Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
Heyer in General
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Heyer Sequels Wishlist
You are right about the young men, and I think the same could be true for the older men and even the shocking old ladies, the grandmothers who like to think of themselves as not so namby-pamby as subsequent generations. But I am talking about language that somewhat surprisingly comes out of the mouths of mothers and daughters.Because if you read through that dictionary, it rather makes it clear which words would probably be out of place in a drawing room.
Sometimes I think GH was trying a little too hard with the slang, as time went on. You can see that by comparing a book like Regency Buck , which was the first of her regencies, and the language there is closer to Austen's, with a book like The Unknown Ajax, where the slang comes rather thick and fast.
I happen to like TUA a lot better than RB, but there are times when I find the slang a little annoying, just because it seems a little forced.
And so (back to the subject of sequels) if a dusty forgotten GH manuscript were to turn up in somebody's attic, the sequel to a favorite book, I would rather it was in her early style rather than the later.
Just enjoyed reading this whole thread - some great ideas. It got me thinking that in some ways Heyer did give us some inadvertent sequels - wasn't Sherry from Friday's Child a development of Pelham Winwood from The Convenient Marriage? Vincent Darracott and Jack Westruther are very similar minor characters, who both have a lot in common (minus the large bank balances!) with heros such as Vidal from Devil's Cub and Max Ravenscar from Faro's Daughter. And although I agree with the comments about how lowering Judith Taverner's character development is in An Infamous Army, I think Heyer probably hit the mark by presenting her as a bit of a dull and prosy young matron - she had those tendencies in Regency Buck! But I love the way she takes a wonderful minor character like Charles Audley, and gives him such a starring roll. I only wish one of the Alastaires might have dropped a hint as to what became of the Comyns - did he achieve great things in politics? There would definitely have been scope for a whole new Heyer genre of early Victorian fiction, with Felix Merriville becoming a Titan of industry, a next generation of Darracotts bridging the gap between the industrial north and their aristocratic acres in Suffolk, and young Giles Jonathon growing up to be who knows what!?
Oh, Felix as a industrial giant just made me laugh! Wouldn't he be wonderful? And what kind of crazy romantic escapades would he get up to, I wonder...
Sarah wrote: Felix Merriville becoming a Titan of industryKarlyne wrote: Wouldn't he be wonderful? And what kind of crazy romantic escapades would he get up to, I wonder...
Darn. I want to read that book!
Teresa wrote: "Sarah wrote: Felix Merriville becoming a Titan of industryKarlyne wrote: Wouldn't he be wonderful? And what kind of crazy romantic escapades would he get up to, I wonder...
Darn. I want to read..."
Me, too!
Heh. I actually swiped Felix for a Victorian fantasy roleplaying game I was running, and turned him into a famous inventor. Seemed appropriate...
Margaret wrote: "Heh. I actually swiped Felix for a Victorian fantasy roleplaying game I was running, and turned him into a famous inventor. Seemed appropriate..."I saw him more as an inventor too!
***Carol*** wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Heh. I actually swiped Felix for a Victorian fantasy roleplaying game I was running, and turned him into a famous inventor. Seemed appropriate..."I saw him more as an inventor too!"
Oh, definitely an inventor, one who turns his inventions into lots of glorious gold!
Unfortunately, industrialist and inventor would be no career for a gentleman (not that Felix or his family would mind). It would have been a big departure for GH to write a romance around such a man. And the same for Jessamy, because the vicar is never the hero, although it would be quiet unexceptionable in the kind of clean romance Heyer wrote.Speaking of vicars: I'd give a lot to see Hugh Rattray in love!
Teresa wrote: "Unfortunately, industrialist and inventor would be no career for a gentleman (not that Felix or his family would mind). It would have been a big departure for GH to write a romance around such a m..."I beg leave to differ slightly; gentlemen were often inventors, partly because they were the only people with both enough education and time to experiment endlessly.
Being an industrialist might be more unusual. I think Felix would have invented madly, perhaps taking out lots of patents. But remember that he always got on very well with engineers and factory owners etc., so I suspect he would have worked with them to get his ideas put into practice.
Teresa wrote: "Speaking of vicars: I'd give a lot to see Hugh Rattray in love! ."Yes, yes, yes!! Handsome and way too serious for his own good. If ever a guy needed a spunky heroine here's the guy for it. He's like Charles in the Grand Sophy. I loved how he cheered Freddy on in the climax of Cotillion, so you know there's room for improvement in his character :)
As a hobby they might do so, yes, but once they sold what they invented (became industrialists or sold their patents) they were in trade. And gentlemen did not go into trade ... or if they did society frowned on them.Felix would have the patronage of a rich and powerful brother-in-law, so people would no doubt put up with his eccentricities, so long as they could pretend they were eccentricities and not a way of making a living.
