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Turn Coat
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Turn Coat (Dresden Files #11), by Jim Butcher (Start Date: January 06, 2014)
@ ShoSho#1 – Very true!
#2 – Oh, did I let the cat out of the bag? I pressed something on my iPod earlier and all of a sudden I jumped to Chapter 34 or 35. I was pissed, as I heard something about Molly, too. Took me awhile to figure out I was far away from the chapters I was supposed to be listening to. Sorry!
#3 – Ah! Good thinking Agent 99.
#5 – And don’t forget smelly. LOL!
#6 – I was wondering if he is dead-dead, too! LOL! Yes, too important.
#7 – Yeah, usually good with animals = good person.
#8 – LOL! **claps hands in glee** Yay!
#9 – Oh, Craigslist has a bad rap here. One guy put an ad on it pretending to be his ex-girl-friend who wanted to be brutally – and I do mean brutally – beat up and raped. Both of them went to jail. Poor woman. They’ve (Craigslist’s) cleaned up their act some, but I still freaked when my brother-in-law wanted to put my husband’s tools for sale on-line. It is a scary world out there.
#10 – I agree; something was off in the conversation, but I don’t know what.
Lisa Kay wrote: "Oh, did I let the cat out of the bag? "#2 .No not really . We knew it was coming!
#9. I've had bad experiences with this sort of sites too! I hate it when hubby wants to sell or buy something using them. but he does it anyway!
I'm going off line to go read. Catch you tomorrow or later tonight. (((Cyber hugs.)))
Lisa Kay wrote: "I'm going off line to go read. Catch you tomorrow or later tonight. (((Cyber hugs.)))"(((cyber hugs)))
I'll start on chapter 11 in a bit.
ShoSho wrote: "Gisela wrote: "LOL! We've become good friends! I can't wait till this morning sickness passes. And Lord I'm already showing and not even 3 months yet. On to Harry...What do you think of the title..."
I was also thinking that the title had something to do with the (view spoiler) but the word "Turn coat" is also another word for "traitor" - so it could either refer to the traitor on the White Council or it could suggest that Morgan will turn on Harry at some point - he'd better NOT do that!
Lauren's Answers to Lisa Kay's Questions for chapters 1-101. I always love JB’s opening paragraph and opening chapter because they give us such wonderful clues to the overall story arch. And the title of the book always has a double meaning, too. Still, I’m at a loss as to what they could be yet. Well, yeah, Morgan seeking Harry out was quite a surprise; however, we figured we’d finally find out who the traitor on the White Council is in this one, right? What else could they all mean?
I hope we find out who the traitor is. This plot point has been going on for a while and it needs some closure.
2. Do you, like Harry, believe that Morgan is really being set-up for the fall? Or could he be the Turn Coat? Do you think Morgan could break the Laws of Magic? Also, good thing Morgan had the Summer Queen’s favor, though 48 hours comes fast.
Yes, I believe Morgan is being set up. There is no way Morgan would betray his principles for something as meager as money.
As to whether or not Morgan would break the laws of magic, I'd like to say no but I'm wondering if he would break them under the right circumstances...
3. What is with Harry’s migraines? Is Mab, Winter Queen of the Winter Court, messing with him again? That “summer sun…boiling the asphalt” doesn’t sound like Mab, though; could it be someone else? Of course, “pounding door” and pounding migraine work.
These migraines do not sound good - it could be that something is messing with him - but what? and why?
4. Love Waldo Butters; glad we got to see him. I had to laugh when he made Harry assist. As a nurse, I think the scene was well done. You?
Love Butters and that is a great scene! I know that medical examiners are not always doctors but I was she Butters was one, after all he has patched Harry up before...
5. I also liked the further explanation of a wizard’s Third Eye. Why did glimpsing Harry’s pursuer – a Native American Skinwalker?! – mess with his mind like that? (I’m pretty sure I couldn’t count by prime numbers like that. LOL!)
Harry's skill with numbers is definitely better than mine!
That whole third eye/skinwalker thing was very creepy
6. So, Harry retreats to Billy and Georgia’s place, but the Skinwalker comes after all of them, killing Kirby! I’ll admit I was surprised by this. And will Andi recover? Ugh.
Poor Harry! Now he has something new to feel guilty about...
7. Yay! Murphy’s “in.” But do you think Injun Joe – AKA “Listens-to-Wind” – is trustworthy?
Murphy's comment about betrayal is spot on, which suggests that it is going to be someone that Harry has believed in or trusted to a certain degree. So, no one is above suspicion not even Harry's previous allies like Injun Joe
8. What did you think of Mouse’s response to Harry’s warning about the Skinwalker or naagloshii? Think Mouse can handle him? Even if they gain more and more power?
We know Mouse is special but only time will tell if he can handle the Skinwalker
9. Thomas has such a funny earlier scene, with the accent and the white jag, and then such a serious one with his cousin, Madeline Raith, in Club Zero. Such a range of emotion. Yikes! Nevertheless, will there be future retaliation for Justine – and therefore Thomas – for that encounter? (BTW, I had to laugh over Justine explaining Craigslist to Harry.)
Yes, that whole encounter with Madeline was really intense. We have not seen the last of her - she's going to cause trouble for Justine, Thomas and Harry in some way.
