Language & Grammar discussion

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Grammar Central > Ask Our Grammar "Experts"

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message 451: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
We'll run with it then. It's official (and you get the Grammatically Fickle Finger of Fate today).


message 452: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
NOT to be confused with THE FINGER! Eh Rob!! (Nikolai gave me it yesterday.....remember Nikolai?)


message 453: by Sarah (new)

Sarah (sarahj) | 162 comments Hi again -
Is that last conjugation correct? Does is seem awkward? Thanks!

"Days turned to dust that couldn’t fly;

they phantomed, bogging down
the awnings, like the bygones
I’d sworn went by."



message 454: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
My grammar sense wants to read "I'd sworn had gone by," but if it's a voice and that voice is of a dialect of the author's choosing, you can make do with whatever construction you wish.


message 455: by Carol (new)

Carol | 10410 comments Which is the right word? My friend and I were woke up. or My friend and I were awakened........ awakened or woke


message 456: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
My money's on "My friend and I were awakened."


message 457: by Carol (new)

Carol | 10410 comments That is what I thought. I just finished Homage To Catalonia,and Orwell used woke. So I thought maybe I was wrong all these years .Thanks


message 458: by David (last edited Sep 26, 2009 10:29AM) (new)

David | 4568 comments Looks correct to me. The whole poem plays with derivation and syntax. "The bygones I sworn went by." Cute.

UPDATE: Should be "swore." Typo.


message 459: by Sarah (new)

Sarah (sarahj) | 162 comments Thanks for the advice. Maybe "The bygones I swore went by" is better...


message 460: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments "Swore" is correct. "Sworn" is the participle. Typo.




message 461: by Anna (new)

Anna Walls (annalwalls) I'd leave out the word 'phantomed' all together. You're trying to get across the idea of time not moving. Phantoms move.

Days turned to dust that couldn't fly
they bogged down the awnings
like bygones I'd sworn went by


message 462: by lixy (new)

lixy I'd like to go back to the Antipodes for a second, although this is more eymology than grammar, sorry! As a pedantic greek, I'd like to point out that many latin roots have their origin in greek (this is not just nationalism talking, as in the silly movie "my big fat greek wedding" :-)). Like "ped-" (foot) from "pod-". The other greek root "ped-" which confused you is actually better transliterated as "paed-" child. You have encountered the problem of transliteration, a frequent bugbear for translators like me (problematic, because it's never quite accurate; for instance, this "ae" in greek is actually the diphthong "ai"). This "ae" spelling is usually maintained in british english, such as haemoglobin, where we would write hemoglobin (which, BTW, is a typical medical terminology mix of greek and latin roots, haem- blood and glob-round, sphere, and funnily enough, in greek h(a)emoglobin is called "haimospherin"). In england you probably still take your child to a paediatrician and perhaps talk about a school's paedagogical system. Pedant, BTW, comes also--via latin-from the same pedagogue path....


message 463: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments A few intellectual trinkets for οι πολλοι, aka the benighted masses.


message 464: by Anna (new)

Anna Walls (annalwalls) I took an Old English Language class once. Fascinating. Didn't really learn much though.


message 465: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Archaeologist keeps the "ae" but it, too, now has alternate spellings.


message 466: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
I'm in the Antipodes all the time! We have pedagogy here.....


message 467: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
We have pedagogy here.....

Has the government taken steps to control it? You know, quarantines and all that?


message 468: by David (last edited Oct 10, 2009 04:36PM) (new)

David | 4568 comments A dying Irishman was talking to his priest. "Father," he said, "I know it's a secular school, but New York University is a good one. I'm thinking of leaving it some money."
"D'you know, my son," Father Malachy replied, "that the male and female students there matriculate together, and share the same curriculum."
"Never mind, Father," came the reply, "I'm leaving it all to the Church!"


message 469: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Sic semper matriculus! (read: "Ever thus to matriculators!")


message 470: by Anna (new)

Anna Walls (annalwalls) I would see stylistic design as something unique to this particular author. Some means of describing (in this case) mood. However, I don't spot anything unique. I suppose it could be "quality of nervous despair" - it's not exactly a common wording.

Certainly don't take my word for it though. I've no education in literature at all. All I do is write.


message 471: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
Shouldn't you be doing your own homework, Charles?


message 472: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
I think I agree with Ruth.


message 473: by Anna (new)

Anna Walls (annalwalls) If that is an example of 'home work', I'm glad I'm here instead.


message 474: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
Anna wrote: "If that is an example of 'home work', I'm glad I'm here instead."