Amy wrote: "I think my first request for our dear GH would be for another chapter in The Nonesuch.It probably makes me a bad person but I want to see Tiffany's face when she finds out Ancilla and Waldo are m..."
Amy, I've just re-read The Nonesuch (for the twentieth time!) and I quite agree with you...Tiffany needs to be put in her place. And then maybe someone can do a sequel based on her redeeming her character? Can't say I have it in me. I find her such a trial I couldn't drum up the empathy needed :)
DG
Teresa wrote: "Actually, you can find a lot of the slang (and the definitions, whe..."Thanks for the link Teresa. Never knew it existed.
Do you think readers today would enjoy reading as much slang as GH uses? I'm not sure, which is why I've avoided using it myself.
Mod
Not in GH, but Jane Austen didn't think twice, did she? But GH's heroes never work for a living at all, except in the more historically-based books where they can be soldiers.
Jenny wrote: "But GH's heroes never work for a living at all, except in the more historically-based books where they can be soldiers. ."Ahem... Miles from Black Sheep :)
Do you think readers today would enjoy reading as much slang as GH uses?I enjoy it hugely, and think it's a large part of GH's charm, but then I'm a language nerd.
D.G. wrote: "Teresa wrote: "Actually, you can find a lot of the slang (and the definitions, whe..."Thanks for the link Teresa. Never knew it existed.
Do you think readers today would enjoy reading as much slang as GH uses? I'm not sure, which is why I've avoided using it myself."
Yes, I do. It sets the book firmly in the period. Intelligent readers will catch on. I love the language GH uses and it makes her books more fun. I don't care for contemporary written historical fiction that sounds modern. It's one of my big pet peeves and lowers a book's rating.
I, too, hate historical fiction that sounds too modern. Or that makes a tortured attempt not to sound modern and ends up just sounding garbled, with weird sentence structure and misused words on every page, so that their characters don't sound in period either. GH avoids both traps, there is no doubt about that! I guess the thing that I am wondering about is whether the way the characters speak always accurately reflects their situation in life. And I don't know, but I suspect not. A more important question is, does it really matter?
As for the slang putting off modern readers, I think it will in some cases, and attract readers in others. The books were re-issued a few years ago and still appear to be selling, so I think she is making new fans every day (although some of those sales will be to old fans who have read their old editions to rags!).
Barbara wrote: "Me too. I am very wary of sequels written by contemporary authors. Even that admirable author PD James did a poor job, IMHO, with Death Comes to Pemberley, her P & P sequel."I rather agree. If I thought all of P. D. James's books were like Death Comes to Pemberley, I'd probably never get around to reading any of them. I did think the basic premise was good, but the story as it unfolded just wasn't light enough to be very Austenian.
SPOILERS COMING! It was pretty easy to see why Ms. James had introduced the new characters into the story and thus to see through the mystery itself. On the other hand, she handled Austen's characters quite well. I was glad that, in her telling, Mary Bennet wasn't the last sister to marry and Charlotte Lucas Collins found a way to tolerate her husband.
"Vincent . . . is not so bad that he must have Tiffany! I agree that would be a great book, seeing the partial reform of Vincent Darracott."I think Vincent might do best matched against someone like Mary Challoner or Sophy. (Of course, tee hee,if he didn't mind his manners around either of them, she might shoot him!) I think, too, that Vincent would need to accomplish something in his own right to ease his bitter outlook and smooth his sharp tongue.
I would like to see a sequel featuring Adam and Jenny's son Giles, from A Civil Contract, when he is a young man. Papa Chawleigh oh him now why did I forget about him, he is a very entertaining supporting character!
Critterbee wrote: "I would like to see a sequel featuring Adam and Jenny's son Giles, from A Civil Contract, when he is a young man. Papa Chawleigh oh him now why did I forget about him, he is a very entertaining s..."
Yes Giles would be fun. I can see a nice story around his falling in love with an Unsuitable Young Woman and his Grandpapa Chawleigh being outraged .
Of course, the thing about Regency novels is that the period is so short (the most you can stretch it is about 20 years). By the time the next generation has grown up enough to start having romances, you're into the Victorian period.
Ah the difficult balance of storytelling and historical accuracy...