10. I raised my eyebrows over Warden Anastasia Luccio tracking Harry to Club Zero and their subsequent conversation. What did you think? Is Morgan setting Harry up for the fall, or maybe he even believes Harry is the guilty one? (I have to admit that I look up Senior Councilman LaFortier again; I couldn’t remember exactly how he fit into the story.) LaFortier was the “sanctimonious jerk” who Harry suspects of voting against him when he was 16. Certainly motive for Harry to kill him, right? She seems like she’s riding the fence there, saying she believes Morgan is innocent, but then telling Harry he could be setting him up.
I had no problem with Luccio before now but she's beginning to make the hair on the back of my head stand up - I wonder if she has her own agenda? Maybe she is the "Turn Coat"? Or it could just be that I don't like Harry being in a relationship with her and not Murphy :0(
11. Also, was it Ebenezar who ordered the Wardens to shut Harry out? Or is Luccio lying? I’m pretty suspicious of her at this point, more so than the previous book.
Something fishy is going on here - why would Ebenezer keep Harry in the dark. I have no doubt that he doesn't believe Morgan is the traitor
@ShoSho#2. Hmmm... that's an interesting possibility. We know that the traitor has targeted Harry before. But how did he know Morgan would go to Harrry? After all, Morgan and Harry are not exactly friends...
#6. I didn't know there was a novella about Andi and Kirby. That does seem to suggest that Kirby may return but will he still be Kirby...
I'm also very wary about putting stuff online - there are some serious crazies out there...
I'm on chapter 12 now - I have my 3 hour commute today so questions will be up this evening when I get back from work :0)
Lauren wrote: ". But how did he know Morgan would go to Harrry? "Somehow put it in his mind or whoever and however helped him escape(I'm sure he didn't escape on his own) suggested to him.
The novella it's not about them but they play a big part. It's Harry's day off and he's suppose to have date day with Luccio but they show up at his door with a problem for him to solve.
@ Lauren#2 .True
#6.That's exactly what I thought,something more for him to feel guilty about.
#7.Like you I think the traitor is someone Harry trusts
#8.The name of the book has double meaning I'm sure what if the traitor is a shapeshifter . But I don't think it is Luccio
Lauren wrote: "I'm on chapter 12 now - I have my 3 hour commute today so questions will be up this evening when I get back from work :0)"I'm on chapter 16 ,I'll probably get to my second round by the time you post the Qs :D
@ Laura#2 – Good point about the “right circumstances.”
#4 – Yeah, I was thinking he just didn’t consider himself qualified to do a “pretty” job of stitching.
#6 – **sigh**
#7 – Good point; Murphy’s comment was definite foreshadowing.
#9 – Yeah, I’m sure of Madeline’s wrath, too.
#10 – LOL! Yes, I want him with Murphy, too, so that my color my opinion. Plus, Harry always gives women more leeway than he should and they take advantage.
#11 – Yeah, why would would Ebenezer do that?
Lauren's Questions for Chapters 11-2012. Molly is spot on about Morgan - he is an asshole!
13. Is Morgan right that Harry is going too easy on Molly?
14. The Merlin and by extension Morgan are so adamant that there is no black Council. Isn't it dangerous for them to be sticking their heads in the sand?
15. Argh! Talking spiders! Anyone thinking of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe when Harry walks into the nevernever crossroads? Kept expecting to see Mr. Tumnus.
16. Just a though but with the wardens all busy looking for Morgan what would happen if the vampires attacked?
17. Wow! Lucio would be the one to behead Morgan. There is something wrong with that picture. It would be like Ebenezer killing Harry which I suppose he would do if Harry turned bad.
18. I'm surprised Ebenezer didn't realize it was a setup before Harry hinted at it.
19. Hmm...thoughts on Peabody?
20. LaFortier died quite violently. Doesn't that suggest something personal?
21. Looks like Harry isn't the only one who thinks Morgan was set up. This must be the first time Harry and the Merlin agree in something! It must really kill the Merlin that he needs Harry's help to get his "balls out if the vice", lol!
22. The wizard politics are far more complicated than I originally thought. Things could get really bad.
23. According to Injun Joe, the needs if the many outweigh the needs if the few so Morgan may just be sacrificed for the greater good. Thoughts.
24. Any theories on why LaFortier didn't use magic or cast his death curse?
25. Murphy is SO kick-ass!!!
26. Oy! Where's Thomas?
27. Your were right Lisa Kay. Morgan used his favor with Titania to shield himself. Love the mention of Harry's donut, lol!
28. So if it wasn't Thomas or Titania, how did Binder know where Morgan was?
Edinburgh Castle in Edinburgh, Scotland, UK
Lauren’s Questions & Lisa Kay’s Answers for Chapters 11-20
12. Molly is spot on about Morgan - he is an asshole!
LMBO! True… well, at least a hard ass. Hate what he did to Molly – and on purpose! And I’m not ready to forgive him just because he offered to show Molly how to open the portal to the Nevernever. Love that Mouse was there to intervene – and so neutrally – between Morgan and Molly.
