The House of Hades
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NICO… YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT O.o
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Dec 27, 2013 01:32PM
Exactly. Why should something that only lasted a few pages change how you feel about the book? It's just Nico being gay guys. It's not the end of the world. He's a CHARACTER from a book. He's not even real!! You wanna stop reading because a CHARACTER is gay? You're mad because a person who doesn't even exist is gay? People these days...
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First of all, the book isn't meant for children. Its meant for teens or tweens around ages 12-16, or slightly younger than the protagonists.The writing is simplistic so that's why many younger readers read it.
I thought Riordan was brave for putting Nico as having a crush on Percy. It makes the books more realistic and in touch with real life, which is great. I don't see how it matters to the plot though.
Nice wrote: "First of all, the book isn't meant for children. Its meant for teens or tweens around ages 12-16, or slightly younger than the protagonists.The writing is simplistic so that's why many younger re..."
i totally agree
I like how everyone is still eating out poor Jαṡṃïṉε, i'm sure someone(a bunch of someones) pm'd a boatload of hatemail to her..... Its just sadCollin I agree fully with what you said, it felt forced as hell to me. That scene did not match the rest of the book, it was as if Rick completed the book, went on twitter and saw all the people requesting(no demanding) more gay characters in books(read my previous posts to get it), then decided to put in the Eros bit.
That whole section of the book has no cohesion with the rest of the story. You know when you read a book all of it's story feels connected? To me it felt as Rick just slipped that part in... if he didn't then his writing skills has dropped tremendously.
Being Goth and secluded does not make you gay.... so if that is how Rick sees gay people(he said he did not intend for him to be gay at the beginning but that is how he developed).... then he has to review what he knows and before anyone here comes and says gays are secluded, how Rick described Nico after he "dealt" with Bianca's death was a "goth" kid(u know skulls black etc etc)... if he evolved from being a secluded Goth with group aversion issues to a gay.... then that means all Goths are gays... Which would mean Rick would have a new group of people boycotting him because he called all of them gay.
i just finished reading the book and when i finished reading this particular part i was like what the heck are you doing to my favorite character!?! i mean what was Riordan thinking, oh wait, clearly he wasn't. i don't think Riordan should have made this particular character gay. i personally never saw nor do see even now nico being gay. actually i always liked that nico didn't like anyone in a romantic way, it was something i could relate to… he was always that kid who just chose to be on his own and i thought that that was awesome because nowadays everyone wants to fit in and it was cool to see/have a character who didn't care about any of that. i think it was a mistake and as far as I'm concerned that segment of the book never happened.
@Kevin,I couldn't agree more!
@kevin and ben i also agree with you to, there are a mutitude of problems with this scene most of which Kevin addressed. i also felt that the scene wasn't coherent with the rest of the book and i actually gave the book a 4 instead of a 5 specifically because of the scene. it didn't fit the character or story and i thought that if Riordan thought it did fit then he is clearly losing his touch as a writer. i also didn't think it was age appropriate there are many elementary kids reading this book series and i don't think that an author should be putting down or promoting being gay in their books. if we wanted to think about those kinds of politics we would read books about politics.
I wonder if Percy is gonna be the Uncle of a Chicken-Cyclops Niece or Nephew(that pairing always baffled me(view spoiler)Also I am sure if we look(not me I have a bunch of books on my plate) really hard and reread all the books we can find characters who are actually gay or matches Rick's "perception" of being gay and if you are true to yourself you will admit that Nico's "gayness" does not match... if you still believe so you just have wishful thinking or you are projecting(please no one gang up on me for this).
Kevin,Thank you! Finally someone who understands the problem that there is with this! It honestly does ruin a part of the series because always when i think of Nico, it brings back his little detail about him being gay. Also I think that it really does not even begin to fit into the story. It even disrupts the flow of the book even if it is only a few pages. It is almost like he decided to add that little part in after the book was finished.
