say if the ashes are really in there? No one opens it at the thing. I think a good memorial ceremony can be held without my lifeless form being in attendance. Then again, I'm not religious or even really sentimental, so I'm weird.
31. Anyone else interested in reading some of the author's other books now?
I added all three to my "to-read" list. I don't know that they sound quite as interesting to me, but they do sound intriguing. Especially Gulp.
Chapters 9&10Comments and Questions
22. I don't know that I like the idea that my brain is still alive if my head is severed. I have a huge aversion to pain and there would be massive amounts of nerves sending pain messages to my brain and no way to express them.
23. Do you think it will ever become possible in the future (maybe hundreds of years from now) to have your head transplanted to another person's body? Technology has a history of coming up with unusual devices people would not imagine could exist.
No I don’t think it’s going to be possible. Also if there would be a machine or technique to make head/total body transplants possible it won’t be a widely used technique as it’s extremely expensive.
24. Here's my main thought for this section, who should be the identity of the person with a head transplant? The one the head belongs to(10% of body) or the one the body belongs to(90% of body)? The head seems to win. A good reason to define/judge people by their personalities and actions rather than their looks.
The head probably contains personality in my opinion, the brain also contains your memories and experiences which greatly influence your personality.
25. Then, a chapter I really should not have reread while recovering from being sick. I am very glad for modern medicine. Would you try any of those remedies? Fresh gladiator blood for epilepsy? Mummy elixir? A cup of urine from a public latrine? These were all prescribed for medical issues found in my family.
I wouldn’t try any of these if they were still available treatments.
26. I am not up to date on medical procedures despite several family members in the profession and several others with a plethora of medical issues. And I must admit I didn't really read the fine print and just signed on the line to be an organ donor for my driver's license. But why would blood not be allowed to be donated after death? Does it start to deteriorate too fast?
Chapters 11&12Comments and Discussion
27. We have a few really environment friendly people at work who even put a compost bucket in our staff break room. Anyone now hoping they can plan a "water reduction" instead of cremation or burial?
I kinda like the idea of being turned into compost and having a new tree planted. I know some people do that with miscarriages (not the compost part but the tree part). I guess I never really got into the whole funeral type of thing or any ceremony for that regard. Some people seem to need ceremony and some don't.
28. I always liked the experiments of freezing objects in liquid nitrogen and then shattering them. Not so sure I like the idea with people. I guess, though, that I wouldn't see it, only the results like with cremation, so the actuality of it wouldn't make me as squeamish as the idea.
I had a liquid nitrogen party when I was 8 and my parent's routinely did liquid nitrogen demo's for various groups so it probably has different feelings for me than most other people. I was surprised it was that cheap though. I tried to get a small dewer of it and that was going to be $30 but you can get machines that make it so I suspect a place would just have their own.
29. There are so many things to think about when I die. Has this book made anyone change their minds about what to do? Anyone decide that they need to know exactly what happens to them or decide that they don't want to think about it at all so they will leave it up to their next of kin?
I don't really care all that much what happens to me (except I would prefer organ donation if it works out). I suppose I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I'd vastly prefer that my family tell me what they want done. It seems like a big decision to make for someone else even though I personally don't care. It might be because I don't care that it seems so daunting to make the choice for someone else.
It reminds me a lot of wrapping paper. I keep going back and forth on whether I do nice wrapping paper or not. I went through a phase where I just did brown paper and I'm in a phase currently where I have pretty paper, and bows and make flowers to attach and such. It all gets thrown away, just like whatever they do to your body (i.e. casket, burning, freezing, etc.). Seems strange to waste so much money on something that doesn't really matter. I suppose I'll probably oscillate back and forth on the issue.
30. I like the author's point that much of the funeral ceremony is for the loved ones and she is taking that into account in her decision.
I always thought it was strange to specify really specific things you wanted done to your body. Plus, what happens if you specify something really creepy like "each person who wants their inheritance must eat an ounce of my flash". I guess it depends a lot on the family. They might appreciate not having to make any decisions.
31. Anyone else interested in reading some of the author's other books now?
Gulp: Adventures on the Alimentary Canal
Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex
Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void
I'd like to read her other books. But take a look at some of the books she wrote the forward to :)
Chapters 11&12Comments and Diiscussion
27. We have a few really environment friendly people at work who even put a compost bucket in our staff break room. Anyone now hoping they can plan a "water reduction" instead of cremation or burial?
Kind of gross to think about everyone in one massive compost bucket; however, like Jex, I really like the idea of cultivating a flower bed or tree.
28. I always liked the experiments of freezing objects in liquid nitrogen and then shattering them. Not so sure I like the idea with people. I guess, though, that I wouldn't see it, only the results like with cremation, so the actuality of it wouldn't make me as squeamish as the idea.
That is pretty cool. Again, I agree with Jex; better than burning.
29. There are so many things to think about when I die. Has this book made anyone change their minds about what to do? Anyone decide that they need to know exactly what happens to them or decide that they don't want to think about it at all so they will leave it up to their next of kin?
I haven’t thought about donating my body to science in years; however, this brings it back to me and I’m leaning that way. I’m getting so old, I don’t know if anyone would want my organs. LOL!