13. Is Morgan right that Harry is going too easy on Molly?
Hmmm. Tough call. Sometimes I think he talks to her too rough and other times I think he is just right. (Like before they got in the van; that was open and honest, but sweet.) Nevertheless, he could be too easy; I don’t know; I don’t know at what stage of development she should be at this point. Still, I think it struck a nerve with Harry.
14. The Merlin and by extension Morgan are so adamant that there is no Black Council. Isn't it dangerous for them to be sticking their heads in the sand?
Oh, definitely! Stubborn and stupid.
15. Argh! Talking spiders! Anyone thinking of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe when Harry walks into the Nevernever crossroads? Kept expecting to see Mr. Tumnus.
No, actually, I was thinking The Hobbit and Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. LOL!
16. Just a thought but with the Wardens all busy looking for Morgan what would happen if the vampires attacked?
Oh! Excellent point, Lauren… **smacks forehead** I didn’t even think of that!
17. Wow! Lucio would be the one to behead Morgan. There is something wrong with that picture. It would be like Ebenezer killing Harry which I suppose he would do if Harry turned bad.
Really. Eep!
18. I'm surprised Ebenezer didn't realize it was a setup before Harry hinted at it.
Me, too. You’d think he would, given his history.
19. Hmm...thoughts on Peabody?
He’s a sanctimonious little twerp? Don’t know if he’s anything more. But aren’t we just learning here that Peabody compiled the info that was in Erlking that cause all the issues in Dead Beat? So, now that you ask about him… it makes me think there could be something more to him.
20. LaFortier died quite violently. Doesn't that suggest something personal?
I would say so.
21. Looks like Harry isn't the only one who thinks Morgan was set up. This must be the first time Harry and the Merlin agree in something! It must really kill the Merlin that he needs Harry's help to get his "balls out if the vice", lol!
LOL! Yes, that surprised me, too… and I bet it does!
22. The wizard politics are far more complicated than I originally thought. Things could get really bad.
Totally agree with you.
23. According to Injun Joe, the needs of the many outweigh the needs if the few so Morgan may just be sacrificed for the greater good. Thoughts.
Other than that Spock said this is The Wrath of Khan (1982)? LOL! I could see his point, if a civil war really could break out.
24. Any theories on why LaFortier didn't use magic or cast his death curse?
Haven’t a clue. (Clever Murphy!) Was it because of who killed him? Or how?
25. Murphy is SO kick-ass!!!
LOL! I know! I just ♥Murphy! But, I was shocked she just double-taped those two Grey Suit guys after making sure they were bad on Harry’s say-so. The trust between these two continues to grow. So glad Harry has her to bounce ideas off of. And she got Binder. Cool.
26. Oy! Where's Thomas?
I don’t know, but I’m really very worried.
27. Your were right Lisa Kay. Morgan used his favor with Titania to shield himself. Love the mention of Harry's donut, lol!
Yes, but I didn’t figure it out by myself, it was an audio skip-ahead. Still, I had totally forgotten about the fact that that is how Harry was tracked. **smacks forehead** So, major points lost. Yes, the donut reference was priceless; I loved Molly trying to stifle her giggles, too.
28. So if it wasn't Thomas or Titania, how did Binder know where Morgan was?
Totally clueless here.
Also... no Bob so far?
I like your theories. I'm a bit behind but I hope to catch up. About the traitor, yes we'll find out the identity, now to mess with you, how do you know it's only one?
About the headaches, I wondered why Harry wasn't using the pain blocking techniques Lash taught him. And if he is and he's still in pain, then I don't like what it could mean for Harry. Annoyingly this is one of the details I can't remember.
Lauren's Questions for Chapters 11-2012. Molly is spot on about Morgan - he is an asshole!
That he is !
13. Is Morgan right that Harry is going too easy on Molly?
No I don't think he is easy on her. He just do it without the physical pain.He is really hard on her mentally .After the snow fight he got to the conclusion that Molly is not good with this kind of magic and never will be .So he is working with her with another method.
14. The Merlin and by extension Morgan are so adamant that there is no black Council. Isn't it dangerous for them to be sticking their heads in the sand?
Maybe it's humiliating for them to accept it and yes it's dangerous to stick their heads in the sand .The black council is out there whether they believe it or not. Isn't it weird that Morgan knew about the name Harry given them, The Black council ?
15. Argh! Talking spiders! Anyone thinking of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe when Harry walks into the nevernever crossroads? Kept expecting to see Mr. Tumnus.
haaahaaa no I didn't .But I haven't read the Narnia books so ...
16. Just a though but with the wardens all busy looking for Morgan what would happen if the vampires attacked?
Hmmm that could be one purpose for the set up , depending on who really did it
17. Wow! Lucio would be the one to behead Morgan. There is something wrong with that picture. It would be like Ebenezer killing Harry which I suppose he would do if Harry turned bad.
Or like Harry thought ,like him beheading Molly
18. I'm surprised Ebenezer didn't realize it was a setup before Harry hinted at it.
I wasn't! If it walks and talks and looks like a duck then it's duck .They were faced with obvious strong evidence all pointing to Morgan. There hadn't been any reason for them to believe otherwise and it shows that the other councillors don't trust Merlin and Morgan enough to believe they wouldn't do such a thing
19. Hmm...thoughts on Peabody?
At first he just seemed like a minor secondary character but then he kept coming back and then the mention of his book about the Erlking. He knows something or he is up to something and obviously everyone trusts him. Merlin doesn't want to know anybody to know about what Harry is doing ,still peabody is the one who hands him the file
20. LaFortier died quite violently. Doesn't that suggest something personal?
Hmmmmm didn't think of that
21. Looks like Harry isn't the only one who thinks Morgan was set up. This must be the first time Harry and the Merlin agree in something! It must really kill the Merlin that he needs Harry's help to get his "balls out if the vice", lol!