Cassondra wrote: "i also didn't think it was age appropriate there are many elementary kids reading this book series and i don't think that an author should be putting down or promoting being gay in their books. if we wanted to think about those kinds of politics we would read books about politics. ..."As I said in my previous posts he as the author can do as he pleases, it's his book but he HAS to put a warning on it. As I explained with an adult author slipping in a full gay sex scene with specific details in my previous posts, it's their book. If its listed under Adult, they don't need to spell anything out(unless its a full Gay Romance), they can put in what they please... but Rick writes for children.
YES, the series has matured to a teenage rating... but they still have kids reading it(some stores have it in the Juvenile section) when its at this level(juveniles to teens) you have to be carefully what you do. Remember a five year old is not going to walk into the book store by themselves, purchase HoH by themselves, with their monthly salary, then go home and read it.... not it's the parents... and they are picky what you expose their kids to.
Again I don't think this was a "big surprise" I think that Rick was just pandering all that PR BS he gave on his site was just that BS are you going to tell me that it took 6+ books to realize that "gays need heroes too"?? No, the climate is just right for him to get a whole new boat load of supporters.
Gonna be a dick here but if anyone didn't notice this thread has a huge amount of Pro gays supporters in in bashing anyone with differing opinions... the only reason I'm probably left alone is because I don't care what people do, people will be people.
H99 wrote: "How Zeus and Hera, being siblings, could have children ."Its funny because if the Bible is true, we are all the products of incest... yet its a "vile act" if the Bible supports it why are people against it?(Adam and Eve had kids... who did those kids have kids with.... let it sink in)
Ben wrote: "It is almost like he decided to add that little part in after the book was finished..."If it didn't feel out of place I probably wouldn't have even been in this thread, yes I still would have said he was pandering(because any author that waits 8+ books to do something in this current Era where it is seen as "cool" to accept gays IS pandering) but at least he would have been doing it right... instead we have this forced in piece.
Also if I was honest I didn't have a problem with Nico's confession it was what lead up to the confession... I thought I was just reading too long because the story became out of Sync... but reading these comments I see it was not only me.
I saw "Lord of the Winds"(Jason) going with Nico as a way to fight his fear of the guy... but I see Rick had other ideas(having the strongest character in the group showing acceptance for Nico).
Actually Kevin, Adam and Eve had two sons: Cain and Abel. Cain traveled to the land of nod where he met his wife... Now your probably wondering... Hey that doesn't make sense Adam and Eve were the first humans, who was this wife and where did she come from? Good question! There are no answers...
Before anyone reads this, I apologize, again, for the length. I always write too much. If anyone actually reads the whole thing, I'll be surprised. LOL. (blame procrastination. oops.)Kevin wrote: Being Goth and secluded does not make you gay.... so if that is how Rick sees gay people(he said he did not intend for him to be gay at the beginning but that is how he developed).... then he has to review what he knows and before anyone here comes and says gays are secluded, how Rick described Nico after he "dealt" with Bianca's death was a "goth" kid(u know skulls black etc etc)... if he evolved from being a secluded Goth with group aversion issues to a gay.... then that means all Goths are gays... Which would mean Rick would have a new group of people boycotting him because he called all of them gay.
Wait, so Kevin, what you're saying is that, just because a gay kid in the series happened to be "goth" and secluded, you're saying that Rick is saying that everyone who is "goth" and secluded is gay? That is a slippery slope fallacy. No, a gay character happened to also be secluded and "goth" (as you know, there is more than one quality that makes up a person); there was nothing saying that all gay people are secluded and goth. And may I add, that Apollo and Favonius are both at least bisexual, and they certainly do not fall into the "gay people are goth and secluded" box that you are saying that Rick was implying.
I think I can see where you're coming from, I feel that you think that because "it just happened", you are saying that Rick needed a character that was gay due to "boost his popularity" or because its "mainstream" or something(which I still completely disagree with as conversely, many people are choosing not to read this series due to Nico. Again, I advise you to check out the one star reviews on amazon), and he used Nico as some sort of scapegoat. Sure, there were no gay characters that we knew of before this book in this series. Does that mean that Rick's intention/move/motive (however you want to look at it) is null and void just because there wasn't one earlier? Like it or not, it IS helping other kids and building awareness. I won't pretend to know what his motive was, as no one knows but himself, but I think that acting like this one move from Rick was sneaky or not called for because you think he has a hidden agenda is, in my opinion, ridiculous. The fact that he even had to release a statement regarding this topic shows that he knew about the backlash got.