Of course it looks hard. But we haven't heard the lecture or explanation his teacher would have given.




message 475: by Anna (new)

Anna Walls (annalwalls) True. But it still sounds like a "guess what the teacher wants to hear" sort of thing to me. I never was very good when it came to Literature. Then again, I don't think I ever had a very good teacher.


message 476: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
You said in another thread that it was a question set by your teacher and you asked for help with the answer. So it is schoolwork of some kind and you should be doing your own analysis! Happy to help with grammar and punctuation Charles, but not analysis. And we are very friendly here....just ask anyone!!:-)


message 477: by Anna (new)

Anna Walls (annalwalls) Aw now, Charles. We've all had to do our homework. Just because we expect you to do yours doesn't make us mean people. Try yahoo answers if you want all of your questions answered the easy way.


message 478: by Anna (new)

Anna Walls (annalwalls) All right then. Enlighten me - I'm notoriously curious. What is "Stylistic Design"?


message 479: by Nita (new)

Nita | 43 comments Hi,

I have a question about the word "steps."

There are a set of tasks that must be performed simultaneously (not in sequence). So is it all right if I said:

"Perform the following steps:"

Does the word "steps" automatically suggest that all the tasks need to be performed in sequence?

Thanks,
Nita


message 480: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Yep, just like the Argentine tango,
La tarantella, and the
Spanish fandango.




message 481: by Nita (new)

Nita | 43 comments Thanks, Gabi! The original sentence was:
"These processes then carry out the following steps:"

I'll use:
"These processes then carry out the following tasks simultaneously."

(I don't know why I changed the original sentence to post it here!) LOL

Thanks! :-)

Nita


message 482: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Pat your head (up and down) and rub your belly with the other hand (in circles) at the same time.

Point both index fingers, holding your hands in front of you. Move one hand clockwise and the other counterclockwise, simultaneously.

Congratulations. You are now a fifth grader again.


message 483: by John (last edited Nov 29, 2009 11:30AM) (new)

John Sorry if this has already been covered, but I just can't handle a period inside quotation marks for a set-off term. The following example is just wrong:

I came home from the party fuming, because Annette said my new ($200!) haircut looked "funny."


message 484: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
John wrote: "Sorry if this has already been covered, but I just can't handle a period inside quotation marks for a set-off term. The following example is just wrong:

I came home from the party fuming, because ..."


Exactly the way I feel. I copy edited a book for someone who felt the same way and we put the punctuation where we thought it belonged. Got all kinds of flak when the book came out.




message 485: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Looks right to me. Hey, when you get a period rule without exceptions, you run with "it."


message 486: by Ruth (new)

Ruth John wrote: "Sorry if this has already been covered, but I just can't handle a period inside quotation marks for a set-off term. The following example is just wrong:

I came home from the party fuming, because ..."


The British & Canadians agree with you, John--& those who speak other European languages too, for that matter. But I'm an editor thoroughly trained in U.S. standard English style, so my eye wants the "mild" punctuation marks (period & comma) inside the quotation marks. At least we can all agree about putting the more emphatic colons, semicolons, & question & exclamation marks OUTSIDE, unless they're part of the quoted matter.


message 487: by John (new)

John Actually, I took an English course as part of my 2nd B A program a decade ago, and the prof agreed with me that such a rule for Americans wasn't hard and fast in cases such as the example cited.


message 488: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
I used to do it the 'right' way, but since becoming an L&Ger I am so confused I just stick it anywhere the mood takes me! I am now a creative punctuator!


message 489: by Anna (new)

Anna Walls (annalwalls) I've been told that for a set-aside word or phrase, to use single quotes with the period outside. It's the double quotes and the period that catch the eye as a mistake.


message 490: by John (new)

John I could easily live with that 'compromise'.


message 491: by Carol (new)

Carol | 10410 comments Debbie wrote: "I used to do it the 'right' way, but since becoming an L&Ger I am so confused I just stick it anywhere the mood takes me! I am now a creative punctuator!"

I think that is what I am also hehehe


message 492: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
I put periods inside the closing quotation mark no matter what as a form of solidarity with those patriots and Minutemen who gave their lives fighting the surly lobsterbacks over such matters as taxation, representation, and punctuation. Period.


message 493: by Carol (new)

Carol | 10410 comments They were a surly lot according to John Adams. I have grown to admire the man????????????????


message 494: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
It's OK to admire ole John. And Thommy J. wasn't all he was cracked up to be.


message 495: by Sarah (new)

Sarah (sarahj) | 162 comments Hi -
Isn't the hyphen here in "more-prominent" bullshit, and that dash also would have been better as a comma, no?

"GM announced a string of management changes - including a new role for Vice Chairman Robert Lutz and the promotion of some of the company's younger managers into more-prominent roles."


message 496: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments You are correct, sir.


message 497: by John (new)

John I think it looks better without a hyphen at all after "more"; I'm a dash fan, but a comma would be more useful.


message 498: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments A comma would, indeed--be preferable. See what I mean?


message 499: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
I think a dash is ridiculous and a comma would have been superfluous....it needs nothing.


message 500: by Sarah (new)

Sarah (sarahj) | 162 comments That "more-prominent" is really giving me nightmares. In this case, "more" is an adverb, and adverb-adjective compounds aren't hyphenated. It's like hyphenating here: "It was a skillfully-created vase." No!


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