It's really interesting that Harry offered and Merlin accepted, I just hope it doesn't come back and bite Harry in the Ass
22. The wizard politics are far more complicated than I originally thought. Things could get really bad.
Yep and I have a bad feeling about Harry getting involved
23. According to Injun Joe, the needs if the many outweigh the needs if the few so Morgan may just be sacrificed for the greater good. Thoughts.
I didn't like Injun Joe here at all. He was saying even if they find the real killer ,Morgan is the one going down for it. This made me suspicious of him and I think that's what JM wants us to think.
24. Any theories on why LaFortier didn't use magic or cast his death curse?
The only thing we know that stops magic from working is water and no water there.But there must have been something that didn't let him use magic.I'm sure it hadn't been voluntary
25. Murphy is SO kick-ass!!!
Love Murphy ,I love it when Harry says she is 5 foot nothing.
26. Oy! Where's Thomas?
when he called ,I didn't think of Morgan , I thought he's somewhere else and has gotten into trouble with the vampires. then I remembered he was watching the storage unit. now that he's missing I can't help but think that phone call was so vague and Thomas might not have meant the grey suits at all
27. Your were right Lisa Kay. Morgan used his favor with Titania to shield himself. Love the mention of Harry's donut, lol!
I'm going to Krispy kreme after work to buy donuts ! too much talk of donuts!!!!
28. So if it wasn't Thomas or Titania, how did Binder know where Morgan was?
hmmmmm I have this crazy idea. What if La fortier was the traitor and Injun jo or Rashid found out about and killed him and set up this whole thing from framing Morgan to involving Harry to achieve an end game? That's how Binder found Morgan. Too crazy I know :D
Did you notice that Harry has a Navajo rug in his house?
I just woke up answered the Qs so I can continue listening. Don't read it until I can edit it :D
ShoSho wrote: "I just woke up answered the Qs so I can continue listening. Don't read it until I can edit it :D"Too late, lol!
Be back to comment on answers in a sec.
@Lisa Kay#12 - Go Mighty Mouse! I love how he sits on people to keep them quiet, lol!
#15 - Oooh! Didn't think of Chamber of Secrets but spiders definitely!
Re - No Bob ... hmmm, where is his smuttiness?
@ShoSho#19 - Ditto! I wasn't really thinking about him as anything but a background characters but then he showed up again...and again..., which made me wonder if he wasn't up to something with all those documents he has the senior council members signing. I hope they are reading them first!
#23 - I was expecting more from Injun Joe. Kinda disappointed in him here...
#26 - I didn't think of that and just assumed he was talking about the grey suit people. Now I'm thinking that he meant someone or something else. Maybe Madeline has her nasty hands on him...
Yeah, too late, ShoSho. But, I'll read them again later and respond then.
Lauren wrote: "I hope they are reading them first!"Huh that's what I thought! what if he is making him sign stuff that aren't what he says they are!
You can read it now :D
Thanks for the pics ,LK! I'm reading The Thistle and the Rose , it gave me good visuals about that book too!The setting is scotland .
@ Lisa Kay#19 .LMAO
#25.me too , I was excpeting her to hesitate or at least feel bad about it ,like when they attacked the black court vampire nest.
#27 .I had forgotten too
@ ShoSho#13 – Yes, I like that he is trying another method; everyone learns differently, and I guess this applies to magic, too! ☺
#14 – Oh, I think there are enough rumors out there that Morgan would know the name. But, you are right – it is dangerous pride that is keeping them from pulling their heads out of the sand.
#16 – Oh, good point.
#19 – Yeah, good for Lauren for nudging us to reconsider Peabody. That’s what I love about “buddy reads.”
#21 – Ditto!
#23 – Yes, but now I’m reconsidering his comment in regards to Gisela’s comment about the number of people involved.
#25 & #27 – ☺
#28 – No, I didn’t notice that. Huh.
(Response to my #27 – Aww. You’re just making me feel good.)
Random Q, how old is Harry? I think he's mid-thirties maybe early forties. What about you?
Gisela wrote: "Random Q, how old is Harry? I think he's mid-thirties maybe early forties. What about you?"He's not 40 yet , when the series began he was 26 ,he must be around 36 now.
Thanks. I knew he was mid twenties at the beginning and with almost a year between books that'd make him 36-38.
Did you read Ch. 35 yet?
Gisela wrote: "Did you read Ch. 35 yet?"No I have stopped at the end of chapter 29 and I'm waiting for the next set of qs
Wow! I didn't realize that Harry was so young in the first book. I think that James' Marsters' voice makes him sound older so I just thought he was in his mid-30s at the beginning which would make him early 40s now. Now I know that he is younger. I'm on chapter 24 now. No commute so its a slow listening day for me :0(
A white Rolls Royce Silver Wraith (1947)
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 21-29
29. I love Toot-toot! LOL! And Harry’s moniker of “lord of pizza.” Love that JB has put this loveable character in with all these dark, evil villains. So, what did you think of Vince Graver – and Molly’s intervention and date?!
