UK Amazon Kindle Forum discussion
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Dos and don'ts of promoting on Goodreads groups
Yep, pretty much. Lol some one just the other day had published his book at the beginning of November and was worried he had only had a handful of sales.... well yes that is normal.Oh the other one which happens is people publish, then expect Amazon to market and then blame Zon when the book doesn't sell.
There is a lot of information about and certainly what strategy works for John won't work for Jane and vice versa.
Networking is good though, and listening to advice from others, even if you decide not to take it, listen and learn:)
What's your experience of Kobo and iTunes compared to Amazon? I wondered whether it is worth listing a book on there as well as on Amazon - though then you'd lose your KDP listing.
Drifting off topic, but people's experiences vary. Of my 150 or so sales:Amazon: 140
iTunes: 5
Nook: 2
Kobo: 0
"Other" (Smashwords direct): 3
My perception is that Kindle dominates the UK market, but there are other channels out there and it would be remiss to ignore them entirely.
Andrew - yes drifted a little I guess, was thinking about promotion and also different channels.... thanks for your comments, confirms my thoughts! Does make it easier for us to focus our efforts.
I just worked out, I had exactly 18% of my sales that did not come from Amazon
I think the reason we are all on Goodreads is because we like to read, so I try to join into discussions as a reader, review the books I read, and make recommendations when I can. As a writer, I am lost... I try to post in the right way, but after tryng this - I doubt it gets me anywhere.The only time I have had downloads because of Goodreads is when I post free books - and then a few reviews result.
I think the key is (like has been said) to try to interact... But, I admit I find it hard on Goodreads. I have joined into conversations, but I only have so many hours in the day...
Today, to be honest, I wish I could just forget I ever wanted to write - I want to go back to the time when I just read & chatted...
Marketing is exhausting... And worrying about spamming makes me on edge!
I think we should all respect each other, and i take no offence if group members decide some posts should be taken down - I am grateful for the time moderators give.
So, to anyone looking to plug your book - think carefully how you do it & read the rules (I seem to have a habit of missing something... Duh!)
All the best, Vanessa :)
I'll add never be reticent about asking for help. The limitations of the goodreads group format can make it really easy to miss out reading helpful posts.Friendly groups such as ours relish helping. But we can't if we're not asked. :)
Patti, great point...I am rubbish at asking people for help - I know this group is really supportive, I can see from the posts :)
Thanks for everything you do,
All the best
Vanessa
Early days for me in this group - but I like the fact that this is a UK Kindle specific forum and many (all?) of us are writers and have the same challenge - once we've written - of getting our book found amongst the hundreds of thousands of others..... I used to think that this was the benefit of having a 'real' publisher who would promote it for you. But I am currently completing a business book for a well known business publisher and there does not appear to be as much promotion as you might expect....
Oh, far from all of us are writers, Alistair. A great many of us are not from the UK as well. We are a diverse group. Love of books is our commonality.
I'm quite proud of being common, me. :D
Shut up at the back, there.
Hey, I know I have to stay on topic but... I am from Gibraltar originally! (that is supposed to be in the UK, but some people seem to think otherwise... Rolls eyes)Yeah, so another rule... STAY ON TOPIC
(chuckles...)
Ha ha ha... Love it, Ignite!I have to add that I did ask for your help once and you were great - I still have not published that story though, funnily enough. I think it is fantastic when people such as ignite are willing to give up their time to give feedback to authors.
So, another DO - as a reader, offer to read a book for a review/ feedback for an author you are interested in reading, but don't want to buy. I would always say yes...
I am staying on topic (hee hee hee)
Vanessa
I think it's okay if we deviate now. Bunch of deviants we are.
And yes, Vanessa, many of us (we? Help Iggy) constant readers offer to help with beta reading our authors' books.
Personally, I'll not promise a review. I hate writing reviews. I'd much rather gush about a book I loved in the group. It's more I dunno... Real. I did make a real effort to write reviews
for a while but stopped cuz life is too short to do shit that isn't fun. I'll still write a short review for what I think are really good books, occasionally.
I just got a review in the US from a reader I have never met and I reckon it took her half an hour to write it... It has depressed me somewhat since on the one hand she calls me a good writer & then proceeds to rip me to shreds over characterisation! I try to keep some dignity, but yeah, this is why I do not seek reviews a lot... But, just saying, if you want to read an author but want to get it free there is no harm asking.