After finishing Cotillion I found myself thinking about the future of Olivia's younger sisters. You know as soon as she's recovered from her shock their mother is going to start all over again with one of them. I'd like to see one of them turn out to have a backbone, break away from her (maybe with some help from Kitty and Freddie), find a decent guy to fall in love with, and rescue the remaining siblings from being sold off! Maybe she could dish out a little extra humiliation for Jack while she's at it...
I am new to the group, and have just come across this discussion. I would love to see a sequel to Frederica with Felix and Jessamy all grown up and The Marquis and Frederica managing their home in their own different way! Also The Grand Sophy and Cotillion would lead to very interesting sequels. Having said that, I don't think anyone else can do justice to the talent that was of Georgette Heyer! Had she herself done it, it would have been a treat; but no one can match The Georgette Heyer exquisiteness!
Seema wrote: "I am new to the group, and have just come across this discussion. I would love to see a sequel to Frederica with Felix and Jessamy all grown up and The Marquis and Frederica managing their home in ..."I agree, Seema, no one could do justice to Heyer. I think it demonstrates how skilful she was, that we can so easily imagine the characters living on after the books end.
HJ wrote: "Seema wrote: "I am new to the group, and have just come across this discussion. I would love to see a sequel to Frederica with Felix and Jessamy all grown up and The Marquis and Frederica managing ..."Exactly so HJ! None can do her justice in my opinion. I get pulled into the Regency Era where she so easily takes us through her accurate depiction. There are great authors today, of historical fiction too, but there was only one Georgette Heyer!
Seema wrote: "There are great authors today, of historical fiction too, but there was only one Georgette Heyer! "Yes! I find it so hard to find a historical romance today that matches her wit and attention to detail. Once I read all the Georgette Heyers and began to look for other authors like her, I was astonished to find that there is nothing out there! If anybody knows of someone who does come close, let me know :)
Emily wrote:Yes! I find it so hard to find a historical romance today that matches her wit and..."
Absolutely! I started late on GH, but now I am wondering what will I do when I will have read them all! How am I to then feed my desire of more of such fantastic work as this!
Emily, have you read 'After Midnight by Diane Schute'? It is a historical fiction, and though I can't compare it to Georgette Heyer, but it is a good read. It has a sequel lined up this year or most probably in 2016.
I haven't! Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check it out :)
Emily wrote: "I haven't! Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check it out :)"Pleasure! It always feels good to discuss books with someone who can understand it!
Emily wrote: "Seema wrote: "There are great authors today, of historical fiction too, but there was only one Georgette Heyer! "Yes! I find it so hard to find a historical romance today that matches her wit and..."
Once I had read all of GH (well, not Roxhythe or the contemporary ones) and knew that there would be no more, I tried one of Jane Aiken Hodge's and found it pretty satisfactory--but I can't remember the title! (But I'm fairly sure it was published before 1980.) One little detail that I found amusing and mentioned to the friend who shared my enthusiasm for GH was that, when the heroine undertook to run away from home (or wherever she was then living) at night, she dressed as a man and rode astride, so that no one would recognize her. I thought, "But mightn't someone have recognized the horse?" My friend said, "Georgette Heyer would have thought of that."
MaryC wrote: "I thought, "But mightn't someone have recognized the horse?" My friend said, "Georgette Heyer would have thought of that.""I seriously laughed out loud at that. She so would have!
I find that when I want something with real period feel, historical mystery is a better genre to look for it in than historical romance. My favorite Regency-set historical mysteries are the Julian Kestrel series by Kate Ross, but she died relatively young and only wrote four of them (plus a short story or two). C.S. Harris's Sebastian St. Cyr mysteries are also good.
Great thought, Margaret! I haven't read anything in either of those two series, but (being a medievalist) I loved Brother Caedfael and found Sharan Newman's Catherine le Vendeur series a good successor--read the first Sister Fidelma novel and found her too much like Nancy Drew.
Margaret wrote: "I find that when I want something with real period feel, historical mystery is a better genre to look for it in than historical romance. My favorite Regency-set historical mysteries are the Julian..."The Kate Ross books are wonderful--it's such a shame that she died so young. I also really enjoyed Madeleine Robins's Sarah Tolerance books (Point of Honor, Petty Treason, and The Sleeping Partner) which are sort of Regency mystery noir-ish.
The closest I've found is the novels of Clare Darcy, they're not easy to find but you might enjoy them :)
Louise, i found one Clare Darcy at the library and I really liked it. Based on that experience, I ordered a couple of her other titles, but I haven't had a chance to read them.