I think that I've said this before, but I think that if he really wanted to appease certain fan groups, then he would've done a lot more different, less controversial ones, before this one. You question his motives on why he's suddenly all "pro-gay rights". Just because he didn't have a gay character before doesn't mean he didn't support them before and is trying to blend into the mainstream. Yes, as a society, we are becoming more accepting, which probably did have a bit to do with the time. But so? How is that a bad thing? Those authors who are afraid of backlash will speak up, even if they are not as brave as the ones who did it earlier. And though society is becoming more tolerant does not mean that there aren't still many people against it, as there certainly is. In my eyes, it doesn't make his move any less genuine; he still did it, didn't he? Plus, there is the fact that none of us have any proof whether his omitting a gay character in the series earlier was intentional, or it just wasn't the right time in the series yet. It may not have even occurred to him until now. Either way, we have no clue if it was as calculated as you make it seem to be. But I highly doubt that he was sitting there writing his book thinking "ohh i need to be more popular!!!!!!!1 lets make a character gay, because obviously that is not controversial and everyone supports that!!!"
However, I do agree with you on the fact that right now it is not very relevant to the plot. But who knows? It might be relevant in Blood of Olympus :D Only time will tell.
Kevin wrote: Also I am sure if we look(not me I have a bunch of books on my plate) really hard and reread all the books we can find characters who are actually gay or matches Rick's "perception" of being gay and if you are true to yourself you will admit that Nico's "gayness" does not match... if you still believe so you just have wishful thinking or you are projecting(please no one gang up on me for this).
If you didn't feel like it matched up, that's fine, that's your opinion. But you don't speak for me or anyone but yourself, so even if I still find it believable, and I'm pretty sure I'm "being true to myself" by thinking that, as this is all my opinion. It didn't feel out of the blue to me, although I did know about Nico's sexuality before reading the book.
Also, I feel that you are missing one crucial point. Even though a character is gay, it doesn't define them! You are saying, that because one of Rick's gay characters-- Nico-- does not "match" a certain standard that gay people supposedly need to match, it's not believable? Please enlighten me, what is this certain standard they have to match? Because I didn't know there was one, as I thought they could have a variety of different personality types, just like straight people.
By making Nico, a character that we have known for years, gay, it helps readers to see past the fact that Nico is gay. If a character was introduced for the sole purpose of being gay, then because we, as readers, do not know the new character well, we would define the new character as "that new gay character" (i think i wrote about this in a past post). With Nico, we know that is not what defines them, and reminds us that gay people have traits other than their sexuality.
And honestly, I was catching up on this thread, and I still honestly do not get how the "inappropriate for children" argument is still here. It's a crush. Kevin, I am sorry that you read a gay sex scene without being notified, but that has nothing to do with this book, and that does not mean that any author with a gay character will shove a gay sex scene into their books. Nico has no sexual thoughts regarding Percy(that we know of/are stated or even implied in this book). I still don't see how the existence of a gay character should be treated as an adult issue. And like you said, it's his book, if he doesn't feel the need to do so, he doesn't "have" to do it just because some people think that the existence of a gay character needs a sticker or warning. He's not forcing anybody to reading his book. In real life, gay people don't come with stickers, sorry. Not only would putting a sticker or something on this book send the message that having a gay character is wrong or not normal because it apparently needs to have a warning, the kids who read it will assume that there needs to be a warning to differentiate any gay people in real life too and may possibly be surprised when they realize there isn't. Sheltering them from reality will only make them ignorant.
And on a side note, to anyone who has a problem with the existence of a gay character being inappropriate for children-- I've said it before and i'll say it again-- how are abusive relationships, bestiality, rape, cheating, alcohol addiction, incest, murder (all of which have appeared in this series at least once), appropriate? How come you don't have a problem with those? I'm honestly curious. Why do you need a warning now?
Also to the people saying that Nico's sexuality was a pure political move, and that this is no place for politics, um hello? Do gay people only exist in politics? I really hate that political agenda argument, because that argument completely oversimplifies the whole argument. This is not simply a political issue, it's an univeral, human issue. It's not the same as taxes or whatever.