30. We don’t see Harry displaying his wizarding abilities in front of ordinary humans often. What you think of his encounter with Evelyn Derek? The psychic interdiction? The soulgaze? (And who ran from Harry earlier in his life?) A White Court Vampire with silver eyes? And then Harry’s “Dorme, dormius.” (Sleep, lie.)
31. Another bizarre tableau for Harry to return home to! I wasn’t expecting Mouse at Luccio’s neck! A lot is revealed in this scene: Luccio and Morgan have somewhat of a past (even more reason for him to hate Harry – did you feel sorry for him, even a little?); Molly was able to ‘blind’ Luccio; I don’t for a moment buy Luccio thinking Morgan and Molly had done away with Harry! Comments.
And even more happens in the next chapters…here are some Qs on them, not necessarily in order.
32. Lara Raith (whose eyes are grey with flecks of periwinkle blue), pleads ignorance of everything thus far; do you believe her? Then ‘temporarily’ joins forces with Harry to fight the skinwalker – AKA “Shagnasty”! I did agree with her about what she said on how to control someone – give them what they want, need… BTW, just when I think Lara might be more than a tentative ally, she reveals her plans for her wounded soldiers. Eep! Such a cold-hearted bitch. Comments.
33. Justine seems injured pretty bad; will she be okay? But she let the cat out of the bag! Eep!
34. Harry survives quite a far fall – is there something suspicious about that, or is he just lucky?
35. Did we know about Harry’s eight silver rings before this?
36. But the skinwalker isn’t there to kill them, but to trade Thomas for Morgan! Ack! My Thomas is in real danger! Why does the Shagnasty want Morgan so much?
37. Madeline (whose eyes I don’t know the color of) is suspicious due to her absence. Is she in on it all, or a victim?
38. Crap. Now Luccio knows Thomas is Harry’s brother. That can’t be good. Will she keep quite? What did you think about what she said about her family? About Harry’s mother, Margaret, being a threat to the Laws of Magic? (And Harry sure has her mouth-off trait.) About governments?
39. Do you think the Rolls Royce Silver Wraith will survive Harry driving it?
40. Yay! We have a scene with Bob! He tells us that the naagloshii were originally messengers for the Holy People a millennia ago, but they stayed behind and corrupted their power...and that Harry won’t have much luck tracking one of them. Also, Bob has no clue as to why LaFortier didn’t throw any magic around when he died. Do you?
Lauren's Answers to Lisa Kay's Questions for Chapters 21-2929. I love Toot-toot! LOL! And Harry’s moniker of “lord of pizza.” Love that JB has put this loveable character in with all these dark, evil villains. So, what did you think of Vince Graver – and Molly’s intervention and date?!
Love James Masters' voice for Toot-Toot. It makes him all the more adorable.
Vince was interesting. I wonder if we will be seeing more of him. Morgan is seriously lacking in the imagination when it comes to the opposite sex - his jumping to the wrong conclusion when Molly says she'll convince Vince to talk was so typical of him.
30. We don’t see Harry displaying his wizarding abilities in front of ordinary humans often. What you think of his encounter with Evelyn Derek? The psychic interdiction? The soulgaze? (And who ran from Harry earlier in his life?) A White Court Vampire with silver eyes? And then Harry’s “Dorme, dormius.” (Sleep, lie.)
I felt sorry for the Evelyn by the end of this scene and suspected Madeline immediately
31. Another bizarre tableau for Harry to return home to! I wasn’t expecting Mouse at Luccio’s neck! A lot is revealed in this scene: Luccio and Morgan have somewhat of a past (even more reason for him to hate Harry – did you feel sorry for him, even a little?); Molly was able to ‘blind’ Luccio; I don’t for a moment buy Luccio thinking Morgan and Molly had done away with Harry! Comments.
Morgan's feelings for Luccio were surprising and yes, I felt sorry for hi. He has given up a lot for his job as a warden.
I also didn't believe Luccio's claim that she believed Morgan and Molly were in cahoots. She knows Morgan better than that!
And even more happens in the next chapters…here are some Qs on them, not necessarily in order.
32. Lara Raith (whose eyes are grey with flecks of periwinkle blue), pleads ignorance of everything thus far; do you believe her? Then ‘temporarily’ joins forces with Harry to fight the skinwalker – AKA “Shagnasty”! I did agree with her about what she said on how to control someone – give them what they want, need… BTW, just when I think Lara might be more than a tentative ally, she reveals her plans for her wounded soldiers. Eep! Such a cold-hearted bitch. Comments.
Lara is evil! She makes my skin crawl and it is obvious that she realizes Harry is no longer protected by his love for Susan. She has that sly smile there when she sees him with Luccio - *shudder*
33. Justine seems injured pretty bad; will she be okay? But she let the cat out of the bag! Eep!
Yes, Justine did let the cat out - Harry's going to have some 'splainen' to do...