Louise Sparrow wrote: "The closest I've found is the novels of Clare Darcy, they're not easy to find but you might enjoy them :)"Clare Darcy is like Georgette Heyer, light. I found all her books at the library. I really liked Jude Morgan for a contemporary author. If you want the humor, you need look no further than Barbara Metzger. Sherri Cobb South is pretty good. Regina Scott has moved on from Regencies but hers are well researched and well written. I also like Carola Dunn who isn't writing Regencies anymore and same with Marian Chesney aka Jennie Tremaine aka MC Beaton.
I would have liked a sequel to The Talisman Ring. I could see the characters getting involved in another adventure - perhaps rescuing french aristos from the revolution or something.
QNPoohBear wrote: "Louise Sparrow wrote: "The closest I've found is the novels of Clare Darcy, they're not easy to find but you might enjoy them :)"Clare Darcy is like Georgette Heyer, light. I found all her books ..."
Sherri Cobb South's books are such a fun read. I like her romances and her mysteries. I second QN's recommendation of her.
Emily wrote: "Seema wrote: "There are great authors today, of historical fiction too, but there was only one Georgette Heyer! "Yes! I find it so hard to find a historical romance today that matches her wit and..."
The most amusing heyer like novels I have found are a trilogy of fantasy novels set in a sort of alternative Regency England with magic. They are by Patricia C. Wrede and Caroline Stevermer. The first one is Sorcery and Cecelia, followed by The Grand Tour, then The Mislaid Magician.
Louise wrote: "The most amusing heyer like novels I have found are a trilogy of fantasy novels set in a sort of alternative Regency England with magic. They are by Patricia C. Wrede and Caroline Stevermer. The first one is Sorcery and Cecelia, followed by The Grand Tour, then The Mislaid Magician."I just LOVE Sorcery and Cecilia. It was described in the bookstore as "Harry Potter meets Jane Austen" so naturally I was hooked. I really enjoy the alternate Regency with magic worlds yet I hate high fantasy. Patricia C. Wrede's Dragons series is also amusing. They're written for a young teen audience but I read them in my 20s and enjoyed them.
Louise wrote: "I would have liked a sequel to The Talisman Ring. I could see the characters getting involved in another adventure - perhaps rescuing french aristos from the revolution or something."QNPoohBear, that is a marvelous idea, both to give us more time with the characters in "The Talisman Ring" and to make it a mystery. I love "Talisman Ring" and think the two couples make a marvelous team, however different they are from each other. I would certainly hope Sir Hugh wanders in and out as well. He is invaluable comic relief.
My acquaintance Carrie Bebris, who writes mysteries with Mr. and Mrs. Fitzwilliam Darcy as the main characters, said she chose to write mysteries because she wanted to create a "Pride and Prejudice" continuation without unraveling the Happy Ever After that made "Pride and Prejudice"e so satisfying. By making her books into mysteries, there could be compelling plots without needing to create a rift between Darcy and Elizabeth.
FWI: Here's why Carrie thought the Darcys would make good detectives (from www.carriebebris.com):
"Austen's works lend themselves well to the mystery genre, and as I contemplated the possibility of a mystery series based on Austen's novels, the Darcys emerged as natural protagonists. Though they would never think of themselves as "detectives," Elizabeth and Darcy make a great team when it comes to solving problems and piercing the armor of people they encounter. In Pride and Prejudice, Elizabeth is a sharp observer of human nature and foibles, a witty conversationalist, a woman who relies on her instincts. Darcy, in contrast, is a deductive reasoner and a man who knows how to move about in the world. She predicts her sister's scandalous elopement, and Darcy ferrets out the missing couple. And that was before they got together as a couple—only think what they could accomplish after. But not only do they complement each other intellectually, they have a wonderful dynamic between them that has captivated readers for two centuries. With their signature banter, they are just plain enjoyable to watch, and I thought the opportunity to spend more time with these characters—to see their quick intellect and hear their lively dialogue applied to cooperative endeavors—was too appealing to pass up. I hope readers agree."
Lori wrote: "Louise wrote: "I would have liked a sequel to The Talisman Ring. I could see the characters getting involved in another adventure - perhaps rescuing french aristos from the revolution or something..."Those sounds like good stories. having Elizabeth and Darcy as a husband/wife detective team is a great idea.
Something that gets Tristram riding ventre a terre.
Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
Black Sheep (other topics)The Foundling (other topics)
They Found Him Dead (other topics)
Duplicate Death (other topics)
The Unknown Ajax (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Jude Morgan (other topics)Barbara Metzger (other topics)
Sheri Cobb South (other topics)
Regina Scott (other topics)
Carola Dunn (other topics)
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Is it still more "appropriate" for men to use vulgarisms and swearings? I think it must be, because when a man swears around me, he invariably apologizes.
Which makes me smile.