On a completely unrelated note, I feel like I come to this thread and ramble whenever I procrastinate. If anyone actually read that huge pile of words thanks I guess?? I just really felt the need to post my opinions. If anyone disagrees with me, that's fine, and if I offended anyone, sorry about that, that wasn't my intention.
Also I am so done with the SAT. Ugh. Freaking standardized tests.
I read it cecerose. I completely agree :) there really isn't much else to say :p
Cherie wrote: "I read it cecerose. I completely agree :) there really isn't much else to say :p"omg haha I didn't think anyone would actually read it. idk i always end up writing so much whenever I post here. hehe oops
Thumbs up Cecerose. I read the whole thing. :)
I read everything Cecerose ! You basically summed up everything that I could not put into words :D
My only problem with cecerose's comment was that I'm not too sure what Kevin said was a slippery slope fallacy... Seems more like post hoc, ergo prompter hoc (after this, therefore because of this)... What it sounds like Kevin was saying was that because Nico became very sullen and "goth" Riordan decided he was gay... It's assuming those two things are related simply because they happened after each other. There is no standard gay person. I know many goth gays, many very happy gays, introverted, extroverted, funny, shy, and on and on. Everybody is different and, just like straights, gays have diverse personalities. They don't all fit under this archetypal "gay person" label and just because one happens to fit under a particular label doesn't mean they all do.
@Cecerose. YOU USED SLIPPERY SLOPE FALLACY ^_^finally someone who I can fully understand
Oh haha yeah Tyler Oakley xDD He is definitely not goth
Vlad wrote: "Cecerose wrote: "Cherie wrote: "I read it cecerose. I completely agree :) there really isn't much else to say :p"omg haha I didn't think anyone would actually read it. idk i always end up writing..."
Yeah, of course that's always a possibly. Sadly, for many authors that is true. However, there is no way of determining whether that applies to Rick or not (that I know of at least), and I guess I like to look on the bright side of things? Well not always, but for topics like these I try to give authors the benefit of the doubt, deserved or not. Maybe that's naive of me, but oh well ahahha
Cherie wrote: "My only problem with cecerose's comment was that I'm not too sure what Kevin said was a slippery slope fallacy... Seems more like post hoc, ergo prompter hoc (after this, therefore because of this)..."Oops. I might've used the wrong fallacy, I don't really remember them all LOL we went over it in class like twice so yeahhhhh. I think I wrote slippery slope because Kevin jumped to conclusions about the author's intentions, that he was supposedly saying that all goths are gay. But the point is that it's still a fallacy. Just because one of Rick's gay characters is goth or something, if you assume about Rick's believes that all gay characters are goth, that is definitely a fallacy. Maybe it's false causality (in like assuming Rick's beliefs) or this one: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/comp... .
Slippery slope is used when somebody claims that one thing will inevitably lead to something else that isn't at all connected... :p false causality makes sense too.
Cherie wrote: "Slippery slope is used when somebody claims that one thing will inevitably lead to something else that isn't at all connected... :p false causality makes sense too."oh awk LOL I should review my fallacies. But yeah, it's probably false causality or something similar to that
I guessed Nico was gay a few pages before it was revealed because the wind god was talking about his own relationship with a guy and I thought, what if Nico likes Percy? and the wind god is just getting you ready for the next few pages.
rick should have handled it better if he wanted to write that part.Nico's grief can very well be explained by the fact that he is just an introvert who doesn't get along very well with everybody.him turning out to be gay ended up looking dumb because up to this point it was built up as if nico is a social outcast.wouldn't the fact that he is too emotionally co-dependent on his sister (he bought hazel back as a result,didnt he?) explain his personality better?