30. I like the author's point that much of the funeral ceremony is for the loved ones and she is taking that into account in her decision.
I don’t think a body is necessary to the ceremony. I’ve been to several memorial services recently – more than funerals.
31. Anyone else interested in reading some of the author's other books now?
Gulp: Adventures on the Alimentary Canal
Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex
Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void
Maybe the first two.
As a side note, I listened to the audio - which I thought was well-narrated - while I was out doing errands. I kept thinking, if only these people knew what I was listening to! More evidence that it isn't a socially accepted topic. Very interesting, though, and I can't help but be glad that I 'read' it.
Lisa Kay wrote: "More evidence that it isn't a socially accepted topic."My husband was shocked when he found out what I was reading.
@LK: I listened to the audio as well. I often turn on the timer and listen as I'm falling asleep at night and my bf woke up while it was playing. He just looked at me and went "a bit morbid tonight aren't we". I laughed and turned it up :-P
Zonnah wrote: "Lisa Kay wrote: "More evidence that it isn't a socially accepted topic."My husband was shocked when he found out what I was reading."
Heh. I kept reading quotes to my husband from the book and he'd glare at me and ask why I had to quote this book instead of other ones I read.
I have told several people about the Thomas Edison and the little people in our brain who work on shifts because I think it's hilarious.
Zonnah wrote: "My husband was shocked when he found out what I was reading."Oh, dear!
Jex wrote: "@LK: I listened to the audio as well. I often turn on the timer and listen as I'm falling asleep at night and my bf woke up while it was playing. He just looked at me and went "a bit morbid tonight aren't we". I laughed and turned it up :-P"LMBO!
Kelly wrote: "I have told several people about the Thomas Edison and the little people in our brain who work on shifts because I think it's hilarious."**chuckles**
Mod
27. I actually went and googled this when I read it as I was ready to put it in my will! Ufortunately the company still hasn't got the whole composting of bodies thing going on a large scale yet.
28. I'm with Jex on this, and it is kind of cool to imagine too :)
29. I'm not sure I'd give myself to science. More because my grandfather was cremated and scattered and there is not even a plaque or anything which I've always had an issue with. I never felt I had somewhere to go and remember him. whereas my father was cremated and the ashes buried under a rose bush and I spent a lot of time there. So I guess I feel there is value in having remains somewhere. I would need to know more about it before gicing my body to science. I am an organ donor. I would prefer to be compost under a nice tree ;)
30. I completely agree
31. I would start them on audio, but my library only has this one! Hopefully they will get Gulp soon as I think I prefer non fiction on audio
Thanks for doing the DQs for the last 2 days Turtlecollector. I hope you are feeling better
Chapters 11&12Comments and Diiscussion
27. We have a few really environment friendly people at work who even put a compost bucket in our staff break room. Anyone now hoping they can plan a "water reduction" instead of cremation or burial?
I found a company doing it in Australia, they call it Aquamation. http://www.aquamationindustries.com/ I would consider it depending on costs involved.
28. I always liked the experiments of freezing objects in liquid nitrogen and then shattering them. Not so sure I like the idea with people. I guess, though, that I wouldn't see it, only the results like with cremation, so the actuality of it wouldn't make me as squeamish as the idea.
I like the idea of fertilizing a shrub, but I'm not much of a green thumb in life, so I hope I don't kill the poor plant.
29. There are so many things to think about when I die. Has this book made anyone change their minds about what to do? Anyone decide that they need to know exactly what happens to them or decide that they don't want to think about it at all so they will leave it up to their next of kin?
Funerals are for the living, so I would like to comunicate what I would prefer, but ultimately I'm not there to see what happens anyway, so whatever helps my loved ones cope best is fine by me.
30. I like the author's point that much of the funeral ceremony is for the loved ones and she is taking that into account in her decision.
Having a funeral plan or prepaid funeral is another way to make things easier for your loved ones so that the funeral isn't also a finacial burden.
31. Anyone else interested in reading some of the author's other books now?
Gulp: Adventures on the Alimentary Canal
Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex
Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void
Maybe sometime down the track. I need to escape back into my world of fiction for the next few books though.
What have I learned? - Everything I ever needed or wanted or didn't want to know about human cadavers... And then some.
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
Gulp: Adventures on the Alimentary Canal (other topics)Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex (other topics)
Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void (other topics)
Unwind (other topics)
UnSouled (other topics)
12. Yes, that seems to happen more and more that people won't eat meat with bones in it as they don't like the association
13. haha
16. yes very true. I think curiosity would get the better of me
17. I watched a show here where the host actually had himself nailed to a cross in Jerusalem (along with others)!
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@nancy
13. I agree. I've run out of synonyms for "surprised"!
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@esther
9. me either ;)
12. I think the parts would be harder for me. I agree that hopefully I will not see either!
16. Agreed
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@Kelly
12. yes. I think it depends on the person too
13. very engineer answer.. haha.. But seriously I understand what you mean
14. true
15. ewwww
16. Agreed
17. Possibly! I find my versions of books are sometimes different to the US versions. Makes it a pain!