Moral Ambiguity In Thrillers (Most Amoral Characters In The Genre)

[Samuel , Director]

Leading on from the discussion (moral ambiguity in thrillers), who are the most morally ambiguous characters, you've come across in the spy/counter-terrorist genre?

[Samuel , Director]

I'll start with General Sanderson, one of the main characters of the Black Flagged spy thrillers and the founder of the titular program. Patriotic to a fault, Sanderson believes that his creation is what's needed to protect the country he loves from increasingly unpredictable threats to national security, if only the men in the White House and the J. Edgar Hoover building would get off their high horse and tolerate him. He's also willing to eliminate those that threaten what he's created including law enforcement.

[Samuel , Director]

Now, I'm not sure if "The Quiet American" is a spy thriller ( and if any group member thinks it shouldn't belong in this discussion or is in a different genre, I will delete this post)
but the CIA officer Alden Pyle is a fantastic example of proper moral ambiguity. On one hand, he's trying to provide a viable alternative to the communists and the current corrupt regime running South Vietnam, but on the other hand, he's actively engaging in a false-flag operation and sponsoring acts of terrorism which cause significant collateral damage

[Gopal]

So far the best amoral character that I have come across was in Matthew Reilly's Scarecrow and The Army of Thieves "The Lord of Anarchy", closely followed by the Carnivore from yet another Matt Reilly book Seven Ancient Wonders.

Now I am not sure that these two books would qualify as spy thrillers given that they are more of high adrenaline adventure thrillers involving various spy groups and factions. Let me know if that's the case and I will delete this post.

[Samuel , Director]

Gopal wrote: "So far the best amoral character that I have come across was in Matthew Reilly's Scarecrow and The Army of Thieves "The Lord of Anarchy", closely followed by the Carnivore from yet another Matt Rei..."

Don't worry, it's classified as a spy/military/action thriller by goodreads so "The Army Of Thieves" qualifies. "Seven Ancient Wonders" in contrast isn't part of the spy thriller genre, being more of a indiana jones esque thriller. Nevertheless the post can stay :)

[Samuel , Director]

Gopal wrote: "So far the best amoral character that I have come across was in Matthew Reilly's Scarecrow and The Army of Thieves "The Lord of Anarchy", closely followed by the Carnivore from yet another Matt Rei..."

In your opinion, what made "The Lord Of Anarchy" an amoral villain?

[Gopal]

The Lord of Anarchy is a thinker, a planner, a man who analyzes a situation without emotions and is ready to go to any lengths to realize his vision. Once he has decided on a course of outcome, no price is too less getting the job done is the end game. A person who can visualize and guide the course of history from the background always pulling the strings is a man always taken seriously.

[Samuel , Director]

Gopal wrote: "The Lord of Anarchy is a thinker, a planner, a man who analyzes a situation without emotions and is ready to go to any lengths to realize his vision. Once he has decided on a course of outcome, no ..."

So he's a visionary with an agenda to fulfil and doesn't mind if his hands get bloody while doing so.

[Gopal]

Yup. It's not just about getting his hands bloody its about wholesale genocide just to get to the end objective.

[Samuel , Director]

General Li from The Ghost War by Alex Berenson. Well meaning with a sense of honor and a desire to help the less fortunate players in China's economic boom, he believes starting a limited conflict in Asia and dabbling in state sponsored terrorism can help him clean up the rotten political class in the PRC.

[Samuel , Director]

Felix Cortez, the former DGI officer from Clancy's Clear and Present Danger. Practical, intelligent and highly ambitious, he effortlessly screws over the US government, his own employers and stays one step ahead of everybody in his quest to take control of the international drug trade are defined by his pragmatism in contrast to his violent and brutish bosses.

[Samuel , Director]

There was a villain in this book. I forgot his name. Well meaning fellow who was driven to despair by the apathy of world leaders to environmental problems (in the world which it's set in, the environment is degenerating at a rapid clip), and social decay caused by refugees fleeing from the devastated areas. So he made a deal with the devil to get his cause in the spotlight. The devil being a group of nightmarishly competent Islamic terrorists, and the deal being, he act as the point man for an operation they are about to conduct. For most of the book, he begins to have regrets, second thoughts and near the end, decides he himself has gone too far and tries his best to bring the situation back from the brink.

[Samuel , Director]

Another character of note. His codename is "David" and he has the honor of being perhaps the only sympathetic antagonist Vince Flynn created.
A Palestinian, David's an agent provocateur, with a difference. He loathes the terrorist groups who he believes justifiably are getting in the way of settling the Israeli/Palestinian dispute. So he hatches a plan and after convincing the unpleasant Director General Of Mossad to give him an exploding briefcase, executes it. It would have gone well if his new business partner hadn't screwed him over by adding a helicopter gunship to the equation. So after escaping, he begins enacting one of the better evil schemes to feature in the Rapp series, making decisions which he regrets to do so.

[Samuel , Director]

Here's a discussion question to mull over.

Is there any defining line between a character who stuffs their humanity into a small box when they go off to do a violent job and the character who is explicitly stated to be insane/mentally unstable?

There's this book I just finished. The main character is a bit murky and could be classified as one or the other. I personally think he leans more towards the "box" type.

He doesn't display much empathy, but he doesn't behave like a psychopath either, no pretensions, arrogance or homicidal urges, he's a professional killer with a capital P Coolly logical and cynical is how I would describe him. Unsentimental.

[[deleted user]]

Colonel Edward Lansdale, USAF, was actually working for the CIA during the period of the 1950s, 60s and 70s. He was a true American patriot and believed in democracy but had no qualms using some very questionable methods to fight communism in Indochina/Vietnam, Laos and Central and South America. Those methods included torturing suspects, assassination of politicians and union leaders and executing terrorist attacks to then put the blame on communist adversaries. The spy character in the novel 'THE QUIET AMERICAN' is very possibly inspired by Edward Lansdale's dirty tricks in French Indochina.

[Samuel , Director]

Michel wrote: "Colonel Edward Lansdale, USAF, was actually working for the CIA during the period of the 1950s, 60s and 70s. He was a true American patriot and believed in democracy but had no qualms using some ve..."

He was indeed. And Mr Lansdale took his revenge upon Graham Greene by getting a prominent role in the production of the first film version of the quiet american and butchering the source material in a way that would have ticked off the author.