I was actually pretty surprised by this. As far as people saying they expected it...I honestly can't see where they would have had clues. I mean, once something is known it is easy to look back and create clues...but during an initial reading I just can't see where there were any signs pointing to it...not any that would have been readily recognizable. That being said, here's my take on it:Personally, I don't support homosexual behavior. However, I'm not naive enough to believe it doesn't exist and can be ignored. I am NOT homophobic, contrary to the belief that to not support something is to fear it. I don't think Nico's sexual orientation takes away from the overall story at all, but at the same time I don't think it really adds anything substantial either. As others have said, I think because this series has always been about not shunning people and mistreating people because they are different, this choice on Riordan's part is indeed a nod to the gay/lesbian community. Whether you think that is a good or bad thing is irrelevant, it's just what it is. It is saying that RR is inclusive not just with race or disorders (dyslexia, etc), but with sexuality as well. To that degree, it is admirable. I don't think it is RR's intention to promote homosexuality, but rather tolerance and kindness. I think the scene with Nico wasn't really about Nico, but rather Jason's response. I don't think RR is telling kids, "go be gay!" I think he is saying, "be kind and compassionate to people who might not be exactly like you...in whatever way." If I were a parent, this is how I would address it with my child.
To be honest, I never really liked Nico that much. I never disliked him, but it was more of a take him or leave him kind of relationship I had with the character. He annoyed me too much (no, not because he is gay...I thought that long before I knew it...I haven't liked him much from the start). I mostly read this series for 2 reasons: 1) The twist on mythology is cool and 2)I am quite frankly obsessed with the Percy/Annabeth story line. I love their relationship and their characters. To me, Nico was always a minor secondary guy.
Unlike a lot of people, I don't think it was integrated into the story that smoothly. It didn't flow that well with the story. He could have easily been bipolar, clinically depressed, or any number of things to account for his solitary, social outcast type behavior. To assume we will connect his behavior to homoerotic feelings is quite an assumption indeed. So, I do think it could have been done better. I felt it really was just dropped in there, hence the reason I think strongly believe it is an attempt to include the homosexual community more than anything.
In the end, I'll keep reading the series. What occurred in this book is not enough to make me say, "No! I will never read it again." I will admit I would have my limits. I have no interest, because of my own beliefs, in reading about a homosexual relationship if it were presented in the way that Percy and Annabeth's is. That's just my personal preference - I don't say it to offend. I wouldn't be interested, nor would it make sense, if RR tried to do the love triangle and have Percy conflicted about his feelings for Annabeth vs. Nico...that just wouldn't work I don't think and I would not read then. But, for now I really don't see it as an overwhelmingly distracting bit of information. If it wasn't there...I wouldn't care....because it is...I still don't care. I just like the overall story for the 2 reasons I mentioned.
Now, since a Child of Hades is supposed to die... I do think Nico would make more sense (again, no because he is gay). Personally, I just like Hazel better..she doesn't annoy me like Nico does. But, Nico's character just always feels...temporary. I can see the others living out long lives, even Hazel, but not Nico. It's weird, but I just see him dying young. Who knows...maybe he will die to save Percy...which wouldn't bother me. I do think it would, and should, be Nico to die. It seems like a natural course of events just given his character throughout the series.
As long as Percy and Annabeth stay together...I can be perfectly tolerant of ALMOST anything! I love them!
I have a hard time liking Jason. He wishes he could be Percy. I actually don't like how all of a sudden Jason has become super protective of Nico. It's almost like, let's treat the gay guy with kid gloves. To me, that would be insulting. Just treat him like you treat everyone else. Isn't that the point? There is only one book left...soooo...no point in giving up on a good series for something like this. Honestly, I gloss over Nico, Jason, and Frank a lot anyway. Leo is pretty cool and of course I really like Percy as far as guys go. Annabeth, Hazel, and Piper are cool too.
Cecerose wrote: "Wait, so Kevin, what you're saying is that, just because a gay kid in the series happened to be "goth" and secluded, you're saying that Rick is saying that everyone who is "goth" and secluded is gay?..."You caught up on the thread and the only person you could quote was me? q-q
To your above quote, many people in this thread(you read it) are NOW claiming that after reading this book "that explains what happened", that piece was meant to be for them, how Rick describe Nico there was as a goth, i was referencing to people taking goth behaviors and attributing them to being gay. yes i am sure there are gay goths but i am sure someone(a goth) would punch you or anyone else who says that all goths are gay.
Cecerose wrote: "Also, I feel that you are missing one crucial point. Even though a character is gay, it doesn't define them!..."
