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Dos and don'ts of promoting on Goodreads groups
Do read each group's rules for self promotion. Post only where specified by group rules.
I really don't like fly by posts.
Perhaps you could explain what you feel constitutes a fly by post Rosemary?
I mean a random dropped promotion from an author that has never made any attempt to engage with us as a group. You just know that they've copied the same thing over a number of groups and used a scatter gun approach. Don't like it :(Chat with us, authors!
Has anyone ever bought a book due to such a post?
Mention a book only when it is appropriate to the conversation. Do not twist the conversation just to get a reference to your book in. Ask not what the forum can do for you....Oh, and don't p*ss off Patti.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Has anyone ever bought a book due to such a post?"Probably not (I know I haven't) I will tend to ignore long posts with lots of links particularly if it appears from a quick glance that
1. It is someone I haven't heard of (a quick hover over their name reveals how many times they have posted in this group)
2. The post is a long review/blurb
3. The post is in the middle of a topic which has nothing to do with book promotions (ie the daily chat thread)
4. The post only mentions the price in dollars and the book details are only for the .com site
To paraphrase that quintessential marketing genius, Al Capone: "You can get further with a kind word and an Amazon link than you can with an Amazon link alone."Don't treat groups as a database of stooges or mindless drones who exist only to buy your book. Each member is a beautiful, precious and unique snowflake who, moreover, doesn't know you, has never heard of you, will live a long and happy life even if they never touch your book, and doesn't owe you a living.
Don't post enormous blurbs, running into 20 plus lines of text.No one will ever read it.
Short and snappy, and if it's funny even better
I propose the following standard template for all book promotion:"I've written a tolerable book that my friends like, but I have no marketing budget. It is called [yourtitlehere]. You can buy it [yourlinkhere]. Please help subsidise my next bowl of gruel."
Andrew wrote: "I propose the following standard template for all book promotion:"I've written a tolerable book that my friends like, but I have no marketing budget. It is called [yourtitlehere]. You can buy it ..."
I do like that! A template for us all, I feel :-)
Andrew wrote: "I propose the following standard template for all book promotion:"I've written a tolerable book that my friends like, but I have no marketing budget. It is called [yourtitlehere]. You can buy it ..."
This actually has pretty well everything you need, it's short, self deprecatingly humorous and tells us what we need to know :-)
I agree. Then authors can move onto the truly important job of being contributing members of the group.
On topic, please.I'm really hoping for this to alleviate the number of gaffes that could be made, so let's please keep it as useful as possible. :)
Looking at things totally dispassionately, in any group there are only so many people who will be interested in your book.So 'spamming' the group or doing a 'drive-by' will only get a proportion of them.
But if you interact with the group and make friends, not only do you learn (if my writing has improved in the last couple of years a lot of it is due to feedback and help I've got here) but the people who wouldn't read your genre might recommend you to friends of theirs who do, so you reach people who aren't even group members.
Then again, it never hurts to have more friends and to be there when they're having a bad day, because they'll be there when the midden hits the windmill for you ;-)
If group offers an area for promotion, that is where the promotion should occur and not in a general discussion about, say coffee, for instance. (unless you wrote a book about coffee; then you might mention you wrote a book about coffee and move on.) There is a time and place for everything and authors who constantly promote their books in every conversation get annoying quite quickly.
Andrew wrote: "To paraphrase that quintessential marketing genius, Al Capone: "You can get further with a kind word and an Amazon link than you can with an Amazon link alone."Don't treat groups as a database of..."
I thought Al Capone said, "Buy my book or I'll have one of my stooges break your legs, Nitty."
None of the don'ts listed here sell books anyway. Drive-bys and shameless plugs just alienate people who then swear off ever buying any of your books. But Al Capone wouldn't have had any of these problems had he written a book, because he already had name recognition.
We're more likely to visit an author thread of an author who participates in the rest of the group as well. We have so many author threads on this site that it's impossible to keep up with all of them properly.
One more thing that will put me off buying a person's book is if they spam my message box. I have no problem with an author that I know sending me a message to let me know they have a new book out, thanking me for reading/reviewing their book or are offering one of their books at a special price, but the reason I changed my privacy settings so that only friends can message me, was receiving spam book blurbs from authors.
Definitely the fast track to my "authors to be avoided" list.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Has anyone ever bought a book due to such a post?"No. The books I've picked up from the group have all been because I've recognised the name of the author from their posts and have been intrigued, impressed and/or aroused by their musings on bacon in those posts to have a punt on their book.
David wrote: "I thought Al Capone said, "Buy my book or I'll have one of my stooges break your legs, Nitty..."Actually, I think that could have been Stephen Leather... but quite possibly posting under Al Capone's name ;)
Back on track a bit, I'd suggest that authors who pester other authors with dodgy review-swapping, like-swapping, general endorsement-swapping schemes should look at their lives. Perhaps it's because I was quite high in the reviewer rankings myself at one point last year, but I've had messages basically asking inviting me to get round group restrictions on promotion by plugging another author's books in discussion threads, in exchange for a reciprocal arrangement.