34. Harry survives quite a far fall – is there something suspicious about that, or is he just lucky?
Umm...lucky... *shrug*. Not sure that term applies to Harry
35. Did we know about Harry’s eight silver rings before this?
We have heard about his rings before but I thought there were only three...
36. But the skinwalker isn’t there to kill them, but to trade Thomas for Morgan! Ack! My Thomas is in real danger! Why does the Shagnasty want Morgan so much?
I think the Shagnasty is working for whoever killed LaFortier and that person wants Morgan to take the fall
37. Madeline (whose eyes I don’t know the color of) is suspicious due to her absence. Is she in on it all, or a victim?
She's definitely in on it but not the main villain
38. Crap. Now Luccio knows Thomas is Harry’s brother. That can’t be good. Will she keep quite? What did you think about what she said about her family? About Harry’s mother, Margaret, being a threat to the Laws of Magic? (And Harry sure has her mouth-off trait.) About governments?
Not sure if she will keep quiet but I do know that if she doesn't, that's the end of her relationship with Harry - or at least it should be!
It is sad that she isn't close to the descendents of her siblings but perhaps it is the same as Morgan not wanting to get close to people so as not the endanger them
39. Do you think the Rolls Royce Silver Wraith will survive Harry driving it?
I hope so :0)
40. Yay! We have a scene with Bob! He tells us that the naagloshii were originally messengers for the Holy People a millennia ago, but they stayed behind and corrupted their power...and that Harry won’t have much luck tracking one of them. Also, Bob has no clue as to why LaFortier didn’t throw any magic around when he died. Do you?
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 21-29 29. I love Toot-toot! LOL! And Harry’s moniker of “lord of pizza.” Love that JB has put this loveable character in with all these dark, evil villains. So, what did you think of Vince Graver – and Molly’s intervention and date?!
He's a great character ,I love him too.I want to know why he is getting bigger and bigger .
I don't think the date would go anywhere but I'm sure we'll see more of graver. He seemed like someone who would do the "right thing".
30. We don’t see Harry displaying his wizarding abilities in front of ordinary humans often. What you think of his encounter with Evelyn Derek? The psychic interdiction? The soulgaze? (And who ran from Harry earlier in his life?) A White Court Vampire with silver eyes? And then Harry’s “Dorme, dormius.” (Sleep, lie.)
No we don't see it often ,I was trying real hard to remember if there was any rules against it.
I wish I could do a soulgaze with Harry :D I really want to know what other people see when they look into his soul!
31. Another bizarre tableau for Harry to return home to! I wasn’t expecting Mouse at Luccio’s neck! A lot is revealed in this scene: Luccio and Morgan have somewhat of a past (even more reason for him to hate Harry – did you feel sorry for him, even a little?); Molly was able to ‘blind’ Luccio; I don’t for a moment buy Luccio thinking Morgan and Molly had done away with Harry! Comments.
I felt really sorry for him. He hasn't always been this person . But because of the path he had chosen and the role he has as a warden he has become this asshole so I felt sorry for him.
What Luccio she had thought was so far fetched ,how on earth did she get to that conclusion. I'm not sure if she is lying or not.
And even more happens in the next chapters…here are some Qs on them, not necessarily in order.
32. Lara Raith (whose eyes are grey with flecks of periwinkle blue), pleads ignorance of everything thus far; do you believe her? Then ‘temporarily’ joins forces with Harry to fight the skinwalker – AKA “Shagnasty”! I did agree with her about what she said on how to control someone – give them what they want, need… BTW, just when I think Lara might be more than a tentative ally, she reveals her plans for her wounded soldiers. Eep! Such a cold-hearted bitch. Comments.
I believe that Lara doesn't know about the lawyer and the PI but not everything she says is true.
Yikes ! She just divided the injured between her sisters and herself. What really stood out for me was the gaurd who was trying to hide his limp.
33. Justine seems injured pretty bad; will she be okay? But she let the cat out of the bag! Eep!
Yes she will. I was expecting something like that it was time for Luccio to know some secrets. Only Bob's left now.
34. Harry survives quite a far fall – is there something suspicious about that, or is he just lucky?
I thought he didn't die simply because the shagnasty didn't want him dead .Do you mean some higher power helped him survive?
35. Did we know about Harry’s eight silver rings before this?
Nope ,I didn't have them in my mental image of Harry . now they've been added . they don't look good and manly though
36. But the skinwalker isn’t there to kill them, but to trade Thomas for Morgan! Ack! My Thomas is in real danger! Why does the Shagnasty want Morgan so much?
Save Thomas please,I'm worried about him. I don't know why it wants Morgan , it must be working for someone else . and the fact that he's an Indian creature makes the whole thing curios
37. Madeline (whose eyes I don’t know the color of) is suspicious due to her absence. Is she in on it all, or a victim?
No not a victim and I'm sure she is involved but might not know the whole story ,someone got her involved without telling her the whole story.
38. Crap. Now Luccio knows Thomas is Harry’s brother. That can’t be good. Will she keep quite? What did you think about what she said about her family? About Harry’s mother, Margaret, being a threat to the Laws of Magic? (And Harry sure has her mouth-off trait.) About governments?
This can't be good .She will tell someone eventually .
I felt sorry for her that she doesn't have any family and the ones she has, don't know her.