Read some of my old post, i said that the only way you can tell someone is gay is for them to tell you. If you have 20 guys(5 of them are gay) and you have all of them dress proper formal attire and stand in a line, can you tell who is gay and not? No. HENCE why the whole it doesn't need the whole gay thing if sexuality isn't involved.
Unless there is some Giant that needs to see gay affection to be defeated... it has no merit in the story nor do i see it doing anything in BoO other than friend zoning Reyna if she opens her heart to Nico on their voyage.
Explaining gay to kids without sexuality would be tricky, if you say he just likes boys, the boy who this was explained to(who likes his friends very much as friends) would go and say he is gay because he has guy friends who he likes... when you try to explain its not like that you will just get them more confused. You can say its just a boy who has a crush on another boy, if the boy ask you what's a crush? You say, its when you get excited when you see someone. "but mom i get excited when i see Ron at the gate for us to go to the park and play ball". "oh noes how do i explain this q-q".
If you want people to be accepting put it into sex ed classes. You either wait for Sex Ed class or risk exposing your kids to sexuality at a earlier age.
Now i see a lot of people in this thread is 20 and under, wait till you're 30 something have a job living by yourself and supporting a small child, if you think the same... well that's that but i am sure a bunch of you will go around it differently.... before anyone says i'm 30 something with kids... no i'm in my earlier 20's(sorry person who said i was 70) and planning never to have kids, world messed up enough don't need something to give me grey hair before i'm 30.
Cecerose wrote: "Also to the people saying that Nico's sexuality was a pure political move, and that this is no place for politics, um hello? ."
It is political, i didn't say it was political but the whole "gayness and acceptance" is politically motivated, they want it to be legalized, they want same rights as straight couple marriages, they want to be able to legally adopt, they want etc etc etc. All of these things listed has to do with Government and Laws. If Government fell non of this would be possible. Yes, you can "life together" but nothing would be "legal" thus the whole thing is Politics.
Just wrote: "him turning out to be gay ended up looking dumb because up to this point it was built up as if nico is a social outcast.wouldn't the fact that he is too emotionally co-dependent on his sister (he bought hazel back as a result,didnt he?) explain his personality better? ..."Everything you said 5 Star post.
The only part I didn't like about the whole Nico being gay thing is the way Jason was treating Nico. It's just like what Jenifer said. Jason was treating Nico differently because he is gay which is really rude. He acts like Nico is some kind of deformed person that he has to be nice to or else it would seem like he's being rude. He should just treat Nico the way he treats everyone else. Treating him differently than that is really offensive. I mean it's a good thing that he supports Nico and stuff but seriously. Don't treat him like he's a poor, homeless person. I also hate the way Jason was kind of pressuring Nico to come out openly. He was saying things like "everyone will accept you" and things like that. Jason thinks he's helping Nico but he's just being a nuisance. I really don't like Jason's character. Rick portrays him as this perfect guy and Jason seriously gets on my nerves. And Pipers character. Piper is just too obsessed with Jason and she gets really annoying. Seriously, if one of the seven have to die then I want it to be Piper, hands down. Lol, the two worst characters are in a relationship. Jason and Piper are perfect for each other.
Jason doesn't treat him any differently. He was trying to make friends with him even before, you should remember. Now he understands Nico better, but he doesn't treat him strangely. If any time anyone was nice to anyone it was strange, I would not want to live in this world! Oh, and Avalon,you said- "He acts like Nico is some kind of deformed person that he has to be nice to or else it would seem like he's being rude." The Merriam-Webster defenition of rude is not having or showing concern or respect for the rights and feelings of other people : not polite. In other words, not nice. You have to be nice or you are rude, period. It doesn't matter who you are dealing with. Jason is nice to everyone, and he stays that way after any new information is presented. He's treating him "the way he treats everyone else". And don't bring Piper into this. She's not even involved. Please post your opinion on Piper on another thread.
Dria wrote: " Jason is nice to everyone, and he stays that way after any new information is presented. He's treating him "the way he treats everyone else". And don't bring Piper into this. She's not even involved. Post your hateful words on another thread. ..."Dria i'm going to be honest with you, when i first read Jason i kinda tolerated him.... i now see Jason as a Douche... i don't know how it came to be but Jason is a Douche to me.