(these messages were not from any authors active in this group, I hasten to stress)
There really are some 'authors' out there for whom 'ethics' is just a lisping county east of London.
Unfortunately I'm not surprised by that Andrew.I've had one or two (or more) dodgy requests over the years as well.
My replies can be rather sweary. Giving them a link to this thread would probably be better. :)
From what I've seen in various articles a round the web too, none of this constant self-promotion, gaming the system or splurging your book around all and sundry actually works.As people in this thread have said, it is more likely to put people off you and your books, than to garner any readers.
When I used to do Twitter, there was nothing that would make me unfollow someone faster than endless book promoting tweets.
So yes some kind of thread saying it is more about conversation and interaction rather than selling and promoting would be good.
Jim wrote: "Looking at things totally dispassionately, in any group there are only so many people who will be interested in your book.So 'spamming' the group or doing a 'drive-by' will only get a proportion o..."
I'm a first-time novelist who's new to this group -- and the entire Goodreads experience. It helps tremendously when groups such as this one provides an area where authors can promote their works, and rules to abide by. (I'm not defending the drive-bys and their lack of etiquette. But authors are here because they have books they think you, as avid readers, might be interested in. And if you are new to the group like I am, your initial post may seem like a drive-by, especially since I've written a holiday story and have limited time to promote [see, now it appears like I'm doing a drive-by promotion.])
I truly like the idea of a general author thread under which everything book-related can be posted. But if I sent "friend" requests to established members, won't they feel as though I'm using them to promote? Thanks for the feedback.
Robert - never join a group with the sole intention of promoting your work.Post in the Introduce yourself thread - all groups have one. If others before you have written, "Hi! I'm Algie, and I've written 'Bleugh - the Greatest Novel Ever' and people seem to accept it, then by all means mention your own book. Often, though, it's better to give a little info about where you're from, what you like to read, and what your interests are, rather than about your book.
Post in the What's Your Favourite Film/Cheese/Wine/ Dinosaur thread before you start your author/promotion thread (in the RIGHT PLACE). That way people can get to know you, and realise you're not just a drive-by spammer.
It's about basic courtesy. It may take a while for your efforts to bear fruit - but you won't have a harvest at all if you rush in everywhere doing nothing but shout about yourself and your book.
Lynda wrote: "Robert - never join a group with the sole intention of promoting your work.Post in the Introduce yourself thread - all groups have one. If others before you have written, "Hi! I'm Algie, and I've..."
Thanks for the advice, Lynda. I will take it to heart. I did try to personalize my promotion in my "Meet the Authors" thread (maybe not so successfully). What drew me here is your group's interest in ebooks for the Kindle, and my admiration for Dickens' A CHRISTMAS CAROL, which I still think is the best holiday novel yet (which I also mentioned), and has long been part of a family tradition (both the reading of and watching of [the Reginald Owen version]). I do watch for posting notices (as I did with yours), and will join in on general discussions when possible.
Thanks again.
Actually taking part in discussions like this helps Robert ;-)Then wander across to the Morning thread and just fritter your time away in idle chat for a while :-)
Andrew wrote: "Actually, I think that could have been Stephen Leather... "Had to look up Stephen Leather. I console myself that he's just not well-known on this side of the pond. That's better than admitting I'm an illiterate lout.
Back on track, asking people to read and/or review your book is just generally a bad idea unless they specifically post somewhere that they are open to such requests. Even then, you'll just be one of hundreds to thousands of authors to respond. The best advice I can give is...write a good book, edit the heck out of it, make it available and put some links to it in the places where moderators say it's okay, and hope some people read and enjoy it. Then get to writing your next book.
David wrote: "Andrew wrote: "Actually, I think that could have been Stephen Leather... "Had to look up Stephen Leather. I console myself that he's just not well-known on this side of the pond. That's better th..."
If you'd seen him at work on 'MOA' on Amazon you might reconsider your opinion :-)
I couldn't possibly commentPerhaps there ought to be an emoticon at this point :-)
Jim wrote: "Actually taking part in discussions like this helps Robert ;-)Then wander across to the Morning thread and just fritter your time away in idle chat for a while :-)"
Yes, thanks, Jim. See, I have been watching (and learning). I will post something tomorrow for general discussion. Excuse my obsession with Christmas, but it truly is a special time for me (lots of personal reasons), and I'd love to get your group's opinion of Christmas in general (and whether or not Mr. Dickens' tale is still widely read and celebrated). How's that for tipping my hand?
David wrote: "Andrew wrote: "Actually, I think that could have been Stephen Leather... "Had to look up Stephen Leather. I console myself that he's just not well-known on this side of the pond. That's better th..."
And thanks to you as well, David. I truly believe in the "write a good book" advice. Never could understand, outside of business reasons, how some authors can crank out books in one year. It took me almost six for mine (admittedly, working part-time on it). Even writing full-time, I just can't see how a good book can be written in one year. I strongly believe in the rewriting process -- and I would never show anyone my first draft.