His mother is very weird person !!!!(don't have much time now I'll say more about this later , I have to run now )
39. Do you think the Rolls Royce Silver Wraith will survive Harry driving it?
Nope not a chance
40. Yay! We have a scene with Bob! He tells us that the naagloshii were originally messengers for the Holy People a millennia ago, but they stayed behind and corrupted their power...and that Harry won’t have much luck tracking one of them. Also, Bob has no clue as to why LaFortier didn’t throw any magic around when he died. Do you?
I have no clue why he hasn't used magic .
just another theory is it possible that LaFortier has faked him death?
I'm having a crazy day ,I hope it calms down a bit and I can come back and comment on lauren's answers in an hour or so
@Lauren#29.I love his voice too, it makes me happy :D
#32.Yep that look she gave Harry ,not good at all!
#34. heeeheee !No he is not lucky !
Can I do the next set of qs instead of the last one? by the rate we are going I have to listen to the last part of the book on the plane and I won't have time to do the last set
Lauren I hope you haven't started on the Qs, cause I'm going to post mine in a bit :D
ShoSho's Questions for chapter 30-3741.I guess that’s it ,Kirby is really dead. Do you think Billy is right to ask for more information before getting involved? Do you think Harry will do it?
42.I liked it how Harry got Vance to follow Binder , I’m really liking Vance. He seems super smart and much better that Harry in detective work :D
43.From the conversation between Madeline and Binder ,I get that the puppet master wants Morgan to be returned to the wardens. Did anything else stood out for you? Do you have any suspects after that? Did you connect the “Cleaning “reference later?
44.Awww that conversation between Harry and Murphy about going out in style and holding each other’s hand. It was so comforting for Harry. What did you think of Harry’s options if he wanted to hide from the council, Mab or Lara ?
45. What did you think of about Murphy’s idea of the Harry’s problem with order and procedures? I don’t know what to make of it really! One thing is for certain though, there are some good reasons that she is good cop and one of them is her way of thinking and getting to conclusions.
46.I think the light flashed in my head at the same time as Harry , there answer is the Island . We knew that this island would play a very important role in his future . What do you think will happen? I’m waiting for something epic to happen.
47.The crazy man shot Mouse , his level of assholeness just went up a few notches IMO! It doesn’t matter that Molly was right or wrong in what she was doing ,but shooting her? Nope that’s just not the way to stop her. Comments.
48.I had to laugh at Mouse acting more injured that he really was and Harry calling him Denzel. What did harry want Mouse to do? What is more important than finding Thomas at this point?
49.So someone has tempered with Luccio’s head ,that’s probably the reason she had thought Molly and Morgan had done away with Harry and she was going to kill them. How do you feel about her now? What would happen to Molly now that she has broken the Law again?
50.I’m hung on that kiss between harry and Murphy and the “I love you”. I don’t know how to interpret it . Do you?
51. What did you think of sanctum invocation? Was it what you expected it to be? What did it mean that he named the Island ?and it was very handy that it was an Intellectus.
52.The 3 phone calls that harry made . To Lara , to Thomas and the skinwalker and finally to the council . Any comments? who is the informant he mentioned in his message to the members of the senior council ?
@ Lauren#29 – Oh, definitely! Marter’s voice is perfect for the little dude. Yes, Morgan is pretty quick to paint Molly with an evil brush.
#30 – JB did a nice job of making me switch from not liking her to feeling bad for her.
#31 – I felt for him, too. Sad. And made me even more suspicious of Luccio; I don’t think she handled that scene well. Very patronizing.
#32 – Oh, yes. Evil, evil, evil. BTW, I only meant she might ally with Harry politically, not sexually. **shudders too**
#34 – LMBO! No, he’s not lucky-lucky. I just wonder if there’s some charm – maybe from the fae or his mother – that is keeping him from dying in extreme situations like that.
#35 – Hmmm… I’d be stretching it, if I said I vaguely remember them.
#36 – Got it.
#38 – I would hope so!
#39 – I have my doubts.
@ ShoSho#29 – Too much pizza? LOL! Kidding aside, good question.
#30 – Me, too. Ah, bit of a crush on Harry, hmmm? Does your husband know?
#31 – I think she’s lying.
#32 – Oh, yeah…that guard stood out to me, too! Poor dude.
#33 – You mean Bob doesn’t know Thomas is Harry’s brother? Really? I didn’t catch that at all.
#34 – Yes, something magical or fae. Just a hunch; I’m probably way out in left field.
#35 – LMBO! They’re big and bulky and masculine.
#36 – Hmmm… not response to the term “my” Thomas, I notice. ☺
#37 – So, Madeline’s clueless; I good with that.
#38 – No. Can’t be good. In fact, I think it is very, very bad. I didn’t like what she said about family; it was like she was saying that so he wouldn’t trust Thomas, that Thomas would fail him.
#39 – I’m with you.
#40 – Ohhhhh! Interesting.
Lisa Kay wrote: "@ ShoSho#29 – Too much pizza? LOL! Kidding aside, good question.
#30 – Me, too. Ah, bit of a crush on Harry, hmmm? Does your husband know?
#31 – I think she’s lying.
#32 – Oh, yeah…that g..."
#30 he doesn't need to know :D
#33 no I meant that luccio doesn't know about Bob! Bob knows about Thomas .