If you read all my comments concerning "Lord of the Winds" you will see why, and you will see why i think Rick used him to see or observe Nico's "gayness"
Dria wrote: "I don't care."Avalon just stating her opinions... and you came on like a Justin Beiber fan(no logic, no reasoning) and just went on her.... how is her comments hateful? You do realize we are speaking of book characters right?
I get the feeling that you are 12 or younger... i don't think someone older would behave how you did.
I actually am older. All I did was defend my stance and state that I did not share a certain opinion, which I viewed as being better shared in a more relevant topic. I did not intend any whiny or hurtful tones. Personally, you did not share your opinion on certain characters in a very adult tone either.
People keep saying that jason's chapter with nico doesn't add anything to the story. Goddamn.., it's just character development, guys. Half the stuff in this book is there for the sole purpose of developing characters. Why aren't you complaining about Frank beating all those monsters and getting his godly makeover? What did that add to the story? Ooooor what about Leo and calypso? What did that add to the story? This series is full of side stories that show is a little something about the characters personality. If they didn't then these characters would be boring. If it's about homosexuality not having anything to do with the series, well what the hell does heterosexuality have to do with this series? It's a series about child demigods, last time I checked many kids identify as gay therefore a gay character is relevant. Again, IT'S JUST CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Why do people have to make it such a huge deal? >_> ...,either way, can't we all wait until blood of Olympus before decided what is or is not relevant to the story?
Woahh lets calm down people.Also, to Jennifer, I agree that I don't think Rick is telling kids to be gay, but to be tolerant. I don't get how people would have jumped to the conclusion that because there's one gay character, Rick is saying that everyone should be gay. But I don't think that it's gonna be turned into a love triangle thing. Percabeth are like 100% in love.
Kevin wrote: "It is political, i didn't say it was political but the whole "gayness and acceptance" is politically motivated, they want it to be legalized, they want same rights as straight couple marriages, they want to be able to legally adopt, they want etc etc etc..."
Oh and Kevin, who I was replying to the political thing wasn't you, I think it was Cassondra. I know gay rights and such is a political issue, but for people to dismiss it simply as just that is oversimplifying the whole thing. I don't get it. Why can't he show compassion to the movement or a nod to the movement, without people being like "oh hes only doing this only for political stuff", although there is probably a multitude of other reasons for doing it??? Like, you know, compassion? Just sayin. It is a political issue, but it is not only a political issue. It is, like I said, more universal than that and it affects people on more than one level-- lgbt people care more about just marriage legalization, and such. They care about being tolerated.
For the goth things, my main problem with that statement is that I highly doubt that anybody will jump to the conclusions that all goths are gay. Not even the goths themselves. I doubt people will take goth characteristics and attribute to them being gay, because first of all, there is, sadly, a stereotype already placed on gay men, and it's not goth. Also, Apollo and Favonius are bisexual, and they're not goth.
Kevin wrote: "Explaining gay to kids without sexuality would be tricky, if you say he just likes boys, the boy who this was explained to(who likes his friends very much as friends) would go and say he is gay because he has guy friends who he likes..."
As for explaining sexuality to kids, well, its not true that kids have no sexuality. They don't want to have wild, hot sex, but they do get crushes. My first crush was in 2nd grade, and I could differentiate my crush between my friendships with my other friends. Obviously, it wasn't serious, but that doesn't mean I felt nothing! Maybe that's how you would explain a crush to a kid "that you get excited to see someone", but personally, that's not how I would.
Also, see message 48 by Kcatty.
Also, can we not discriminate against age? Okay, whether you're in your 20s or 50s or in your teens or whatever, don't bash someone else's opinion just because they are young. Seriously. Stop. Even if you assume that they don't know anything because of their age, or if they're "immature", that doesn't mean they have nothing important to offer, unless they're not here for the discussion or are trolling, etc. K thanks
Cherie wrote: "People keep saying that jason's chapter with nico doesn't add anything to the story. Goddamn.., it's just character development, guys. Half the stuff in this book is there for the sole purpose of d..."THANK YOU. That's what made it such a good book for me, the character development.