V :)
One thing which just occurred to me as worth a mention some groups are NOT author friendly. There is a small group who think if you post anything from your profile (and most of us use our author profile) it is spamming, even when it plainly isn't. Just keep it in mind.
I think the users of those groups are denying themselves a wonderful extra dimension of the reading experience.Just sayin'
I agree but there is a distinct anti author attitude in some. Promotion has its place, for sure. Authors are usually avid readers and some of us can separate the two sides....
A.L. wrote: "I agree but there is a distinct anti author attitude in some. Promotion has its place, for sure. Authors are usually avid readers and some of us can separate the two sides...."Absolutely, and when groups work well, Authors can get a LOT of feedback which means they end up as better authors.
No harm in asking although I wonder why you only mention fellow authors?There seems to be a consensus in our group that 'review trading' is dishonest and unacceptable though.
You may get a review or two from groupites who read your book.
Even better, you may get word of mouth recommendations if someone reads and enjoys your book.
Just a word of advice HC, don't get too hung up over Amazon reviews. Yes they're nice, but until someone actually sees the page they're invisible and useless.There's millions of books out there. The big problem isn't getting good reviews ON your page, it's getting people to look at the page where they can see the book (and of course the reviews).
dos and don'ts of hobnobbing on GR? Take up eating bacon or research BDSM dungeons should cover most options. Sadly I cannot sign up to the former and had my membership card to the latter confiscated...
MmmmmmhobnobsmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmExcept when you dunk them too long and you get what looks like a puddle of vomit in the bottom of your tea cup.
Oops.
Oh yes, on topic.
Yep, word of mouth is more important than loads of reviews, I reckon.
From my point of view as a reader, anyway.
I'm much more inclined to read a book that a friend has told me about than to download a book based on reviews by who knows,
I think the ratio of 'pure' readers and writers in our group is a pretty even split amongst our regular members, HC.
At least it was until Ignite went over to the dark side.
Marc wrote: "dos and don'ts of hobnobbing on GR? Take up eating bacon or research BDSM dungeons should cover most options. Sadly I cannot sign up to the former and had my membership card to the latter confiscat..." Bacon? I could just murder a bacon butty right now. Allowing for the BDSM element is more tricky, unless being kept prisoner by a Persian cat counts.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "MmmmmmhobnobsmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmExcept when you dunk them too long and you get what looks like a puddle of vomit in the bottom of your tea cup.
Oops.
Oh yes, on topic.
Yep, word of mouth is more i..."
Reviews? What are they? :D
Word of mouth is the thing.The best way is to write a good book, followed by more good books.
It is easier to sell half a dozen each of ten books than it is to sell 60 copies of one book. Especially if they are good books and the people who buy one go on to buy your others.
And our David knows what he's talking about.Not necessarily THAT David, but I'm sure one of our many Davids does.
The many Davids are the one David. The Davidborg will assimilate you all eventually... once we remember which one of us has the assimilation device... and gets new batteries for it.
I'm not that dark yet Patti - New Year some time I should become positively inky!
Patti (baconater) wrote: "And our David knows what he's talking about.Not necessarily THAT David, but I'm sure one of our many Davids does."
That's definitely 'post of the day' for me :)
Ignite wrote: "I'm not that dark yet Patti - New Year some time I should become positively inky!"Squid Iggy!
I'd say the best advice is just to chill, drift along with the flow, perhaps start following one of the big threads under the 'General Chat heading'.I tend to follow the 'Morning' thread, but there's one for those more sporty or more media savvy. Also follow Vanesa May's Naughty room because some of the stuff is just so funny.
Get to know people, chat, find out what people like, join in discussions, it's amazing what you'll learn.
Your life will trickle away between your fingers but it's relatively painless :-)
And forget spamming, HC. It will take hours out of your writing time, and won't do any good.Your best advertising for your book is to go and write another one, better than the first if possible. (That was the bit I found easy.)
I review other authors, as I am also a reader; I guess we all are that or we wouldn't be here. I think it is ok to review another author so long as it isn't I will scratch your back if you scratch mine. I might review for an author who reviewed my book, but that doesn't mean I have to like their book, or give them a five star review. The reverse is true - because someone gives you a one star review doesn't mean you review theirs the same. Review as a reader, not an author.