#35. I'll try see them as masculine!
#36. Well... I was going to say " save my Thomas pls# but I thought to leave for you and take Harry
#37. Not clueless but doesn't know everything
Btw I'll do next set too
Responses to ShoSho's reponses to me...Post #98
#30 - LMBO!
#33 - Ah! I was baffled by that and scratching my head. Thanks for clearing that up.
#36 - Nope. Sorry. I want them both. ☺
#37 - Got it.
Romance Lovers for the Challenge-Impaired
Books mentioned in this topic
The Thistle and the Rose (other topics)Turn Coat (other topics)
1. I always love JB’s opening paragraph and opening chapter because they give us such wonderful clues to the overall story arch. And the title of the book always has a double meaning, too. Still, I’m at a loss as to what they could be yet. Well, yeah, Morgan seeking Harry out was quite a surprise; however, we figured we’d finally find out who the traitor on the White Council is in this one, right? What else could they all mean?
I think we should know who the traitor is by the end of this book ,this traitor has been acting undetected for a long time now!
2. Do you, like Harry, believe that Morgan is really being set-up for the fall? Or could he be the Turn Coat? Do you think Morgan could break the Laws of Magic? Also, good thing Morgan had the Summer Queen’s favor, though 48 hours comes fast.
Yes Morgan has been set up , but I think the target is not Morgan but Harry. Maybe whoever killed that guy ,provided a way for Morgan to scape and somehow sent him to Harry . I don't think Morgan would break the Laws but he would do anything if he thought Harry was guilty. Is he going to use the favor in this book?!hhmmm that should be intresting
3. What is with Harry’s migraines? Is Mab, Winter Queen of the Winter Court, messing with him again? That “summer sun…boiling the asphalt” doesn’t sound like Mab, though; could it be someone else? Of course, “pounding door” and pounding migraine work.
I thought the headaches were something significant. Something bad is messing with Harry. In the previous book it was cold and the bad guy was the Summer Queen . maybe in this one it'd be the opposite !
4. Love Waldo Butters; glad we got to see him. I had to laugh when he made Harry assist. As a nurse, I think the scene was well done. You?
I liked it , I was waiting and laughing before Butters started protesting that he is not a doctor
5. I also liked the further explanation of a wizard’s Third Eye. Why did glimpsing Harry’s pursuer – a Native American Skinwalker?! – mess with his mind like that? (I’m pretty sure I couldn’t count by prime numbers like that. LOL!)
I can't either , if I try very hard I might get to 200s but not more than that. That was a very scary glimpse of the skinwalker . He is usually effected by what he sees when he uses his third eye .This creature must have been so rotten and scary to mess with him like that
6. So, Harry retreats to Billy and Georgia’s place, but the Skinwalker comes after all of them, killing Kirby! I’ll admit I was surprised by this. And will Andi recover? Ugh.
I was really surprised that Kirby got dead. I don't think he's dead dead ! There will be something more. There is a short novella between this book and the previous one with Andy and Kirby in it. That's why I think they are too important to just die like that
7. Yay! Murphy’s “in.” But do you think Injun Joe – AKA “Listens-to-Wind” – is trustworthy?
I like to think he is! In most books the American-Indian people are good .Harry thinks because he is good with animal so he can't be a bad person but nobody in this series is that good .Sooo he might not be as trustworthy as Harry thinks he is!
8. What did you think of Mouse’s response to Harry’s warning about the Skinwalker or naagloshii? Think Mouse can handle him? Even if they gain more and more power?
I thought Mouse knew exactly what the skinwalker is and that he can deal with the skinwalker; Mighty Magic dog that he is !
9. Thomas has such a funny earlier scene, with the accent and the white jag, and then such a serious one with his cousin, Madeline Raith, in Club Zero. Such a range of emotion. Yikes! Nevertheless, will there be future retaliation for Justine – and therefore Thomas – for that encounter? (BTW, I had to laugh over Justine explaining Craigslist to Harry.)
The explanation about true love and how it hurts the white vampire and the fact that it's not a simple straight forward thing might be just solution for them to be together . I think Madeline will do something bad to Justine ,it is set up that way . I hadn't heard about Craigslist either :D
10. I raised my eyebrows over Warden Anastasia Luccio tracking Harry to Club Zero and their subsequent conversation. What did you think? Is Morgan setting Harry up for the fall, or maybe he even believes Harry is the guilty one? (I have to admit that I look up Senior Councilman LaFortier again; I couldn’t remember exactly how he fit into the story.) LaFortier was the “sanctimonious jerk” who Harry suspects of voting against him when he was 16. Certainly motive for Harry to kill him, right? She seems like she’s riding the fence there, saying she believes Morgan is innocent, but then telling Harry he could be setting him up.
That was suspicious. I don't trust Morgan to not betray Harry ,he is capable of setting Harry up . during that whole encounter and conversation something was nagging at me .There was something wrong not sure what but I don't think Luccio was honest about everything she said , maybe some but not all!
11. Also, was it Ebenezar who ordered the Wardens to shut Harry out? Or is Luccio lying? I’m pretty suspicious of her at this point, more so than the previous book.
Me too . I think they'll break up in this book for one reason or another