You just hit the nail on the head every time cecerose :b you're probably my favorite commenter here
Hehe thanks :D Nico's always been one of my favorite characters in this series, so I guess I'm kinda passionate about this topic LOL
I agree :b the character development is by far the best part of the books, It's pretty much the reason why these books always get 5 stars from me haha... I'm glad that we finally got to see that there is much more to nico. :)
Dria, I was just stating my opinion... If it came out hateful, then I'm sorry but it wasn't meant to be hateful. Again, I was just stating my opinion. And I have to agree with Kevin. Rick used Jason because Jason was kind of the "leader" because Percy was gone. It would look good if Jason accepted Nico because he's the leader. Btw, if it looks like I'm hating on homosexuality, I'm not. I full on support it. I'm just stating my opinion about Jason's reaction towards Nico. Also Dria, this thread has brought on so many off topic ideas and opinions and you're going to tell me that I should talk about Piper somewhere else even though she is a CHARACTER in the book? No, I'm not going to do that. If I feel like talking about Piper, then I will. You're not the owner of this thread so I think you have no right to be telling me to talk about Piper somewhere else.
I did not tell. I requested. Thank you very much.
I don't think Rick made Nico gay just because he wanted to have people argue about it. If you remember, in the 40s, they didn't tolerate people like this SO I CAN SEE why he's always been like this: quiet, gloomy, lonely. BESIDES you said you didn't see this happening. DUH!!!!! most people don't expect a gay character even if they support it and saying that just adds to the fact that people didn't expect something so direct like this. maybe a mental illness but he's 14 not 60 here -_-
that probably didn't make SENSE BUT I'm in a rush
To be 100% honest, I half expected it b/c that's how I acted when I first realized that I was gay. ( I now am comfortable with it) my girlfriend and I are drawn even more to the books than we were though, before nico came out. Nico was also ALWAYS my favorite charecter. he's cool
I think this thread has gone on so long that people are twisting what others say just to keep it going. Sometimes characters who are certainly important to the story, like Nico and Jason, will end up developing in ways that some readers find unimportant at the time. This view may not last through all books, but in the moment it may seem pointless. That doesn't mean the character isn't necessary, just information about them might APPEAR useless in frame of existing books. Character development is at the core of a great story. I took a creative writing workshop course last semester and we were told, "The plot comes from the characters. Without their development, good forward movement is impossible". This is something RR is amazing at. In this case, I do think it felt a bit more forced...but I also think the same about Frank's silly makeover after the bridge battle and a few moments with Jason - this thread isn't about Frank or anyone else, though. However, just because character development is important...doesn't mean everyone will like or dislike how it unfolds.
I'm taking the perspective that Riordan must have something planned that will have required giving us this information about Nico. As any good author, he doesn't normally provide info that doesn't play out somehow. Even Frank's transformation may be important later, I don't know. In the context of THIS book, however, the "outing" of Nico didn't take away or add for me. It's just there and I'll store it away until it matters. I don't care about Nico so that's probably why.
For those who have an attachment to the character...I get it. I'm about to read a book in which one of my favorite characters...actually my favorite...could very well die. If that happens...I shall have to refrain from burning the book, LOL. There is a lot of character development with this guy, but I'm just determined the authors don't understand their own character, HA! See, I have characters I connect with just as much. I just don't have that attachment to Nico.
Overall, I think a lot is going to depend on this last book. If something does happen, which I really think it will, that makes it clear why RR decided to reveal this about Nico...then, well, there you go. Until then...I'm sorry...but it's just information that's getting filed somewhere in my mind until it's needed. It has no influence over my feelings for the character either way. And, in the context of THIS book...it's just there, nothing more. I'm just focused on the stuff I care about.
In the end I think we'll find that this information was necessary. It's just not Riordan's style to include info that is completely useless throughout the entire series. Even Percy's "blue food" thing played a role in the first series.
It was interesting to see what others thought about this though. As soon as I read it I knew there would be some thread somewhere blowing up over it. On both sides of the argument I think a lot of you make sense. Others...well...are a bit over dramatic, I think.
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