Promotion is one of those necessary evils for which there is no hard and fast rule of success. Some thing work, some don't and it is trial and error to find out what works for you. Networking, hanging about on here, facebook and google plus are a good way to start. Talk about things other than your book and you should be good.
Oh and most important - keep writing:)
That is the tricky bit HC - are the advantages of KDP select worth the exclusivity?
Fair enough, if it is working for you stick with it until it doesn't.
Elizabeth wrote: "Patti (baconater) wrote: I've also discovered authors have paid for review services. For $5, you can get a five star review. Buy three reviews for $10, etc. But I wonder, do big publishers do something similar and we just don't know about it? >Hi everyone - I'm new here, but on Elizabeth's point, how do new books come out already emblazoned with a 'best seller' banner on them? And what's so special about a review for NY Times, or Manchester Evening News etc? If they're anything like reviews for West End (UK) shows I've acted upon, sometimes I think they're paid to write them!
Elizabeth you're not being to harsh. But when I was checking the market for freelance work I saw someone wanting six Amazon reviews for $10 http://jandbvwebster.wordpress.com/20...One comment I heard about sock puppets and reviews and big publishers was 'what do you think unpaid interns are for'
Then there was Saatchi sending his staff out with wads of money to buy his book to put it up the best seller charts.
Absolutely. It stinks the way reviews are bought, sold and bartered. The only way it seems you can get a review (short of selling 2000 odd unrated copies which is next to nigh impossible) is to buy one or exchange one. How on earth do people imagine indies get 23 5* reviews within days of release? (Or mainstream publishers get 200+ for that matter). What niggles me is that my poor book sits there unnoticed and unloved among all these wonderful offerings because I don't cheat! The few reviews I do get, Amazon won't publish because they are by people who bought my book via Facebook (people I have never even met, but Amazon deem to be close friends!)
I agree... I have seen reviews posted months before the book is even released by at least one of the big names! Marketing... It's all about sales!
Elizabeth, the Big 5 are all at those tricks. New authors get reviews from bigger names in the same stable, newspaper reviews are more easily obtained (so that the supply of freebies is maintained) that sort of thing.Then there's the payments to the bookshops for 'marketing'...
Actually the big problem isn't reviews, the big problem is getting people to look at your page in the first place.Reviews might be an answer to this. Get your friends to write reviews about how they used your book to shave their pubic hair or how it got them into embarrassing erotic entanglements so that the page goes viral on facebook ;-)
Haha, you'd need a video of the shaving incident though,Jim.I'd say at least 60% of my sales have been word of mouth, but they initially sprung from reviews, either readers stumbling across the book (not literally!), or me giving books away in exchange for a review. Therein, the only worthwhile reviews are honest ones.
Advanced review copies are common, there are groups on Goodreads which offer them. Assuming the review is genuine and unbiased then it is fine. Just becuase someone sends you a book to review doesn't mean you like it;)Word of mouth is gold.
Patience is as well, there are so many books that SPAs do struggle with marketing.
It probably doesn't help there is a lot of information around, most of it contradictory, and new authors make mistakes.
I do get books to review from a couple of Magazines, and I get to keep the books. This is just how reviewing works. A couple of times I've already bought the book because it was one I'd been waiting for for some time.I've never considered that to be an issue to be honest.
HiJust been reading through. Interesting information which I will digest well. One comment that sticks out most for me at the moment is 'It probably doesn't help there is a lot of information around, most of it contradictory, and new authors make mistakes. (A.L)' I joined GoodReads in December and thought I would spend time on it getting to know the in's and out's of what I should be doing in regard to getting info about my books out into the world. Wow! What an eye-opener it has been. Every time I read a thread I get info about a 'site/service' that I should be using, and then other threads say 'Don't!' Instead of time on GR I have been trying to get setup on Facebook, Twitter and been looking at a host of other sites, trying to learn my way around them, along with my own site. My head has been spinning since December and I don't think it will let up for a while yet! lol. I wish I had been better prepared for this but hey ho, it looks as though Trial & Error is the way forward. So, right here, now, I will apologise for my mistakes to come... :-)
UK Amazon Kindle Forum
Books mentioned in this topic
Raised by Hand, Lifted by the Tides: A Southern Child's Memoir (other topics)The Silver Eggheads (other topics)
That would probably be almost everyone, right?