Robert, as a counter to your argument I would offer in evidence that the first eight of Sir Terry's books came out at the rate of 2 per year. And he held down a full time job until after Mort came out.
I think it depends entirely on the writer. Some have lives and it probably reduces word count :-)
Jim wrote: "I think it depends entirely on the writer. Some have lives and it probably reduces word count :-)"Some writers have lives? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?
David wrote: "Jim wrote: "I think it depends entirely on the writer. Some have lives and it probably reduces word count :-)"Some writers have lives? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?"
THAT* would make a great novel.
*Those who can write two novels per year and have lives. Or, more correctly, a best-selling How-To book.
There's a very good science fiction novel about productive writers, The Silver Eggheads by Fritz Leiber.
It's a good idea to have information about and links to the books you've written in your Goodreads profile.That way, when people click your name to find out more about you because you've dazzled them with your witty conversation, they can find them easily.
Now, that's an awkward sentence. I'm sure you get my point...
Hi Everyone - a newbie here to GoodReads - I have recently published my first short story on Amazon KDP - I have found setting up pages on FaceBook and Twitter have helped with the promotional aspect of my work. I am also going to get some postcards done to leave at some coffee shops and also some independent book shops. Promotional work is hard - and there are many 'don't do that' roads you can easily find yourself heading down and then have to face the consequences when this does more hard than good. I really looking forward to joining the discussions on this site and getting to know some of you better!
DO join groups that have some connection to your book, e.g. if you write dystopia, there are a few Apocalyptic groups on here. Join the groups then join in conversations as often as you can. (I'm a fine one to talk - I try to join conversations, but time can be very elusive.) Then start a thread for your book in the appropriate place. DON'T post on that thread ten times a day, but DO inform readers of any news relating to your book. DO respond to anyone who takes the time to leave a post on your thread.P.S. Mine's a pint of best, Alastair.
Yes, track threads that you've posted on. I think it's very rude to start a conversation, then walk away. You wouldn't do that at a party. Don't do it on-line.Also, don't join more groups than you have time for.
I'm a bit concerned now. So I need to have a tolerable book? It all seemed so simple when I started out. Put some words on the page, rearrange them into some semblance of recognisable grammar, sprinkle with punctuation and add a twist of plot. Nobody mentioned anything about it being tolerable.
Don't worry about that, Beverley. I don't.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Yes, track threads that you've posted on. I think it's very rude to start a conversation, then walk away. You wouldn't do that at a party. Don't do it on-line.Also, don't join more groups than yo..."
Luckily I don't start too many threads, I just do cheap gags on other people's. I think it's pretty clear I'm more than disorganised enough to wander away from any thread I bothered to start, simply because I'd seen a squirrel or something, and I'd hate to offend people.
Like many of us I have discovered that writing the book (tough though it is) is but Step 1 on the writing journey... Now you have created your gem (or is it really just a flawed piece of costume jewellery?) how do you make its sparkle attract the eyes of a potential reader when it lies at the bottom of a treasure chest filled with millions of other such gems..... ;-)I've been using LinkedIn - as my book is a dystopian corporate thriller - so some business linkage -, am considering printing up business cards of the cover to leave in coffee shops, libraries etc. and also looking to use the Amazon price promotion scheme.
What's the experience of the rest of you? What works - or is it simply a case of trying lots of things and hoping lady luck smiles on one of them????
Thanks!
Alastair wrote: "Like many of us I have discovered that writing the book (tough though it is) is but Step 1 on the writing journey... Now you have created your gem (or is it really just a flawed piece of costume je..."Posting your book info in the appropriate folder/thread on sites like this, then joining in on the general discussions (follow the rules for non-promotion here). Join other groups that you have a general interest in. And stay with it. You're right. Writing the book was the easy part. Promoting never ends (why should it?). But be genuine about joining the groups, and stay active. I do believe that if a book is good, it will eventually catch on. Be persistent.
And if you haven't posted here, you might want to:
http://www.kboards.com
There's all sorts of sites for Indies and ebooks. That was just one.
Thanks Heath and Robert - I agree with your points. Promotion is tough and I would suggest requires traits that don't usually fit with those of writers! Keeping up the focus on promoting completed books whilst writing new ones requires a fine balance.
I have actually seen advice saying spamming is good. Mention your book as often and to as many people as possible. Off hand I can't remember where I saw it, a blog post I think. It is bad advice in my opinion but there is a lot of contradictory advice around for new authors. A lot of groups don't allow promotion and to do so gets you kicked out and labelled badly behaved.I often give advice on the KDP boards about GR and Facebook but I always say make sure you read the group rules and interact not just spam and run. One of the hardest parts of being an author is being patient, sales will (hopefully) come but it does take time and being realistic will help a lot. Building a following is not easy, it is time consuming and the initial work won't immediately reap rewards but it will come to fruit eventually.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people release a book on KDP and then expect to be the next bestseller.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Raised by Hand, Lifted by the Tides: A Southern Child's Memoir (other topics)The Silver Eggheads (other topics)
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